BALANCE BY XIN

Xinthisis · December 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Agree with all of these.

Good post, OP.

(PS. Fix dragon Blood!)

I didnt discuss individual classes and skills as much because it would pollute the point of the post. I do believe zos is working on mag dk fixes for next patch, so didnt mention. Keep your fingers crossed.

Xinthisis · December 2016

boundsy88 wrote: »

agree on all points. though the bashable heavy attacks should only be brought back if the resto heavy duration is reduced. only for the sake of balance in duels and the fact that sustain is always worse on magicka builds. ALL melee weapons have a shorter charge on heavy attacks so its only fair that magicka get the same treatment.

I used to use the increased heavy attack speed trait on my resto staves back then because of that. Also used haste on a nb. Was an interesting time back then. I agree there needs to be a look into it. Then again, if you're running out of resources and forced to heavy attack if a player is able to bash you out of it they should.

Kutsuu · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Hmm I'm not totally sure about the bashing heavy attacks thing. This is part of what made my old 1h/shield builds so powerful. I'm already weaving light>attack>bash - you dare to start winding up a medium weave or a heavy attack and you're getting slammed by a 4-8k bash, no skill required. I just weave like I always weave. Not sure how to solve that concern, really.

As far as the item to only allow armor abilities to work with 5-piece of that type, I strongly agree. This alone brings Heavy Armor vs Medium Armor/Light Armor balance back into a great spot. No harness magicka for HA mag builds and no shuffle for HA stam builds. NBs still having access to major evasion would probably cause an uproar... but IMO that's their recompense for not having major mending or crit surge, which all the other builds have at least one of.

Sword and shield has always been far too powerful, that is just an issue with the way it is designed. However, unbashable heavy attacks is an issue in it of itself. Bring back bashable heavy attacks, and nerf bash damage. That would be the solution.

This kind of dodges the point that weaving bashes removes any skill component to bashing heavy attacks, and just punishes anyone who chooses to try heavy attacking. I suppose you'd have to save heavy attacks for only when the opponent is CC'd or not in melee range - assuming they don't run Venom Arrow or Crushing Shock, which you can bet will become mainstays in such an environment. Another case to this is that someone could easily run more sustain and weave bashes with DW or 2h - it simply gives so much benefit if you can bash heavy attacks that just weaving them is ideal.

IMO heavy attacks already have the detractor that they take time to wind up and have very obvious animations. I feel like a solution somewhere in the middle would be the best, like 4-5 seconds of off balance (minus the stun like in PVE) if someone blocks your heavy attack. That would make a set like Armor of Truth a little more viable in PVP, and adds a skill component to countering heavy attacks.

idk · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Minalan · December 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

idk · December 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Good observation

Most are times of the threads suggesting changes in this manner are often from a single perspective regardless of it being nerf what I let kill me over and over of the observation you made.

In the nature of this thread, balance is not simple and as such simple fixes will not work.

Izaki · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

Been playing since launch, been through it all. Here are the changes needed and are also VIABLE for zos to actually implement. I know we all want a 1.5 or 1.6 return but that's just not happening folks.

1. Make armor abilities usable only while in 5 pieces of that armor type. (5 medium=shuffle. No shuffle for 5 heavy, or 5 light)
2. Remove the max stat increases from CP. Its like having soft caps again, makes the game easier for zos to balance.
3. Bring back bash/interrupt-able heavy attacks. Skilled play please.
4. Nonrefreshable shields. If a person wants to waste magic on a shield that has 2k left on it, let them recast that 2k shield. Not a full 11k shield. Skilled play please.
5. Nerf Unchained passive. cc break should= 80% reduced cost on ONE ability. Not 3 seconds of essentially free casts.

Now, I know the first thing people will talk about is "What about tava's dks? How are they going to dodge attacks if they cant use shuffle, or evasion?!" Well, DK's ash cloud (cinder storm) used to have miss chance on it. How about just give one of its morphs the Major Evasion buff for allies standing in its radius?

