Pve players, why don't you like PvP?

zakfrickb14_ESO · December 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

MissKiwiana wrote: »

I've not yet tried PVP in this game but did in WoW and reason I don't like it is my reaction is slow and it is also gang up style tactics that make it extremely unfair and wrong.

People need to cheat to be good at PVP ie: Bot

I've tried DPS and heals at PVP I last a little longer with a dps char but my healers were dead in mere secs.

Who loves dying ? and dying a bucket load to players who get their kicks out of beating up another player.

My experience with PVP is that's its bullying.

PVP for me does not = fun and good times but misery and loathing.

You get an over dramatic lol.

It's not bullying unless you are seriously talking about people hate messaging you or ... I guess ... relentlessly tea bagging you. Conversely every opponent is a walking sachel of alliance points. If I'm riding solo or with 23 others and I see you, I'm going to attack. It's nothing personal. You're just PVPing and in the way.

Also if there is a fight where there is a 561 and a level 14, I'm killing the lowbie first every time. It's just easier to deal with less opponents, so knocking off the easier one just makes sense. Furthermore if I'm in a Zerg battle it's easier to proc Vicious Death on a low CP player. A lot goes into it other than just, "I'm gonna ruin that guy's day! Muhuhaha!"

Anyway, it's really not alll that scary and just takes some practice. Don't take it so personally. 99% of people aren't trying to bully you, they just want more AP.

And you have summed up why no one likes to play PvP. The rich-get-richer, bigger guy always wins.

GarnetFire17 · December 2016

the fighting aspect of the game don't interest me that much. I don't like fighting games. I am an rpg fan that likes exploring and loot. solo style play.

DPShiro · December 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

That's a bold face lie most of the people who complain about VMA are pvers I haven't seen any threads on here by PVPERS complaining about VMA.No PVPer has every complained about PVE because its so easy its stupid only people who complain about VMA or any PVE content are PVe carebears.

Like I said majority of PVE expect for Vet MOl ,VMA VEt AA and Vet Sanctum everything else you can pretty much do sleeping.

Oh really? Have you missed all those threads/posts about "waaah waaaah why should I have to do VMA to get the weapons, I only PVP, sell them at golden already".

And lol, you already said PVE content is so ways you can do it while you sleep, and now you are changing it to exclude the actual hard content? Of course playing ways content is easy, but there is challenging content for a reason. But since you said that PVE content is sooooo easy, what's your score in vMoL HM? Should be at top because it's so easy you fall asleep right?

Also lol at you trying to insult by saying "carebears" - just goes to show the infantile mentality of the forum raging pvp player such as yourself.

Biro123 · December 2016

Grileenor wrote: »

Well, ESO has some of the best PvE Content ever made in any MMO. There are many many PvP games out there. Why would anyone choose the game with the best PvE only to talk about PvP. I can't believe, ESO has the best PvP around. So why anyone disliking PvE spends his time here and questions PvE is totally beyond me.

That's very subjective, really. Yes I enjoyed the main storylines while levelling up. The zones look great and are well designed, public dungeons and delves are great too - but they are all too easy! There has to be some challenge in a game.. Don't get me wrong, this isn't just ESO - its all newer games. I remember starting DAOC and fighting level 3 mobs being a challenge - you would finish with 1/2 health and low stam (was it stam back then? ) and need to rest before the next fight. Getting adds was just a whole new level. Here there is absolutely no risk of losing in a 1v3 fight against 'standard' mobs unless you fall asleep half way through.

In terms of PVP - ESO has some of the best in a AAA game that I've found in a long time. I'm not aware of any others that offer 3-faction siege warfare like the old DAOC. Others I've played have tried similar things (Warhammer Online, SWTOR) - and failed at it - mostly because of only 2 factions and one dominating... Also ESO - despite what many on this thread seem to claim has a much smaller gear-disparity for PVP than many other games - simply because its easy to buy/farm whatever CP160 non-dungeon set loot you want without having to arrange for groups etc - then you're ready to go. The difference between having the BiS trait vs non-BiS is really very small in most cases - with skill in PvP making a much greater impact.
Compared to other games I've played, where you have level 50 pvp zones - but so many 'gated levels' of gear above 50 with massive increases in power..

Nay ESO PVP is good. PVPers complain about it because, although it isn't perfect - its the best that most ppl have come across - and want it to improve, not worsen.

Zyrudin · December 2016

Biro123 wrote: »

I remember starting DAOC and fighting level 3 mobs being a challenge - you would finish with 1/2 health and low stam (was it stam back then? ) and need to rest before the next fight. Getting adds was just a whole new level. Here there is absolutely no risk of losing in a 1v3 fight against 'standard' mobs unless you fall asleep half way through.

I agree that, generally, overworld content is easy, but note that ESO was as you described above in the first stages and it was a huge disappointment for the non-MMO Elder Scrolls crowd, who were suffering through hard solo and instanced content as they moved up in the zones.

