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Magicka Sorcerer DW PvP Build - Riddick
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »In 1v1, I'm much stronger than in Imperial City. My shields are bigger, my damage as well.
I'm geared for 1vx and mobility in pvp, not so much for 1v1.
So yes, I use the destro ult, because Sorcerer has only bad ultimates and I never used and never will use the destro ult in a 1v1. I think it's super underpowered, considering its cost.
I would definately smoke a dual wield Sorc any time. I honestly consider using it, but the downsides overweight the benefits.^
I even wrote in the video descriptions, that these zergs were made of bad players.
It's not even a contest for me to take these out. I would do so in any gear and any location. As you can see, I don't even use Line of sight unlike all your other YouTube Stars.
But, you can't do this with a zerg made of good players. It's mathematically impossible when they know what to do. Good players will never get Xv1ed
I'm not talking about 1v1. Btw are you saying that you have more than 61k magicka outside of IC? What's the point of even running Imperial Physique then? The only reason that set is any good is because of the massive boosts to stats, nothing else. Duels are very superficial. They can show a player's abilities for sure, but they don't reflect open world PvP at all. For a sorc 1v1 though its fine, but its a strange way to judge a whole set-up. Destro can beat dual wield, just like dual wield can beat destro. Sustained pressure in a sorc v sorc fight doesn't really matter because you always only get a small window for burst, that's when the shields are down. Dual wield burst > destro burst any day of the week at any time.
You speak like its a general rule that destro just always beats dual wield. But when you say you've smoked every single player using dual wield, was that player on the same skill level as you? Was he built as well as you are? Tons of factors come in.
What are the downsides that outweigh the benefits? Sustained pressure with Force Pulse? Here's the thing... Puncturing Sweeps, Swallow Soul or Flame Lash are great spammable abilities because they have secondary effects. Take Swallow Soul for example, its dirt cheap to cast, gives you a HoT and gives you Minor Vitality. Force Pulse does more damage than Swallow Soul and the only reason its used in non Hard Mode trials is the fact that its procs Elemental Drain twice (crit hit and non-crit), it is empowered by Engulfing Flames (every group has a DK) and it has a higher chance to proc Grothdarr, Ilambris (or Nerien'eth for those still using it) as well as sets like Scathing Mage. So in serious PvE content, Force Pulse is a monster of a spammable ability. In PvP?... Well its expensive and it doesn't really do anything interesting aside from the interrupt should you chose that morph, but at that point you're losing damage.
Dual Wield? It gives you an gear extra slot (essentially meaning more max magicka). It gives you a great amount of spell damage, not that its as crucial as magicka, but still the damage difference is easily noticeable. It gives you a 5% increase in overall damage done. It helps with you stamina sustain (for those struggling) as a fully charged heavy attack restores around 2k stamina. It allows you to equip an extra enchant, although at first it seems like its not important. I quite like having the disease enchant is a great way for getting Minor Defile and it has a 40% chance to proc. Debuffing healing on a sorcerer is pretty deadly and on the other sword I like having the reduce weapon damage enchant. When you get gap closed, you can always apply your shields and swing your swords a few times. You can still weave against a melee target in open world PvP, in fact, you should weave even with swords as it makes animation canceling quicker and more effective, as well as applying debuffs. So the final two advantages of dual wielding aren't exactly game changers. But the first 3 are. The difference in damage is huge (around 50% more damage on the big hitters).
So sustained pressure isn't really that great considering you're weakening your burst as a sorcerer. At this point it a choice you have to make. Higher sustained pressure or higher burst? In open world, burst definitely matters more, there's no debate around that. In a duel? Well... Yeah in my normal PvP set-up, I'm having a hard time taking down tanky templars or DKs. If I built myself for a duel, meaning dropping the Lich, getting more max magicka (and getting sustain from elsewhere), I think the outcome would be different. I have placed a "1 shot" combo doing over 30k damage more than once against some really tanky DKs (Curse, Fury, Shooting Star, Streak, Frags, Fury). Templars with Purifying Ritual are much much harder to kill because they entirely negate half of your burst, unless they make a mistake and forget, which will definitely get them killed. Sure its all based on lucky crits, but its doable. Thats against tanks with 30k wish health. Anything above that, and you might as well just not waste your time trying to kill them with dual wield.
Totally agree on the 1vX part, but I thought everyone knew that already! You can't 1vX against good players.
PS: Really? Destro ultimate underpowered? Even in trials no one uses meteor anymore because this thing is just so brutal. So I don't know how you can consider it underpowered. It has reasonable cost for its damage. Especially knowing that its so easy to wipe zergs with it that you gotta get ten killing blows for it do be up again. In duels, yeah it sucks, I can usually just stand in it, tea bagging the sorc while shielding up and placing my burst (don't say they are bad sorcs, they all run the meta build with Spinner's and Lich!
). One of the only times I actually had to Streak out of it was against @psychotic13 with his Alchemist proc. Cause THAT really hurts.
No, but Imperial Physiques Magicka is fake, it's not really there.
There is a bug where your ressources desync when you swap weapons, but it's not really there.
I actually only have 53k magicka in these videos, where outside of IC I have 55k, because I simply use different food and master weapons.
And dual wield is not viable for Magicka Sorcs. it's not better than destro in any situation. Seriously, you play dual wield because you are tired of force shock spam and want to tell yourself the illusion, that crystal shard and curse is good burst.
The extra damage from dual wield and especially the extra set piece is a huge benefit. And don't get me wrong, destro staff is a horrible weapon line, dual wield is better for other classes. But simply not for Sorcerers, because we are the only class without a spammable ability that deals enough damage.
