Burning Embers: How to get the biggest bang for your buck?

Savos_Saren · December 2016

I've got a Dunmer mDK tank that uses Burning Embers as his primary heal and DoT (just a little added DPS for the group). As it stands, I heal for 97% of the 15,732 damage over 10 seconds. Which, of course, if I cast it again before the 10 seconds is up- I still get a portion of the heals. (IE- recasting it at 5 seconds would give me a 7,630 burst heal!)

I'm wondering if anyone has any technical insight (through Champion Point distribution) as to improve the damage/heal from burning embers.

Currently, I have:
100 Elemental Expert
30 Spell Erosion
20 Elfborn
7 Blessed

30 Thaumaturge

22 Quick recovery

Since a mDK tank's crit is pretty low, I don't think I get much out of Elfborn. I'm thinking that I could redistribute points from Elfborn and Blessed to Thaumaturge. If I stack 50 points into Thaumaturge- won't that significantly increase the damage and heal from Burning Embers?

Has anyone crunched the numbers for the gains of Thaumaturge?

idk · December 2016

While is should since the skill used is a DoT, I doubt anyone has specifically looked at CP for the single skill.

DPS builds look at what is best for the entire build and I've not heard of a solid tank build using that skill over coagulating blood.

Savos_Saren · December 2016

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

I'll give it a try and toss about 50 points to thaumaturge. I'll let you know the results. As for coagulating blood- hell, most tanks use vigor instead. I wish Zeni would reevaluate Coagulating/Green Dragon Blood. It has such potential!

DRXHarbinger · December 2016

I put 100 in expert and 67 in therm, 20 in elf born. You're all dots so stack them up in there. Remember your heal can crit too, that's my flawless cp for that tree anyway.

Savos_Saren · December 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I put 100 in expert and 67 in therm, 20 in elf born. You're all dots so stack them up in there. Remember your heal can crit too, that's my flawless cp for that tree anyway.

@DRXHarbinger

So you don't put any toward Spell Erosion? As a heavy armor wearer- don't you need that extra spell penetration? I'm not second-guessing you... I'm honestly asking.

DRXHarbinger · December 2016

jaburns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I put 100 in expert and 67 in therm, 20 in elf born. You're all dots so stack them up in there. Remember your heal can crit too, that's my flawless cp for that tree anyway.

@DRXHarbinger

So you don't put any toward Spell Erosion? As a heavy armor wearer- don't you need that extra spell penetration? I'm not second-guessing you... I'm honestly asking.

What does that actually give you? Like 1.5k spell pen or something? Not worth it at all. I honestly don't put anything into it. Plus remember you've got engulfing flames which gives you 10% more fire damage, so that 16k dot is actually a minimum 17600, plus each tick can crit so you'll be doing at least 20k+ giving you at least a 15k+ heal (it's 79% not 97%) plus it takes into account the initial hit not just the dot for the heal, so that's 5k so another 3+k heal.

stevepdodson_ESO888 · December 2016

jaburns wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

I'll give it a try and toss about 50 points to thaumaturge. I'll let you know the results. As for coagulating blood- hell, most tanks use vigor instead. I wish Zeni would reevaluate Coagulating/Green Dragon Blood. It has such potential!

if the rumours are to believed, this is going to happen...GDB will be reborn

Savos_Saren · December 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I put 100 in expert and 67 in therm, 20 in elf born. You're all dots so stack them up in there. Remember your heal can crit too, that's my flawless cp for that tree anyway.

@DRXHarbinger

So you don't put any toward Spell Erosion? As a heavy armor wearer- don't you need that extra spell penetration? I'm not second-guessing you... I'm honestly asking.

What does that actually give you? Like 1.5k spell pen or something? Not worth it at all. I honestly don't put anything into it. Plus remember you've got engulfing flames which gives you 10% more fire damage, so that 16k dot is actually a minimum 17600, plus each tick can crit so you'll be doing at least 20k+ giving you at least a 15k+ heal (it's 79% not 97%) plus it takes into account the initial hit not just the dot for the heal, so that's 5k so another 3+k heal.

@DRXHarbinger

Fantastic. Thanks bud. I'll redistribute accordingly!

