CP bigotry on this game is out of control. Something needs to be done.

Jeremy

Joined a Selene's Web today. Had a low CP player one of the other players kept trying to vote kick them. I lost count how many times - but it was literally spammed the entire dungeon.

We were making fine progress. No deaths - was killing every boss easily. There was absolutely no legitimate reason to kick anyone. Then we get to the last boss - and the other DPS (the maxed CP one and I'm assuming the one who kept initiating the vote kick) refused to participate in the fight. He just stood there - in the corner - doing nothing. I guess because he was pissed I would not vote along with him - and instead of winning the fight (which we could have easily done if he had simply fought) he stood there in the corner doing nothing. Then he conspired with the tank to keep resetting the boss. Eventually the low CP guy got fed up and just left on his own accord. This nonsense needs to end. And it needs to end now.

Either CP needs to be made anonymous on this game - meaning other players cannot see it - or they need to just add a CP requirement to do vet dungeons. Because I am getting very fed up with dealing with all of this nonsense over players who have low amounts of CP - and then the players who are using it as an excuse to go all elitist on them. This crap has reached the breaking point and some action needs to be taken.

Hot_spur

The ironic part is that you could have beaten the end boss if the a**hole would have done his part.

That kind of behavior is terrible.

GreatGildersleeve

^ this ^

So very much this.

I'm in the high 400's CP and been bad mouthed on trial runs for not being maxed. If someone is capable of handling the content, who cares how much CP they have?

newtinmpls

I'm all for CP being anon

Darkestnght

Yeah some peoples kids...you have to wonder what their parents are like.

Merlin13KAGL

Clearly you had an ass in your group, but I feel a few details are missing?

Were you running Vet or Norm? How low is low CP? Because, you have to remember that the content is scaled to CP160, as it always has been.

A CP120 may not have an issue, if they're good at their character. A CP20 is going to have a hard time, especially with a Vet version of Selene's Web.

To vote continuously is unnecessary, unless there was a problem. If there was a problem, or it was anticipated to be a problem, it was know long before the end boss.

Sounds like there needed to be a discussion within the group as to what someone felt the issue was and why - if it's reasonable, they should be able to back it up. It's not like it's a unknown when someone gets kicked, so be out with it.

But pouting in the corner during end fight, etc, is unacceptable. Unfortunately, it sounds like your best bet, in this case, was for both of you to find an alternate group.

CP's don't need to be invisible. CP's do not reflect ability or lack thereof (by themselves). Hidden CP's won't prevent an experienced group from knowing, realistically, whether or not it's going to happen, well before the end boss ever rolls around.

Doesn't take a number on your screen to know this.

DMuehlhausen

Jeremy wrote: »

Joined a Selene's Web today. Had a low CP player one of the other players kept trying to vote kick them. I lost count how many times - but it was literally spammed the entire dungeon.

We were making fine progress. No deaths - was killing every boss easily. There was absolutely no legitimate reason to kick anyone. Then we get to the last boss - and the other DPS (the maxed CP one and I'm assuming the one who kept initiating the vote kick) refused to participate in the fight. He just stood there - in the corner - doing nothing. I guess because he was pissed I would not vote along with him - and instead of winning the fight (which we could have easily done if he had simply fought) he stood there in the corner doing nothing. Then he conspired with the tank to keep resetting the boss. Eventually the low CP guy got fed up and just left on his own accord. This nonsense needs to end. And it needs to end now.

Either CP needs to be made anonymous on this game - meaning other players cannot see it - or they need to just add a CP requirement to do vet dungeons. Because I am getting very fed up with dealing with all of this nonsense over players who have low amounts of CP - and then the players who are using it as an excuse to go all elitist on them. This crap has reached the breaking point and some action needs to be taken.

That's when you try to vote kick him for being a *** which is the proper use of the system

idk

@Jeremy

Why didn't the group vote kick the jerk? He was obviously the problem and should not have been rewarded.

Narrow minded, short sighted thinking like his is bad for the game which is merely demonstrated by OPs thread.

I'm saying this as a max CP player who who has cleared all the vet trials. I'm one who does random vet dungeon queues for the heck of it and often end up in troops where one or more are getting their first clear if that dungeon. I have no issue with explaining the fights and helping players understand how to deal with the mechanics of the fights even though when I run with guildies most of the mechanics are bypassed.

code65536

At that point, I would've vote-kicked the arse.

