To all of you upset by the down time...

jaye63 · December 2016

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Stuff deleted for space conservation

Then you know that there is always the possibility that the testing wont always show a flaw. One wrong character could be a ticking bomb that doesnt get noticed til it's too late. And that's for a single platform. They're coding for 3.

vamp_emily · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

Y'all act like you've never seen down time in an MMO or additional downtime over an unexpected error. In other words... y'all act like you've never played an MMO before. Every time there is unexpected downtime there is the usual few posts...

For some reason this made me think of work. I wonder what the owners of the company would do if I took down the servers for 8 hours. I wonder if they would cry

I think servers should never go down.

jaye63 · December 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Or on the flip side maybe he just played mmos that did a much better job with maintenance and communication. They are out there.

And there are much worse. Like I said... I've been playing PC games since before there were hard drives. I've also been into PCs, Servers and IT for years as well.

All Im trying to get across is that stuff happens and to whine about it doesnt help or make them want to fix it faster. If I were the manager at ZOS, I would pay everyone to go to lunch for 2 hrs and then come back and fix it with all of the insults and whining Im seeing.

jaye63 · December 2016

Powerhand wrote: »

I'll just leave this here...

You're my new Hero... Trolling the troll? I love you man!

jaye63 · December 2016

vamp_emily wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Y'all act like you've never seen down time in an MMO or additional downtime over an unexpected error. In other words... y'all act like you've never played an MMO before. Every time there is unexpected downtime there is the usual few posts...

For some reason this made me think of work. I wonder what the owners of the company would do if I took down the servers for 8 hours. I wonder if they would cry

I think servers should never go down.

OMG! DO IT!!! Wait for April 1st so they will wonder forever if it was a joke or real.

I dont know if ZOS does this or not but a lot of MMOs rent out server space and dont have 100% control over the server maintenance. Insert issues with long distance update uploads here.

Tavore1138 · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Seriously... If you were that good, you would be working there already, if any of the same ideas that have been tossed about for years

And still we get double maintenance fiascoes. I don't care if there is downtime. Right now I'm chilling while waiting for some yummy butternut squash to finish up in the oven and doing xmas shopping on the internet, but seriously, we had a maintenance yesterday that messed things up and introduced some ridiculous lag into the game. And now today we have another one to fix what they broke or bugs that they created. This is pretty atrocious. They have a test server that apparently they don't even use. Do they even test their patches? Or do they just roll them out and let us be the beta? Perhaps they couldn't get the amount of virtual users through testing to see what really would happen in game once we are all playing, but I suspect they didn't even test it at all. And that's the thing. They give us a patch to fix stuff and inevitably it breaks stuff so we get more down time. Without even getting into how thoroughly inefficient this is, it seems a bit absurd because it commonly happens when they give us a patch. It's possibly why they started minimizing how often they do them. Again, I don't care that the game is down. I'm doing other things instead. I care that it speaks volumes about what their actual 'testing' process might be (or might not be at all) and that this is how they have chosen to run their company, caring more about crown crates than testing patches. Yes, patches should be tested. They have a PTS. Why aren't they using it?

Do you know anything about coding a video game? Do you know anything about maintaining a server? Lets start at the very beginning ... at 80-150WPM, you will make mistakes and there is no spell check in coding. Sometimes you get bad equipment. Sometimes you push a restart before you actually have it fixed only to find it 30 minutes after and have to shut down again. Any number of things could be the issue. Your nonsensical rant tells me you know nothing about actually running a game, game company or a business.

I was going to just drive past this thread but this level of dumbarsery can not be allowed to go unchallenged!

Look 'friend' I am not a game coder... I am also not a plumber but if I pay someone to fix my toilet and then when I flush it comes out of the kitchen sink I don't need to be a plumber to know they screwed up and call them on it.