This MMO has some particulars to it that cannot be compared to others of its kind.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

I'm more or less a PvE player and like said on page 2 of the thread, I only went there to get vigor and planned never to go back. I ended up enjoying the whole experience and return when I need a change of pace. However, whilst i find it fun, I completely agree with those that say it's not relaxing. I can't understand how anyone can play this part of the game for hours on end. I end up with a headache if I play for too long and I think that's a combination of both the lag and always having to remain alert. It's not something I'd do close to when I'm about to turn in for the night. I did that once and was too wound up to sleep. When i say wound up, I don't mean I was raging because I got slaughtered more often than not, but it's too high octane due to the concentration levels involved.

wazzz56 · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

"little to no strategy in a group" lmao...thank you for that ..I needed a good laugh. Have you ever played in an actual PvP group? I am not talking a zerg, I am talking a group of PvPer's who have defined roles (like you get in PVE), who make builds to support these roles, who have rotations to support teammates, etc? You seem to think it is a population of brainless zerglings.......and guess what many groups who PvP together also run through trials and such together, so there is that......

NASH99 · December 2016

For me, in all honesty, it comes back to skill. I am a casual player so mechanics and a lot of the skill utilizing certain sets & what works best with what to give you a leg up in PvP doesn't come naturally to me. I enjoy the aspect of running dungeons with guildmates or the economy side of finding those rare pieces I can sell to others. With the PvE side, you can assist other players that are new to the game & help them build their character.

Bottom line, I don't PvP because I suck at it....

Wollust · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

But PvE is easy. Even vMoL HM.

But it's not true that mainly PvPer whine about the harder aspect of PvE. It's also loads of players that feel entitled to finish everything in the "play how you want" style. That includes loads of (more casual) PvEers.

Other way around, try taking a vMoL HM group into PvP. Shouldn't be too hard as PvP has litte to no strategy to it right? What a stupid statement

wazzz56 · December 2016

Zyrudin wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

There is one thing the PVP'er fears and so from time to time we see these kinds of posts.

They fear a PVP without a steady conveyor belt of low levels, role players and unaware or unprepared PVE'rs for them to feed on those easy AP's. They fear that Vigor, Warhorn and Barrier are made available by a possible Cyrodiil PVE campaign (just imagine the terror!), offering no reason for fresh meat to visit. They fear a stale community made up of the same known PVP veteran characters that already know all the meta and all the tricks, to the point where they don't really work anymore on anyone.

This is why it is hardcore PVP'ers who always try to pull and convince PVE'rs to PVP and rarely the other way around. That is why PVP'ers always try to tease and taunt PVE'rs to get them to Cyrodiil.

PVE'rs have all they need to play (casual overworld, dungeons, trials, etc), requiring only cooperation from other players for end game content. PVP'ers, on the other hand, need to "feed" on other players, because that is what PVP is set up to be right now.

In the beginning it was about the alliances, it was really about winning the campaign.
Now it is only about getting the kills to feed on AP's.

Have you guys watched that Baguette Report video, quite funny, that satirizes the constant fighting on the bridge between Alessia and Sejanus, while ignoring the rest of Cyrodiil? It is satire, but it does bring up the core of current PVP campaigns mentality. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE

@Zyrudin

Your post is fairly off base.....from my perspective anyway. I ,and the people I PvP with would much rather have a long battle with skilled players than preying on weak PvEr's. YEs I want more people in Cyro, but not for easy kills, I want more people to get skilled so we can have more good fights. The issue I, and many others have, is the complaining about being forced to PvP for things like vigor etc compared to the grind that it takes for undaunted etc.....your post is extremely presumptive and makes some pretty gross generalizations..and I am not a soley PvP guy

@wazzz56

I am sorry that my post made you feel that way and I accept that I presumed and generalized.

Still, note that you already have the possibility to have long skilled PvP battles and you will have that possibility even more with battlegrounds, whenever they come.

However, it cannot be ignored that there are only currently two PvP campaigns with actual population. This means something. It means that new players come in, at level 10 they are invited to PvP, try it out, see where the fighting is and go there to help, get ganked a few times, have to ride all the way back to where they were going, run into another ganker or a train, do this a few more times until they leave and go back to playing PvE. If you add to this that probably a significant amount of those players came from the Elder Scrolls perspective rather than MMO, then you can see how that reduces even further the tolerance to what goes on in PvP.

Why is PvP so unappealing to a significant chunk of PvE players?

Well, roleplayers will say that there is no "role" to be "played" there in terms of story and lore significance. Moreover, it is unforgiving if they try to "play the way they want", so at least in PvE, if they stay away from vet group dungeons, they can not care about meta, BiS and whatever and just wear what they want and play out their fiction.

PvE'rs in general (yes, a generalization here, I admit) will prefer to develop skill with their mates in a more predictable and clean cut way, one that will reward you for cooperating against nobody.

And why did I mention these two groups of players above?
Because this is the Elder Scrolls crowd.

