I'm in a similar boat as the OP, though largely irrespective of ESO - it's something I habitually do in gaming. There's more of a challenge and thrill for me personally in competing against another human being, than against a program which more often than not is designed to let you win. People, on the other hand, offer no such leeway

I've got to 561 CP on the EU XB1 server, (I've since started on the NA server) and I've never done a lot of the PVE stuff. Never did VMA, haven't done most of the public dungeons. Once I'm able to craft most gear (I try to make it a point of using crafted sets only, I'm nothing if not stupidly honourable) the only reason I ever leave Cyrodiil is to go and craft more sets or help a friend through PVE content when needed.

I'm like this in all games that offer PVP - I can't name examples as it's against the forum rules. I'm competitive by nature, unfortunately.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

How is it pointless? It's about competing with other real players and not repetitive npcs who swing their sword the same way every time. If anything, pvp is the real end game content. People grind pve to be ready for pvp, not the other way around. Other than maybe getting vigor and war horn.

@DannyLV702
I don't consider killing ppl over and over "fun" or competitive. If I wanted that, I'd go back to battefield

I consider fun and competitive...working and organizing a group to progress through a 12 man trial or a hard dungeon

I'd consider even a PvE version of Cyrodil which requires strategic co-op amongst multiple 24 man groups fun

This games PvP to me is very boring and if it didn't have siege and keep caps, I'd never have gone there

@NewBlacksmurf
There are extremely high levels of group cooperation with the best pvp guilds/groups..and it is a huge sense of accomplishment to wipe a zerg 3 to 4 times your groups size, to defend a keep for hours while each opposing faction is attacking from different sides, to run a scroll back while getting chased down from one end of the map to the other. There is a lot to offer..seriously, I hated pvp at first, now I love it....it has a steep learning curve, it does not all need to be meta proc builds ( I do not run them and do just fine) . Also you get far less "freak out freddies" on the mic in PvP then in PvE in my experience.

@wazzz56

Those high levels which i honestly tried in a few different guilds. It was organized and it was even cooperation to have 75-100 folks in 4-6 different groups run over Cyrodil.

I'd do it for hours and then I'd just stop.
My idea of fun isn't riding on a mount for 5.10.15 mins at a time.....siege and then rinse and repeat

So I've tried scroll runs
...my idea of fun isn't riding and sprinting / mounted for 5, 10, 20 mins in groups across the map

And there's absolutely no interest in smal PvP or stuff. It's just not fun or enjoyable unless you're farming AP

I went along with them cause I needed shards honestly and wanted to discover the delves


I've had more fun grinding in delves than doing PvP
The only interest I have is for siege but it's gotta be about 1/3rd size of the whole map or it's boring to me
The only thing I want from PvP now is a motif for all factions but there's the AH so no point in going there.

PvP doesn't drop loot that is gearing me up so it's pointless for me.

@NewBlacksmurf
all I took from that is you need higher mount speed..lol jk jk..I respect it

@wazzz56

I don't know how to get more than 60 + rapids so unless flying is a thing I'm maxed out

apparently pver's don't like attempts at humor either.....

I do mainly PvE but like to PvP when I have the time to swap out gear and skills. I occasionally get rude whispers from players, but I figure they are really sad people and I pity them.

I like in PVP the conquest aspect of forts and grand battles. But the lag, screen freeze, and toxic chats had me spend more time in PvE. Also the whole Emperor arrangements proves that the current realm versus realm war setup is flawed to a point where people just grind AP rather than capturing objectives. I can't simply wait for 3-4 hours for another alliance to start an offensive to claim back imperial forts....

I don't like players, who do everything for cheap kills, even using meta proc builds, zerging, running as 5 tanks plus healers with destro ultimates and those think this would be skill.....


Pvp has little skill involved, I do not respect anyone, who uses the standart cheese build. Most of them can't even CC like the buddy you mentioned. The rest hides in heavy armor with 40k life and cries for help, if we PvErs come for a fair fight.


Duells take skill, though I won't duell proc kids. I laugh at them thinking about the incoming nerfs.