I don't have any special issue with whatever downtime is happening right now but illogical statements couched as superior wisdom like yours just make my eyes itch.

jaye63 · December 2016

Tavore1138 wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Seriously... If you were that good, you would be working there already, if any of the same ideas that have been tossed about for years

And still we get double maintenance fiascoes. I don't care if there is downtime. Right now I'm chilling while waiting for some yummy butternut squash to finish up in the oven and doing xmas shopping on the internet, but seriously, we had a maintenance yesterday that messed things up and introduced some ridiculous lag into the game. And now today we have another one to fix what they broke or bugs that they created. This is pretty atrocious. They have a test server that apparently they don't even use. Do they even test their patches? Or do they just roll them out and let us be the beta? Perhaps they couldn't get the amount of virtual users through testing to see what really would happen in game once we are all playing, but I suspect they didn't even test it at all. And that's the thing. They give us a patch to fix stuff and inevitably it breaks stuff so we get more down time. Without even getting into how thoroughly inefficient this is, it seems a bit absurd because it commonly happens when they give us a patch. It's possibly why they started minimizing how often they do them. Again, I don't care that the game is down. I'm doing other things instead. I care that it speaks volumes about what their actual 'testing' process might be (or might not be at all) and that this is how they have chosen to run their company, caring more about crown crates than testing patches. Yes, patches should be tested. They have a PTS. Why aren't they using it?

Do you know anything about coding a video game? Do you know anything about maintaining a server? Lets start at the very beginning ... at 80-150WPM, you will make mistakes and there is no spell check in coding. Sometimes you get bad equipment. Sometimes you push a restart before you actually have it fixed only to find it 30 minutes after and have to shut down again. Any number of things could be the issue. Your nonsensical rant tells me you know nothing about actually running a game, game company or a business.

I was going to just drive past this thread but this level of dumbarsery can not be allowed to go unchallenged!

Look 'friend' I am not a game coder... I am also not a plumber but if I pay someone to fix my toilet and then when I flush it comes out of the kitchen sink I don't need to be a plumber to know they screwed up and call them on it.

I don't have any special issue with whatever downtime is happening right now but illogical statements couched as superior wisdom like yours just make my eyes itch.

Well, *friend*, that's YOUR plumbing. You dont own the game. You cant even play it if you dont have internet. You signed a TOS and an EULA that you didnt read. You have the wrong idea about what reality is.

xXSilverDragonXx · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Stuff deleted for space conservation

Then you know that there is always the possibility that the testing wont always show a flaw. One wrong character could be a ticking bomb that doesnt get noticed til it's too late. And that's for a single platform. They're coding for 3.

Yes but again, testing makes it much less likely for this to happen. Sure, stuff may happen, but as I stated in my initial post before someone thought he could bully me thinking I don't know jack about any of this - that this happens after so many of their patches and does't seem to happen with other MMOs tells me they do not have any kind of testing process or if they do it is rather flawed. Or perhaps that the coding here is such garbage that this is just going to happen rather often no matter what they do. Or perhaps they have nothing but a bunch of interns running the system. I don't know exactly but if this was how it was bound to go, then it would be something that happened in ALL MMOs and it does not, as stated by people who have played countless MMOs in this forum time and again. Perhaps they should recruit some of the people working for those MMOs to help them improve their process. XD

KingMagaw · December 2016

Downtime isnt mandatory for gaming companies but i can personally accept downtime on a few reasons:

After the downtime there is actually a fix to something, not more broken mechanics.

E$O giving ETA'S and time frames for the work they are supposedly doing. If you say 1 hour ETA and while working on it, find another problem, we as the player base who support the game should be notified another problem has been encountered and a new ETA will be given.

Since ALL the Z0$ DEVs here are incompetent of simple communication with the player base who support the game then i don't know where to go honestly. In this day and age, considering a forum post takes 30 seconds in updating with a new ETA, if something this simple cant be done then its a complete lack of respect from company to player base.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Either your not being given the time to do above or you simply dont care. I highlighted this is yesterdays post about maintenance.

AlMcFly · December 2016

The extra downtime isn't that annoying. What's annoying are the trolls chatting in-game in Zone chat last night trying to deny that there was zero lag in any zone. The delayed reaction of NPC's to my skills last night was painful for several hours. Of course the customary reaction is for people to blame your PC.

Osteos · December 2016

vamp_emily wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Y'all act like you've never seen down time in an MMO or additional downtime over an unexpected error. In other words... y'all act like you've never played an MMO before. Every time there is unexpected downtime there is the usual few posts...

For some reason this made me think of work. I wonder what the owners of the company would do if I took down the servers for 8 hours. I wonder if they would cry

I think servers should never go down.