With the way zos balances this game it will be impossible to accomplish with ever increasing exponential resource pools. CP giving more max stats adds on to the problem. Especially with the new sets that get added in.

Anyone that knows what it was like to bash/interrupt a person doing a heavy resto attack on you while they were low on magicka agrees this needs to come back. (You get to bash those 2h heavy attacks too)

All the nerfs to shields and damage and healing is all linked to the lack of skill based gameplay. Shields used to be unrefreshable. This means that you cast your 10k(it was 1k back then.) hardened and say it gets hit for 6k(would be 600. I miss the old days. ) damage, if you were to recast the shield you would only have a 4k shield. You'd waste the magicka. Atm its a push this button for this uncrittable, ability non procable buffer. (RIP SIPHONING ATTACKS STILL NOT PROCCING ON SHIELDS)

3 seconds=3 abilities for anyone with good animation cancelling. 3 free casts for getting cc'd. CCing someone used to be a good thing, in some cases its better to not cc them at all. Especially if someone is in reactive.

There are probably a bunch more but the most blatant and thought out fixes that come to mind are here.

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

I actually agree with everything you said here. One problem about shields and HoTs though... On PC it might be simple to judge the recasts with buff trackers. On console, the visuals in a laggy environment are nearly inexistant and the health bar disappears when you have full health fully shielded up. So #BuffTrackersForConsole and then I'm happy with the shield and HoT change you've proposed.

Not too sure about the CP <=> max stat scaling though. Soft caps might be nice, but is it really a possible outcome from ZOS? I think we can keep dreaming.

Xinthisis · December 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

lucky_Sage · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

@Xinthisis

just because I never cared about testing one aspect of cp that wouldn't matter of knowledge of the game.
your point 1 is good maybe 6. but the rest is wrong even if they took max stat of cp it wouldn't fix much of the problems cp cuase the whole system isn't made to make you specialize. that's the problem with it you sacrifice nothing and game everything with it the whole system needs changed.
I don't think evasion fits a dk play style I think immovability fits better. but that could cause balance issues.
but one problem with point 1 it would mess up 95% of tank builds in pve

Dracane · December 2016

Non recastable shields is a horrible idea, shields are too weak already.
Make them unstackable. No braindead ideas please.

Xinthisis · December 2016

@Dracane mmm, I personally feel like a non stacking nerf would be worse. What if some random dk casts igneous near you. Now you cant use hardened. Or healing.. It would be a tricky situation.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

Hmm I'm not totally sure about the bashing heavy attacks thing. This is part of what made my old 1h/shield builds so powerful. I'm already weaving light>attack>bash - you dare to start winding up a medium weave or a heavy attack and you're getting slammed by a 4-8k bash, no skill required. I just weave like I always weave. Not sure how to solve that concern, really.

As far as the item to only allow armor abilities to work with 5-piece of that type, I strongly agree. This alone brings Heavy Armor vs Medium Armor/Light Armor balance back into a great spot. No harness magicka for HA mag builds and no shuffle for HA stam builds. NBs still having access to major evasion would probably cause an uproar... but IMO that's their recompense for not having major mending or crit surge, which all the other builds have at least one of.

4-8k bash, where are you getting that from? I don't mean that in an accusatory way, I just have not seen any bash hit that hard so I'm genuinely curious where that is coming from. That aside though I have no problem with 1h/shield builds and crushing shock builds having an advantage when it comes to interrupting heavy attacks. If you're fighting someone bash weaving or using crushing shock then you should recognize that and you better not have to rely on heavy attacks for resources. Being able to manage resources while stacking most/all damage is a problem IMO so if bashable heavy attacks is going to combat that then I am all for it.

Couldn't agree more with the armor abilities point.

roigseguib16_ESO · December 2016

Nice!

Izaki · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

@Dracane mmm, I personally feel like a non stacking nerf would be worse. What if some random dk casts igneous near you. Now you cant use hardened. Or healing.. It would be a tricky situation.

The situation won't be tricky. Its horse simulator to get back where ever you were before.

