Group Finder Penalty

Yo_Donno · November 2016

Hello. I'll get straight to the point here: I think the group finder penalty should be done away with. Yes, I realize this is just my opinion but I've got reasons to support it, as do many people who share my opinion, I'm certain.

Let's start with group kicks. As a CP 540 myself, I don't usually get kicked from dungeon groups simply based on my champion level, however I have seen many lower level players, typically between cp10 and cp160 kicked like this. I will admit to participating in this; I don't care to start these votes myself but if other people do I usually vote yes, (especially in Vet DLC dungeons or Vet COA II) because I really don't want to waste time running through with a group just to realize we haven't a prayer of completing the dungeon. I realize this seems rude to players, as usually they don't really get a chance to prove themselves, but I am of the opinion that if a person doesn't have their end-game gear, (cp160 and at least purple) they have no business in the hardest dungeons in the game. As twisted as it may seem, I do not, however, wish for these people to be forced to wait 15 minutes to find another dungeon group. When I was a lower level I did face this kind of thing a lot, especially before the update when group leaders could singlehandedly kick players. I always felt dejected, but I can't imagine how angry I would be if I then had to wait for a cooldown.

Another issue is leaders disbanding groups before they even start. Let's see some footage, shall we. Pay attention to the top left and right corners of the screen.

https://youtu.be/i5Uwx5kNLMw

I wish I could say that's the first time that had happened to me.

I ask myself why ZoS added this system in the first place sometimes. Was it to discourage players from leaving groups prematurely? To discourage disbanding groups prematurely? Either way it's really not doing a great job of it. People leave and kick and disband only slightly less often. None of those things would really cause an issue if people could just jump right back in and get queued back up quickly.

I don't have any good suggestions to replace this system, but until someone can come up with something I, and many other players would like to see this removed.

timidobserver · November 2016

The life of a new ESO player.

1. Stack a bunch of xp bonuses.
2. Level up to 50 in a few hours without learning how to play the class or game.
3. Immediately queue up for vRoM or vCOS upon hitting 50.
4. Immediately get kicked from group.
5. Go onto the forums and complain.

Suter1972 · November 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

The life of a new ESO player.

1. Stack a bunch of xp bonuses.
2. Level up to 50 in a few hours without learning how to play the class or game.
3. Immediately queue up for vRoM or vCOS upon hitting 50.
4. Immediately get kicked from group.
5. Go onto the forums and complain.

wow that's a lot of generalisation. Im sure I could come up with one for 'vet' players that's equally damming too.

Im a 'new' player. Im into my 3rd month now and up to Cp219 just taking things easy and ive got to say, i dont do any of those things in your list.

However, probably unrelated but ive started seeing quite a few 'high level' players who im grouped with just run off ahead on dailies, (im talking other side of the map and finish the quest before the rest of the group get a chance. You then get a message from same person 'anyone want to share next quest'....). I then get sent back to quest giver, pick up the reward for doing nothing other than trying to keep up on my horse with a player who doesn't give a hoot about working as a group . I leave the group at that point as theres no fun in that. This is my limit to grouping and its boring.

You then say new players don't have enough experience..... no sH!t

abelsgmx · December 2016

Group quit punishment is really annoying due to a lot of reasons, i think they will not remove it

SolarCat02 · December 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

The life of a new ESO player.

1. Stack a bunch of xp bonuses.
2. Level up to 50 in a few hours without learning how to play the class or game.
3. Immediately queue up for vRoM or vCOS upon hitting 50.
4. Immediately get kicked from group.
5. Go onto the forums and complain.

This is a LOT of generalization.

I mean, personally, I prefer to grind up to levels using the "Random Normal Dungeon" option, personally...

AlnilamE · December 2016

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Hello. I'll get straight to the point here: I think the group finder penalty should be done away with. Yes, I realize this is just my opinion but I've got reasons to support it, as do many people who share my opinion, I'm certain.

Let's start with group kicks. As a CP 540 myself, I don't usually get kicked from dungeon groups simply based on my champion level, however I have seen many lower level players, typically between cp10 and cp160 kicked like this. I will admit to participating in this; I don't care to start these votes myself but if other people do I usually vote yes, (especially in Vet DLC dungeons or Vet COA II) because I really don't want to waste time running through with a group just to realize we haven't a prayer of completing the dungeon. I realize this seems rude to players, as usually they don't really get a chance to prove themselves, but I am of the opinion that if a person doesn't have their end-game gear, (cp160 and at least purple) they have no business in the hardest dungeons in the game. As twisted as it may seem, I do not, however, wish for these people to be forced to wait 15 minutes to find another dungeon group. When I was a lower level I did face this kind of thing a lot, especially before the update when group leaders could singlehandedly kick players. I always felt dejected, but I can't imagine how angry I would be if I then had to wait for a cooldown.