And pleeeease stop. No half decent player receives a Sorcerer burst combo these days, just no. Everyone blocks meteor and people are way too tanky to die from crystal shard and curse alone.
Do me a favour and *** off all you do is moan, I'll play how I want if I feel it's optimal for me. Just like you use Destro cause you feel it's optimal for you, just shut up.
Woah hey there. No need to get this upset. Try arguing.
As a spammable, force shock is only doing 4-500 per hit against a heavy target. Times three. You're hitting for 1.5k with that ability if you're lucky.
Dual wield uses mages wrath as a spammable, which hits for 800-1K against a tanky target. Plus it instantly kills anyone under 20%.
The only thing Destro has in its favor now is the ultimate and heavy attacks. I'm pretty sure ZOS is going to nerf the EoTS ult into the dirt, but he's right that it's effective as hell now and will be for the next month or two. After? I'm betting no.
Dual wield empowers every frag, so they all hit 20% harder. You're adding 4-5K to every frag, sometimes they hit as hard as 12K on an HA target. 19K on a light. Curse empowers and explodes for 10K. The enemy has wrath on them so they explode for 20K under 20% health.
Staff builds usually do NOT empower frags, and instead weave with light and heavy staff attacks. The frags do less damage overall at 7-8K or so, but that 7K HA opener makes up for it. More if it's fire and you're fighting a vampire.
TLDR; The damage math is about the same except for the destro ultimate, and they're going to nerf that. Staff does get elemental effects on light/heavy which can't be ignored when 90% of Cyrodiil are vampires.
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One more thing in favor of staff builds that can't be ignored. They do better sustained pressure. Every attack isn't a home run like dual wield, but they add up fast.
Dual wield has a miserable time taking on a good HA Templar, there simply isn't enough burst to fight the constant heal/purge. With enough sustained pressure the Templar can only heal and pray. Then knock them down and you can finish/execute them.
Dual wield also has more trouble with an HA magicka DK. A staff build can pull off dragon wings with one quick light/pulse/light/pulse weave. Yeah, It's reflected but does almost nothing to you. Four attacks and wings are down in two seconds. Frag out before they wing again, and curse explodes. Kill them on the ground. It's easier. Wings can shut down a DW sorc hard because they depend on burst frags too much.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »In 1v1, I'm much stronger than in Imperial City. My shields are bigger, my damage as well.
I'm geared for 1vx and mobility in pvp, not so much for 1v1.
So yes, I use the destro ult, because Sorcerer has only bad ultimates and I never used and never will use the destro ult in a 1v1. I think it's super underpowered, considering its cost.
I would definately smoke a dual wield Sorc any time. I honestly consider using it, but the downsides overweight the benefits.^
I even wrote in the video descriptions, that these zergs were made of bad players.
It's not even a contest for me to take these out. I would do so in any gear and any location. As you can see, I don't even use Line of sight unlike all your other YouTube Stars.
But, you can't do this with a zerg made of good players. It's mathematically impossible when they know what to do. Good players will never get Xv1ed
I'm not talking about 1v1. Btw are you saying that you have more than 61k magicka outside of IC? What's the point of even running Imperial Physique then? The only reason that set is any good is because of the massive boosts to stats, nothing else. Duels are very superficial. They can show a player's abilities for sure, but they don't reflect open world PvP at all. For a sorc 1v1 though its fine, but its a strange way to judge a whole set-up. Destro can beat dual wield, just like dual wield can beat destro. Sustained pressure in a sorc v sorc fight doesn't really matter because you always only get a small window for burst, that's when the shields are down. Dual wield burst > destro burst any day of the week at any time.
You speak like its a general rule that destro just always beats dual wield. But when you say you've smoked every single player using dual wield, was that player on the same skill level as you? Was he built as well as you are? Tons of factors come in.
What are the downsides that outweigh the benefits? Sustained pressure with Force Pulse? Here's the thing... Puncturing Sweeps, Swallow Soul or Flame Lash are great spammable abilities because they have secondary effects. Take Swallow Soul for example, its dirt cheap to cast, gives you a HoT and gives you Minor Vitality. Force Pulse does more damage than Swallow Soul and the only reason its used in non Hard Mode trials is the fact that its procs Elemental Drain twice (crit hit and non-crit), it is empowered by Engulfing Flames (every group has a DK) and it has a higher chance to proc Grothdarr, Ilambris (or Nerien'eth for those still using it) as well as sets like Scathing Mage. So in serious PvE content, Force Pulse is a monster of a spammable ability. In PvP?... Well its expensive and it doesn't really do anything interesting aside from the interrupt should you chose that morph, but at that point you're losing damage.
Dual Wield? It gives you an gear extra slot (essentially meaning more max magicka). It gives you a great amount of spell damage, not that its as crucial as magicka, but still the damage difference is easily noticeable. It gives you a 5% increase in overall damage done. It helps with you stamina sustain (for those struggling) as a fully charged heavy attack restores around 2k stamina. It allows you to equip an extra enchant, although at first it seems like its not important. I quite like having the disease enchant is a great way for getting Minor Defile and it has a 40% chance to proc. Debuffing healing on a sorcerer is pretty deadly and on the other sword I like having the reduce weapon damage enchant. When you get gap closed, you can always apply your shields and swing your swords a few times. You can still weave against a melee target in open world PvP, in fact, you should weave even with swords as it makes animation canceling quicker and more effective, as well as applying debuffs. So the final two advantages of dual wielding aren't exactly game changers. But the first 3 are. The difference in damage is huge (around 50% more damage on the big hitters).