If I worked at Zos I think I would turn them off every once in awhile just for funsies. Some forumites love to get worked up with self righteous indignation

Sometimes it makes my day reading the forums.

Edited for fun

Tavore1138 · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Seriously... If you were that good, you would be working there already, if any of the same ideas that have been tossed about for years

And still we get double maintenance fiascoes. I don't care if there is downtime. Right now I'm chilling while waiting for some yummy butternut squash to finish up in the oven and doing xmas shopping on the internet, but seriously, we had a maintenance yesterday that messed things up and introduced some ridiculous lag into the game. And now today we have another one to fix what they broke or bugs that they created. This is pretty atrocious. They have a test server that apparently they don't even use. Do they even test their patches? Or do they just roll them out and let us be the beta? Perhaps they couldn't get the amount of virtual users through testing to see what really would happen in game once we are all playing, but I suspect they didn't even test it at all. And that's the thing. They give us a patch to fix stuff and inevitably it breaks stuff so we get more down time. Without even getting into how thoroughly inefficient this is, it seems a bit absurd because it commonly happens when they give us a patch. It's possibly why they started minimizing how often they do them. Again, I don't care that the game is down. I'm doing other things instead. I care that it speaks volumes about what their actual 'testing' process might be (or might not be at all) and that this is how they have chosen to run their company, caring more about crown crates than testing patches. Yes, patches should be tested. They have a PTS. Why aren't they using it?

Do you know anything about coding a video game? Do you know anything about maintaining a server? Lets start at the very beginning ... at 80-150WPM, you will make mistakes and there is no spell check in coding. Sometimes you get bad equipment. Sometimes you push a restart before you actually have it fixed only to find it 30 minutes after and have to shut down again. Any number of things could be the issue. Your nonsensical rant tells me you know nothing about actually running a game, game company or a business.

I was going to just drive past this thread but this level of dumbarsery can not be allowed to go unchallenged!

Look 'friend' I am not a game coder... I am also not a plumber but if I pay someone to fix my toilet and then when I flush it comes out of the kitchen sink I don't need to be a plumber to know they screwed up and call them on it.

I don't have any special issue with whatever downtime is happening right now but illogical statements couched as superior wisdom like yours just make my eyes itch.

Well, *friend*, that's YOUR plumbing. You dont own the game. You cant even play it if you dont have internet. You signed a TOS and an EULA that you didnt read. You have the wrong idea about what reality is.

No I pay for access to a game and if it is not working I can spot that it is not working without an advanced degree in game programming and am able, should I wish, to comment on that fact.

I am aware that an internet connection is needed - if you think about it for a few seconds you will see that I have one as I am using it to post these comments...

I have read the relevant agreements, but even if I had not, I made no claims that ZoS have broken any of those with this or any other downtime so not sure why you think mentioning it is even relevant?

Not going to comment on the last sentence - it's a null statement of no value.

Sigtric · December 2016

#7 is my hero and deserves cookies

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Or on the flip side maybe he just played mmos that did a much better job with maintenance and communication. They are out there.

And there are much worse. Like I said... I've been playing PC games since before there were hard drives. I've also been into PCs, Servers and IT for years as well.

All Im trying to get across is that stuff happens and to whine about it doesnt help or make them want to fix it faster. If I were the manager at ZOS, I would pay everyone to go to lunch for 2 hrs and then come back and fix it with all of the insults and whining Im seeing.

Yes that will teach us. How clever.

AlexTech0x · December 2016

Did u get 1 month eso plus or a crown crate to put this *** here?

Dang ZOS lovers... u getting nothing out of this.

gard · December 2016

Osteos wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Y'all act like you've never seen down time in an MMO or additional downtime over an unexpected error. In other words... y'all act like you've never played an MMO before. Every time there is unexpected downtime there is the usual few posts...

For some reason this made me think of work. I wonder what the owners of the company would do if I took down the servers for 8 hours. I wonder if they would cry

I think servers should never go down.

If I worked at Zos I think I would turn them off every once in awhile just for funsies. Some forumites love to get worked up with self righteous indignation Sometimes it makes my day reading the forums.