Sorry, I prefer to play fair and not get everything handed to me instantly.

lnxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I'm just not a PVP player - every time I do something PVP in MMORPGs I'll fall into a constant nervous/adrenaline rush/whatever it is called state.
It feels just like when you play CS:GO and you're the last man standing fighting a 1 on 1 fight, teammates shouting at you through mics, you're low on health and don't want to lose. Heartbeat is speedy, hands are shaky, palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy, bomb dropped on the ground already, mom's spaghetti

This will go away though after you've done it a fair bit, I had the same and now I calmly taken on multiple people.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I like Cyrodil but i am having very often infinite loading screens which is running me out of patience!

Those loading screens can be horrific but I suppose I should thank them for giving me rest breaks while in Cyrodiil.

It's frustrating, it's stressful, it gives me headaches, it makes me sick and it's full of stupid bollocks that just isn't fun.

pve I can play this game and not have an anxiety attack.

zuto40 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

If you play video games to win and get things instead of entertainment you are doing it wrong

If you tell people how they can and cannot enjoy a game then you are doing it wrong

My own experience has been that PvE players don't get into PvP because the learning curve is very steep and brutal, and there is no one out there to help them learn. The PvP meta game is very different from the PvE meta game, requiring different equipment and different strategies. So their first experiences in PvP will likely be getting ganked, or running in a zone pug while getting wiped by guild groups with half their numbers or less.

And while Zerg PvP guilds suck new(bie) players up like giant anteaters on a termite mound, but they largely don't teach players about PvP as much as they do about doing as they are ordered. On the other side smaller PvP guilds are great, but if they took all new players coming in, they would just turn into zerg guilds themselves.

attackjet wrote: »

This is going to be good, I hope.

I honestly hate pve, and it has nothing to do with the content. OK, maybe a little bit of it has to do with the content. But there is still a lot of content I have yet to do. Completing veteran trials, doing the speed runs on dungeons (I cheated to get the hoarver pet, which I still think is stupid that they let something like that get into the game) I havnt beat maelstrom arena, and havnt beat the two dungeons that are from the most recent dlc.

But none of this content seems even remotely fun. The only reason I like to do Pve is to get cool stuff, I don't go after leaderboards, I don't care about showing off , I just like receiving stuff. Like weapons, costumes, pets and armor, while knowing I achieved something that took time and skill. That's the only reason I do pve. And it seems like alot of the pve content just dosnt offer anything I can't already get. Like the hoarver pet, or the skins from the new dungeons, or even stupid armor.

Why don't I have to do pve to attain these things?

Well, first off, that stupid glitch were you could just make all the enemy's level 10 and pretty much solo any veteran dungeon to get items. And that's why right after the dlc dropped, everyone had the new skins. I heard those dungeons were harder than imperial city prison and white gold tower, and now people with less than 300 cp can get beat these dungeon without dying and do the speed run? No. Maybe some, but not as many people as we see with those skins.

Second off, the armor. Why in the world would I step foot into white gold tower when I can just buy the helmet off the vendor? Leaves me with no choice, though i have completed the dungeon. But it just dosnt make sense. And I can see why people were so mad when they introduced this.

This is the most important. why is pve armor and weapons the best for PvP?

Take a second to take that in.

pve content offers the best and honestly the only good armor in this game.

What? Why would that ever be? Its like this, think about in halo, you have campaign and multiplayer (PvE and PvP). Now, what if you got an advantage from playing the campaign, like better weapons and what not. It would be stupid, right?

Wrong! At least In the eyes of most big mmorpgs.

PvP players absolutely love balance. They love knowing that if they won, its because of skill and not an advantage.

That's why games that make esports are extremely balanced!

But back to the point. Pve sucks for me, and many others. I've had people be extremely toxic experiences with pve players, and though I understand that pvp players can be just as bad, I always try to be nice. I understand if you are new to pvp, and I'm just trying to duel someone and learn my build a bit better.

But then I try to get people to play pvp, and teach them these meta builds, and then they can beat me. Wtf? Like seriously, I had some guy beat me on a templar I tough him how to use and told him exactly what build to use to get the upper advantage in pvp (black rose + viper). And guess what?

This guy didn't even know his to cc break. Tf?

Pvp is not balanced at all but I'm not going to get into that.

I've told you why I don't like pve, and my thoughts on the balance of pve and pvp, so what's your perspective?

Why don't a lot of pve players like pvp?

Is it the same reason most pvp players are getting sick of pvp? Or does it have to do with people being salty when they lose?