Fudly_budly

CP's are such an invalid measure! So were VR's. I'm CP 430 and have never run a dungeon. The never-ending forum posts like this one have convinced me to never try a dungeon. Petulant brats like that might consider finding an end content guild and avoid pugs / group-finder altogether.

Jeremy

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Clearly you had an ass in your group, but I feel a few details are missing?

Were you running Vet or Norm? How low is low CP? Because, you have to remember that the content is scaled to CP160, as it always has been.

A CP120 may not have an issue, if they're good at their character. A CP20 is going to have a hard time, especially with a Vet version of Selene's Web.

To vote continuously is unnecessary, unless there was a problem. If there was a problem, or it was anticipated to be a problem, it was know long before the end boss.

Sounds like there needed to be a discussion within the group as to what someone felt the issue was and why - if it's reasonable, they should be able to back it up. It's not like it's a unknown when someone gets kicked, so be out with it.

But pouting in the corner during end fight, etc, is unacceptable. Unfortunately, it sounds like your best bet, in this case, was for both of you to find an alternate group.

CP's don't need to be invisible. CP's do not reflect ability or lack thereof (by themselves). Hidden CP's won't prevent an experienced group from knowing, realistically, whether or not it's going to happen, well before the end boss ever rolls around.

Doesn't take a number on your screen to know this.

It was vet. He was actually a very good player - and even with the other DPS standing in the corner sulking so as to try and make his or her lame point we did quite well on the boss considering. There is no doubt in my mind had the other DPS contributed we would have been able to win. But even if we could not win - this player should have still at least gave it an honest attempt first instead of being a ______.

Also I did attempt to have a discussion. I asked the DPS to please help fight and give the low CP guy a fair shot first before assuming he would cause us to lose. A reasonable request IMHO - but apparently giving someone a chance instead of immediately kicking them based on their CP was just too much to ask. How dare I want to give someone a fair chance.

I disagree with you that CP doesn't need to be invisible. I believe this idiocy has reached to the point that it does. I forget exactly what his CP was - but it was under 100. The player had even told me he had won the fight before - and I believe him or her. The player wasn't bad - at all.

runagate

Jeremy wrote: »

Joined a Selene's Web today. Had a low CP player one of the other players kept trying to vote kick them. I lost count how many times - but it was literally spammed the entire dungeon.

We were making fine progress. No deaths - was killing every boss easily. There was absolutely no legitimate reason to kick anyone. Then we get to the last boss - and the other DPS (the maxed CP one and I'm assuming the one who kept initiating the vote kick) refused to participate in the fight. He just stood there - in the corner - doing nothing. I guess because he was pissed I would not vote along with him - and instead of winning the fight (which we could have easily done if he had simply fought) he stood there in the corner doing nothing. Then he conspired with the tank to keep resetting the boss. Eventually the low CP guy got fed up and just left on his own accord. This nonsense needs to end. And it needs to end now.

Either CP needs to be made anonymous on this game - meaning other players cannot see it - or they need to just add a CP requirement to do vet dungeons. Because I am getting very fed up with dealing with all of this nonsense over players who have low amounts of CP - and then the players who are using it as an excuse to go all elitist on them. This crap has reached the breaking point and some action needs to be taken.

Nothing any of you did made any sense. If someone is voting to kick and spamming it you other three are equally crazy for staying in the group. This story makes no sense. Well, except the original a-hole. That part is certainly familiar.

Humatiel

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

BuddyAces

Fudly_budly wrote: »

CP's are such an invalid measure! So were VR's. I'm CP 430 and have never run a dungeon. The never-ending forum posts like this one have convinced me to never try a dungeon. Petulant brats like that might consider finding an end content guild and avoid pugs / group-finder altogether.

Honestly it's not that bad. I've never once seen a group get mad if someone is brand new to a dungeon. All you have to say before the dungeon starts is that you're new and you'd like the fights explained before the pull. EVERY single time I have seen someone say this, there is never a problem. It's when people don't say anything and you end up wiping on the boss then tempers can get a little heated. Most of the time if people have a problem with low levels they will leave the dungeon and take the 15 min C/D without saying a word. There's always going to be that one random arse hat that will do what the person in the OP said but they are nowhere near the norm. Seriously just ignore them.

DMuehlhausen

LOW CP LIVES MATTER!

Jeremy

runagate wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Joined a Selene's Web today. Had a low CP player one of the other players kept trying to vote kick them. I lost count how many times - but it was literally spammed the entire dungeon.