Cryptical · December 2016

First, learn that the more points you put into something, the less it increases.

First point gives you a full percent. Next point gives a bit less. Third point gives you a bit less than the second point gave you.

It is diminishing returns.

If 100 champ points buys you 25% effect, then 37 champ points buys you 12.5% and it costs you another 63 champ points to get the second 12.5%

What if milk was like that? If the first half of a gallon cost $1.50 and the second half of a gallon cost $2.75 would you buy the full gallon for $4.25 or stop at the half gallon for just $1.50?

So start by figuring what you want to buy, and put in enough points to get half of the full buff. If you do that, you will be hugging the "max benefit for lowest cost" curve. Some things have a max effect of 25%, some max out at 24% or 18% or 16%. Hugging the prime cost/benefit curve also means you'll be able to scoop up more of those champ passives with an absolute minimum of waste.

WillhelmBlack · December 2016

75 Thaumaturge
Split rest between Blessed and Elemental.

Someone will need to confirm if bosses/mobs can be set off balance because 43 points in Thaumaturge may be better otherwise.

Savos_Saren · December 2016

Hey guys- I managed to tweak it to get what I consider the most benefits. Here's the numbers that I came up with:

With my original CP setup (see above), it gave me 97% healing from 15,732 damage.

I took @DRXHarbinger 's advice and moved a large portion to Thaumaturge to equal 50 points- but I also distributed some of it to Blessed to equal 17 points. (It'll help with heals from all my sources- not just burning embers)

Now, I heal for 100% of 16,266 damage inflicted.

itsfatbass · December 2016

Yeah def don't waste points into spell erosion. Much better off with Thaumaturge or Elemental Expert. The increase per point is just simply not enough to make it worthwhile.

STEVIL · December 2016

jaburns wrote: »

Hey guys- I managed to tweak it to get what I consider the most benefits. Here's the numbers that I came up with:

With my original CP setup (see above), it gave me 97% healing from 15,732 damage.

I took @DRXHarbinger 's advice and moved a large portion to Thaumaturge to equal 50 points- but I also distributed some of it to Blessed to equal 17 points. (It'll help with heals from all my sources- not just burning embers)

Now, I heal for 100% of 16,266 damage inflicted.

I tend to favor distributing rather evenly to trees and branches that combine due to the diminis returns. Pts in damage, dot,, erosion, heal done heal rec tend to be closer to each other than a lot of the "100 here then what's left there" spreads I see chatted.

That's for solo.play of course. If you are group, you can laser in on dps when somebody else has healing duty.

So really the "ideal" spreads vary with content.

DRXHarbinger · December 2016

jaburns wrote: »

Hey guys- I managed to tweak it to get what I consider the most benefits. Here's the numbers that I came up with:

With my original CP setup (see above), it gave me 97% healing from 15,732 damage.

I took @DRXHarbinger 's advice and moved a large portion to Thaumaturge to equal 50 points- but I also distributed some of it to Blessed to equal 17 points. (It'll help with heals from all my sources- not just burning embers)

Now, I heal for 100% of 16,266 damage inflicted.

Glad to help. Remember that's the minimum heal lol. My 17k health dk heals to full from spamming embers. When the group has warhorn up the heals will be op as. Also when you've got major mending up you'll be pretty op with that. Anything that isn't one shot should be out spammable.

If you want a good tester for it do vICP and tank the overfiend. If you can out spam that you'll be fine. It ls the hardest hitter outside of some trial bosses and one shots still. 22k flurry.

cpuScientist · December 2016

Just in case OP or anyone here doesn't know. The skill is bugged and multiple casts by another player cancel the skill for others. So if you use it as a heal and another DK is in the group it will cancel their damage. It can lower DPS a good 3-7k per DK in the group.

ZOS has been informed of the bug though they have completely ignored any thread made about it.

Savos_Saren · December 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

Just in case OP or anyone here doesn't know. The skill is bugged and multiple casts by another player cancel the skill for others. So if you use it as a heal and another DK is in the group it will cancel their damage. It can lower DPS a good 3-7k per DK in the group.

ZOS has been informed of the bug though they have completely ignored any thread made about it.