Cherryblossom · December 2016

I think you are only scratching the surface and nothing you suggest really would create any real balance.

I disagree with the armour skill, this should be open to all I see no real gain. You already suggest that all classes should be given major evasion, so why rework 3 classes when you can just leave as is!

I don't think they should bring back bash for heavy attacks, as the weave is light, skill, bash, this would be worse than stuns from stealth!

With shields they just need to make them critable.

Unchained is a nice bonus in the stun root gameplay we have now. Maybe they should put the skill in a less used tree, so you have to make a sacrifice to get the bonus.

I don't have an issue with stunning from stealth, ganking is part of the game, it's a shame you need to be a NB to do it well though!

the Balance issue is not down to some setups being OP in the right hands, unkillable templars, one shot nearly NB, Tanking DKs, Imortal quick retreating Sorcs. Whilst I don't have an issue with a few people having the skills to pull off the above, recently some set have given the above a low skill cap to acheive, this is the issue with balance currently.

Great gameplay should be hard to acheive, it should not be down to the gear you're wear or the weapon you are using, then getting lucky with RNG. This is what's now missing from the game, there was a time when you would meet one or two people in PVP that were truly deadly, but now any monkey can be, even I kill people now!

idk · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

To answer the question about what my point is, it's the first comment I made in this post.

Ishammael · December 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Kutsuu · December 2016

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Hmm I'm not totally sure about the bashing heavy attacks thing. This is part of what made my old 1h/shield builds so powerful. I'm already weaving light>attack>bash - you dare to start winding up a medium weave or a heavy attack and you're getting slammed by a 4-8k bash, no skill required. I just weave like I always weave. Not sure how to solve that concern, really.

As far as the item to only allow armor abilities to work with 5-piece of that type, I strongly agree. This alone brings Heavy Armor vs Medium Armor/Light Armor balance back into a great spot. No harness magicka for HA mag builds and no shuffle for HA stam builds. NBs still having access to major evasion would probably cause an uproar... but IMO that's their recompense for not having major mending or crit surge, which all the other builds have at least one of.

4-8k bash, where are you getting that from? I don't mean that in an accusatory way, I just have not seen any bash hit that hard so I'm genuinely curious where that is coming from. That aside though I have no problem with 1h/shield builds and crushing shock builds having an advantage when it comes to interrupting heavy attacks. If you're fighting someone bash weaving or using crushing shock then you should recognize that and you better not have to rely on heavy attacks for resources. Being able to manage resources while stacking most/all damage is a problem IMO so if bashable heavy attacks is going to combat that then I am all for it.

Couldn't agree more with the armor abilities point.

There is a damage bonus on bash when you successfully interrupt an ability. I haven't confirmed but it seems to be around the 100% mark. 1h/shield boosts the damage of bash by 100% via passive already. My non-interrupt bashes crit people in the 2k-4k range depending on their resists and CPs - 4k being the extreme side with someone who's spent all their points in bastion instead of physical resist and wearing light armor. I have seen an interrupt bash for 8k against a light armor wearer who was ressing someone, but it's usually more in the 4-6k range against a well geared player.

idk · December 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Yes.

And I'm aware he's a streamer. He has certain styles of play and his oppinion is based off that limited experience

He also seems to think he's special in that he's been condescending to some here and he also has troubles when people disagree with his thoughts.

So again, yes.

Dracane · December 2016

Xinthisis wrote: »

@Dracane mmm, I personally feel like a non stacking nerf would be worse. What if some random dk casts igneous near you. Now you cant use hardened. Or healing.. It would be a tricky situation.

Shield stacking is non sense. It's broken once you add healing ward, you are forced to use so many slots just to stay alive.
It would be healthier for everyone, if they would just disable that and maybe boost all single shields a bit to compensate.

If you would play mage, then you would instantly edit your post, because you know that non recastable shields will be instant death to all light armor players. I only play with 1 damage shield as a Sorc, believe me.
I remember when pet shields were still unrecastable a few months ago. Was impossible

rteezy · December 2016

So far you ahve been the ONLY one that didn't know something about the game (and it was a pretty "central" main mechanic of it), yet youa re calling somoene elses experience limited...lol

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Yes.