So sustained pressure isn't really that great considering you're weakening your burst as a sorcerer. At this point it a choice you have to make. Higher sustained pressure or higher burst? In open world, burst definitely matters more, there's no debate around that. In a duel? Well... Yeah in my normal PvP set-up, I'm having a hard time taking down tanky templars or DKs. If I built myself for a duel, meaning dropping the Lich, getting more max magicka (and getting sustain from elsewhere), I think the outcome would be different. I have placed a "1 shot" combo doing over 30k damage more than once against some really tanky DKs (Curse, Fury, Shooting Star, Streak, Frags, Fury). Templars with Purifying Ritual are much much harder to kill because they entirely negate half of your burst, unless they make a mistake and forget, which will definitely get them killed. Sure its all based on lucky crits, but its doable. Thats against tanks with 30k wish health. Anything above that, and you might as well just not waste your time trying to kill them with dual wield.
Totally agree on the 1vX part, but I thought everyone knew that already! You can't 1vX against good players.
PS: Really? Destro ultimate underpowered? Even in trials no one uses meteor anymore because this thing is just so brutal. So I don't know how you can consider it underpowered. It has reasonable cost for its damage. Especially knowing that its so easy to wipe zergs with it that you gotta get ten killing blows for it do be up again. In duels, yeah it sucks, I can usually just stand in it, tea bagging the sorc while shielding up and placing my burst (don't say they are bad sorcs, they all run the meta build with Spinner's and Lich! ). One of the only times I actually had to Streak out of it was against @psychotic13 with his Alchemist proc. Cause THAT really hurts.
No, but Imperial Physiques Magicka is fake, it's not really there.
There is a bug where your ressources desync when you swap weapons, but it's not really there.
I actually only have 53k magicka in these videos, where outside of IC I have 55k, because I simply use different food and master weapons.
And dual wield is not viable for Magicka Sorcs. it's not better than destro in any situation. Seriously, you play dual wield because you are tired of force shock spam and want to tell yourself the illusion, that crystal shard and curse is good burst.
The extra damage from dual wield and especially the extra set piece is a huge benefit. And don't get me wrong, destro staff is a horrible weapon line, dual wield is better for other classes. But simply not for Sorcerers, because we are the only class without a spammable ability that deals enough damage.
And pleeeease stop. No half decent player receives a Sorcerer burst combo these days, just no. Everyone blocks meteor and people are way too tanky to die from crystal shard and curse alone.
Do me a favour and *** off all you do is moan, I'll play how I want if I feel it's optimal for me. Just like you use Destro cause you feel it's optimal for you, just shut up.
Woah hey there. No need to get this upset. Try arguing.
As a spammable, force shock is only doing 4-500 per hit against a heavy target. Times three. You're hitting for 1.5k with that ability if you're lucky.
Dual wield uses mages wrath as a spammable, which hits for 800-1K against a tanky target. Plus it instantly kills anyone under 20%.
The only thing Destro has in its favor now is the ultimate and heavy attacks. I'm pretty sure ZOS is going to nerf the EoTS ult into the dirt, but he's right that it's effective as hell now and will be for the next month or two. After? I'm betting no.
Dual wield empowers every frag, so they all hit 20% harder. You're adding 4-5K to every frag, sometimes they hit as hard as 12K on an HA target. 19K on a light. Curse empowers and explodes for 10K. The enemy has wrath on them so they explode for 20K under 20% health.
Staff builds usually do NOT empower frags, and instead weave with light and heavy staff attacks. The frags do less damage overall at 7-8K or so, but that 7K HA opener makes up for it. More if it's fire and you're fighting a vampire.
TLDR; The damage math is about the same except for the destro ultimate, and they're going to nerf that. Staff does get elemental effects on light/heavy which can't be ignored when 90% of Cyrodiil are vampires.
I'm not upset lol, but she's already told me what her opinion is, that she favours the staff and that's fine, but there's no need to just keep saying my build isn't viable when it clearly is, it depends on how you like to play, its that simple.
I don't use mages wrath as a spammable, I'll normally use entropy to prog Frags, and try to time everything with the stun of the Familiar. As you said there's also a lot of vampires, so even though Dawnbreaker isn't the greatest ability for a Magicka build it's still getting +20% of the tooltip damage against vamps, and I use the prismatic glyphs which also are not bad.
You're also right that DW sorcs depend on Frags a lot more, and heavy mag DKs are a pain. They can be killed though, even the best mag DKs won't keep their wings up 100% of the time, with the DW sorc the enemy only has to make 1 mistake and I can punish them for it.
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm testing out a new odd ball staff build now that should give me most of the DW power and with the sustained pressure of a staff build. Time will tell but hopefully all of this time, effort, money, and theory crafting will go to some good use.
I won't post it here, because I'll flip my s*** if some AD hordeling in a 100 man Zerg ball of stupid uses this on me. Let the lemmings go use a vanilla Deltia or Hexys build if they don't want to invest hundreds of thousands in gold, and then hours fiddling with the FTC damage reports, tweaking, and then testing it. Not to mention the many many expensive and time consuming failures.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Entropy is exactly how I empowered those frags. DW is still okay, but it's definitely not for me. Like you said, it's countered too hard, and I like running around alone.
Personally I think DW is still okay to run in a small group with support. People paying attention to the stam guy in their face (and not you) get two-shotted.
However, if they buff destro slightly, that'll be the last nail in the coffin for dual wield sorcs.
Force pulse is a reflectable beam, which is the stinking turd in the crap sandiwich of this expensive, low-damage ability.
Destructive clench and reach cost a fortune for very little benefit.
