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PvP'ers did not ask for Proc Set crit nerf - what do PvE'ers suggest?
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Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭Grothdar was used to solo vet fungal grotto. That might have something to do with this change.
Wear grothdar, pop the destro ultimate just as you allow yourself to be chained down, the combined aoe will free you.Xbox NA0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grothdar was used to solo vet fungal grotto. That might have something to do with this change.
Wear grothdar, pop the destro ultimate just as you allow yourself to be chained down, the combined aoe will free you.
So whenever ZOS wants to nerf PvE, they stage it in concert with PvP so as to deflect the rage from PvE'ers on to PvP'ers who never wanted that particular nerf in the first place.
Clever.3 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hasn't that always been the case?Even when they nerfed crit surge they even stated why they did and because sorcs where healing to much in VMA,PVE'ers still blamed pvp players.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Grothdar was used to solo vet fungal grotto. That might have something to do with this change.
Wear grothdar, pop the destro ultimate just as you allow yourself to be chained down, the combined aoe will free you.
So whenever ZOS wants to nerf PvE, they stage it in concert with PvP so as to deflect the rage from PvE'ers on to PvP'ers who never wanted that particular nerf in the first place.
Clever.1 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Adjusting the battle spirit buff/debuff;
Apply battle spirit reductions to crit chance, crit chance modifier, crit damage, crit heal, crit heal modifier, crit heal chance to whatever value internal and PTS testing dictate.
Apply a separate battle spirit debuff to all proc sets reducing damage and proc chance by whatever values testing determines.
Individually tuning the monster helms and shoulders for over preforming sets in PVE and PVP.
Leave crit alone, this is a huge change crit is a massive part of the game in PVE and PVP simply saying it doesn't apply to seventy are so sets to make sure 10 to 15 sets don't over preform on the surface sure resonates like a terrible idea but what do I know I don't work there and don't design games for a living.0 -
RoyJade✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »I think the core problem isn't the proc set but the "burst" meta. Proc sets need balancing in pve, but no nerf, at least not that much. The best ones does pretty much the same damage as classic skills, and that's seem fine to me. The problem is that our damage are more or less equal to our life pool, so burst damage are far better than anything else. And of course, these procs artificially add some free hits who further boost our burst.
The best solution in my opinion should be to remove this burst meta, damage and healing altogether. Two problem, though : the high difficulty to do it properly (balance is hard, we all know that) and the high amount of work ZOS will need for that.
The fight I'ld love to see are fight where we need 5-6 seconds to kill a dps, 8-10 a heal, and more for a pure tank who can't do any damage, and where a proper cycle and dots are useful. No more instant-heal, no more instant-kill. I have some ideas to do that, but none are complete solutions for now.
Not just damage or heal, problem is nothing ever has any consequences. You just wasted your ulti into block? No problem, you will have it back in no time. You just held block for 5sec and only blocked enemy light attacks? No problem, hold it few minutes more. You just got ganked, but survived with 10% hp? No problem, instantly have it full again. Someone just wasted half theirs resources to combo you, but you broke free from cc and dodged everything (costing you half the resoures as well)? No problem, you both are full again. You bursted enemy shield, leaving their real HP vulnerable to dmg? They recasted it. You stunned the enemy so you can finally deal your damage? No problem, either their instantly broke free or you managed only to pop their shield before they come back. You casted DoT on them? No problem, they either didn't even notice or purged it instantly.
There is no middle ground for anything, if its not some prolonged duel of players with similiar build, nothing that isnt lethal burst attack really matters.
I am glad people are finally realizing its the infinite resource meta (and burst meta) that are really what is wrong with PvP. They are two sides of the same coin. You need burst to kill people with infinite resources and you need near infinite resources to heal/shield back up quickly after being burst down.
PvP used to be completely different. Regen was softcapped at 1300. You really had to work on sustain. Fights lasted longer and the meta was resource management not stack mitigation, damage, regen and burst. Tanky builds weren't tanky because they were at the armor cap, anyone could get to the armor cap, tanky builds were tanky because they could outsustain.
also everyone is forgetting that the Champion system makes Proc Sets 25% more powerful. The champion system gives max CP characters 3k more of each resource, and the champion system gives you enough sustain to run a really greedy damage stacking build that has no gear based sustain.
CP and no limits on attributes and resources is the real cause of all of these nerfs.