Nevertheless, I am not against PvP at all. Actually, I used to enjoy it quite a lot back in the beginning of the game.
What I tried to convey was that from time to time you see PvP'ers coming to the forum and taunting PvE'rs to join PvP or for open world PvP to be available. Why? Because they need fresh meat, even if you @wazzz56 do not.

If a PvE campaign of Cyrodiil ever comes out, it will not invade your world, it will not affect PvP's long and skilled battles that you enjoy - it will, however, reduce the amount of inexperienced players entering PvP to be AP farmed. If such a campaign ever is released, it will be truly interesting to see how the numbers shift from one choice to the other, but the choice will still be there.

However, if open world PvP would ever be implemented, that is, where players could attack each other at will anywhere on Tamriel, it would be intrusive, because you would remove choice from the game to a chunk of players and certainly drive them away.

Now, to address the "being forced to PvP for things like vigor etc compared to the grind that it takes for undaunted", that is to be blamed on two factors:

- PvP design: because the gear and skills you earn in PvE cross over to PvP
- Meta: because it narrows down options to only a few overfarmed sets.

So both sides (PVE'ers and PvP'ers complaints) are right from their perspective, when they say that they are "forced". It is the design of PvP in terms of skills and gear mixing with PvE and the pressure to fulfill meta builds that I think, personally, drives this.

In any case, I reiterate that I am not for or against PvP or PvP'ers, what I think is that these are two worlds that are incompatibly implemented currently, particularly for a Elder Scrolls game.

@Zyrudin
I appreciate your response, and think you have some very valid points.
A few things...
*I really do not see post "baiting " PvEr's into PvP...I do see an instance of an argument ending in "1v1 me bro" or "come get rekt" etc, but the same could be said for the PVE crowd....not baiting people in, but more of a talking down of others who have not gotten the achievements etc ( not sure if my wording is clear here, sorry if not).

* Many of the PvPers are people who played ES games, came to ESO and loved the AvAvA set up...
* a PvP free Cyrodiil....that is fine..as long as PVPers have access to the skyshards, lorebooks and loot etc in a far less challenging mode of PvE..I am sure PvE's would love to just breeze through COS for the helm..or walk through Vmsa and open a chest..because that is what asking for PvP free Cyrodiil is asking for....cut any of the challenge out for s specific area of the game in order to gain things that occur only in those areas......

just my opinion

Lysette · December 2016

NASH99 wrote: »

For me, in all honesty, it comes back to skill. I am a casual player so mechanics and a lot of the skill utilizing certain sets & what works best with what to give you a leg up in PvP doesn't come naturally to me. I enjoy the aspect of running dungeons with guildmates or the economy side of finding those rare pieces I can sell to others. With the PvE side, you can assist other players that are new to the game & help them build their character.

Bottom line, I don't PvP because I suck at it....

I seriously doubt, that you would like PvP, if you wouldn't suck at it. PvP requires either a real significant purpose to be fun (which is not the case in ESO, because it is overall meaningless and has no lasting consequences whatsoever) or it requires a killer instinct, which basically means, you have to give a damn about what other players feel in favor of your own ego. I don't think that you qualify for the later, coop gameplay would suit you, but not killing other players for no better reason than AP. So even if you would have the skills, you wouldn't really enjoy it IMO.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

Wollust wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

But PvE is easy. Even vMoL HM.
But it's not true that mainly PvPer whine about the harder aspect of PvE. It's also loads of players that feel entitled to finish everything in the "play how you want" style. That includes loads of (more casual) PvEers.

Other way around, try taking a vMoL HM group into PvP. Shouldn't be too hard as PvP has litte to no strategy to it right? What a stupid statement

Unless you come up against an organised group, then no, it's not too difficult and no idea why people would say otherwise when every man and his dog can easily just venture into Cyrodiil and see that is the case. I sucketh balls at PvP, not really geared for PvP etc, yet had more than my fair share of kills. How often do you run into an organised group of PvPers? In my experience, not often at all. Not saying there aren't any because that would be stupid to state that,and it's not too difficult to recognise when you do because my lack of skill then gets shown up for what it is, but those groups are a minority. Whereas running vMA, vMoL etc means you'll be up against it each and every time.

Zyrudin · December 2016

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Zyrudin
I appreciate your response, and think you have some very valid points.
A few things...
*I really do not see post "baiting " PvEr's into PvP...I do see an instance of an argument ending in "1v1 me bro" or "come get rekt" etc, but the same could be said for the PVE crowd....not baiting people in, but more of a talking down of others who have not gotten the achievements etc ( not sure if my wording is clear here, sorry if not).

* Many of the PvPers are people who played ES games, came to ESO and loved the AvAvA set up...
* a PvP free Cyrodiil....that is fine..as long as PVPers have access to the skyshards, lorebooks and loot etc in a far less challenging mode of PvE..I am sure PvE's would love to just breeze through COS for the helm..or walk through Vmsa and open a chest..because that is what asking for PvP free Cyrodiil is asking for....cut any of the challenge out for s specific area of the game in order to gain things that occur only in those areas......

just my opinion

@wazzz56

Now that is a generalization right there

PvE'rs in general are not those who only like easy stuff, mate, those are found among any group, PvE'rs included, but do not make up the whole group, nor the majority at all.