Another issue is leaders disbanding groups before they even start. Let's see some footage, shall we. Pay attention to the top left and right corners of the screen.

https://youtu.be/i5Uwx5kNLMw

I wish I could say that's the first time that had happened to me.

I ask myself why ZoS added this system in the first place sometimes. Was it to discourage players from leaving groups prematurely? To discourage disbanding groups prematurely? Either way it's really not doing a great job of it. People leave and kick and disband only slightly less often. None of those things would really cause an issue if people could just jump right back in and get queued back up quickly.

I don't have any good suggestions to replace this system, but until someone can come up with something I, and many other players would like to see this removed.

Groups formed via the group finder cannot be disbanded. When that happens it's a bug. You can vote to kick someone or you can leave, but that's it.

Now, if you don't like the group you ended up in, you have the option to leave and take the penalty yourself. Or you could spend the 15-minute cooldown starting the dungeon and seeing how they do.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Another issue is leaders disbanding groups before they even start. Let's see some footage, shall we. Pay attention to the top left and right corners of the screen.

Yes, this.. most annoying! Oh well, just 15 minutes of grinding or doing other things.

IronCrystal · December 2016

Like other's said, the instant group disband is a bug. Not someone disbanding the group.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Take a look at this....what are your thoughts on this approach?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308467/dungeons-trials-activity-finder-add-trials-queue-december-2016#latest

This is highly opinionated but I think it births a good discussion collaboration of different threads

1. Role confirmation requirement per dungeon (suggestion)
-By now many of us whether it be manual or via the queue of activity finder, have come across traditional roles, mixed roles and preferred roles And ppl who get grouped who are afk or who have selected multiple roles to get a faster queue. Let's resolve this now....

When some dungeons require more or less of certain roles, I'm suggesting that if people are to enter a queue, that they are required to confirm their role first before being grouped and before entering the queue. If not they stay in queue....basic hopefully if possible.

To be clear, I'm not saying that groups can't run with all dps or 3:1 and what not but I am saying that the role icons should always be confirmed by each player so that it's clear. Confirmation is a radial choice so a role is still suggested but it has to be confirmed but can be accepted and a different role can be chosen, this would cause you to go back to queue tho.

The other part of this is that the confirmation happens prior to rule out afk players as well as players who may not want to be X role for the listed dungeon

These should help improve the results of the queue and keep people in queue if they are afk until they return.
This also will prevent players being grouped for a dungeon they may feel they don't want to participate in or a role they'd rather not play in the specified dungeon.

***This means that the current travel to dungeon pop-up is instead a role and dungeon confirmation pop-up that if not selected, it automatically removes you or doesn't group you. ***

1.b. Vote to kick

-If the group wants to vote to kick someone it should always require a radial selection of why.
*Not fulfilling role (includes low dps or not using skills, gear etc)
*AFK
*D/C
*behavior (includes being rude, or not working with the group)

- so if someone is kicked they should see the selection so it's clear

1.c. The 15 minute timer

-I'm listing ideas above and below in hopes of drastically reducing the possibility that this will occur

****there is more in the link that rounds out this particular part I cut out for this discussion*******

5. Manual Group LFG social tab For groups and trials
Trials normal and veteran

In the activity finder section...there should be a sign up queue.
What I mean is every Hour with reset and clear, players should be able to sign up as LFG
The filters would use the actual activity finder random and specific queue drop downs but there would be a manual section

All this would do is by player selection, allow players to manual list themselves as LFG with their role, and specific dungeons and trial choices
It would produce a list that looks exactly like the guild tab social that shows name, level, class, role

Jeremy · December 2016

I"m not s

abelsgmx wrote: »

Group quit punishment is really annoying due to a lot of reasons, i think they will not remove it

They need to remove it, especially with all these prima donna tanks running around rage quitting over every little thing.

The only one who should suffer a penalty is the first guy (or gal) who leaves.

Silver_Strider · December 2016

I will give you the benefit of the doubt if someone comes in with low CP.

When it takes 15 minutes just to get to (not even start the fight but literally just getting into the room) the 1st Main Boss of vDarkshade 2, I'm out.

Jeremy · December 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I will give you the benefit of the doubt if someone comes in with low CP.

When it takes 15 minutes just to get to (not even start the fight but literally just getting into the room) the 1st Main Boss of vDarkshade 2, I'm out.