Edited for fun

Sometimes at work I do turn off a server or two. If I really want to have fun I'll unplug a fiber cable from a san, or maybe unplug a switch. Not really for funsies though, we test that seamless failover works once per quarter.

Nobody knows though because my systems are highly available.

Updating is done live, too, with the ability to roll back if needed. All of this is really costly though and I doubt ZOS has invested that much in their infrastructure.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · December 2016

I love when people complain about people complaining about downtime.

Katahdin · December 2016

I wish my biggest problem/concern in life was video game time.

eaton68_ESO · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

eaton68_ESO wrote: »

This is pure ignorance...I've played quite a few mmos over the last 16 years and this game is simply the worst. Complaining about people complaining and telling them other things they should do. Don't be a fool, man.

I call BS. Go play DDO. I could list 100 other games that are horrible. TESO is just fine. You have no clue what it takes to run a business, code a game, maintain IT, maintain equipment and ensure security for the clients information. Dont act like you do or you would be on the same page I am.

And FYI- thank you for making it easy for me to be #7

They say ignorance is bliss. This and the original post takes it to a new extreme.
Done with this foolishness. Enjoy your post.

aldriq · December 2016

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I love when people complain about people complaining about downtime.

Complaining about people complaining about downtime is the new meta

Wanderer202 · December 2016

While the very long downtimes with this game are... not always ideal, the person suggesting that a public test server will always fix the issue is also absolutely wrong. When an issue is lag related, as this one was, even with a public test server it is impossible to tell how the servers will react once the actual real world server load is playing on it, as only a fraction of players actually tend to use the PTS in the first place. A PTS is great for testing general patch stability, but terrible for server load management testing.

Eldorhaan · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

Sogreth wrote: »

. Yes, crap does happen and it needs to be fixed. But there is NO reason for this much downtime
.

You realize that's a contradiction?

I'm not complaining about ZOS. I understand what it takes to keep something like this running bug free, hardware fail free, DDOS attack free, and on and on.

You arent just dealing with plugging in and playing. You are dealing with keeping people's information secure. You are dealing with a fine line of modding and being able to hack the game. This isnt your usual MMO where the game company controls 100% of what's going on here. You have no clue of what it takes to deal with this business. That's right, I said business. Which totally blows your *if they cared about it* argument. You just want to be whining to take out your frustration at not being able to play. Grow up Jr.

We don't have to understand why, this is not our business, we just complain as the other MMO can do it so why they can't? So we complain about their service, that is a mess.
Just for comparison, on GW1 not the 2 you can play when they do a patch, mostly 500mb. When the update is finish (during your play) you receive a message asking to restart your client to download the patch...

So we are complaining that they don't put the effort to do it like the rest of the other MMO, this is just a customer reaction, the rest of complication of coding and gap they have, well this is not our business.

jaye63 · December 2016

Eldorhaan wrote: »

jaye63 wrote: »

Sogreth wrote: »

. Yes, crap does happen and it needs to be fixed. But there is NO reason for this much downtime
.

You realize that's a contradiction?

I'm not complaining about ZOS. I understand what it takes to keep something like this running bug free, hardware fail free, DDOS attack free, and on and on.

You arent just dealing with plugging in and playing. You are dealing with keeping people's information secure. You are dealing with a fine line of modding and being able to hack the game. This isnt your usual MMO where the game company controls 100% of what's going on here. You have no clue of what it takes to deal with this business. That's right, I said business. Which totally blows your *if they cared about it* argument. You just want to be whining to take out your frustration at not being able to play. Grow up Jr.

We don't have to understand why, this is not our business, we just complain as the other MMO can do it so why they can't? So we complain about their service, that is a mess.
Just for comparison, on GW1 not the 2 you can play when they do a patch, mostly 500mb. When the update is finish (during your play) you receive a message asking to restart your client to download the patch...

So we are complaining that they don't put the effort to do it like the rest of the other MMO, this is just a customer reaction, the rest of complication of coding and gap they have, well this is not our business.

Dont have to understand why? Really? Well, with all of the complaining, ZOS is telling people who aren't close to finishing something to pick it up so they dont lose customers. And the Ironic part of that is that those people complaining are so addicted to the game that unless they couldnt actually play the game at all, they would continue to play the game, bugs, lag, flat out broken things and all. How do I know this? I watched DDO, probably the best DND MMO ever, turn into a sloppy mess that isnt even as interesting as tetris. And I played it for 7 years and spent thousands on it.