Agreed, the infinite resource meta is also one of the biggest part of the meta, if not the core one (well, proc set are one of the few problem who aren't specifically tied to the infinite resource).
I really think softcaps need to be re-added or even tweaked (a diminishing return system like cp point until you reach the hardcap, for example). There is a lot of other changes who can be good, but I don't have the knowledge for a good english translation of these.0 -
Bandit1215✭✭✭"This (proposed) change is very very far from what PvP'ers wanted, we don't want to hurt PvE with PvP balances..."
Who said that procc sets are balanced in PvE?
The mobs can't complain that they die to proceed sets, that's the difference...CP 561- vSO HM - Completed
- vAA - Completed
- vHRC - Completed
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Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep the upcoming change.
Annihilate Prosperous armor trait.
Introduce Citadel armor trait.
"Increase all numeric values of an active full set bonus by 1/2/3/4/5% per piece of gear equipped. This trait effect has a cooldown of 5 seconds after defeating an enemy player and 2 seconds for all other enemies."
That way you have to gear specifically to do crit-like damage with set pieces, there's enough of a delay that you can do proc damage but not steamroller on a conveyor belt levels of damage, and it doesn't affect PVE DPS that much.signing off0 -
Sinthrax✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »DschiPeunt wrote: »SJD_Phoenix wrote: »"This (proposed) change is very very far from what PvP'ers wanted, we don't want to hurt PvE with PvP balances..."
Who said that procc sets are balanced in PvE?
The issue are the sets over performing not under performing.
In pve why would you complain about an over performing set? Do you pride yourself over terrible dps?
I just looked up a single target fight (manticora) of mine, where I used Grothdarr. The set did 3407 DPS, which was 7.19% of the total DPS. How would anyone consider this as "over performing"?
Call me crazy PVPer, but how is 2piece of AOE proc armor doing 3.4k DPS to single target boss not over performing. I get it, there some underlying issues and this "fix" just makes everything worse not just the good sets, but I dont get why 2pieces of armor taking care 7% of your DPS (possible even more for other people) isnt over performing in your book.
Maybe because all popular monster proc sets are actually over performing?
Good 5 piece bonis like burning spellweave or moondancer add arround 6% dps. So if the monster set 2 piece bonus gets worse people will just run a combination of two five piece sets that require only 5 pice on one bar (e.g. a moondacer or BSW) to proc the bonus. At the moment monster sets are worth it, but after this nerf they will likely fall behind a second 5 piece bonus.
This is what will happen. After the patch no one will run monsters sets. 2 five peice will be better in most cases..except maybe Molag. I have a better idea. Just take out monsters helms so I dont have to carry them back to town to decon. Thanks.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »DschiPeunt wrote: »SJD_Phoenix wrote: »"This (proposed) change is very very far from what PvP'ers wanted, we don't want to hurt PvE with PvP balances..."
Who said that procc sets are balanced in PvE?
The issue are the sets over performing not under performing.
In pve why would you complain about an over performing set? Do you pride yourself over terrible dps?
I just looked up a single target fight (manticora) of mine, where I used Grothdarr. The set did 3407 DPS, which was 7.19% of the total DPS. How would anyone consider this as "over performing"?
Call me crazy PVPer, but how is 2piece of AOE proc armor doing 3.4k DPS to single target boss not over performing. I get it, there some underlying issues and this "fix" just makes everything worse not just the good sets, but I dont get why 2pieces of armor taking care 7% of your DPS (possible even more for other people) isnt over performing in your book.
Maybe because all popular monster proc sets are actually over performing?
Good 5 piece bonis like burning spellweave or moondancer add arround 6% dps. So if the monster set 2 piece bonus gets worse people will just run a combination of two five piece sets that require only 5 pice on one bar (e.g. a moondacer or BSW) to proc the bonus. At the moment monster sets are worth it, but after this nerf they will likely fall behind a second 5 piece bonus.
This is what will happen. After the patch no one will run monsters sets. 2 five peice will be better in most cases..except maybe Molag. I have a better idea. Just take out monsters helms so I dont have to carry them back to town to decon. Thanks.
Or people will still use them for the aoe? I doubt the 5th piece of those sets add's massive aoe dmg?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭who really said proc sets where balanced for pve how is a 30k skoria proc balance in pve players do more dmg then they should but he said that wsnt all they where doing so maybe wiat for pts and then say stuff
but not all sets are skoria and velEdited by lucky_Sage on December 30, 2016 6:22AMDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
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