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Way to go ZOS you ruined Proc sets for PvE
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ComboBreaker88✭✭✭✭✭
✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ComboBreaker88 wrote: »Yet in PvE they will be game changing.
...if proc set direct damage is "game changing" for you, you may want to use more than just one ability in fights.
This whole forum is so ripe with baseless exaggerations, it's unfathomable
Let me guess a Cp 300 ish player who has never completed a veteran trial?
I will use this which was posted by another commenter because it's well put: Most of the PVE dmg comes from critical hits and buffing them, reducing the ability to critical will reduce the proc sets dmg by 30-50% depending on the warhorn uptime and sets used.
Almost.
A cp 755 player that checks his damage recaps and realizes that kragh and red mountain contribute around 3k dps on a 30k dps parse. That means that after this change, I will lose a whopping 1k or 3% damage due to the change.
3% percent damage for your entire group..? Or is that solo? But either way that's not the point. They are nerfing it because it's OP in PvP. And this will not fix running 3 proc sets in PvP.Edited by ComboBreaker88 on December 27, 2016 5:16PM3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ComboBreaker88 wrote: »Yet in PvE they will be game changing.
...if proc set direct damage is "game changing" for you, you may want to use more than just one ability in fights.
This whole forum is so ripe with baseless exaggerations, it's unfathomable
Let me guess a Cp 300 ish player who has never completed a veteran trial?
I will use this which was posted by another commenter because it's well put: Most of the PVE dmg comes from critical hits and buffing them, reducing the ability to critical will reduce the proc sets dmg by 30-50% depending on the warhorn uptime and sets used.
Almost.
A cp 755 player that checks his damage recaps and realizes that kragh and red mountain contribute around 3k dps on a 30k dps parse. That means that after this change, I will lose a whopping 1k or 3% damage due to the change.
3% percent damage for your entire group..? Or is that solo? But either way that's not the point. They are nerfing it because it's OP in PvP. And this will not fix running 3 proc sets in PvP.
No, they are nerfing them in both PVP and PVE cause they are overperforming in both PVP and PVE. The fact that u are here saying that nerfing proc sets in PVE is game breaking shows how OP they are.8 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Guess I'll drop illambris and go back to 5-5-Kena, Julianos and Spinner.
5 BSW 5 Spinner1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.6 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Guess I'll drop illambris and go back to 5-5-Kena, Julianos and Spinner.
5 BSW 5 Spinner
What does bsw give? Oh I see...
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Flame Damage ability, you have a 20% chance to apply the burning status effect to the enemy and gain 600 Spell Damage for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 12 seconds.
Hmm...Edited by Bryanonymous on December 27, 2016 5:34PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think I am on the side of the Devs on this one. Competive trial runners are going to lose a few K DPS, no-question. 2k DPS on top of 40k+ is not game changing, especially considering we will prob get a CP bump as well. The sky is not falling yet. I want to see how it plays out.
Also, proc sets on a healer? LMAO.6 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ComboBreaker88 wrote: »Yet in PvE they will be game changing.
...if proc set direct damage is "game changing" for you, you may want to use more than just one ability in fights.
This whole forum is so ripe with baseless exaggerations, it's unfathomable
Let me guess a Cp 300 ish player who has never completed a veteran trial?
I will use this which was posted by another commenter because it's well put: Most of the PVE dmg comes from critical hits and buffing them, reducing the ability to critical will reduce the proc sets dmg by 30-50% depending on the warhorn uptime and sets used.
Almost.
A cp 755 player that checks his damage recaps and realizes that kragh and red mountain contribute around 3k dps on a 30k dps parse. That means that after this change, I will lose a whopping 1k or 3% damage due to the change.
3% percent damage for your entire group..? Or is that solo? But either way that's not the point. They are nerfing it because it's OP in PvP. And this will not fix running 3 proc sets in PvP.
You do realize that percentages are relative, yes? As such I expect that others in my group(s) will experience something in between what I have found and what Rich has posted (i.e. 7 to 8%).
And yes, I agree that this change is only a first step, as was indicated in Rich's post. I also agree that this will not solve the issues in PvP. But it is better than the current state.
The issue for PvP is burst. Any and all reduction in burst is a good change. This specific change DOES have an impact on PvE. I do not dispute this. What I criticize massively is the exaggeration that immediately bursts in the forums. Due to this type of reaction we get results like the massive overbuff of eye of the storm and later desparate need for nerfs.
How about waiting for the changes to come up on the PTS and testing them before complaining?4 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Until PTS gets updated and theres a full list of patch notes, this is just posturing and whining.2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We'll see.
Maybe they'll slightly ajust damage to compensate and that wouldn't be too bad either. I doubt the change will be more than 1-2 K and the meta may just go to insane penetration rather than crits crits crits. Either or.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Until PTS gets updated and theres a full list of patch notes, this is just posturing and whining.
^This.^1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »Argueably proccsets are overperforming in pve aswell (mandatory for every build).
I don´t have much issues with proccsets in pve unless they crit me for 10k dmg.
Yeah because we need to make veteran trial healing a bigger challenge.. this will change far more then they intend. What's the point of crit if sets don't crit anymore?
I'm sorry, what sets are your healers using in trials?
5 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)9 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?
...On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.
Test that in a vet trials group. Not just the sustain loss. But the dps loss as well.
^^this. Good trials teams use Aggresive war horn and other crit boosts. Let's run these same tests under standard trial conditions and measure the results.
