Salene last boss is tough and with scroll almost impossible for low level CP,

I would never waste time, i did many times but low cp player end up with time waste..

Humatiel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question. This content was geared for each dps to be doing 10-15 and a well geared and knowledgeable player can easily push 30k+ unbuffed, its entirely possible that the "clean run" your experiencing was entirely because of the other dps.

Now there is no reason not to be civil of course, but when pugging social isn't the first consideration. It's entirely possible that the other dps (who I suspect was doing the vast majority of the dps) should have left, but by him leaving you would have been completely unable to continue due to dps checks. Just a matter of priorities I suppose, do you prefer to finish the pledge in a timely manner or do you accept the lower cp and announce its a "completion" run.

***, nearly every Vet dungeon is doable without any DPS checks bar from few DLC dungeons.
Most vet dungeons are soloable so DPS and DPS race is entirely a false concept, just another reason to measure e-peens, unless you do speedruns for achievements, but then you shouldn't be in the groupfinder in the first place (and your own fault for being there if you do).

It all boils down to another form of elitism and nothing else, it has nothing to do with DPS checks or DPS race, they are veteran 4-man's not vMoL for crying out loud, they are the easiest form of veteran dungeoning designed for the lowest common denominator and doable by anybody, even (yes) LOW cp's if they have half a brain attached to them.

How do I know? Because i've:
A: Soloed most dungeons in veteran mode.
B: Ran veteran dungeons when my characters were low on CP (VR) (believe it or not, i was once low too!)
C: Ran and still frequently run veteran dungeons with low CP players:

It all boils down to individual skill of players. In OP's case it easily could've been the low CP player was actually doing much better than the player doing the kicking, you don't know. A battlescaled lowbie with good on-level gear with good playing skills is on par with someone max with maybe a few stats lower here and there, but not by a lot.

CP in this case truly is no indicator of anything, not in 4-mans, not by a long shot. If a group fails because there is a low CP player in the group, it's not the fault of the low CP player... it's the fault of the other 3 players because most dungeons are literally a cakewalk..

Jeremy wrote: »

Joined a Selene's Web today. Had a low CP player one of the other players kept trying to vote kick them. I lost count how many times - but it was literally spammed the entire dungeon.

We were making fine progress. No deaths - was killing every boss easily. There was absolutely no legitimate reason to kick anyone. Then we get to the last boss - and the other DPS (the maxed CP one and I'm assuming the one who kept initiating the vote kick) refused to participate in the fight. He just stood there - in the corner - doing nothing. I guess because he was pissed I would not vote along with him - and instead of winning the fight (which we could have easily done if he had simply fought) he stood there in the corner doing nothing. Then he conspired with the tank to keep resetting the boss. Eventually the low CP guy got fed up and just left on his own accord. This nonsense needs to end. And it needs to end now.

Either CP needs to be made anonymous on this game - meaning other players cannot see it - or they need to just add a CP requirement to do vet dungeons. Because I am getting very fed up with dealing with all of this nonsense over players who have low amounts of CP - and then the players who are using it as an excuse to go all elitist on them. This crap has reached the breaking point and some action needs to be taken.

if next dungeon the guy says "no dk they suck" or "no pet sorc they suck" and pulls the same stunt, you gonna be here asking for class masking and invisible pets??

basically the takeaway from your experience is jerks will be jerks and some will wait their time to screw you if you dont just walk away and adopt a "no jerks, they suck" kick/walk policy of your own.

hey look no amount of zos effort or hidden stats or anything else can stop that guy from being a total jerk.

do you really think that they would have been peaches and cream if they couldnt see cp?

Cp is at least somewhat a meaningful stat. it describes how long someone has been playing, the hours in so to speak. it doesnt say they are equipped for the dungeon or the role or know either well.

but really it says more than class about "how well you can do"?

Strange, I have to wipe several times and be with people who do not listen to suggestions so we don't wipe again before I give up on a group. Reason, almost every group I have been in has prevailed eventually if we keep trying. On the few that did not, at least we learned something, I know I did.

All I can say is, join a guild and these problems don't occur, or occur very often.

As for CP being Anonymous, sure, why not. Showing it has more Cons that Pros, and it is not a measure of Ability or Determination either.

Remember, Tom Brady was a 6th Round Draft Pick, done so with an extra Pick given to the Patriots so in essence a throw away. Stats don't mean crap, what you can do does.

Nestor wrote: »

Strange, I have to wipe several times and be with people who do not listen to suggestions so we don't wipe again before I give up on a group. Reason, almost every group I have been in has prevailed eventually if we keep trying. On the few that did not, at least we learned something, I know I did.

All I can say is, join a guild and these problems don't occur, or occur very often.

As for CP being Anonymous, sure, why not. Showing it has more Cons that Pros, and it is not a measure of Ability or Determination either.

Remember, Tom Brady was a 6th Round Draft Pick, done so with an extra Pick given to the Patriots so in essence a throw away. Stats don't mean crap, what you can do does.

That's the way I am too. I like to give the group a chance before I assume the worst based on CP values. Sadly that is not how a lot of other players out there approach it.

Also - I should add that this player was sending whispers to the low CP character saying "die noob".

timidobserver wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

CP shouldn't matter for something like Selene's Web, but I don't agree with anonymous CP. The general population is already being punished enough with the 15 minute timer and being unable to manage groups. A few bad Apples don't warrant punishing the entire community.

Well then they need to put a 160 cap or something on Veteran Dungeons - because there is just no excuse for the kind of crap low CP players have to go through on this game when they sign up to do vet dungeons.

And it's not just a few bad apples. It's a widespread practice that happens almost every time I see a low CP player inside a dungeon. And I run a lot of dungeons.

