Miat's PVP alerts.

Bumblebeelzebub · December 2016

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

its not cheating for me until ZOS will say different

"I have no opinion other than that which ZOS bestows upon me."

Riejael · December 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

The thing is telling you how many players around you are in stealth, when, by definition, you are not supposed to know about players in stealth. It tells you when someone is charging an attack at you from stealth, when by definition, you are not supposed to know someone is attacking you from stealth. It tells you how many players are around you, including those who are not in stealth, even though you can't see them. While it doesn't tell you where they are, so can't be used as a positioning radar, it still acts as an early warning radar that something may be about to happen.

This happens all the time in Planetside 2. When I open the map in that game and mouse over a base, it tells me how many friendlies and how many enemy are in the area. If I'm guarding a base with 3 friends (4 friendlies total) and the base reports 100% players as being friendly, I know there is no stealthed enemies.

If it drops to 80% friendly and 20% enemy, I know one enemy has entered the area. He doesn't even have to be using an ability for me to detect this. This is apart of their API as well.

To be honest, I doubt you will see a fix to that part of the addon. I think ZOS's concern for the Addon (and make no mistake, they have concern about it), is the fact that it notifies a target of a channeled/casted attack. They'll likely squelch that part of the API which is actually pretty easy to do.

It will have a side effect of nerfing the other aspects of Miat's addon since it will be less information to let you know who is in the area by abilities being used. But it won't negate it entirely.

Knowing this, everyone has a decision to make:

1. Continue as normal.
2. Stop PVPing
3. Quit Entirely.

My advice, make one of those decisions and move on. You're opinion/agendas will not change others' views. So why bother? Feedback? There's only one way to show feedback on something as polarizing as this issue, Buy Something if you like it, quit if you don't.

kwisatz · December 2016

its not cheating for me until ZOS will say different

Maybe it's not "cheating" like would be using some external well known engine, but it is taking an unfair advantage and breaking intented game mechanics.

Bumblebeelzebub · December 2016

Definition of cheat

transitive verb

1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>

From: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat

The "artifice" in our case is Miat's PvP Alerts, which allows players to subvert the counterplay required to fend off stealth attacks. Using this add-on is literally cheating.

Enslaved · December 2016

Cheating. Absolute bs tier addon.
If Zos does not ban this and users of it, there is no point in playing anything but destro zergs.

Vurian97 · December 2016

This add-on is just a ESO version of the Spy add-on for WoW essentially. Spy made for interesting World PvP on WoW, because stealthers knew they could be caught before-hand, but if they acted KNOWING that, their gank still worked.

hobicabobjob · December 2016

Feels like cheating. On the other hand, ZOS said they will not be taking action against players using this, at this time.

gard · December 2016

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Addon author chiming in:)

First let me thank @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and other members of ZOS team who reverse engineered my addon and laid out what exactly it does in a clear manner.

I also want to say i do appreciate ANY feedback regarding the addon and myself. Good or bad. Just please try to refrain from personal insults and keep the discussion in a civil manner. Thank you.

Now let me comment on the addon, my intentions and the result in a Q&A style:

Q: How this addon came to be?

A: In the current state of stealth ganks in PVP right now, unfortunately we're facing the situation when no amount of crit resistance will save you from a guy one-shotting you from stealth if you're running medium or light armor. At some point i had a thought that i would be awesome if ZOS changed the stealth mechanics to make channeled abilities to get you out of stealth at the beginning of their cast instead of when they hit something.

I made some tests and realized that the game already provides the event for when the attack starts. The event contains full information about the attack including source and target names.

Knowing that making an addon what pops a notification on this event was trivial. At this point i already realized this gonna be big, but i didn't know yet how big it would end up being.

But i still had to figure out how to know if he was in stealth, while charging this attack. I did more tests i found out a way to do that. That way though opened a 'Pandora Box'. I figured out that know i can get much more information than just whether the guy is in stealth or not. And so i did:)

After i did all that i realized that even though i know the name of the attacker and a bunch of other info about him i can't get any information out of the name itself. I don't know his faction, class - basically nothing besides his name. Thus, quite naturally i came up with the concept of database. The database was the link between 'somebody' doing actions in the world and a particular person having char name, account name etc etc.

Only the combination of all these discoveries allowed me to build the addon the way i wanted.