The cost of every ability on the staff is ridiculous because it's the only offensive weapon without a 20% cost reduction passive (I.e. ranger on bow).1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've been a magicka sorc for almost two years now. In no way is DW sorc a bad choice.
First off, the pet ability is spammable, each time you click it, it shoots out the AoE, as @psychotic13 pointed out, it does alright damage, also procs frags, entropy empowers and procs frags, wards proc frags. Time it between wings or wait till pet stuns. Heck just animation cancel the frag with dodge roll just incase of wings.
Resto staff ticks harder than lightning staff and goes through wings. It can be slow going, but streak or mines + curse + familiar + resto staff can keep the pressure while waiting for the DK to drop wings.
Let me also mention this easy as pie combo this build has:
Familiar + Curse + SA +Wrath = approximately 60kish damage in PvP. And @psychotic13 can drop that right after a curse hit. Trust me, if you're a tank at 70%, you're going down. Curse is unblockable fyi and even blocking the SA means 30k dmg (or at least 22k after max armor resistance)
Now I prefer dueling and this build is a freakin monster in duels. Not to mention that the player using it is a pro.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »In 1v1, I'm much stronger than in Imperial City. My shields are bigger, my damage as well.
I'm geared for 1vx and mobility in pvp, not so much for 1v1.
So yes, I use the destro ult, because Sorcerer has only bad ultimates and I never used and never will use the destro ult in a 1v1. I think it's super underpowered, considering its cost.
I would definately smoke a dual wield Sorc any time. I honestly consider using it, but the downsides overweight the benefits.^
I even wrote in the video descriptions, that these zergs were made of bad players.
It's not even a contest for me to take these out. I would do so in any gear and any location. As you can see, I don't even use Line of sight unlike all your other YouTube Stars.
But, you can't do this with a zerg made of good players. It's mathematically impossible when they know what to do. Good players will never get Xv1ed
I'm not talking about 1v1. Btw are you saying that you have more than 61k magicka outside of IC? What's the point of even running Imperial Physique then? The only reason that set is any good is because of the massive boosts to stats, nothing else. Duels are very superficial. They can show a player's abilities for sure, but they don't reflect open world PvP at all. For a sorc 1v1 though its fine, but its a strange way to judge a whole set-up. Destro can beat dual wield, just like dual wield can beat destro. Sustained pressure in a sorc v sorc fight doesn't really matter because you always only get a small window for burst, that's when the shields are down. Dual wield burst > destro burst any day of the week at any time.
You speak like its a general rule that destro just always beats dual wield. But when you say you've smoked every single player using dual wield, was that player on the same skill level as you? Was he built as well as you are? Tons of factors come in.
What are the downsides that outweigh the benefits? Sustained pressure with Force Pulse? Here's the thing... Puncturing Sweeps, Swallow Soul or Flame Lash are great spammable abilities because they have secondary effects. Take Swallow Soul for example, its dirt cheap to cast, gives you a HoT and gives you Minor Vitality. Force Pulse does more damage than Swallow Soul and the only reason its used in non Hard Mode trials is the fact that its procs Elemental Drain twice (crit hit and non-crit), it is empowered by Engulfing Flames (every group has a DK) and it has a higher chance to proc Grothdarr, Ilambris (or Nerien'eth for those still using it) as well as sets like Scathing Mage. So in serious PvE content, Force Pulse is a monster of a spammable ability. In PvP?... Well its expensive and it doesn't really do anything interesting aside from the interrupt should you chose that morph, but at that point you're losing damage.
Dual Wield? It gives you an gear extra slot (essentially meaning more max magicka). It gives you a great amount of spell damage, not that its as crucial as magicka, but still the damage difference is easily noticeable. It gives you a 5% increase in overall damage done. It helps with you stamina sustain (for those struggling) as a fully charged heavy attack restores around 2k stamina. It allows you to equip an extra enchant, although at first it seems like its not important. I quite like having the disease enchant is a great way for getting Minor Defile and it has a 40% chance to proc. Debuffing healing on a sorcerer is pretty deadly and on the other sword I like having the reduce weapon damage enchant. When you get gap closed, you can always apply your shields and swing your swords a few times. You can still weave against a melee target in open world PvP, in fact, you should weave even with swords as it makes animation canceling quicker and more effective, as well as applying debuffs. So the final two advantages of dual wielding aren't exactly game changers. But the first 3 are. The difference in damage is huge (around 50% more damage on the big hitters).
So sustained pressure isn't really that great considering you're weakening your burst as a sorcerer. At this point it a choice you have to make. Higher sustained pressure or higher burst? In open world, burst definitely matters more, there's no debate around that. In a duel? Well... Yeah in my normal PvP set-up, I'm having a hard time taking down tanky templars or DKs. If I built myself for a duel, meaning dropping the Lich, getting more max magicka (and getting sustain from elsewhere), I think the outcome would be different. I have placed a "1 shot" combo doing over 30k damage more than once against some really tanky DKs (Curse, Fury, Shooting Star, Streak, Frags, Fury). Templars with Purifying Ritual are much much harder to kill because they entirely negate half of your burst, unless they make a mistake and forget, which will definitely get them killed. Sure its all based on lucky crits, but its doable. Thats against tanks with 30k wish health. Anything above that, and you might as well just not waste your time trying to kill them with dual wield.
Totally agree on the 1vX part, but I thought everyone knew that already! You can't 1vX against good players.