It seems you are assuming that when I referred a possible PvE Cyrodiil Alliance War campaign, I was referring to the same free roam setup you have now in Cyrodiil only without Players fighting each other. No, I was actually saying that if ever a Cyrodiil PvE campaign was done that would work like a sort of mega raid for a group of, let's say, 20, subdivided into its own questline where you have to accomplish this objective first from faction A one day, then that objective next from faction B another day (all PvE content, like Trials), until you go through the whole campaign and win the war (beat the Cyrodiil raid, in this case), then it would offer another endgame content for PvE'ers (I would accept that this content would be extremely hard) that would not affect PvP per se.

As to the argument made by PvP'rs, yes, I did see instances of Players asking for open world PvP to be able to get real game and real challenges to those "carebears", for example. Search around the forum for it, if you're interested and have the time, but I did see and from time to time it comes back again. These PvP players see PvE only players as "carebears", or, at least, they are in fact "baiting" by calling them that.

wazzz56 · December 2016

@Zyrudin

I like the idea, but in a different map...
Problem is, many people do not want it how you lay it out..they want an easy skyshard,delve and lorebook land.

DPShiro · December 2016

Wollust wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

But PvE is easy. Even vMoL HM.
But it's not true that mainly PvPer whine about the harder aspect of PvE. It's also loads of players that feel entitled to finish everything in the "play how you want" style. That includes loads of (more casual) PvEers.

Other way around, try taking a vMoL HM group into PvP. Shouldn't be too hard as PvP has litte to no strategy to it right? What a stupid statement

Please, we all know Rakkhat can be ganked on Hard Mode if you use Viper/RM/Velidreth/etc

Bad and entitled players will whine no matter where they are from (PVE/PVP) - but some of the attitude in here from PVP players is just igniting more stupid drama between players.

Matt45045 · December 2016

I play both PVP and PVE. Until the last month or two though, it has been 90% PvE. For the PvEers, there is a ton of roleplay on the PVP side. The PVE side says the PVPers are toxic and have bad attitudes, but go and look at any thread about why people don't like the Grouping Tool or PUGs in general and you will see how toxic the PvE side can be. Same with the elitism, the PvE side complains about being called "Carebears" and claim the PvPers are elitist. But in PvE if your DPS isn't at x number or you don't have x CP points, or even if you are playing well and die because ish happens sometimes people turn ugly quick. I've seen really ugly stuff when everyone just wants to get through x dungeon to get y helm but there is more than one wipe, the group implodes in kick attempts, accusations, and insults. A lot of what has been said about the PvP side certainly is true and I think ESOs poor PvP setup and balance exacerbate it greatly. But at the same time, I don't know how the PvE side always makes certain accusations while ignoring the toxicity that is just as bad in our own ranks.

For the PvPers, we know most of what has been said here is true in general of all PvP in most MMOs. I think all of us on both sides could be a little bit better about regulating the toxic people in general.

Strider_Roshin · December 2016

Matt45045 wrote: »

I play both PVP and PVE. Until the last month or two though, it has been 90% PvE. For the PvEers, there is a ton of roleplay on the PVP side. The PVE side says the PVPers are toxic and have bad attitudes, but go and look at any thread about why people don't like the Grouping Tool or PUGs in general and you will see how toxic the PvE side can be. Same with the elitism, the PvE side complains about being called "Carebears" and claim the PvPers are elitist. But in PvE if your DPS isn't at x number or you don't have x CP points, or even if you are playing well and die because ish happens sometimes people turn ugly quick. I've seen really ugly stuff when everyone just wants to get through x dungeon to get y helm but there is more than one wipe, the group implodes in kick attempts, accusations, and insults. A lot of what has been said about the PvP side certainly is true and I think ESOs poor PvP setup and balance exacerbate it greatly. But at the same time, I don't know how the PvE side always makes certain accusations while ignoring the toxicity that is just as bad in our own ranks.

For the PvPers, we know most of what has been said here is true in general of all PvP in most MMOs. I think all of us on both sides could be a little bit better about regulating the toxic people in general.

You are what you eat so to speak. What kind of community do you expect when the developers bring in sets like proc sets, ultimates like the destro ult, and discourage counter play with the changes made to soul assault? Yeah the community could act a bit more mature, but a lot of this toxicity is in response to the actions of the developers.