And here it is.

Q: Do you find any of the features of the addon unfair?

A: No i don't. I made them exactly to make the pvp environment both more clear and more fair. This is coming from a guy mainly playing stam nb.

Q: Did you know many people would be against this addon when you open it to public?

A: I definitely did. This addon changes the way people experience Cyrodiil quite drastically. What i see on the forums now was expected (besdies detailed post of @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ). In my mind the addon makes Cyrodiil a better pvp experience. Your definition of 'better' might be different. I accept that.

Q: Did you expect ZOS to make some actions to prevent some or all the features of the addon to work in the result of the complaints?

A: Yes i did. I wasn't an easy decision to make this addon public. Not because i wanted to keep the addon for myself. I didn't and i don't. I released it as soon as it was ready and thoroughly tested.

The only real reason for my hesitation was that i was afraid of knee-jerk reaction from developers. If i were them i'd disable the addon on the spot and only THEN started the internal discussion on what parts of it can be allowed:)

Q: Why did you released it then?

A: The addon is supposed to make the playfield between stealthers and non-stealthers more even. Not the playfield between me and everybody else:) I truly want everybody to use it and enjoy its perks.

Basically i'd be happy if ZOS added some (all) of its features to the base ui (or allowed it to be). Can we do it, dear ZOS?:)

I agree that stealth detection feature will be over the top IF and ONLY IF ZOS fixes stealth ganks and stealth in general. In my personal opinion attacking from stealth is huge advantage in itself. Now add oneshots to the picture and stealths becomes out of control. And this is what we have now in pvp. This is my opinion. I'm aware there can be other opinions. This is fine.

I implemented the features the addon has because i personally wanted them to be in the game. I find them fun and engaging. Other people might disagree. That's fine. This is my vision.

Q: What would you do if/when they ban it?

A: I will make some other addon if the game will still be engaging enough for me. I'd be happy if we can find a happy medium here though, where some features will be allowed to stay. But i'm prepared to 'accept my fate':)

In conclusion i want to say i you all:)

Dear ZOS, please continue to make this game the way you do, so people like me still manage to have fun in it after years of playing. You all rock (even Wrobel)!

Miat

Aka: I didn't like how the developers made their game, so I decided to change it.

Wow, what an ego

He didn't say that at all.

He didn't say it specifically here. However, here's Dorrino's statement to me from our (public) conversation esoui.com:

"You will know only 2 things: who they are and that they are 'nearby'. This information will not help you to find them. This information will not reveal them. This particular feature is technically equivalent to a 'claivoyance' spell, which unfortunately is not in the game.

In my personal opinion this feature makes pvp a much better place. It's fine to disagree though."

Addon author's own words.

Link to the thread there, for context: http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1545-MiatsPVPAlerts.html#comments

gard · December 2016

Riejael wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

This addon crosses the line, in my opinion. There's a difference between convenience addons and the ones that give a clear advantage in PvP. This is the latter. I would never use something like this, and knowing that many people in PvP will be is pretty discouraging.

I'm sure there are other "things" players are doing in PvP which are probably worse. But as far as supported addons go, I do hope ZOS adjusts the API to make things like this impossible.

I'm curious to know whj you think this addon crosses the line.

Simple. Because it gives players information that they clearly were never intended to see.

I'll turn the question around on you:

How do you justify an addon that notifies me about someone who I am otherwise unaware of going into stealth?

Lieblingsjunge · December 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Let us know as soon as that changes, if it does pls!

Bumblebeelzebub · December 2016

gard wrote: »

He didn't say it specifically here. However, here's Dorrino's statement to me from our (public) conversation esoui.com:

"You will know only 2 things: who they are and that they are 'nearby'. This information will not help you to find them. This information will not reveal them. This particular feature is technically equivalent to a 'claivoyance' spell, which unfortunately is not in the game.

Knowing who someone is (i.e. class, gear, abilities, approximate stats, etc.) and that they're nearby are the only things that could lead you to detect them (aside from their own errors). Paying attention to this kind of information in combat is a part of the counterplay when dealing with stealthed opponents. It's a big part of PvP in general.

Anyone who is concerned about balance or stability in PvP should be very concerned about the status of this add-on. It sets a precedent for users to essentially create abilities that were never a part of the game.