PS: Really? Destro ultimate underpowered? Even in trials no one uses meteor anymore because this thing is just so brutal. So I don't know how you can consider it underpowered. It has reasonable cost for its damage. Especially knowing that its so easy to wipe zergs with it that you gotta get ten killing blows for it do be up again. In duels, yeah it sucks, I can usually just stand in it, tea bagging the sorc while shielding up and placing my burst (don't say they are bad sorcs, they all run the meta build with Spinner's and Lich! ). One of the only times I actually had to Streak out of it was against @psychotic13 with his Alchemist proc. Cause THAT really hurts.
No, but Imperial Physiques Magicka is fake, it's not really there.
There is a bug where your ressources desync when you swap weapons, but it's not really there.
I actually only have 53k magicka in these videos, where outside of IC I have 55k, because I simply use different food and master weapons.
And dual wield is not viable for Magicka Sorcs. it's not better than destro in any situation. Seriously, you play dual wield because you are tired of force shock spam and want to tell yourself the illusion, that crystal shard and curse is good burst.
The extra damage from dual wield and especially the extra set piece is a huge benefit. And don't get me wrong, destro staff is a horrible weapon line, dual wield is better for other classes. But simply not for Sorcerers, because we are the only class without a spammable ability that deals enough damage.
And pleeeease stop. No half decent player receives a Sorcerer burst combo these days, just no. Everyone blocks meteor and people are way too tanky to die from crystal shard and curse alone.
Me tired of Force Pulse spam? I do trials very often and have nothing against using Force Pulse. I use it on my magicka nightblade and my magicka sorc. So don't tell me I'm tired of doing whatever I was doing and that I'm telling myself illusions. Seems to me that you have no arguments. Only thing you say is that its not viable and never provide anything to back it up. You're very wrong when you say that Destro is a terrible skill line. Destro has 4 (out of 6) insanely strong skills. Elemental Blockade is one of the strongest ground placed DoTs in the game after liquid lightning and endless hail. Force Pulse is the best ranged spammable DPS ability. Elemental Drain is mandatory in every trial, without it, magicka DPS is impossible. Elemental Rage is the the second strongest ultimate in the game (behind only Standard of Might) in terms of DPS. The passives are definitely lackluster, but imagine if they were as good as the dual wield ones, no one would ever even think of bringing stamina damage dealers into trials. For PvP yeah, the skill line sucks.
Btw, my 15k frags against people in heavy with full impen say otherwise. You don't need a spammable ability, sorcerers never had a spammable ability. Trapping Webs was a poor excuse that hit only a little harder than Endless Fury. Inevitable Det had such a long cast time that if you didn't get interrupted you could consider yourself the luckiest person in Cyrodiil. Its possible to land a meteor, there's always a moment when you can't block. For example, after a roll dodge you're fully disabled of any skill use. Or while gap closing. Or after a CC break. There are plenty of moments where your character can't perform certain actions, so its always possible to make a meteor hit. Especially with Streak or Rune Prison. Even if the guy can block straight away, you could always CC him right on top of that nasty DoT and after that its GG and good night. Against noobs, you don't even need to think about the timing, guess what you're not going to 1vX good players. With lag its pretty much impossible to block a meteor, guess what Cyrodiil is laggy. So everyone is going to eat those meteors. Got a triple kill with a Shooting Star the other day, psychotic an confirm. Before you say whatever you were going to say about meteor only working because of lag, well destro ultimate is the same thing. If people could actually see the telegraph and the red circle they probably would get out of the damn thing. On xbox, a destro ult just freezes the whole game for everyone around you. So lag is a big factor in fights and when you can use it to your advantage, why not do it?
PS: so if Imperial Physique is broken, why do you run it? Seems stupid to me. If you have a stronger set-up why don't you use it?Edited by Izaki on December 15, 2016 2:30AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Minalan in open world PvP pets on PC can be great I hear! I am console and prefer dueling so I'm not gonna know as much now a days bout open world.
But in duels, especially now that they have the 3 hit minimum bug resolved, pets are extremely powerful. The healing pets wont die unless you forgot to do something about the third hit. And familiar is just awesome, many players have a newfound respect for his stun. I only use one pet any more fyi.
This kind of set up has a lot of options and can deal with more counters than the standard sorc.
I've stepped away from the build myself, I feel it's a bit too OP - what @psychotic13 refuses to do, which I beg him to, because it's proc OPness... BUT I go x4 Alchemist x5 necro x2 IG - I drop resto staff for Destro, run Frost Staff and Clench sure it's pure offensive as DW is your other bar, but wards!
Did you know IG does 9k dmg in PvP pre dunmer and CP passives to an immobilized opponent at the small cost of clench and ward?
See if @psychotic13 was a cheesy as me, he could point out that IG is a hard counter to NBs and DKs (cloak remover and dk has low mobility - esp when using clench) and you can just add that into the mix of familiar, curse, and frag and SA
Edit: some uber cheese is when you slot skoria and familiar or SA proc it, but he ain't as mean as me.Edited by Waffennacht on December 15, 2016 2:40AM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.0 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »@psychotic13 You soul assaulted a friend of mine from our french guild in that first clip after the duels! And you didn't kill him just once, you killed him several times too?!?! Since when did you plan on starting a genocide of french people? You're going to have exterminate me too, you know that right?
Haha we had a few fights, they couldn't find our alliance camp. If you're on the opposition I'm fine with having to try and exterminate you to! Took me a while to beat you in a duel though. Soul Assault is very good open world, I feel like no one ever sees it coming and it does so much damage they don't have time to react.
Have to agree aswell, using the Destro ULT and imperial physique doesn't mean your build is supreme for 'serious gameplay and to be prepared for any situation' as @Dracane said. Imperial physique isn't for any situation it's for IC that's it, and there's no skill involved with the desto ult it's OP and everyone knows it. Not trying to take anything away from your video but when you tell me that my builds not viable because I'm using DW I'm going to question you.
