Vet Maelstrom Arena Needs a Hard Mode

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

No more rng. Beating an rng dungeon is not skill, it's luck like winning the lottery. Vma has enough deaths caused by rng, it doesn't need more.

That is just not a true statement. The only real RNG in the Arena is Round 7, and even that can be heavily mitigated by carefully choosing what add you kill during the boss fight. If one is standing next to a poison mushroom and one isnt, well choose wisely. I havent died to that mechanic in MANY many runs.

Now, if you are calling lag RNG, then I suppose you have something there. But otherwise, people complaining about that much RNG are missing mechanics.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It's funny to me how some people think adding an extra mode would take anything away from them.

I made this thread as a brainstorm for hard mode ideas, and propose it as a way to cure the RNG disease that is VMA. We have had some good ones.

This way people can earn a vma weapon through skill, not a 1/368th chance.

Maybe give every flawless run a choice of weapon with the trait you want.

I agree with you on that one.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

Never seen that happen 3 times in a row. The pushback is that if you are actually letting a third ghost spawn on the final phase, you have a DPS problem.

Well when the poison spawns after the minder puts his shield around you and explodes immediately, that's pure rng. Happened to me a few days ago, spoiling another potential flawless run.

In order to kill voriak before the third ghost and hence first spectral explosion, that's some ungodly dps, like over 4k spell/weapon damage and over 70% crit. It's not really required to have THAT much, but if course that dps makes it easier.

The first instance is the only RNG death I can really admit exists in the arena. The point I was making is that during that fight, you have the choice if which add to kill and which to use for the shield. Sometimes, they are both bad options and you are f'ed either way. Most of the time, however, one is in a much safer spot than the other. If you always make the right choice, it is actually pretty rare that this should kill you. But yes, sometimes it spawns and you are dead to RNG, but it's not that common in my experience. Usually when I get poisoned under the shield, the spore was already there.

As for the second part, do not equate stats with DPS. Sure they impact that, but my sorc does not have stats like you are suggesting. On a magic sorc, I can usually do it by the second ghost, and on a stam sorc or stam DK, I can do it in one. Burst like that is about being on top of all your DoTs and Ultimate, and committing to the burn. The only class I honestly struggle to do it before the third ghost is Magic DK. Again, not trying to toot my own horn, but the point is that it is really unlucky if the boss actually ports right on top of all 3 ghosts in a row. I have never seen it happen. What is more likely is that you get caught out of position and he gets all 3. That I have certainly had happen, but I am not going to call it RNG. It is however, almost certainly a wipe as you pointed out.

TLDR: Yes RNG deaths happen in this arena, but I believe the vast majority of the time, it really was more a question of missing the mechanic.

Also, if it makes you feel better, Round 7 ruined a host of flawless runs for me before I got it. It will happen when you least expect it. My advice, if you do get through 7 with no death, grab every damn sigil in the arena from there on out. haha

Prabooo · December 2016

a) Naked
b) 0 CP
c) Using potions with negative effects
d) No undaunted, no shields, no passives from any skill tree whatsoever
e) No weapons, run it fist fighting mode
f) Eyes closed and hands tied to the back

That I call a hard mode.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Vet Maelstrom is amazing end-game content. The time, persistence and dedication it takes to be able to beat it is astronomical compered any other single player content I have ever seen.

The first 10-20 are a rush of what weapon am I going to get, has all this hard work paid off?

After 40 runs you start to remember the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

People can put in hundreds of hours to get a single weapon, and still not be deemed "good enough" by the RNG gods.

I have quit running VMA and am using that time to play other games.

Clearly mastering this content was not enough to be reward by ZOS. They need to Add a mode, no matter how difficult that actually rewards players for their work.

I am suggesting a hard mode that gives a player a choice of the weapon they have earned.

One of these or a combination should work fine:

1. A ten percent across the board buff.

2. Going flawless.

3. An un-killable shade that follows your whole arena and does 2k dps to you.

4. Add 1-3 extra adds to every single stage.

5. Casting the same skill more then once in a row, causes 3k damage to you

Interested in hearing your hard mode ideas.