Please, leave your opinions below

I don't mind losing.

The reason PvP is rarely fun for me is because it's just a numbers game. In other words: getting teamed up on and slaughtered. And that just isn't very fun. Nor is it very skillful. And that is usually 99% of PvP right there.

Dueling can be fun - so long as I'm actually allowed to move around and play my character and don't spend the whole fight stunned or otherwise incapacitated.

Zyrudin wrote: »

There is one thing the PVP'er fears and so from time to time we see these kinds of posts.

They fear a PVP without a steady conveyor belt of low levels, role players and unaware or unprepared PVE'rs for them to feed on those easy AP's. They fear that Vigor, Warhorn and Barrier are made available by a possible Cyrodiil PVE campaign (just imagine the terror!), offering no reason for fresh meat to visit. They fear a stale community made up of the same known PVP veteran characters that already know all the meta and all the tricks, to the point where they don't really work anymore on anyone.

This is why it is hardcore PVP'ers who always try to pull and convince PVE'rs to PVP and rarely the other way around. That is why PVP'ers always try to tease and taunt PVE'rs to get them to Cyrodiil.

PVE'rs have all they need to play (casual overworld, dungeons, trials, etc), requiring only cooperation from other players for end game content. PVP'ers, on the other hand, need to "feed" on other players, because that is what PVP is set up to be right now.

In the beginning it was about the alliances, it was really about winning the campaign.
Now it is only about getting the kills to feed on AP's.

Have you guys watched that Baguette Report video, quite funny, that satirizes the constant fighting on the bridge between Alessia and Sejanus, while ignoring the rest of Cyrodiil? It is satire, but it does bring up the core of current PVP campaigns mentality. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE

@Zyrudin

Your post is fairly off base.....from my perspective anyway. I ,and the people I PvP with would much rather have a long battle with skilled players than preying on weak PvEr's. YEs I want more people in Cyro, but not for easy kills, I want more people to get skilled so we can have more good fights. The issue I, and many others have, is the complaining about being forced to PvP for things like vigor etc compared to the grind that it takes for undaunted etc.....your post is extremely presumptive and makes some pretty gross generalizations..and I am not a soley PvP guy

Browiseth wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Honestly it's pointless.

It's literally pointless.
Let's look at what PvP provides that's useful if you don't PvP........

I'll wait.....

.......and I'm not saying entering Cyrodil or IC for shards
The only thing I can see are skill points but if you don't use any PvP skill lines....it's literally pointless

So my whole argument has been since day one.....because it's pointless just create PvE campaigns or expect ppl to always stay out.

If you play video games to win and get things instead of entertainment you are doing it wrong

If you tell people how they can and cannot enjoy a game then you are doing it wrong

@Browiseth
Respectfully, I think the OP is posing a question to the community so hopefully my comment is taken as my response and nothing otherwise.
That response from me above is my point of view. Further comments from me in this thread give more context to my reasons for not liking, choosing or continuing to join PvP in this game. Those are responses to those I've quoted who asked or commented to me .....I'm not suggesting what you've commented me to suggest.

Nothing I wrote suggests that I'm telling anyone else how or what they should enjoy. I think you're reading things not written and your comment comes off as if you're suggesting that I'm saying things I haven't.

I'd also say I'm not doing anything wrong as I've tried it my way and their ways. I don't like it and even have offered suggestions to what I would like without impacting or changing what other PvP players like in Cyrodil and Imperial City

Takuto wrote: »

My own experience has been that PvE players don't get into PvP because the learning curve is very steep and brutal, and there is no one out there to help them learn. The PvP meta game is very different from the PvE meta game, requiring different equipment and different strategies. So their first experiences in PvP will likely be getting ganked, or running in a zone pug while getting wiped by guild groups with half their numbers or less.

And while Zerg PvP guilds suck new(bie) players up like giant anteaters on a termite mound, but they largely don't teach players about PvP as much as they do about doing as they are ordered. On the other side smaller PvP guilds are great, but if they took all new players coming in, they would just turn into zerg guilds themselves.

@Takuto
you, my new friend, get it....

Biro123 wrote: »

Interesting thread..