Yeah Zeus was the guy that got me into the guild, cause I didn't even know there was a serious french trials guild (I was so sick of speaking english all the time lol). The guys often PvP nowadays cause apparently trying vMoL Hard mode is boring -_-. Yeah Soul Assault is okay, I'm staying with the Shooting Star for the extra 2% max magicka though
I didn't really mean it like that, I meant that while sustained pressure is good, more often than not, its not going to kill a tank. The destro ultimate is really what might give a staff set-up an advantage over dual wield, although a triple kill with a Shooting Star isn't too bad either IMHO and you get the ultimate back up much quicker too depending on how many things you've killed and touched. Imperial physique is a totally valid tactic though and for zerg busting, I wouldn't have worn anything different in IC. But that's in IC. What about Cyrodiil? My frags hit almost as hard as yours with 9k less max magicka, and psychotic probably hits harder than me with an Alchemist proc. Is it worth not doing any damage outside the ultimate? Or is the damage actually substantial? Legit questions, not criticism @Dracane.
The other day I had like 5 or 6 people running after me, all clunked up in the same spot, dropped my Shooting Star, Streaked through them, killed 3 (thats 60 ultimate back) and touched all of them (thats 60 or 72 ultimate back). Less than 10 seconds later I had a Shooting Star up again. So a dual wield set-up certainly has way less AoE potential than Dracane's build, but it has its advantages. Plus the burst is just so much smoother and stronger with dual wield
I may try shooting star over ice comet, the ULT you get back could come in useful. I'm not a fan of it in duels though it's gets blocked to often.
Its also fire damage, so thats 25% more damage against vampires, which makes it hit harder than Ice Comet against like 80% of the population in Cyrodiil. It does suck in duels, but I can't be bothered changing my set-up for a duel frankly lol.
I don't think it is fire damage. It may say, "Burn enemy from the inside with soulfire." But, right after that is says, "dealing [x] Magic Damage." So the description and the actual damage type do not match. I have never tested this to determine what it really is but I generaly go off what it says after the number.
Edit: Never mind. I was thinking you were talking about soul assault.Edited by Sheuib on December 15, 2016 9:47AM0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate pets so bad, and you actually make me want to try one out.
I think you should try the Familiar, if you don't like it you can just drop it again. I was at first skeptical of pets myself, they never interested me but I wanted to stack 50k Magicka for shields and necropotence was the easiest way to do it, best thing I've tried in a while, don't knock it till you've tried it!0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »I hate pets so bad, and you actually make me want to try one out.
I think you should try the Familiar, if you don't like it you can just drop it again. I was at first skeptical of pets myself, they never interested me but I wanted to stack 50k Magicka for shields and necropotence was the easiest way to do it, best thing I've tried in a while, don't knock it till you've tried it!
I tried it, all the pet did was get lost (where did he go now?!), stuck in terrain (duuuh), or die really stupid in a couple of hits. He never helped against gankers, got stunned easily and almost permanently. It ignored the pet command more than half of the time, and it was hilariously ineffective against human players. At no time was the pet worth spending the mana it cost to cast him or the precious slots to keep him.
Of course I was rolling outnumbered, but D.C. usually is late night. Sorry guys volatile familiar is horrible. For the same slot you can put in bound aegis and hit people even harder, I don't see any reason why not to.
One thing I'll give DW. It's harder to kill me using it. The max magicka is about the same in my staff build, but the staff build dies a hell of a lot more. I can't explain why, but it is.Edited by Minalan on December 15, 2016 2:52PM0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »I hate pets so bad, and you actually make me want to try one out.
I think you should try the Familiar, if you don't like it you can just drop it again. I was at first skeptical of pets myself, they never interested me but I wanted to stack 50k Magicka for shields and necropotence was the easiest way to do it, best thing I've tried in a while, don't knock it till you've tried it!
I tried it, all the pet did was get lost (where did he go now?!), stuck in terrain (duuuh), or die really stupid in a couple of hits. He never helped against gankers, got stunned easily and almost permanently. It ignored the pet command more than half of the time, and it was hilariously ineffective against human players. At no time was the pet worth spending the mana it cost to cast him or the precious slots to keep him.
Of course I was rolling outnumbered, but D.C. usually is late night. Sorry guys volatile familiar is horrible. For the same slot you can put in bound aegis and hit people even harder, I don't see any reason why not to.
One thing I'll give DW. It's harder to kill me using it. The max magicka is about the same in my staff build, but the staff build dies a hell of a lot more. I can't explain why, but it is.
Hmm, I only had that problem when I tried the twilight. Did you try it in duels at all?0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭dracane's video was sexier. duel wield can be powerful but when someone gages your burst damage then its highly unlikely you will win against top tier players. thats how i gage most fights. if i know they have really good burst then i make sure I apply my defenses more often than usually.1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.
@Dracane Didn't he say that the build was intended for small scale and duels?
And didn't you yourself remind everyone here that 1vX is not possible against good players? So dual wield is perfectly viable in 1vX situations.
Also what's the point of taking credit for killing a couple of noobs with the destro ult? Like seriously? Anyone can do that who knows what he's doing. 1vX is nothing special, I mean any Flawless Conqueror can do it, after all its the same as taking on a few mobs. Its hell of a lot of fun for sure, but bragging about it is unnecessary. It does demand concentration and quick reactions. But here you're telling someone who has been doing the exact same thing as you (meaning wiping solo 10 people) to not compare himself to you. I've been there and seen it, @psychotic13 has taken on groups by himself (cause I would end up dead) and wiped them without the destro ultimate using this exact build that he posted here. Just because he didn't catch the clips doesn't make him a worse player than you. The opposite has also happened, he'd end up dead and I'd have a bunch of idiots on me, and I'd take them out with my good old Shooting Star and no pets for the noobs to beat on to buy me time.