And I'm aware he's a streamer. He has certain styles of play and his oppinion is based off that limited experience

He also seems to think he's special in that he's been condescending to some here and he also has troubles when people disagree with his thoughts.

So again, yes.

idk · December 2016

rteezy wrote: »

So far you ahve been the ONLY one that didn't know something about the game (and it was a pretty "central" main mechanic of it), yet youa re calling somoene elses experience limited...lol

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Yes.

And I'm aware he's a streamer. He has certain styles of play and his oppinion is based off that limited experience

He also seems to think he's special in that he's been condescending to some here and he also has troubles when people disagree with his thoughts.

So again, yes.

@rteezy

Lol. Must be a fanboy of the streamer.

rteezy · December 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

So far you ahve been the ONLY one that didn't know something about the game (and it was a pretty "central" main mechanic of it), yet youa re calling somoene elses experience limited...lol

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Yes.

And I'm aware he's a streamer. He has certain styles of play and his oppinion is based off that limited experience

He also seems to think he's special in that he's been condescending to some here and he also has troubles when people disagree with his thoughts.

So again, yes.

@rteezy

Lol. Must be a fanboy of the streamer.

dont even know who he is lol..never see his stream or anyone with that name lol. BUT, even if i watched ops stream, my point would remain the same and be as valid...

Minalan · December 2016

Dracane wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

@Dracane mmm, I personally feel like a non stacking nerf would be worse. What if some random dk casts igneous near you. Now you cant use hardened. Or healing.. It would be a tricky situation.

Shield stacking is non sense. It's broken once you add healing ward, you are forced to use so many slots just to stay alive.
It would be healthier for everyone, if they would just disable that and maybe boost all single shields a bit to compensate.

If you would play mage, then you would instantly edit your post, because you know that non recastable shields will be instant death to all light armor players. I only play with 1 damage shield as a Sorc, believe me.
I remember when pet shields were still unrecastable a few months ago. Was impossible

Stacking two six second shields is the quickest way to run out of magicka and do no damage to the enemy. It's also the only way to survive some of these proc set openers. So no. Do not change.

Shields are fine, they only last six seconds. The crying about them is epic this patch because sorcs got a few high damage toys to play with. You didn't hear any of this under Hist, when sorcs were farmed all day with viper and veli sets.

idk · December 2016

rteezy wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

So far you ahve been the ONLY one that didn't know something about the game (and it was a pretty "central" main mechanic of it), yet youa re calling somoene elses experience limited...lol

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Yes.

And I'm aware he's a streamer. He has certain styles of play and his oppinion is based off that limited experience

He also seems to think he's special in that he's been condescending to some here and he also has troubles when people disagree with his thoughts.

So again, yes.

@rteezy

Lol. Must be a fanboy of the streamer.

dont even know who he is lol..never see his stream or anyone with that name lol. BUT, even if i watched ops stream, my point would remain the same and be as valid...

@rteezy

For which it is not.

Seriously. How could OP even consider his ideas balance when he wants to make DKs snare and also add major evasion to it. Talk about it becoming an OP skill.

Lol. Balance?

rteezy · December 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

So far you ahve been the ONLY one that didn't know something about the game (and it was a pretty "central" main mechanic of it), yet youa re calling somoene elses experience limited...lol

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Proc sets are getting reworked. This is confirmed, and therefore I didn't mention them. Stam is strong because they have access to so much utility. Being able to get great sustain+damage+dodge chance+tankiness. Not to mention the way cp helps Stam builds more then magicka builds. Easiest fix is to nerf unchained, and to make it to where if a stam build wants to have dodge chance+root snare removal all in one skill they have to run 5 medium armor.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO state your solutions, not just your criticism. People with complaints and no solutions pollute these forums. Be refreshing.

You act like a solution is simple yet it's not.

Additionally, I didn't start the his thread and topic so I don't have to derail the thread by adding changes I think would help. Oh, reduce damage from proc sets in Cyrodiil, maybe.