Doesn't matter to me. I have never vote kicked anyone from a group that wasn't afk. I shouldn't have to deal with 15 minute timer or the removal of cp visibility. I'd be fine with them only allowing inactive players to be vote kicked or some other approach that doesn't inconvenience everyone.

How about this then - we make it optional? You can choose whether or not to have your CP visible to other players. That way you aren't forced into anything - but other players who don't want to be pre-judged due to their CP levels can avoid being done so.

Why do we have CP visible anyway? Who asked for this? Did ZOS make any statement about this?

nvyr wrote: »

I think once the low CP left on his/her own, I would have left myself to let the jerk have to wait for 2 replacements.

Maybe I should have. But I had cleared all of the bosses up to the end and already let myself be significantly annoyed by him. So leaving at that point would have just enabled him further in my mind.

If he had tried this crap at the beginning of the dungeon I would have left trust me. I had no idea he was going to sabotage the run at the very end. Usually they just leave when they don't get their way.

timidobserver wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

CP shouldn't matter for something like Selene's Web, but I don't agree with anonymous CP. The general population is already being punished enough with the 15 minute timer and being unable to manage groups. A few bad Apples don't warrant punishing the entire community.

Well then they need to put a 160 cap or something on Veteran Dungeons - because there is just no excuse for the kind of crap low CP players have to go through on this game when they sign up to do vet dungeons.

And it's not just a few bad apples. It's a widespread practice that happens almost every time I see a low CP player inside a dungeon. And I run a lot of dungeons.

Doesn't matter to me. I have never vote kicked anyone from a group that wasn't afk. I shouldn't have to deal with 15 minute timer or the removal of cp visibility. I'd be fine with them only allowing inactive players to be vote kicked or some other approach that doesn't inconvenience everyone.

How about this then - we make it optional? You can choose whether or not to have your CP visible to other players. That way you aren't forced into anything - but other players who don't want to be pre-judged due to their CP levels can avoid being done so.

Obviously people with hidden cp will be instakicked.

Sadly you might be right about that. But that just proves my point - and why it needs to be made invisible in the first place. Because too many players use it as an excuse to treat others like garbage.

Ankael07 wrote: »

Why do we have CP visible anyway? Who asked for this? Did ZOS make any statement about this?

At this point - I think having it visible creates more problems than it solves.

If someone is so interested in another player's CP - they can always just ask. Then that player can choose whether or not they want to answer.

QUEZ420 wrote: »

Either b qualified for the content or keep it moving.

What makes you "qualified" or not? It damn sure isn't cp. I've seen great low cp players and terrible high cp players.

No CP! Also, let's not display levels too! My lvl 19 is abused!

And no classes! My DK healer can heal too!

No names either!

Egonieser wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question. This content was geared for each dps to be doing 10-15 and a well geared and knowledgeable player can easily push 30k+ unbuffed, its entirely possible that the "clean run" your experiencing was entirely because of the other dps.

Now there is no reason not to be civil of course, but when pugging social isn't the first consideration. It's entirely possible that the other dps (who I suspect was doing the vast majority of the dps) should have left, but by him leaving you would have been completely unable to continue due to dps checks. Just a matter of priorities I suppose, do you prefer to finish the pledge in a timely manner or do you accept the lower cp and announce its a "completion" run.

***, nearly every Vet dungeon is doable without any DPS checks bar from few DLC dungeons.
Most vet dungeons are soloable so DPS and DPS race is entirely a false concept, just another reason to measure e-peens, unless you do speedruns for achievements, but then you shouldn't be in the groupfinder in the first place (and your own fault for being there if you do).

It all boils down to another form of elitism and nothing else, it has nothing to do with DPS checks or DPS race, they are veteran 4-man's not vMoL for crying out loud, they are the easiest form of veteran dungeonining designed for the lowest common denominator and doable by anybody, even (yes) LOW cp's if they have half a brain attached to them.

How do I know? Because i've:
A: Soloed most dungeons in veteran mode.
B: Ran veteran dungeons when my characters were low on CP (VR) (believe it or not, i was once low too!)
C: Ran and still frequently run veteran dungeons with low CP players:

It all boils down to individual skill of players. In OP's case it easily could've been the low CP player was actually doing much better than the player doing the kicking, you don't know. A battlescaled lowbie with good on-level gear with good playing skills is on par with someone max with maybe a few stats lower here and there, but not by a lot.

CP in this case truly is no indicator of anything, not in 4-mans, not by a long shot. If a group fails because there is a low CP player in the group, it's not the fault of the low CP player... it's the fault of the other 3 players because most dungeons are literally a cakewalk..

Soloable? May be you can after dying many times..

Not low level cp can solo and one Dungeon he is talking Salene, its last boss is almost impossible to solo!

I had someone try to pull this stunt on me a few days ago. He gave up and finally joined the fight when it became apparent that we didn't need him anyway. Seems our DPS wasn't that low after all.

Here's the thing about official CP requirements to do vet dungeons. Whatever they are, elitist jerks will still try to votekick you right off the bat if you are not maxed out or close to it. Even if you're in one of the easier dungeons.

These people are looking for speed runs. I don't mean speed runs like getting the achievements that are available right now. That's way too slow.

No, what they want is for everyone to just fit together flawlessly and be putting out so much overwhelming damage that all mechanics can be completely ignored. (Typically these are the same people that *** and moan all day about everything being too easy.) What they fail to realize is that PUG does not mean "well oiled machine". You have to be a little versatile. Even pro sports teams generally don't just click together the first time they meet. But no matter how many times they are presented with that reality, they will still continue to expect and demand that three other completely random people play exactly the way the elitist wants them to.