Wiping whole zergs of 50 people with a small group of 6 players, that's already more impressive, because that actually demands organization and team work as well as demanding everything you need in solo play.
Also don't take yourself too seriously. I mean if you think that magicka nightblades are really the best for vMA, just means you don't know much outside of PvP. Saying that magicka sorcerers don't do good DPS, is also nonsense as they are just as good as a magicka DK in terms of numbers (most of the time, even higher) and they are able to pull those numbers (50k+) from full range. Saying that heavy armor does more damage on a magicka sorc is pretty stupid too, as the Wrath passive doesn't actually work when you have a shield up. So you're a good player, but not very well informed. So stop being so up yourself and be a little open minded, will you? You don't know everything about the sorcerer class and stop acting like you do. None one does.
Here is the thing: go on and adapt your build for dual wield. Go out 1vXing and record the clips. I'm sure you'll get the same results. Then we'll argue about dual wield being viable or not. Don't tell me that you've already done it and what-not, just please do it, I'd like to see the results.
If you were talking about duels, well when you have a pet build, it doesn't really matter if you dual wild or not because the sustained pressure and the line of sight is there to help you place your burst. A non pet dual wield build, which is what I run? It relies on your opponent to make a mistake, so against a good player, a fight can take ages. But mistakes are human and they will happen at some point.Edited by Izaki on December 15, 2016 4:07PM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.
Phrasing! Is that not a thing anymore?
dracane's video was sexier. duel wield can be powerful but when someone gages your burst damage then its highly unlikely you will win against top tier players. thats how i gage most fights. if i know they have really good burst then i make sure I apply my defenses more often than usually.
Her posts are too!Edited by Minalan on December 15, 2016 3:53PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand why sustainability would be any different with destro rather than DW.
The regen stats would be the same, I don't know many players that heavy attack destro main for sustain. Resto heavy attacks do that, and both versions run it.
Destro offers one spammable ability (that's mediocre damage) it doesn't offer sustain.
Ward, Curse, Pet =3 abilities = very good chances of frag proc. No need for a spammable destro move to proc frag.
Resto can't be reflected or dodged meaning much better for resources than destro heavy attack, plus ticks higher than lightning staff.
My point is sustain and pressure can be maintained with a resto staff - which both versions run.
I really don't see why there would be such a supposed difference.2 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am going to weigh in. When my main sorc Makkir ran a DW Lich build, it worked great in 1vX which we all know means 1vPotatoes. I had a VERY hard time with good players on a DW build. There is too much of a stamina meta, too much mitigation thru shuffle and dodge rolls to make burst work against any player with decent skill level.
DW has a great place in PvE, but it has an awkward fit in Cyrodiil. To be honest, it's a stamina weapon tree and it should have nothing to do with magicka. All the more argument for bringing staves up to par with other weapons and adding maybe some other magicka based weapons.
More and more people are tuning in to the value of control abilities like Clench that staves have to offer. Frost staff open up a way to handle the ridiculous amount of mobility some of these stamina builds have, something that should be had by any fancy class in a dress (light armor passives should offer the best mobility). When combo'd with infernal guardian makes for great potential to set up staff burst.
Running burning spellweave with infernal guard and a fire staff makes a hard hitting set up in this Vampire infested Cyrodiil.
You don't have this versatility with DW.
Please undertand, the most fun I have ever had in this game was on my Lich DW setup:
https://youtu.be/rcXJK0ClaFo
But it just doesn't work against skilled players, and the general populace in Cyrodiil is getting better and better, potatoes are fewer and few.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.
I'm not claiming to be the best, I said the build works for me several times, but you can't accept that (I guess that's a typical woman thing to do) you'll just keep moaning and moaning 'don't even compare myself to you' like just be quiet your a child.
Maybe you should take a break from this game and seek some sunlight, you're obviously the best in the world /sarcasm
You think your good cause you used the Destro ULT on some noobs, lol you're actually comical.
0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.
I'm not claiming to be the best, I said the build works for me several times, but you can't accept that (I guess that's a typical woman thing to do) you'll just keep moaning and moaning 'don't even compare myself to you' like just be quiet your a child.
Maybe you should take a break from this game and seek some sunlight, you're obviously the best in the world /sarcasm
You think your good cause you used the Destro ULT on some noobs, lol you're actually comical.
You two need to either duel, get a room, or both. Seriously it's a play style thing, use whatever works. IMO I think staff is better for solo, and hard hitting DW has a ton to offer groups with negate slotted.
Lets be honest here though, the whole premise of DW build is basically glitching ridiculous high damage off of a BIS stamina weapon set. It's because the devs of this game are busy coddling their precious stamina players, they haven't noticed that sorcs can pull off 18K frags with DW.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.
I'm not claiming to be the best, I said the build works for me several times, but you can't accept that (I guess that's a typical woman thing to do) you'll just keep moaning and moaning 'don't even compare myself to you' like just be quiet your a child.
Maybe you should take a break from this game and seek some sunlight, you're obviously the best in the world /sarcasm
You think your good cause you used the Destro ULT on some noobs, lol you're actually comical.
You two need to either duel, get a room, or both. Seriously it's a play style thing, use whatever works. IMO I think staff is better for solo, and hard hitting DW has a ton to offer groups with negate slotted.