Lets also run it on a actual trial build then as well, not one with 3 proc sets?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »The nerf is a good change
The nerf will not change anything in PvP. Which is why they made the change. It only impacts PvE. Everyone in cryodil is already running around in heavy armor full impen. A global 4 second cooldown would have solved the issue of multiple procs firing and being instant kills. Even without crit all 3 set procs is still op in PvP
And now my guess is you´re probably not very experienced in pvp.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
ComboBreaker88✭✭✭✭✭
✭ManwithBeard9 wrote: »Until PTS gets updated and theres a full list of patch notes, this is just posturing and whining.
Yeah what a joke that is. Here is part of the information of what we are doing because we encourage the spreading of rumors and misinformation.
Either way the negative effects this will have in PvP will be unnoticeable. Yet in PvE they will be game changing.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.
The issue was solving both a pve and pvp issue and proc sets was over performing in both aspects.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
ComboBreaker88✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.
Thank you. Apparently everyone else is missing the entire point.4 -
ComboBreaker88✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.
The issue was solving both a pve and pvp issue and proc sets was over performing in both aspects.
When a boss has 60 million health.. nothing is OP.10 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.
The issue was solving both a pve and pvp issue and proc sets was over performing in both aspects.
Anyone being honest can admit that this change is PvP driven. Proc sets are a major problem in PvP. No one complains about proc sets in PvE given that most of them are of no use in PvE.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)6 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Really there was noone complaning about proc sets being an issue in PVE, so please do this crit nerf only for PVP and NOT for PVE!!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
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Ghettokid✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get it how you think they ruin procsets. They still do decent damage. If you like them you can still use them. No need to always use best in slot gear.2 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Really there was noone complaning about proc sets being an issue in PVE, so please do this crit nerf only for PVP and NOT for PVE!!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
I guess the reason might be that mobs don't usually come to post their complaints on the forums.
It's a good change, for both PvP and PvE.Edited by Wollust on December 27, 2016 5:57PMSusano'o
Zerg Squad3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.
The issue was solving both a pve and pvp issue and proc sets was over performing in both aspects.
Anyone being honest can admit that this change is PvP driven. Proc sets are a major problem in PvP. No one complains about proc sets in PvE given that most of them are of no use in PvE.
Yet zos has a history of nerfing things that are absolutely mandatory (some might say op) for pve aswell.
I would not throw the chance of this also being an intended pve 2p set nerf out of the window. Grothdarr and ilambris are way overperforming.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
ManwithBeard9✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Really there was noone complaning about proc sets being an issue in PVE, so please do this crit nerf only for PVP and NOT for PVE!!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
I eagerly await your thorough and extensive testing, parses, and full damage tables to support or theory once PTS is up and running. You must be very confident to post this here and start your own thread with the exact comment.0 -
Astanphaeus✭✭✭✭✭Really there was noone complaning about proc sets being an issue in PVE, so please do this crit nerf only for PVP and NOT for PVE!!!!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror
I've complained that PvE is too easy, and I think nerfing proc sets is a perfectly reasonable way to start to address that.2 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭ComboBreaker88 wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?
...On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.
Test that in a vet trials group. Not just the sustain loss. But the dps loss as well.
^^this. Good trials teams use Aggresive war horn and other crit boosts. Let's run these same tests under standard trial conditions and measure the results.
Yeah!.... Oh wait that buff tracker in the top right hand corner of that pic has Aggressive Warhorn... smh
Lambert ran 3 proc sets, suffered an 7% loss, most will suffer between 1-3% loss just for Monster set. It's a slight nerf to overall output that is it. That isn't even taking into consideration the class changes that have not been released.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Guys wait for the patch notes, you can complete every piece of content without the crits on you illambris, skoria, selenes etc. VMoL was beaten before dps went through the roof so the 3k dps loss is not bad.
Being able to still do content isn't the issue. The issue is solving a PvP issue by nerfing PvE.
The issue was solving both a pve and pvp issue and proc sets was over performing in both aspects.
Anyone being honest can admit that this change is PvP driven. Proc sets are a major problem in PvP. No one complains about proc sets in PvE given that most of them are of no use in PvE.
Yet zos has a history of nerfing things that are absolutely mandatory (some might say op) for pve aswell.
I would not throw the chance of this also being an intended pve 2p set nerf out of the window. Grothdarr and ilambris are way overperforming.
100% of the complaints are coming from the PvP community. No PvE problems are solved. Something else will just become the new BIS.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
GrimMauKin✭✭✭✭I'm probably being dense (and I'm a fairly unskilled casual player) but I really don't see why Proc sets are such a big deal or seen to be so overpowered (or out of place in PVP). I've seen builds that have double the weapon damage I have and that 'bonus' applies to all weapon hits all of the time; I don't really see why a 10%-15% chance of doing a few thousand extra points of damage 'as and when the dice fall kindly' is much of a compensation. Simply massively out gunning an opponent could arguably be seen as just as much of a skills compensator as a proc set.
The other point is that nothing that's freely available to all (as Proc sets are) can every really be said to be unfair; if people choose not to use them that's fine (as is a build that doesn't focus on maximum weapon/spell damage); what seems unfair to me is the growing clamour to stop others using them or to nerf them to the point of uselessness (it kind of reminds me of one of the most ridiculous posts I remember reading on here from someone shouting that Nightblade stealth should be nerfed because they didn't want to waste a skills slot by having to carry Mage Light).
To my mind a wide range of proc sets and effects keep things vibrant and varied in a game that's rapidly becoming blinkered by a max. damage at all costs arms race (with 'essential' sets and combinations) and a 'proper' way of playing.
(I'll add at this point that none of my sets are proc sets but I'm quite happy for others to be using them with the obvious proviso that sensible balancing is applied).Edited by GrimMauKin on December 27, 2016 6:09PMI am one of The Great Mediocracy, those whose role in life is to provide the baseline by which The Few deem themselves Great.0
I'm happy for this!