I'm glad to hear that, but many don't. They see a low CP character and right at the start they sit at the beginning of the dungeon spamming vote kicks. And if the low CP character refuses to drop on his/her own - or the other players refuse to go along with the vote kick - then that player literally will just sit there at the start of the dungeon pouting until they get their way or just leave themselves. It's usually the tank too - who at least half of the time seem to be prima donnas as I pointed out.

I did finally get both my hard mode pledges completed today - but it was hell and after many disbanded groups and time penalties. And even on the successful runs I had to listen to the tank's incessant whining about the group's dps (even though we were progressing just fine) the whole damn time.

I have noticed a trend in ESO lately where the players signing up for the dungeon finder are becoming more and more spoiled. They have no patience for anything less than perfection and will stomp their feet and leave like bratty little kids if they get anything less. And it really is a special kind of b.s. that other players have to be penalized because these prima donnas want to kill the run over stupidity.

As you can probably tell from my language - I am fed up with it.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I will give you the benefit of the doubt if someone comes in with low CP.

When it takes 15 minutes just to get to (not even start the fight but literally just getting into the room) the 1st Main Boss of vDarkshade 2, I'm out.

I'm glad to hear that, but many don't. They see a low CP character and right at the start they sit at the beginning of the dungeon spamming vote kicks. And if the low CP character refuses to drop on his/her own - or the other players refuse to go along with the vote kick - then that player literally will just sit there at the start of the dungeon pouting until they get their way or just leave themselves. It's usually the tank too - who at least half of the time seem to be prima donnas as I pointed out.

I did finally get both my hard mode pledges completed today - but it was hell and after many disbanded groups and time penalties. And even on the successful runs I had to listen to the tank's incessant whining about the group's dps (even though we were progressing just fine) the whole damn time.

I have noticed a trend in ESO lately where the players signing up for the dungeon finder are becoming more and more spoiled. They have no patience for anything less than perfection and will stomp their feet and leave like bratty little kids if they get anything less. And it really is a special kind of b.s. that other players have to be penalized because these prima donnas want to kill the run over stupidity.

As you can probably tell from my language - I am fed up with it.

I think the reason you see it in tanks the most is because this is the roll dps usually likes to fake queue as.

So you have a dps queueing as a tank because the wait is to slow and then they get hit with this character they think will be to slow so they have a little fit. Poor babies.

Yo_Donno · December 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I will give you the benefit of the doubt if someone comes in with low CP.

When it takes 15 minutes just to get to (not even start the fight but literally just getting into the room) the 1st Main Boss of vDarkshade 2, I'm out.

I'm glad to hear that, but many don't. They see a low CP character and right at the start they sit at the beginning of the dungeon spamming vote kicks. And if the low CP character refuses to drop on his/her own - or the other players refuse to go along with the vote kick - then that player literally will just sit there at the start of the dungeon pouting until they get their way or just leave themselves. It's usually the tank too - who at least half of the time seem to be prima donnas as I pointed out.

I did finally get both my hard mode pledges completed today - but it was hell and after many disbanded groups and time penalties. And even on the successful runs I had to listen to the tank's incessant whining about the group's dps (even though we were progressing just fine) the whole damn time.

I have noticed a trend in ESO lately where the players signing up for the dungeon finder are becoming more and more spoiled. They have no patience for anything less than perfection and will stomp their feet and leave like bratty little kids if they get anything less. And it really is a special kind of b.s. that other players have to be penalized because these prima donnas want to kill the run over stupidity.

As you can probably tell from my language - I am fed up with it.

I think the reason you see it in tanks the most is because this is the roll dps usually likes to fake queue as.

So you have a dps queueing as a tank because the wait is to slow and then they get hit with this character they think will be to slow so they have a little fit. Poor babies.

This. They're used to having DPS strong enough that they can skip boss mechanics and sustain themselves without a tank. I totally see where you are coming from. However, I think vet DLC dungeons are entirely a different entity. As I experienced trying to gear up my healer, people don't want to run hard dungeons with you (White Gold) unless you have good group buffs (Spell Power Cure)... you can see the conundrum there. Due to this I was forced to use the group finder, and I will admit if I saw a CP 80 DPS spamming uppercut/heavy attack I would vote to kick. It depends on the content, really. It is only warranted if that person is limiting the group's progress.

IronCrystal wrote: »

Like other's said, the instant group disband is a bug. Not someone disbanding the group.

Even so, it's giving another reason to get the thing removed. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that ZoS could let this bug exist for so long, and I am honestly surprised that they didn't have the decency to remove the penalty until they at least got their features working properly.