TK703 · December 2016

I've found over many many years, that I just suck playing against a human opponent. From the original mortal combat, to killer instinct gold, to 007 golden eye, mario kart 64, and whatever other multiplayer games I tried after that, I lose 90%+ of the time. I have no problem beating the games and dealing with the game rendered enemies. This game is a bit different. There are a couple group dungeons I can solo, a few world bosses I've tackled myself, but there's obviously content I can't beat on my own, and that's intended and that's fine. The on duels I've won was with a terrible duel wield templar build (split points between magica and stamina for sustain of attack), and on that toon I did win some fights in the Imperial City, last was some stealthed night blade that tried to jump me as I headed back to home base, but those are the exceptions. I pretty much get destroyed no matter what build I'm running. I have one toon that has just over 100CP, so I do get to distribute that to my other builds. I don't have caltrops or vigor on any of my toons. I don't have jack for proc sets or crafted sets, just what I'm able to pick up in PVE. I do like PVE, I like the story lines, although it can get repetitive and boring at times doing the same thing on diff toons. I can at least adopt a strategy that works for my toon and works for PVE. In PVP, those strategies and builds totally fail. Maybe if I spent more time in PVP, I could learn and get better, but when I hear things like "it's a must that you have these stupid proc sets to be competitive in PVP" I get turned off instantly. Proc sets need to go! I think they're stupid, and give a very stupid advantage over people that don't have them or don't want to spend the time to get them. If that's the cost of playing PVP, then I won't PVP. Crafted sets on the other hand are ok. Crafted sets do promote you being in a guild and working with others. I guess if all my toons were CP160 or more, then the same would apply to proc sets, as they could be traded for or bought from guildies, but proc sets still suck. Other than that, and back to my first point, I just suck at PVP. Even if I was CP571 with the best proc sets for my build and the best build for my toon, I"d probably lose the majority of the time. That covers duels. As for group PVP, I haven't had the luxury of being in an organized guild that tackled group PVP, but that does sound like fun.

Prof_Bawbag · December 2016

Dunno why people just don't have a good drink before doing their respective thing. It all becomes water off a duck's back. 5th group wipe on some trash mob - meh, it happens. "Another beer, dear!" The only negative about playing whilst having a beer/vodka or 10 is you're more prone to buying complete and utter shite from the crown store.

AuldWolf · December 2016

@wazzz56

You're talking about the grinder crowd, the crowd that thinks of itself as 'hardcore.' They like to compete. They use damage meters and such to prove they're better than one another. They're no better when it comes to toxicity, having a needlessly pronounced killer instinct, and just being toxic in general than PvPers. They're very much the same kind of beast. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of grinders did PvP. It's just a different kind of competition.

What's the major difference between a grinder/PvPer and a casual player? Casual players aren't competitive in nature, and don't mingle well with competitive players. This is because more competitive players have something to prove, for whatever reason. They're turning a game into a job, or something they can brag about as an achievement. Not everyone feels the need to do that. Casual players choose to play a game for fun. Back when I played Skies of Arcadia (brilliant game), I wasn't playing it to prove anything to anyone. It was something I did to relax.

I think -- looking at WoW and League of Legends -- competitive players enjoy being toxic and over-aggressive, it's how they relax. It's just that that environment isn't the same environment that casuals enjoy. So what you're saying about grinders is true, absolutely. They'll rate you like a piece of meat, much like PvPers will, and they'll judge you for everything you do. There's a strict hierarchy amongst competitive people. It's a different kind of audience and scene entirely.

So it's not 'Why don't PvErs want to PvP,' but rather 'why don't casuals want to compete?' And that's like asking 'why aren't introverts more extraverted' or 'why aren't women more like men?' It's a matter of different people having different brains. It's why you won't really find proper casuals in League of Legends, because the whole scene is too toxic for them. It's the same reason you won't find proper casuals in raids, too. It's just too toxic.

I mean, you have to consider that some people even have nervous conditions. And on top of that? The biggest majority of people just play games to have fun. Imagine that. I know that EvE is played by a lot of corporate people, for example, because their killer instinct, sociopathic tendencies, and aggressiveness actually pay off. It's a dog eat dog world in EvE. But not everyone wants that. Not everyone has that killer's instinct in the first place.

And as I said in my prior post -- That's why casuals get so much hate from the competitive crowd. We don't compete, so we're seen as alien and that's frightening and weird. We don't want to compare AP, CP, or any kind of P. We're fine not comparing types of P. We just want to play. So we'll get kicked from groups, labelled 'carebear,' and ganked. It's like with bullying -- Bullies love to pick on anyone different from them. Anyone they're afraid of for being 'weird,' basically.

And whenever I've played any open world PvP game (Ultima Online et al), there were lots and lots of bullies. It didn't matter what I wanted. Consent didn't matter to them. They just wanted to kill. And that's fine, but I'd rather have a game space that doesn't involve them. Whenever a game space does involve them, they force things I don't want on me. I don't like that.

Jaronking · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

That's a bold face lie most of the people who complain about VMA are pvers I haven't seen any threads on here by PVPERS complaining about VMA.No PVPer has every complained about PVE because its so easy its stupid only people who complain about VMA or any PVE content are PVe carebears.

Like I said majority of PVE expect for Vet MOl ,VMA VEt AA and Vet Sanctum everything else you can pretty much do sleeping.

Oh really? Have you missed all those threads/posts about "waaah waaaah why should I have to do VMA to get the weapons, I only PVP, sell them at golden already".