It seems there are a lot of misconceptions around from both sides here.. I don't get why people think the PVP community is toxic - I've never seen that apart from the odd hate whisper from the odd annoyed kid who just lost. I think its largely a mindset thing.. I've seen posts here effectively amounting to the view that getting ganked is bullying? Odd.. I adapted and built to handle most 1-player ganks - On the odd occasions that the gank worked and it wasn't down to me making a mistake - I've often sent the guy a messages complimenting him on the hit - then we've often chatted about how he did it etc..
There's nothing toxic there.. Bullying? If 2 boxers willingly step in the ring - is the winner now a bully?

There's no misconception. Its a bit darker than that. I've been online gaming for the better part of twenty years. In that time I've played just about every kind of game, both with PVP and PVE at least what you all would consider in those terms. Its taken a long while to understand what drives players to do both.

At the very basics, PVP oriented players like competition. But its more than that. They want competition with consequences. You see many of these PVE players that say they hate PVP, that say PVPers are 'toxic' are merely trying to pass judgement in order to avoid it themselves.

These players play in PVE because there is no consequence. They will take a gathering node or chest while you're busy in combat with a mob. They'll post damage numbers in a dungeon. They'll flaunt gear and achievements. But they avoid direct confrontations that would be the consequence of such actions.

To put it shortly, they would engage in PVP if they could without any form of retaliation. They do it all the time in PVE. They engage in Player Versus Player actions such as stealing nodes but they know there can be no consequence for doing so.

That's one group of them. The other is a bit more passive.

I'm going to quote someone from this thread. I am purposely leaving their name out because I do NOT want them associated with negativity. They explained the actual honest truth why they don't PVP:

I'm just not a PVP player - every time I do something PVP in MMORPGs I'll fall into a constant nervous/adrenaline rush/whatever it is called state.

Many players have this issue. They physically cannot PVP. The adrenaline, the anxiety, the person to person confrontation actually makes them physically ill. When fighting a mob out in the world, or even a boss in a dungeon with a group. The encounter isn't personal. There's no intelligence, there's no person judging you, thinking about you, there's no soul behind it, no sentience. It doesn't trigger anything.

But in PVP its the opposite. This player is attacking you. He has malicious intentions for you. He wants to beat you. That's the feeling and the perception. They can't help feeling that. We both know in reality a PVP player doesn't have malicious intent. Its just numbers, an obstacle (well for most of us anyway). But either way, these players get anxious facing a confrontation, its a person that is engaging them and their fight or flight goes off.

This happens to PVPers as well by the way. This is why some react badly under certain circumstances. This is where you get the instance of the '12 year old yelling at you'. Its not a 12 year old. Its probably a 32 year old. Maturity has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with fight or flight. That person engaged in an personal confrontation and they lost.

Its not personal to everyone. But it is to some.

But this is also why the PVP community is seen as toxic in these games. Despite there being a lack of evidence to support it. How can two players engage each other in a test of skill, wit, and will without being bullies, psychopaths or misanthropes? The same way we watch boxing, soccer, football, basketball, and other sports. Or even play those sports ourselves.



I can only speak for myself. But when I've PVP'd in the past, its never with the intention of ruining my opponents day. I simply have a goal in mind and they are either in the way or not. They are either an obstacle or not. I may use low down dirty tactics (but will never cheat/hack), and maybe even superior numbers if available. But I totally expect the opposition to do the same for me.

I thrive in competition and do well with confrontations. I don't take them personally. If someone manages to beat me, I learn from it and come back with a counter. It doesn't do me well to win continuously. I can't learn by winning. I can't feel engaged by dominating my opponents. So I need them to do all the low down dirty stuff right back so I can feel like I'm getting some sort of competition. There has to be stakes and there has to be consequences. To put it shortly, I'd rather barely lose an engagement than have a dominating victory.

Don't get me wrong. I will enjoy a hard fought victory. I will even enjoy a dominating one if its part of a bigger fight. See I'm not talking about merely taking one fort or resource node. I'm talking about an entire day to day fight. The pushes, the pulls, the drives forwards and the setbacks. I don't enjoy games like COD or BF much because the matches are.. short and contrived. You drop in and in 10-30 minutes you're done. There's a test of skill. But not a test of will or determination. Use of tactics but no strategy. Its also why I do not like Battlegrounds in other MMOs.

But that's getting off topic.