GaldorP · December 2016

Tested this addon when I went to Cyrodiil to get Alliance Rank 6 for Caltrops on an alt, a few days ago.

The ability to see when someone is starting a channeling attack on you from stealth, more than a second before any projectile is even launched at you, gives players who use this addon a huge advantage over those who don't.
When I was operating a ballista I could see when someone tried to use Snipe on me. So I could just quickly press alt and then block, break line of sight, or dodge roll to avoid any serious harm. This addon makes using Snipe from stealth 100% useless.

On top of that, I could see the name of players who were stealthed nearby. So whenever I saw the name of any well-known ganker I knew I had to be careful and could simply go elsewhere to avoid being ganked. This feature, as well, gives users of this addon a huge advantage in PvP over those who don't use it.

I hope ZOS will make a change soon to counteract those two features of the addon. If they don't then everyone who's not using this addon in Cyrodiil on PC right now is putting themselves at a disadvantage.

LjAnimalchin · December 2016

This thread scares me.

Malmai · December 2016

This will go down as fast as group dmg which was ok.

timidobserver · December 2016

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

I took this from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom post : "you are not notified of exactly where the player is.This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position."

So...again...why so much rage???

This is not cheating anyway...

This isn't even close to the point. If I know for a fact that an enemy is stealthed nearby, I will behave differently. I'll put buffs up, spam AOE to sniff them out, and dodgeroll when I'm alerted of their impending attacks. These are all precautions that prevent stealth builds from executing their only advantage in PvP.

Stealth is an intended part of this game. This add-on allows you to subvert all of the counterplay required to fend off a stealth attack. Using add-ons to do the work of countering a legitimate and intended playstyle is cheating.

I personally think that the add-on is over the top. As long as it doesn't harm other add-ons they need to remove access to a lot of this data.

That said. There really isn't a lot significant counter play when dealing with a skilled ganker. If you are being duo ganked there is even less counter play. Basically, your counter play options are RML(only marginally effective), gearing up as a troll tank, rolling in a large enough group that most smart gankers are discouraged

gard · December 2016

Duukar wrote: »

Mountain33r wrote: »

So I checked it out, played with this addon last night. Everyone spewing doom and gloom is just ignorant. Test if for yourself, there is nothing game breaking here. Actually @mtwiggz is right the only thing really helpful is the player counts.

Showing names of stealth players on your screen; it does show if someone has stealth near you recently in which you may not have seen because you were focused on something else?. Not the location of them. Also if your volume is up, you can actually hear people cast abilities while stealth unless I am getting some kind of magic, which was before using this addon. There were times last night, that no names were the list and I got ganked by a player in stealth near me, happen a lot actually. No indication or any sort of heads up.

It's just good information, but nothing game breaking, least from what I tested. Unless there is something I am missing (MAGIC).

So are you seriously implying that knowing the second someone begins a gank attempt on you isnt a HUGE advantage??????

You can literally set it up so it plays a unique sound when someone is attacking you from stealth!!!

Exactly! Either the attack start event from abilities like lethal arrow need to be removed from the api, or those abilities need to be made instant cast.

gard · December 2016

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

@AzraelKrieg wrote :

The issue is that most of this information, though permissible by the API that ZOS has made, is hidden game data that could lead to later exploitation. It also seeks to remove one aspect of PvP play just because the maker of the addon was unhappy about being ganked. The other aspects of it such as the kill counter are fine as there are other addons that do it. It's the naming of players that have stealthed up from opposing factions in the area around you as well counting how many players from all factions are around you that is causing the issue. The fact it will alert you when there is a channel cast attack about going off to allow you time to react is also an issue. No one should have that information.[/quote]

I took this from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom post : "you are not notified of exactly where the player is. This addon does not add a little blip to your map or compass, and does not give you an overlay that points out specifically where players are. This addon is not radar, a Doppler, or any other means of giving away another player’s exact position."

So...again...why so much rage???

This is not cheating anyway....[/quote]

Someone in stealth (who you are not aware of) begins a lethal arrow attack. Thanks to the addon, you block, dodgeroll, whatever and avoid or mitigate the attack.

You really don't see a problem with that? All righty then.
^^
Part of the problem.

Bumblebeelzebub · December 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

I personally think that the add-on is over the top. As long as it doesn't harm other add-ons they need to remove access to a lot of this data.