@cpuScientist

Really? Thanks for the info, bud. I'll have my wife log onto her mDK and we'll test it to see if it's still bugged. Thanks for the PSA!

cpuScientist · December 2016

NP. Just do burning embers and have her constantly recast hers and you will see the heal proc on you

Savos_Saren · December 2016

@DRXHarbinger @cpuScientist

While we're on this subject:

For this mDK tank, I'm using Akaviri Dragonguard heavy armor (heals taken, regen, ulti bonus) and Silks of the Sun jewelry/weapons (increases the fire damage- which increases my heals). Do you all think that I should replace Silks of the Sun with Burning Spellweave?

Remember this isn't a vet Trials tank- so, there's no need for Tava/Bloodspawn/Alkosh builds.

DRXHarbinger · December 2016

Ditch sun. It's trash compared to spell weave, pig of a farm if you're after a sword and board but jewlery is easy. Rings come from the banekin mini boss so an easy rinse and repeat for those. Sun doesn't get boosted by igneous whereas spellweave is essentially worth 720SD buffed minimum. It's too good. Even Julianos is better than sun. Plus you can craft the pieces you need in heavy too and dragon guard jewlery which is filthy cheap.

Savos_Saren · December 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Ditch sun. It's trash compared to spell weave, pig of a farm if you're after a sword and board but jewlery is easy. Rings come from the banekin mini boss so an easy rinse and repeat for those. Sun doesn't get boosted by igneous whereas spellweave is essentially worth 720SD buffed minimum. It's too good. Even Julianos is better than sun. Plus you can craft the pieces you need in heavy too and dragon guard jewlery which is filthy cheap.

@DRXHarbinger

Holy crap. I didn't even realize that BSW dropped from regular CoA these days. Won't the jewelry be blue quality, though?

DRXHarbinger · December 2016

jaburns wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Ditch sun. It's trash compared to spell weave, pig of a farm if you're after a sword and board but jewlery is easy. Rings come from the banekin mini boss so an easy rinse and repeat for those. Sun doesn't get boosted by igneous whereas spellweave is essentially worth 720SD buffed minimum. It's too good. Even Julianos is better than sun. Plus you can craft the pieces you need in heavy too and dragon guard jewlery which is filthy cheap.

@DRXHarbinger

Holy crap. I didn't even realize that BSW dropped from regular CoA these days. Won't the jewelry be blue quality, though?

It does yeah lol. For an easy farm for armor pieces just farm the infernal guardian (big pieces), banekin dude (rings and small pieces) and the one after him (big pieces again) and repeat on normal. For jewlery just go in nuke the banekin boss for rings. For necks though you need to kill the last boss.

If you have a magsorc, magika sets for DK it's a stupidly easy farm on vet even solo, takes 20mins tops to do the whole thing. He only has 4.7m health on vet.

Luckily it's a desirable set so even spamming area chat with lfg BSW farm nets plenty of noob cannon fodder to make it that bit quicker so long as you can carry yourself.

brandonv516 · December 2016

For bsw jewelry use a magicka nb and just run coa 1 for the chests in perma stealth mode. Get the champion passive also prior to.

Savos_Saren · December 2016

@DRXHarbinger @brandonv516

Where does the sword/shields drop? Chests, sub-bosses, or final boss?

brandonv516 · December 2016

jaburns wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger @brandonv516

Where does the sword/shields drop? Chests, sub-bosses, or final boss?

Swords and shields can drop off any boss and any chest including through normal mode. Also slight chance from trash mobs (unreliable).

The final boss is a guaranteed weapon (I believe).

cpuScientist · December 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Ditch sun. It's trash compared to spell weave, pig of a farm if you're after a sword and board but jewlery is easy. Rings come from the banekin mini boss so an easy rinse and repeat for those. Sun doesn't get boosted by igneous whereas spellweave is essentially worth 720SD buffed minimum. It's too good. Even Julianos is better than sun. Plus you can craft the pieces you need in heavy too and dragon guard jewlery which is filthy cheap.

Real quick though sun won't increase your healing much to be honest. Only really the burning embers heal that's it. Any other set would be better. base is good but that's more for DPS, if you just wanna help your healing things like leeching or bahara curse would be better or anything that boosts healing taken, or give you more health. Sun is bad real bad for this.