And lol, you already said PVE content is so ways you can do it while you sleep, and now you are changing it to exclude the actual hard content? Of course playing ways content is easy, but there is challenging content for a reason. But since you said that PVE content is sooooo easy, what's your score in vMoL HM? Should be at top because it's so easy you fall asleep right?

Also lol at you trying to insult by saying "carebears" - just goes to show the infantile mentality of the forum raging pvp player such as yourself.

Are you talking about the 3 threads asking for VMA weapons being on the vendor?Their 100s of threads from pure PVERS who asked for VMA to be nerfed. For every thread where a PVPer or a post from a PVPER asking for VMA weapons in the golden their 10-20+ threads or post asking from pure pvers to have VMA nerfed.If you want we both can go through the thread and find every thread and post about PVpers asking for VMA weapons at the Golden and I promise you its 10-1 at least.Nice job guy 3-5 threads compare to 50+ threads asking for it nerfed by pvers.

Yea I named 4 pieces of content all trials,Which in reality is less then 1% of pve content in the game.Also I never changed my post I said the majority you assumed I said all content you should try actually reading people post.When more than 99% of the content of face roll easy its a issue and you only have 4 pieces of content that is actually challenging not very impressive.I haven't done Vet Mol this update haven't been playing ESO that much last update because I mainly PVP and PVP been aids to th fullest.So haven't been playing next time.its the weekly or something and I feel.like playing I got you.

Man I love kids like you do anything to defend your easy mode content. Maybe one day the big bad pvpers won't kill you.

kamimark · December 2016

In PVE, the game developers have (hopefully) made balanced sets of encounters, which you can develop skill and get gear to beat. If the enemies beat you, you just made a mistake and can go back and do it again, no hard feelings because they're just software. The NPCs often have good lines and backstory.

In PVP, you're thrown into a tank full of piranhas whose entire purpose is to kill you in groups. Skill doesn't matter much, there is no balance, you can only get a bigger gang. And if you do kill someone, they get upset; if they kill you, they may gloat and teabag and pretend like they're amazing for it. Other players in PVP are named "XXXAragornxxx" and their backstory is "I WILL *** YOUR SISTER" (actual quote, name changed because I don't remember or care).

The few times I've done PVP, I've got a positive kill/death ratio, but it's still unpleasant and unnecessary. I'll stick to something that's fun.

tanek · December 2016

My reason for not playing PvP is simple. I am not good at it.

Yes there may be the insults and the exploits and the general bad attitudes that are often found in PvP games, but I can deal with that and it is not all (or probably even a majority of) players who act like that. I know some very friendly people who PvP and would happily help another player.

At the core, I am just not great when it comes to thinking and reacting in PvP situations. Most times I've tried, I find myself locked down by stuns and unable to do anything anyway. It is very frustrating and, to me, not fun. I have dabbled in PvP styles where it is not necessarily 1-on-1 play (WvW in GW2 comes to mind) and I may try it here, too, but PvE may just always be my preferred mode. I know there that if I get defeated I can go back learn how to win.

In other words...yep, I'm a wimp.

wazzz56 · December 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

@wazzz56

You're talking about the grinder crowd, the crowd that thinks of itself as 'hardcore.' They like to compete. They use damage meters and such to prove they're better than one another. They're no better when it comes to toxicity, having a needlessly pronounced killer instinct, and just being toxic in general than PvPers. They're very much the same kind of beast. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of grinders did PvP. It's just a different kind of competition.

What's the major difference between a grinder/PvPer and a casual player? Casual players aren't competitive in nature, and don't mingle well with competitive players. This is because more competitive players have something to prove, for whatever reason. They're turning a game into a job, or something they can brag about as an achievement. Not everyone feels the need to do that. Casual players choose to play a game for fun. Back when I played Skies of Arcadia (brilliant game), I wasn't playing it to prove anything to anyone. It was something I did to relax.

I think -- looking at WoW and League of Legends -- competitive players enjoy being toxic and over-aggressive, it's how they relax. It's just that that environment isn't the same environment that casuals enjoy. So what you're saying about grinders is true, absolutely. They'll rate you like a piece of meat, much like PvPers will, and they'll judge you for everything you do. There's a strict hierarchy amongst competitive people. It's a different kind of audience and scene entirely.

So it's not 'Why don't PvErs want to PvP,' but rather 'why don't casuals want to compete?' And that's like asking 'why aren't introverts more extraverted' or 'why aren't women more like men?' It's a matter of different people having different brains. It's why you won't really find proper casuals in League of Legends, because the whole scene is too toxic for them. It's the same reason you won't find proper casuals in raids, too. It's just too toxic.

I mean, you have to consider that some people even have nervous conditions. And on top of that? The biggest majority of people just play games to have fun. Imagine that. I know that EvE is played by a lot of corporate people, for example, because their killer instinct, sociopathic tendencies, and aggressiveness actually pay off. It's a dog eat dog world in EvE. But not everyone wants that. Not everyone has that killer's instinct in the first place.