That said. There really isn't a lot significant counter play when dealing with a skilled ganker. If you are being duo ganked there is even less counter play. Basically, your counter play options are RML(only marginally effective), gearing up as a troll tank, rolling in a large enough group that most smart gankers are discouraged

Fair point!

In my personal experience gankers only manage to kill me about half of the time. The rest end up cloaking and scuttling off after a few attacks. However, if I was warned every time someone was casting Snipe on me, that number would drop dramatically. Also, if that person failed to kill me and cloaked, this add-on would alert me that they were still in the area with significantly less than full stamina. In that case I'd buff up and hunt them down (Magelight, AoE spam, etc.). They'd never get the opportunity to try again.

Killing from stealth is about choosing your targets carefully, waiting for the right moment to strike (without alerting the rest of your targets group), and getting out alive. It's a challenging and rewarding playstyle that will be completely obliterated by this add-on.

kadar · December 2016

Something I've gathered from reading most of the comments in this thread:

Part of Miat's rationale for introducing the stealth features of this addon was to "balance" stealth play. The overall power of stealth play is clouded by the separate issue of stacking damage proc sets. I hope ZOS takes this into consideration when they go about balancing things.

ValarMorghulis1896 · December 2016

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

Killing from stealth is about choosing your targets carefully, waiting for the right moment to strike (without alerting the rest of your targets group), and getting out alive. It's a challenging and rewarding playstyle that will be completely obliterated by this add-on.

That is the quintessence in just one sentence. My poor sniper stamblade will be superfluous soon

timidobserver · December 2016

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I personally think that the add-on is over the top. As long as it doesn't harm other add-ons they need to remove access to a lot of this data.

That said. There really isn't a lot significant counter play when dealing with a skilled ganker. If you are being duo ganked there is even less counter play. Basically, your counter play options are RML(only marginally effective), gearing up as a troll tank, rolling in a large enough group that most smart gankers are discouraged

Fair point!

In my personal experience gankers only manage to kill me about half of the time. The rest end up cloaking and scuttling off after a few attacks. However, if I was warned every time someone was casting Snipe on me, that number would drop dramatically. Also, if that person failed to kill me and cloaked, this add-on would alert me that they were still in the area with significantly less than full stamina. In that case I'd buff up and hunt them down (Magelight, AoE spam, etc.). They'd never get the opportunity to try again.

Killing from stealth is about choosing your targets carefully, waiting for the right moment to strike (without alerting the rest of your targets group), and getting out alive. It's a challenging and rewarding playstyle that will be completely obliterated by this add-on.

This is because most gankers are fotm/bad. Without being a full troll tank the good ones, that aren't just imitating the latest fotm, are very difficult to survive even if you know if you know they are in your general vicinity. This is just multiplied when dealing with 2-3 man focus gank squads.

I don't buy the obliterating ganking argument. When dealing with above average gankers, this add-on will just serve to let non-Tanks know they are about to die.

My issue is that it is the only public addon the grants users an insurmountable combat advantage. It will impact Cyrodiil as a whole not just certain play styles.

Edziu · December 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I personally think that the add-on is over the top. As long as it doesn't harm other add-ons they need to remove access to a lot of this data.

That said. There really isn't a lot significant counter play when dealing with a skilled ganker. If you are being duo ganked there is even less counter play. Basically, your counter play options are RML(only marginally effective), gearing up as a troll tank, rolling in a large enough group that most smart gankers are discouraged

Fair point!

In my personal experience gankers only manage to kill me about half of the time. The rest end up cloaking and scuttling off after a few attacks. However, if I was warned every time someone was casting Snipe on me, that number would drop dramatically. Also, if that person failed to kill me and cloaked, this add-on would alert me that they were still in the area with significantly less than full stamina. In that case I'd buff up and hunt them down (Magelight, AoE spam, etc.). They'd never get the opportunity to try again.

Killing from stealth is about choosing your targets carefully, waiting for the right moment to strike (without alerting the rest of your targets group), and getting out alive. It's a challenging and rewarding playstyle that will be completely obliterated by this add-on.

This is because most gankers are fotm/bad. Without being a full troll tank the good ones, that aren't just imitating the latest fotm, are very difficult to survive even if you know if you know they are in your general vicinity. This is just multiplied when dealing with 2-3 man focus gank squads.