There's some weird elitism in PVE too.. seem plenty of messages - in zone or guild looking for people to run certain dungeons.. must be CP350+ etc.. I'm thinking.. I've solo'd that one, but aren't good enough to do it in a grp with you..?

Many don't realize that the questing, the story, and the overworld stuff despite taking some time to do, is NOT where you spend the majority of your time. They think that in this solo mode of play which has a lack of drama and elitism speaks for all of PVE. It doesn't. Its the part of the game both PVP and PVE players work through in about a day or two worth of playtime.

I've 6 days played on my recent character. 4 of which has been spent in group oriented content and yes PVE'ers get very elitist at times. You don't have to go far, look at the thread saying they will boot people under 30 for normals. Like seriously you need to be 30 to do Fungal Grove and the like? I've seen people solo that at 15.

Mostly groups are fine. My biggest issues are healers who don't pay attention or get complacent. That's usually fixed after a wipe normally. But I had an interesting run about a week ago that was ridiculous. It involved the first boss in Imperial City Prison where the harvester comes out.

What was happening is the tank would taunt the harvester and tank both the harvester and boss at the same time. Being in melee with the harvester subjects you to a nasty attack where they send 3 waves along the ground. Well the tank was being hit by all 3 being that close and getting one shot for 45k damage (15k x3). I suggested that the tank not taunt and the DPS just focus it ourselves with the agro on us so it fires the attack away from the tank.

Sound plan right? It was a tactic a group of friends of mine and I came up with when we ran this dungeon for the first time when we came back to the game. Worked in other PUG groups before as well. However the other DPS was just adamantly against the idea. Of course his response was DPS the harvester down faster. Sure.. if you had the damage to down it before it does the attack, you literally have 5-10 seconds to pull it off. But everyone in the group, myself and the DPS included was under 50. Like this guy was making personal attacks at me for making the suggestion.

Either way we finally got it (when the tank decided to let me have the harvest on the last attempt so I could direct the attack away, at least he was listening if not speaking). But there no reason for that person to be a jerk over a suggestion. And I'm pretty diplomatic and respectful in dungeons. I reserve my frustrations towards people (and you will get them in PUGs) to my TS server.

But this sort of thing happens quite often in PUGs where all four members aren't grouped It always seems there's that 'one guy'. So the idea that PVE'rs are not elitists or jerks from time to time compared to PVP.. is false. Very false. At least in PVP it will be like one or two in the whole campaign. Not one out of four.

I don't get the 'PVP is pointless cos there's no reward' view either.. Surely playing is its own reward? You don't have a game of pool with your mates at the pub because you know that you'll get to take home one of the balls if you win do you? You play simply for the fun of playing. I tend to think that PVE is the less fun part - because it needs all these incentives to get people to do it. That's like work that is - you only do it for the money - not cos you like it.

For me, PVP is endgame. I loved the single-player, levelling up storyline and didn't just skip it to get to 'endgame'. I enjoyed it. But I don't like repeating it. Same for dungeons - I don't like repeating them. And 'Dailies' in MMO's.. Whoever thought of them must have been some strange sadistic womble. I love movies, but there's only so many times you can re-watch the same one.. But PVP is like playing any team sport - some seem to see it as repetitive -but really, you never know how its going to play out - and you can play it in so many different ways too.

I had to bold a part that stood out. Its like players (and its both PVP and PVE) don't play games to have fun anymore. I used to play through Super Mario Bros. 3 alot when I was younger. Everyone's used the double warp whistle, but sometimes you just want to play the game to play it and will play through all 8 worlds. There was no special ending. Not 'gear' to grind. Just going from world to world because I wanted to play the game.

And then I hear this BS about how games have evolved to be incentive based. That's BS. I enjoy games like Space Engineers because there is no incentive, I just play for my own goals and achievements. I don't need a special colored text on a piece of gear to tell me I'm doing well.

You nailed it when you called PVP a team sport. You're absolutely right. That is the draw of PVP for many, you don't know how the next match up will play out. But I think the current generation doesn't quite understand that. I don't think they went to the local park and played basketball or some other team sport. I'm not talking about school leagues or other organized stuff. Just a group of peeps at the court playing a spontaneous game. Do people even do this anymore? Admittedly its been 25 years since I last saw it.