And as I said in my prior post -- That's why casuals get so much hate from the competitive crowd. We don't compete, so we're seen as alien and that's frightening and weird. We don't want to compare AP, CP, or any kind of P. We're fine not comparing types of P. We just want to play. So we'll get kicked from groups, labelled 'carebear,' and ganked. It's like with bullying -- Bullies love to pick on anyone different from them. Anyone they're afraid of for being 'weird,' basically.

And whenever I've played any open world PvP game (Ultima Online et al), there were lots and lots of bullies. It didn't matter what I wanted. Consent didn't matter to them. They just wanted to kill. And that's fine, but I'd rather have a game space that doesn't involve them. Whenever a game space does involve them, they force things I don't want on me. I don't like that.

@AuldWolf

you do understand that not all PvPer's are like you describe right? It is actually very few are that way. You seperate the PvEr's into casuals and "Grinders" but lump PvPers into one group..Most will never use the word "casual" or "carebear " to describe someone...Most, if presented with a player new to PvP will help rather than demean. We picked up a random healer who was looking for a group in zone chat while defending Emp for my buddy last night..and guess what, he had questions about PvP healing versus PvE healing, and he was eagerly helped..He was not mocked, called a noob or casual..This happens more often than the opposite..Also for many it is not about competition per say it is about a more dynamic opponent with more unpredictable mechanics.

Wollust · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I love how many pvp players say that pve content is too easy and they can do it in their sleep etc - yet they are mostly the people who whine and complain most about not being able to beat VMA etc. and wants content nerfed.

PVP has little to no strategy in a group. Joining a large group and spamming sap essence or steel tornado while running around the map is not skill.
By all means try taking that group in vMoL HM and see how it goes. Shouldn't be a problem since everything is too easy?

But PvE is easy. Even vMoL HM.
But it's not true that mainly PvPer whine about the harder aspect of PvE. It's also loads of players that feel entitled to finish everything in the "play how you want" style. That includes loads of (more casual) PvEers.

Other way around, try taking a vMoL HM group into PvP. Shouldn't be too hard as PvP has litte to no strategy to it right? What a stupid statement

Please, we all know Rakkhat can be ganked on Hard Mode if you use Viper/RM/Velidreth/etc

Bad and entitled players will whine no matter where they are from (PVE/PVP) - but some of the attitude in here from PVP players is just igniting more stupid drama between players.

You haven't seen my opener on Rhakkat yet.

Not denying that some PvPers have a crappy attitude. But the same goes for some PvEers. Generalizing is never a good thing. And all the drama and *** stirring between each other is stupid as well.

DPShiro · December 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Man I love kids like you do anything to defend your easy mode content. Maybe one day the big bad pvpers won't kill you.

Wow another pathetic attempt at an insult, you really are juvenile beyond measures bud.
And I'm pushing 40, but apparently that is a kid to you? What are you 90+?

I love how you are the epitome of a PVP stereotype - it's hilarious!

Zyrudin · December 2016

wazzz56 wrote: »

@Zyrudin

I like the idea, but in a different map...
Problem is, many people do not want it how you lay it out..they want an easy skyshard,delve and lorebook land.

@wazzz56

I don't think they really want easy skyshards and lorebooks in Cyrodiil, when they have more than enough in PvE areas, but I can accept that some will - there's people for everything.

By the way, why did you say "but in a different map"? The map of Cyrodiil is already done and ready and could easily be adapted to raid-type endgame PvE step-by-step objectives questlines.

nexxus_ESO · December 2016

"Pve players, why don't you like PvP?"

I don't hate PvP, I just have no interest in it. I have zero interest in running around killing other players. I don't want to duel. I don't want to creep around, leap out and stab other players to death. I gain absolutely zero satisfaction from "beating" another player. It's not who I am as a person, and it's not my idea of fun. I play games for fun. If I wanted to do that sort of thing, I'd play CoD or GoW or Halo or any of the hundreds of other games out there specifically designed to let players kill other players.

I sympathize with PvP and all the lag, lack of balance, and lack of updates/content.

There is a toxic subset of players in PvP and they don't do the community any favors, nor do they encourage anyone who might have otherwise been willing to give PvP a shot. Every community has bad apples, even PvE, so don't mistake what I've said as an attack, because it's really not. The toxic players in PvP are just louder and more obnoxious by circumstance. (Scammers and trolls don't tend to go around advertising what they do because it can get them banned, whereas outright a***oles have no regard for anyone but themselves and their fellow a***oles–and even that small amount of loyalty is tenuous at best)

I did my time, and unlocked the skills I needed by running around and throwing heals until I died–I even enjoyed the complete chaos for chaos' sake. I'm a PvE healer, so it was just a vastly more insane version of what I do normally. I'll go back and do it again if a guildie needs to level skills and wants company, or if I need skills on another character. There's very little chance you'll see me in Cyro otherwise. (Much

to all the random players who rezzed me when I was dead and saved me the horse ride)

Jaronking · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Man I love kids like you do anything to defend your easy mode content. Maybe one day the big bad pvpers won't kill you.