Cheers!

I can tell you're the vMA master, but oh.. you're killing me slowly, man! Current vMA is still quite rough for us little people.

mr_wazzabi · December 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about RNG for the spawns, not just the reward?

That way it would vary, and could not be memorized.

No more rng. Beating an rng dungeon is not skill, it's luck like winning the lottery. Vma has enough deaths caused by rng, it doesn't need more.

That is just not a true statement. The only real RNG in the Arena is Round 7, and even that can be heavily mitigated by carefully choosing what add you kill during the boss fight. If one is standing next to a poison mushroom and one isnt, well choose wisely. I havent died to that mechanic in MANY many runs.

Now, if you are calling lag RNG, then I suppose you have something there. But otherwise, people complaining about that much RNG are missing mechanics.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

It's funny to me how some people think adding an extra mode would take anything away from them.

I made this thread as a brainstorm for hard mode ideas, and propose it as a way to cure the RNG disease that is VMA. We have had some good ones.

This way people can earn a vma weapon through skill, not a 1/368th chance.

Maybe give every flawless run a choice of weapon with the trait you want.

I agree with you on that one.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In keeping with the tradition of the other hardmodes in the game....

Before Voriak spawns, the 4 powerup sigils will appear as a special type of red sigil. If you activate any of them, it activates hard mode. After a few seconds, they will turn back to normal and Voriak will spawn.

As for hard mode, just increase boss health, eliminate the gold ghosts, and have healers keep spawning throughout. Activating hard mode will limit the traits on the final chest to the original three vMA traits and give you two weapons instead of one.

No gold ghosts is actually a good thing. No more nrg wipes in round 9. I hate it when the ghost spawns right where voriak teleports 3 times in a row. It's a no win scenario and guaranteed wipe.

Never seen that happen 3 times in a row. The pushback is that if you are actually letting a third ghost spawn on the final phase, you have a DPS problem.

Well when the poison spawns after the minder puts his shield around you and explodes immediately, that's pure rng. Happened to me a few days ago, spoiling another potential flawless run.

In order to kill voriak before the third ghost and hence first spectral explosion, that's some ungodly dps, like over 4k spell/weapon damage and over 70% crit. It's not really required to have THAT much, but if course that dps makes it easier.

The first instance is the only RNG death I can really admit exists in the arena. The point I was making is that during that fight, you have the choice if which add to kill and which to use for the shield. Sometimes, they are both bad options and you are f'ed either way. Most of the time, however, one is in a much safer spot than the other. If you always make the right choice, it is actually pretty rare that this should kill you. But yes, sometimes it spawns and you are dead to RNG, but it's not that common in my experience. Usually when I get poisoned under the shield, the spore was already there.

As for the second part, do not equate stats with DPS. Sure they impact that, but my sorc does not have stats like you are suggesting. On a magic sorc, I can usually do it by the second ghost, and on a stam sorc or stam DK, I can do it in one. Burst like that is about being on top of all your DoTs and Ultimate, and committing to the burn. The only class I honestly struggle to do it before the third ghost is Magic DK. Again, not trying to toot my own horn, but the point is that it is really unlucky if the boss actually ports right on top of all 3 ghosts in a row. I have never seen it happen. What is more likely is that you get caught out of position and he gets all 3. That I have certainly had happen, but I am not going to call it RNG. It is however, almost certainly a wipe as you pointed out.

TLDR: Yes RNG deaths happen in this arena, but I believe the vast majority of the time, it really was more a question of missing the mechanic.

Also, if it makes you feel better, Round 7 ruined a host of flawless runs for me before I got it. It will happen when you least expect it. My advice, if you do get through 7 with no death, grab every damn sigil in the arena from there on out. haha

Yea i was grabbing sigils like crazy on my tries. And yes, he DID teleport to ALL 3 yellow ghosts on one of my recent runs, hence the soul churn wipe.