The one thing I don't have and you certainly don't have is meta data from the game which is essential for making actual decisions that change the game.

Take ok the nerf threads and most are worthless merely because the player has not taken the time to figure out how to PvP.

Xinthisis wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the only stats that get buffed by cp is cost reduction and regen. cp just needs a rework completely

This is why before I start a conversation with someone about balance, I ask what platform they play on.

Take all your cp out and check your resource pools. Put all your cp back in and check them again. Thanks. Now let the people who know what they're talking about continue the conversation.

No need to be condescending. Again, you asked for people to post their thoughts in this thread.

Thx for understanding

Not sure if anyone noticed, but every change he suggested except for maybe unchained is crafted to make stealth ganking players easier.

My targets have too much health and stamina. Red CP health bonus makes ganking too hard. Nerf so I can one shot everyone.

My victims have shields, nerf those too.

Heavy armor people hit shuffle when I gank them, put a stop to it.

Someone nerf unchained because every other nightblade skill gives my opponent three seconds of free stamina casts.

God help us if ZOS listens to it.

Lmfao, that reminds me. Remove the stun from stealth. I knew I was missing something. I also think that the extra damage is a bit too high. Since it stacks with everything else on NB passives.

Ganking is always going to be a thing because of the core damage increase mechanic from stealth of elder scrolls games. The changes I mentioned in the OP are there after talking to many different players. From top tier small group players like @FENGRUSH to Solo players like @Velukodi. Talking to people all across forums, steams, and teamspeak. The auto stun from stealth definitely needs to get removed, but then again that is why radiant mage light exists.

The shield Idea was actually mentioned to me by a magicka sorc player @Lord_Invel. I've always known that once heavy armor became meta they would need to adjust armor abilities to be bound to that armor type. @FENGRUSH agrees that armor abilities should only be usable while in 5 pieces of that armor type. It balances out the over the top heavy armor stam builds. Wanna run heavy armor, then you cant run rally because before the dodge chance saves you the snares will kill you. You'll need to get another way to deal with snares and roots. They exist, but you'll have to make a choice.

CP increases my max stats as well.. so I get more damage.. and the way damage stacks in this game, the more stats I have to play with the easier ganking will become... I really dont think you understand the way things work. As it stands right now there is a build in game that does 44k dps burst to ANYONE in game. I just dont have the sets yet. Oh, and its not using proc sets either.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I have no idea what your point is at this time. Do you have any solutions, or are you content with the current state of pvp and overall balance in general?

@Xinthisis

Any idea is better than your ideas. Your ideas are narrow minded and based on the our limited experience.

Additionally, there is a balance update coming out. My suggestion is wait for that.

PvP is only part of the game and changes need to take all into account.

Finally, my sugesstion is you some start a thread again to if you only want people to accept you oppinions. The idea of a thread is discussion of the OP, not offering counter suggestions.

Get over it buddy.

His "limited" experience?
LoL

Yes.

And I'm aware he's a streamer. He has certain styles of play and his oppinion is based off that limited experience

He also seems to think he's special in that he's been condescending to some here and he also has troubles when people disagree with his thoughts.

So again, yes.

@rteezy

Lol. Must be a fanboy of the streamer.

dont even know who he is lol..never see his stream or anyone with that name lol. BUT, even if i watched ops stream, my point would remain the same and be as valid...

@rteezy

For which it is not.

Seriously. How could OP even consider his ideas balance when he wants to make DKs snare and also add major evasion to it. Talk about it becoming an OP skill.

Lol. Balance?

that is NOT what he said.

he proposed to remove armor abilities unless you had 5/5 of that armor

WHICH makes sense since you can clearly see EVERY stam heavy armor using shuffle (and if u dont you are doing it wrong..)
THAt is yet another thign that makes them too strong adding extra dodge to teh already tanky AND bursty stam heavy builds.

MMOS are about making choices, and you can either choose to be tanky...or to have dodge...