Lets be honest here though, the whole premise of DW build is basically glitching ridiculous high damage off of a BIS stamina weapon set. It's because the devs of this game are busy coddling their precious stamina players, they haven't noticed that sorcs can pull off 18K frags with DW.
Duel in a room? Lol.
Seriously though, all of you guys' playstyle is WAY different than mine. I don't even stack shields lol. It's a playstyle thing.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »Guys, the burst damage of DW is simply not enough. All that theoretical damage math goes down the drain when your opponent blocks or dodges for a second.
Even when DW sorcs were viable, around Orsinium, the general opinion was that destro was more competitive since it wasn't countered as hard. That was before Trapping Webs was made obsolete, when Streak dropped block, when we had a magical Dawnbreaker finisher, and when pure damage sets like Julianos were maintainable in PvP, before SOMEONE decided to swing a cost increase bat at us.
Speaking of, I feel a lot like Glen in regards to sorc nerfs in the past.
You can't just burst any correctly geared player down these days. You have to apply pressure and gain the upper hand, then time your burst and pray to Auri-El the stars may align. This forces sorcs into destro and is a big reason why they're struggling, EotS apart.
Also, Mina, you don't empower every frag with DW. You empower with Entropy or very rarely Meteor. You re-apply Entropy every 15 seconds for the DOT, everything else is a dps loss. The time it takes you to cast Entropy just for empower is better spent on Fury. Or a shield.
Curse can't be empowered. Neither Meteor. Thaumaturge also doesn't strengthen pseudo-dots like they used to. Speaking of Curse and Proxy det. You're also missing medium attacks for damage, enchants/poison, resource gain, ultimate gain and status effects. And that additional set bonus is meaningless with lich proc and set jewelry now.
Seriously, DW sorcs these days are not even at 33% percent of their former strength. They are laughable and not competitive at all.
Play a DW build if you want, but don't you dare spreading misinformation about it and then even go as far as calling out one of the very best sorc players we have.
You're the one spreading misinformation here mate. Saying that dual wield sorcs aren't competitive at all and in your words "laughable" is well... laughable because you clearly haven't even tried the build that is being discussed. That "theoretical damage math" is what the game is built on, its all math and formulas. If you theoretically have the damage potential to take down someone with 30k, then its only a matter of time before you pull of your burst correctly.
Fyi you actually gain an extra enchant on dual wield, don't know if you read previous posts but apparently not. You know you can swing those swords and you should swing your swords, just like templars do. Ultimate gain isn't an issue if you know what you're doing and actually swap bars often enough to apply your Curse with a light attack (because you probably haven't noticed, but it is on the back bar in this build, so you do proc the ultimate gain from resto light attacking every 4 seconds, which is more often than needed).
Oh and yeah, I too just called out one of the best sorc players you have, because well... although maybe "good" not exactly well informed.
Well... "mate"... I have played my fair share of DW sorc and I have toyed around with pets and had Curse on the back bar and everything else you're discussing here. It didn't work well when DW was at its peak, it works way less now.
If you wanna play that way, by all means, do so, but expect backlash.
Just because it didn't work well for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work. Takes a while to get used to as it's a completely different playstyle from your normal destro sorc, and 'toying around' isn't going to give you success you need to put the time in to get good with it.
But as for saying it's laughable? Not competitive? And don't I dare spread misinformation lol who are you? I've never said this build is to 1vX it's better at duels/small scale as it's primarily single target damage. I've shown it can work in both of those scenarios against good players, why you can't accept that I don't know. I would love to duel some of you who say the burst isn't enough, how did you come to that conclusion? Cause I can get around 20k Frags in PvP, that with curse, the damage from the familiar, an endless fury and Dawnbreaker will wipe out pretty much anything.
So you're the one spreading 'misinformation' so just wind your neck in
Honey, you have killed some unexperienced players with it and think, that it's good. You can use anything vs bad or medium players and succeed.
But dual wield Sorc is not viable vs good enemies.
Well 'honey', all of the people in the video were decent players with most being at the cap and having a good rank, the video you shared half of them are under cap, and you have to Destro ULT them with imperial physique. Can you just not comment in this thread now thanks.
Unlike you, I was against many enemies at the same time.
Don't even compare myself to you. You have killed some noobs that don't know what they are doing, I have killed 10 of them at the same time, many times.
Rank and Cp means nothing. I was against a max level player earlier. He was constantly fighting my pets, without realizing that he was fighting a players pets (mine) He just came again and again and let me swallow his stones.
I'm not claiming to be the best, I said the build works for me several times, but you can't accept that (I guess that's a typical woman thing to do) you'll just keep moaning and moaning 'don't even compare myself to you' like just be quiet your a child.
Maybe you should take a break from this game and seek some sunlight, you're obviously the best in the world /sarcasm
You think your good cause you used the Destro ULT on some noobs, lol you're actually comical.
You two need to either duel, get a room, or both. Seriously it's a play style thing, use whatever works. IMO I think staff is better for solo, and hard hitting DW has a ton to offer groups with negate slotted.
Lets be honest here though, the whole premise of DW build is basically glitching ridiculous high damage off of a BIS stamina weapon set. It's because the devs of this game are busy coddling their precious stamina players, they haven't noticed that sorcs can pull off 18K frags with DW.
She's raised her opinion, which is fine and she prefers the destro which is also fine. I only posted a build with DW and she keeps going on and on telling me it's not viable it's quite annoying, I've said what works for you is optimal for you and vice versa. I've heard her opinion I don't need to see it again everytime I come back to this thread.0 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭Edited by Kutsuu on December 15, 2016 5:00PMPC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I2-14y6-jM