We were making fine progress. No deaths - was killing every boss easily. There was absolutely no legitimate reason to kick anyone. Then we get to the last boss - and the other DPS (the maxed CP one and I'm assuming the one who kept initiating the vote kick) refused to participate in the fight. He just stood there - in the corner - doing nothing. I guess because he was pissed I would not vote along with him - and instead of winning the fight (which we could have easily done if he had simply fought) he stood there in the corner doing nothing. Then he conspired with the tank to keep resetting the boss. Eventually the low CP guy got fed up and just left on his own accord. This nonsense needs to end. And it needs to end now.

Either CP needs to be made anonymous on this game - meaning other players cannot see it - or they need to just add a CP requirement to do vet dungeons. Because I am getting very fed up with dealing with all of this nonsense over players who have low amounts of CP - and then the players who are using it as an excuse to go all elitist on them. This crap has reached the breaking point and some action needs to be taken.

Nothing any of you did made any sense. If someone is voting to kick and spamming it you other three are equally crazy for staying in the group. This story makes no sense. Well, except the original a-hole. That part is certainly familiar.

I don't know why this makes no sense to you. I'm not about to leave a group that's going smoothly and that I waited in a queue to get in just because some a-hole is tossing vote kicks about. Eventually I just stopped voting no and let the timer run out.

The player obsessing over kicking someone because they have low CP are the ones who should leave the group. Not me.

Jeremy

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he/she was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

Humatiel

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question. This content was geared for each dps to be doing 10-15 and a well geared and knowledgeable player can easily push 30k+ unbuffed, its entirely possible that the "clean run" your experiencing was entirely because of the other dps.

Now there is no reason not to be civil of course, but when pugging social isn't the first consideration. It's entirely possible that the other dps (who I suspect was doing the vast majority of the dps) should have left, but by him leaving you would have been completely unable to continue due to dps checks. Just a matter of priorities I suppose, do you prefer to finish the pledge in a timely manner or do you accept the lower cp and announce its a "completion" run.

Jeremy

Humatiel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question. This content was geared for each dps to be doing 10-15 and a well geared and knowledgeable player can easily push 30k+ unbuffed, its entirely possible that the "clean run" your experiencing was entirely because of the other dps.

Now there is no reason not to be civil of course, but when pugging social isn't the first consideration. It's entirely possible that the other dps (who I suspect was doing the vast majority of the dps) should have left, but by him leaving you would have been completely unable to continue due to dps checks. Just a matter of priorities I suppose, do you prefer to finish the pledge in a timely manner or do you accept the lower cp and announce its a "completion" run.

It did answer your question.

You asked me if the other DPS was trying to kick him because he or she was doing 90% of the damage. That was not the case - as this other DPS was spamming to kick this player before any DPS had even been done in the first place. It was based solely on his CP levels.

And considering how well we did on Selene with the other DPS literally doing nothing but standing in the corner I'd say his damage was just fine. If anyone was causing us not to be able to complete this pledge in a timely manner it was the guy who was going afk in the corner.

ValkynSketha

I would just vote to kick this ******************************* player, or better leave, take the low cp player and make a new group with him/her.

Fudly_budly

BuddyAces wrote: »

Fudly_budly wrote: »

CP's are such an invalid measure! So were VR's. I'm CP 430 and have never run a dungeon. The never-ending forum posts like this one have convinced me to never try a dungeon. Petulant brats like that might consider finding an end content guild and avoid pugs / group-finder altogether.

Honestly it's not that bad. I've never once seen a group get mad if someone is brand new to a dungeon. All you have to say before the dungeon starts is that you're new and you'd like the fights explained before the pull.

wow! Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it!
good adventures to you.

Jeremy

ValkynSketha wrote: »

I would just vote to kick this ******************************* player, or better leave, take the low cp player and make a new group with him/her.

I tried to do this - but for some reason the tank would not vote to kick him. I guess he was a low CP bigot as well.

I didn't want to leave because I had already completed most of the dungeon and didn't want to start over.

Humatiel

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question. This content was geared for each dps to be doing 10-15 and a well geared and knowledgeable player can easily push 30k+ unbuffed, its entirely possible that the "clean run" your experiencing was entirely because of the other dps.

Now there is no reason not to be civil of course, but when pugging social isn't the first consideration. It's entirely possible that the other dps (who I suspect was doing the vast majority of the dps) should have left, but by him leaving you would have been completely unable to continue due to dps checks. Just a matter of priorities I suppose, do you prefer to finish the pledge in a timely manner or do you accept the lower cp and announce its a "completion" run.