Let them do what they need to do to fix it and dont complain so much. ESPECIALLY if you cant do it.

svartorn · December 2016

I realize downtime is part of the MMO experience.

I'm pissed this is day 3 of downtime and when I log back in no bugs will be fixed.

Remorseless · December 2016

jaye63 wrote: »

Y'all act like you've never seen down time in an MMO or additional downtime over an unexpected error. In other words... y'all act like you've never played an MMO before. Every time there is unexpected downtime there is the usual few posts...
#1 condemning the devs
#2 demanding compensation for not being able to play
#3 ridiculous ideas on how to prevent downtime
#4 comparing the MMO that is down to another MMO that is up(but also had unexpected downtime)
#5 a display of knowledge on how they could do better(the pseudo job app)
#6 a display of a complete lack of knowledge on how it all works
And #7 the one guy that trolls all of the other 6 because he's bored.

Seriously... If you were that good, you would be working there already, if any of the same ideas that have been tossed about for years would actually work, they would do them and if anything you say about it actually mattered, an employee would be letting you know how good and/or thoughtful your input was.

Y'all really need to chill. Im playing microsux card games, cribbage, spades, puzzle... still on the pc but not worrying about the downtime because I know that they'll fix it and I'll be playing again shortly. And in the greater scheme of things... even a week would be shortly compared to the amount of time I intend to play this game. Since August I have over 1000 hours in the game and foresee that kind of time spent for the next several years whether there is new content or not. I enjoy Elderscrolls that much. I have the complete collection and have been playing computer games since before there were hard drives.

Stop being so impatient and play something else for a couple of hours. Or better yet, go outside. Yes I know... the graphics are awesome but the gameplay sucks. But sitting here like the chick on the myervins commercial outside the closed door repeatedly saying *open open open...* isnt doing anyone any good.

Kattemynte · December 2016

Hey guys.. hey.. hey... There is also going to be downtime tomorrow for the New Life Festival! XD

Recremen · December 2016

I love when people complaining about maintenance are like "ZOS FIX YOUR GAME" and it's like... honey, that's what they're doing.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · December 2016

Recremen wrote: »

I love when people complaining about maintenance are like "ZOS FIX YOUR GAME" and it's like... honey, that's what they're trying to do.

Balamoor · December 2016

It's really no use to call this out.

I think a lot of us who have been here since beta understand that there is this Cell of GW2 fanatics (some speculate that they are compensated) that purchased the game to gain access to the forums.

Their mission is to bash the game, spread dissent and to spin everything in a negative light. Do a forum search on these constant complainers see if they ever once said anything positive about ESO.

I'm not talking about longtime forum people that have both acknowledged the positive things and took issue with the negative things the developers have done.

I'm talking about the "players" that spew venom until they get banned and a new account shows up a hour later with the exact same message of hate.

This type of guerrilla marketing seldom works and isn't working here, but it isn't from a lack of trying.

Panomania · December 2016

And a bit condescending. For me, it has nothing to do with the actual downtime. It's the fact that they waited 8-9 hours to address the issues because their employees needed their beauty sleep.

Wow. That was....words fail me. Self centered? Asinine? Remarkable douchebaggery? Gods forbid a company should let their employees spend time with their families....eat...sleep.....rest....recover. Come on, guys! Some adolescent smock coker needs his gaming fix!

Also consider that it may take actual time to find the core issue and program to resolve it.

This is pure ignorance...I've played quite a few mmos over the last 16 years and this game is simply the worst. Complaining about people complaining and telling them other things they should do. Don't be a fool, man.

Sorry, gotta call bull on this one. Name these games, because I have played most major MMO's out today and I can recall issues every bit as deep as what you see here.....especially early on in these game's life cycles (I still remember the early days with that snowstorm company's big game). The only difference with ZM is they really communicate poorly, but that may be intentional. Taking the time to explain things to the incredible imbeciles who post complaints here would only serve to confuse and further enrage them to the point that they smash their safety helmets into their keyboards in angry frustration, and I doubt they want the lawsuits.