I don't buy the obliterating ganking argument. When dealing with above average gankers, this add-on will just serve to let non-Tanks know they are about to die.

My issue is that it is the only public addon the grants users an insurmountable combat advantage. It will impact Cyrodiil as a whole not just certain play styles.

My issue with this addon is heavy armor meta when all players except mag sorc/nb and stam nb are wearing heavy armor and more health which is so hard to gang without 2 proc sets and to this its less viable targets to gang if you dont have proc sets + thanks this addon this rest who is able to gang they will be now not able to be ganged because they will se when you charging your attack

Kodrac · December 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

To me it is. The same goes for addons which tell you when to dodge roll/evade or when a projectile is incoming.

Have you seen the little tutorial popup on the bottom of the screen that tells you to double tap an arrow key to dodge roll? That's all the addons use. It's already a part of the game but they make it more obvious by adding text in the middle of the screen.

Just because you ignore these tutorial popups or are blind to them doesn't make an addon that uses them cheating. You're just showing your ignorance is all.

Bumblebeelzebub · December 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't buy the obliterating ganking argument. When dealing with above average gankers, this add-on will just serve to let non-Tanks know they are about to die.

My issue is that it is the only public addon the grants users an insurmountable combat advantage. It will impact Cyrodiil as a whole not just certain play styles.

If those non-tanks are alerted that they're about to be shot, there's a lot they can do about it. Shuffle, dodgeroll, and Ball of Lightning come to mind. We'll just have to disagree about the usefullness of precognition in Cyrodiil

I'm curious though, what's this insurmountable combat advantage you mentioned, if not the ability to shrug off stealth users?

Kodrac · December 2016

LegacyDM wrote: »

I'm canceling my subscription if Zos lets an add on like this continue.

Good thing you don't need a sub to gank in Cyro, Empty threat is empty.

Maikon · December 2016

99% of those raging about this are stealthers, and 99% of those stealthers exploit the viper set when they know it's broken. Therefore 99% of this thread is a double standard and invald.

Shyfty · December 2016

What confuses me about this thread is the number of people who don't like ganking because it has almost no counter play or is unfair. Cyrodil is not an isolated 1v1 level playing field. A ganker going out and picking a target and trying to get the kill and escape is just as valid as a group of 20 deciding to chase down the 2 or 3 person group and wiping them out. In both situations the losers are at a disadvantage and that is ok. Cyrodil is a massive war zone and people can make choices about how to use their time there.

If you think a ganker spending 10 minutes going behind enemy lines and killing you alone while you were just trying to rush to the front line doesn't deserve and advantage then perhaps you only want to duel in this game. The same argument can be made for a large well organized group. They put in the effort to organize so they should rightly have an advantage over small unorganized groups.

Manoekin · December 2016

"Why shouldn't I 1-shot you from stealth if I build for it?" - several people in this thread.

LOL.

Ganking should give you an advantage in a fight through the element of surprise and getting the first attack off. It shouldn't just end the fight immediately because you got lucky, or the other person wanted to wear light armor.

GaldorP · December 2016

Bumblebeelzebub wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't buy the obliterating ganking argument. When dealing with above average gankers, this add-on will just serve to let non-Tanks know they are about to die.

My issue is that it is the only public addon the grants users an insurmountable combat advantage. It will impact Cyrodiil as a whole not just certain play styles.

If those non-tanks are alerted that they're about to be shot, there's a lot they can do about it. Shuffle, dodgeroll, and Ball of Lightning come to mind. We'll just have to disagree about the usefullness of precognition in Cyrodiil

I'm curious though, what's this insurmountable combat advantage you mentioned, if not the ability to shrug off stealth users?

I would say the unsurmountable advantage is when you can see, for example, that 4 enemy players whose builds and playstyle you know well are nearby in stealth. Your group can react perfectly then and won't get surprised by them anymore.
Edit: This difference, having the addon or not having it, will change the outcome of the encounter in my example.