Btw I'm running it on my mageplar tank, so dps is a bit slower, but i have no problem with any of the content barring bs rng and sometimes stupid mistakes.

Ravena · December 2016

No. Stop it. You want more difficulty, go run it naked or something. Don't ruin it for us casuals.

Mettaricana · December 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'd we only need hard mode for the final boss. Frankly what you proposed will just make the arena longer and more unbearable of a grind.
I doubt they will do anything like a hard mode. So if anything I think that we should get the type of weapon we want in a random trait after a flawless run. Like Fa-nuit Hen asking us which type of weapon we wish to wield: SnB, DW, 2H, Bow, Resto or Destro, similar to the Fighters' Guild quest line. That way we can at least get a far better chance at a drop. We'll still have the rubbish traits, but at least we'll have a weapon type that we actually want. It will also push people to actually try to do the flawless run, rather than just sticking with a clear and the Stormproof title.

All of it would probably be prosperous or trainning knowing zos

IronCrystal · December 2016

Ravena wrote: »

No. Stop it. You want more difficulty, go run it naked or something. Don't ruin it for us casuals.

Do you not understand the purpose of a "hard mode'? That by definition means it does not effect those who want to do it as is.

penek · December 2016

Paneross wrote: »

And after Super Duper Hard Mode they will release Insane Ultra HD Remix Turbo Veteran Maelstrom Arena Deluxe Edition.

Ultra HD Remix Turbo Veteran Maelstrom Arena Deluxe Edition+ (they just add + at the end)

Elara_Northwind · December 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

rounds 1-6 are ridiculously easy once you have done them over and over...

For the first run, and maybe 2 to 3 runs more, arena 9 seems to be the hardest one. The next 10 - 30 runs, arena 7 will seem like the hardest when going for the first flawless, until you master the RNG in there. After that, and that also goes for people with 1000+ runs, arena 5 will always be the hardest (even if 99 out of 100 runs are flawless), because this is where you are most vulnerable to performance issues. Lag spike while the boss fears you and your character is running through the water while being shot at by adds? GG. I actually don't remember dying in any other arena in my last 100+ runs.

[/quote]

I got flawless conquerer today! Yay!

Now I really DO want a hardmode, I need a new challenge

BlazingDynamo · December 2016

No CP. There's your hard mode.

Lukums1 · December 2016

Pretty sure I have a video completing it with 4 deaths and 14k HP... and 24k STAM?

I called that hard mode...

Basically (run with no food).

robvs · December 2016

Unfortunately I have never seen ZOS comment on Maelstrom loot suggestions. Except one time saying the loot table isn't rigged..

NoFlash · December 2016

I wouldnt mind a hardmode if its 100% double drop

KingYogi415 · December 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Any plans to alter VMA drop rates in the future???

Thanks!

Rataroto · December 2016

sure, why not

GawdSB · December 2016

Can't even beat VMA and everyone is in here talking how easy it is. lmaoo

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2016

Give it an easy mode

kieso · December 2016

Or they could I dunno remove the RNG aspect?

Mojmir · December 2016

You want hardmode? Play on your laptop with wifi and walk as far as you can during round 9.

FriedEggSandwich · December 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

You want hardmode? Play on your laptop with wifi and walk as far as you can during round 9.

Tried that on holiday in france recently on my sandybridge laptop with gt840m and 1 bar of terrible wifi. Had a ping of 500+ for the whole time and normal maelstrom was actually hard. I think I died about 4 times. VMA would have been impossible I think.

Molec · December 2016

penek wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

And after Super Duper Hard Mode they will release Insane Ultra HD Remix Turbo Veteran Maelstrom Arena Deluxe Edition.

Darude - Sandstorm Ultra HD Remix Turbo Veteran Maelstrom Arena Deluxe Edition+ (they just add + at the end)

I fixed that for you

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2016

You need a hard mode!