HE ADDED as a sugestion that they could still give evasion trhough the Ash skill (which is so weak and awfull that no one serious uses it atm)..so , again, choices, you would drop a main dps or cc ability FOR ash, if u wanted major evasion.

NO ONE uses that ability because of the snare when you have talons and fossilize..

Again buddy, you seem to lack ALOT of knowledge about the game to even be participating here..Its nto about just sharing opinions, but rather sharing INFORMED opinions, any other kind of opinion is worthless...

Minalan · December 2016

I have to agree on the 5/5 armor change. Shuffle was meant for medium builds that can't take the kind of heat.

I'd say restrict it to 5/5 medium, and then buff it to remove snares longer.

Xinthisis · December 2016

Guys, I dont stream.

@Dracane Honestly, I also have been saying that their needs to be a change to shield stacking as well yet I feel that is something zos will not remove. There are so many different shields that can randomly get put on allies that it would essentially lock out their ability to use the shield they want to use. Unless it would just remove the current shield and put the one you want to cast on. Idk how zos would code that honestly.

@Cherryblossom I always thought that making shields crittable would be the answer as well, until a mag sorc main explained to me that if shields were crittable they would actually become more op then they are now. Because shields would be able to crit. As well as have all the impen resists and armor/spell res applied. Unless zos specifically coded it to not gain all the benefits. The devs would have to code it in very specifically. I think it would be too much work versus just reintroducing coding that existed in game at one point. Idk how they operate, but the reason I made this post with these specific suggestions is that it would be the simplest to implement, with the greatest impact on balance improvement. There are some very complex changes I'd like to see added as well, but realistically they wont. We need to work with zos.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO So, any solutions yet?

@rteezy Thanks for trying to explain to giles, he seems to have a veil pulled over his eyes.

@Minalan Yeah, I mention that change first because everyone that plays pvp and understands how min maxing works knows that being in the tankiest, best sustain, really good damage, AND having dodge chance with snare removal is just too much.

Xinthisis · December 2016

Solariken wrote: »

Please add that Magelight should break stealth/invisibility upon cast. You know this is necessary.

I didn't mention individual abilities and what not because this post would end up being in a 10 page essay format.lol
I agree that mage light should break stealth.

Xinthisis · December 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

Xinthisis wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Hmm I'm not totally sure about the bashing heavy attacks thing. This is part of what made my old 1h/shield builds so powerful. I'm already weaving light>attack>bash - you dare to start winding up a medium weave or a heavy attack and you're getting slammed by a 4-8k bash, no skill required. I just weave like I always weave. Not sure how to solve that concern, really.

As far as the item to only allow armor abilities to work with 5-piece of that type, I strongly agree. This alone brings Heavy Armor vs Medium Armor/Light Armor balance back into a great spot. No harness magicka for HA mag builds and no shuffle for HA stam builds. NBs still having access to major evasion would probably cause an uproar... but IMO that's their recompense for not having major mending or crit surge, which all the other builds have at least one of.

Sword and shield has always been far too powerful, that is just an issue with the way it is designed. However, unbashable heavy attacks is an issue in it of itself. Bring back bashable heavy attacks, and nerf bash damage. That would be the solution.

This kind of dodges the point that weaving bashes removes any skill component to bashing heavy attacks, and just punishes anyone who chooses to try heavy attacking. I suppose you'd have to save heavy attacks for only when the opponent is CC'd or not in melee range - assuming they don't run Venom Arrow or Crushing Shock, which you can bet will become mainstays in such an environment. Another case to this is that someone could easily run more sustain and weave bashes with DW or 2h - it simply gives so much benefit if you can bash heavy attacks that just weaving them is ideal.

IMO heavy attacks already have the detractor that they take time to wind up and have very obvious animations. I feel like a solution somewhere in the middle would be the best, like 4-5 seconds of off balance (minus the stun like in PVE) if someone blocks your heavy attack. That would make a set like Armor of Truth a little more viable in PVP, and adds a skill component to countering heavy attacks.

This is also an interesting fix, no cc but at least you get to punish a person heavy attacking you. I like it.