Wow another pathetic attempt at an insult, you really are juvenile beyond measures bud.
And I'm pushing 40, but apparently that is a kid to you? What are you 90+?

I love how you are the epitome of a PVP stereotype - it's hilarious!

Lmao right dude am sorry I don't like easy content like yourself.I never insulted you that would have caused me to be banned but hey I really don't care about what you think but as it is you just shows me that your another carebear pver who scared the big bad pvper will kill them and know that their not the best in the world.

I really do love that you don't say nothing about the rest of my post because you know it's the truth.

Stopnaggin · December 2016

wazzz56 wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

@wazzz56

You're talking about the grinder crowd, the crowd that thinks of itself as 'hardcore.' They like to compete. They use damage meters and such to prove they're better than one another. They're no better when it comes to toxicity, having a needlessly pronounced killer instinct, and just being toxic in general than PvPers. They're very much the same kind of beast. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of grinders did PvP. It's just a different kind of competition.

What's the major difference between a grinder/PvPer and a casual player? Casual players aren't competitive in nature, and don't mingle well with competitive players. This is because more competitive players have something to prove, for whatever reason. They're turning a game into a job, or something they can brag about as an achievement. Not everyone feels the need to do that. Casual players choose to play a game for fun. Back when I played Skies of Arcadia (brilliant game), I wasn't playing it to prove anything to anyone. It was something I did to relax.

I think -- looking at WoW and League of Legends -- competitive players enjoy being toxic and over-aggressive, it's how they relax. It's just that that environment isn't the same environment that casuals enjoy. So what you're saying about grinders is true, absolutely. They'll rate you like a piece of meat, much like PvPers will, and they'll judge you for everything you do. There's a strict hierarchy amongst competitive people. It's a different kind of audience and scene entirely.

So it's not 'Why don't PvErs want to PvP,' but rather 'why don't casuals want to compete?' And that's like asking 'why aren't introverts more extraverted' or 'why aren't women more like men?' It's a matter of different people having different brains. It's why you won't really find proper casuals in League of Legends, because the whole scene is too toxic for them. It's the same reason you won't find proper casuals in raids, too. It's just too toxic.

I mean, you have to consider that some people even have nervous conditions. And on top of that? The biggest majority of people just play games to have fun. Imagine that. I know that EvE is played by a lot of corporate people, for example, because their killer instinct, sociopathic tendencies, and aggressiveness actually pay off. It's a dog eat dog world in EvE. But not everyone wants that. Not everyone has that killer's instinct in the first place.

And as I said in my prior post -- That's why casuals get so much hate from the competitive crowd. We don't compete, so we're seen as alien and that's frightening and weird. We don't want to compare AP, CP, or any kind of P. We're fine not comparing types of P. We just want to play. So we'll get kicked from groups, labelled 'carebear,' and ganked. It's like with bullying -- Bullies love to pick on anyone different from them. Anyone they're afraid of for being 'weird,' basically.

And whenever I've played any open world PvP game (Ultima Online et al), there were lots and lots of bullies. It didn't matter what I wanted. Consent didn't matter to them. They just wanted to kill. And that's fine, but I'd rather have a game space that doesn't involve them. Whenever a game space does involve them, they force things I don't want on me. I don't like that.

@AuldWolf

you do understand that not all PvPer's are like you describe right? It is actually very few are that way. You seperate the PvEr's into casuals and "Grinders" but lump PvPers into one group..Most will never use the word "casual" or "carebear " to describe someone...Most, if presented with a player new to PvP will help rather than demean. We picked up a random healer who was looking for a group in zone chat while defending Emp for my buddy last night..and guess what, he had questions about PvP healing versus PvE healing, and he was eagerly helped..He was not mocked, called a noob or casual..This happens more often than the opposite..Also for many it is not about competition per say it is about a more dynamic opponent with more unpredictable mechanics.

But it rare, especially in the veteran campaigns, they are there to be competitive. All that's fine, toxic players on other fronts, even more so since 1T. I've been fishing and gotten ganked by a group of 20 players, teabagging and all the zone chats crap. I've also been fishing and groups pass right on by or even start fishing. Same goes for pve. Running dungeons and listening to that 1 guy who thinks everyone else sucks, been in dungeons where people will carry 2 others to teach or help them with equipment.

Anytime there is something that can be made into a competition there are those who will jump at it and others that wont. I've seen people scream over nodes, even making it a competitive event to get there first. It's not some much pve vs pvp, it's competitive natured people vs laid back people. It's also a self esteem issue for some, those that have to prove they are better than you find some satisfaction from grouping up and abusing others, ie mob mentality.

In all honesty it's not a game issue as much as a human nature, and personality issue. I'm more the laid back type, although I pvp with guildies and can become competitive wanting to flip a map or whatever. But when we do its not aggressive natured it's having fun. I don't need to gloat over people when they lose and we win. Same with dueling always a gg regardless of the results.