It did answer your question.

You asked me if the other DPS was trying to kick him because he or she was doing 90% of the damage. That was not the case - as this other DPS was spamming to kick this player before any DPS had even been done in the first place. It was based solely on his CP levels.

And considering how well we did on Selene with the other DPS literally doing nothing but standing in the corner I'd say his damage was just fine.

Being reactionary against CP doesnt mean that the low cp wasnt also doing low dps, it does sound like it is just a bigot though. I'm surprised you three didnt kick him.

QUEZ420

Either b qualified for the content or keep it moving.

Jeremy

QUEZ420 wrote: »

Either b qualified for the content or keep it moving.

He was qualified for the content.

Jeremy

Humatiel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the case, but is it possible that the dps that was spamming to kick the low cp was doing 90% of the dmg and just cba?

No because he was spamming to kick the player before we even fought anything.

that's fair, but that doesn't necessarily answer my question. This content was geared for each dps to be doing 10-15 and a well geared and knowledgeable player can easily push 30k+ unbuffed, its entirely possible that the "clean run" your experiencing was entirely because of the other dps.

Now there is no reason not to be civil of course, but when pugging social isn't the first consideration. It's entirely possible that the other dps (who I suspect was doing the vast majority of the dps) should have left, but by him leaving you would have been completely unable to continue due to dps checks. Just a matter of priorities I suppose, do you prefer to finish the pledge in a timely manner or do you accept the lower cp and announce its a "completion" run.

It did answer your question.

You asked me if the other DPS was trying to kick him because he or she was doing 90% of the damage. That was not the case - as this other DPS was spamming to kick this player before any DPS had even been done in the first place. It was based solely on his CP levels.

And considering how well we did on Selene with the other DPS literally doing nothing but standing in the corner I'd say his damage was just fine.

Being reactionary against CP doesnt mean that the low cp wasnt also doing low dps, it does sound like it is just a bigot though. I'm surprised you three didnt kick him.

His damage wasn't bad. I had a chance to see it when we fought Selene the first time without any assistance from the other DPS.

He wasn't a bad player.

Glaiceana

I don't understand this. I hear about it happening but have never seen it myself.
I play with people of all levels.
Usually I play with someone else, who is also above max cp, and we do random normals, and often we get lower level people with us, do we kick them? No, never, why would we? Even if I am the only "high cp" player in a normal dungeon, I wouldn't feel like I shouldn't be playing with them.

The fact that this guy refused to even play... I guess he doesn't know how to play the game or something. You can pretty much solo the majority of dungeons, and when I play with my friend, we can do all of them just on our own... if a lower level player comes with us, we don't mind at all

ThePonzzz

The group finder needs some tool where the lesser player (like myself) can get into a group and just chill out. I've still not done a handful of vet dungeons (or any of the new ones) because I can't get into a group with a bunch of elitists. The last time I tried vWGT, I was completely berated for not knowing every step of the bosses. Since I've never done it...kind of hard to know it.

Jeremy

Glaiceana wrote: »

I don't understand this. I hear about it happening but have never seen it myself.
I play with people of all levels.
Usually I play with someone else, who is also above max cp, and we do random normals, and often we get lower level people with us, do we kick them? No, never, why would we? Even if I am the only "high cp" player in a normal dungeon, I wouldn't feel like I shouldn't be playing with them.

The fact that this guy refused to even play... I guess he doesn't know how to play the game or something. You can pretty much solo the majority of dungeons, and when I play with my friend, we can do all of them just on our own... if a lower level player comes with us, we don't mind at all

Count yourself lucky then. I see this sort of thing happen almost every time I join a group that has a low level CP player - though usually the elitist player just leaves the group when I don't go along with their presumptive vote kick. This is the first time I can remember that I actually had one sabotage my group until he/she got their way.

It's possible the tank and the DPS were friends and were working together. I'm not sure.

Synroth

I do think a time limit should be put in place. Where you can't just kick people right away, and at least give the players a chance to prove themselves. The only issue with something like this would be if you clear any of the dungeons bosses, it might be hard to pick up another player with a partially cleared dungeon.

timidobserver

CP shouldn't matter for something like Selene's Web, but I don't agree with anonymous CP. The general population is already being punished enough with the 15 minute timer and being unable to manage groups. A few bad Apples don't warrant punishing the entire community.