MalakithAlamahdi · December 2016

Edziu wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Wouldn't it just remove stealth "1 shots" from the game? Afaik it just tells you when someone is near, not where they are. The "1 shot" from stealth has always been dumb, I can't seem to dig up any outrage over the loss of that from the game.

if will be not possible to 1shot people without proc set then ganging at all will be useless because most people after 1st hit are instantly break free if they wasnt afk/searching something in backpack etc and then fast dodge, heal etc and nothing from gang and then ganging will be possible only for noobs, begginers with rare chance to gang average player

I don't really see insta gib ganking as a valid play style. Stealth is supposed give you the ability to start with an advantage, not a win.

so then just remove NB class, because for what we have class which is created for stealth and is the most squishy class in open fight? if you have no cloak you are dead at all

I don't understand the context of your reply in relation to my post, are you under the belief that NBs are supposed to be an instagib class from stealth?

with perfect environment yes, not everyone but mostly people also who are in heavy armor but no as tank build

if we have assasin class who is unable to 1shot anyone from stealth so for what then is this class?

It's not an assassin class, it's a class with unique access to stealth. The class has no entitlement to 0 gameplay kills. That would be ridiculous.

take dueal as nb agains dk, templar or sorc, they all have many counters to cloak especially sorc with spam curse on you, you are then without cloak, so no dmg shields, no any class good heal, no anything than this cloak which is not working as intendeed in half of the time its easy peasy to fast kill nb while dk ofc in heavy armor, very good survivability with sustain, magplar same with survivability , sorc also...meh, only nb...just dont let him to use cloak and spam light attacks is enought to finish him without problems

Cloak is not supposed to be a toggle to combat, it's supposed to have counter measures. NB is just 1 out of 4 classes, it's not a "I get to do what I want with impunity because I play a rogue class." It's meant to be played for the win, not handed the win by virtue of their class type.

so for what is cloak if it should work in combat? give to nb a damage shield and great heal skill instead of cloak which is not supposed to work in combat.

same I cxan say about damage shield from sorc, this should work in combat because for what? stacked they have to big power, breath of life templar is huge heal which should be to healing outside combat in break of fight between bosses, trash etc to not wait until health will regen itself + where are potions/poisons to prevent use damage shields etc?

EDIT: and please show me hot to figh as nb in duel without cloak, without any better heal and dmg shield etc against any class

I think we may have a language barrier. When I say it's not supposed to be a toggle to combat I mean that cloak is not supposed to be a button that you press that just ends the fight. It is supposed be something you work for, and comes with counterplay. For example templars are a healing class, but there are defiles to help counter that healing. It's not intended for Templars to just be able to heal through all damage and never die because they are a healing class. They have counters in place to prevent that, so that hopefully all classes have a balance of viability toward the other classes. No class is entitled to be the other classes checkmate, the check mate comes internally through build and morph choices.

We are getting off topic, so make your reply if you wish and that will be it for this side discussion.

templar, get defile debuff>purify>problem solved

cloak at all have that many counters so you canprevent other nb going into hide for all time of this fight

and in back to you "problem" with mine 2 cents about 1shouting nb from stealth..

rogue class, so good mobility with stealth etc, perfect combination to ganging, at all its only class possible to effective ganging and most people are playing on nb only for this, so if will be not possible to 1shot someone then nb will be much useless on pvp

while we have tankly classes with tankly build who also have not low damage and can kill you but you have problem with kill them...at all its hard to kill them.

we have fake tankly build based on just heavy armor for more armor and thats all, just more resistances, they sacriface not much damage to more resistances to harder kill them

ofc gang a true tank is and impossible and shouldnt be possible but why then we shouldnt 1shot someone from stealth?

and to addon...if it is showing me when someone is entering to stealth its clear I will instantly start buffing etc and then chance to gang me will be less and almost impossible because of buffs

normally tank who dont know anything is able to gang gim, ofc not with 1shot, if he is to slow to fast break free then you have chance to finish him
now this tank will see you around if you will enter into stealth also behind wall or something and then he is full buffed and ehh...only way for you is just leavy him or he will also look for you and rekt, this is now stupid.

you have radiant mageligh which is often used on stam builds to defend from gang, now you have addon which will tell you you are possible to gang by someone and you dont need before spam skill to prevent gang on you

so its time to go play often on templar with radiant spam or other tankly class because gangers will be now much less problem and less playable because it not effective while anyone can know you are near in stealth

Got no idea what you're on about. A nightblade can take on a tanky dk just fine, and be just as tanky while doing so. You can build a NB a lot different than into a squishy high damage ganker. Hel, one of the tankies builds you'll ever get across are Magicka NB's.