IMO, Viper and Infernal Guardian belong in the updated OP as things that are super broken.

How does Zenimax expect to make balance changes when half of the things in Cyrodiil are broken (as in, not functioning correctly).

Stikato wrote: »

So...ZOS will follow their usual method of making a ton of large, untested changes all at once, and then refuse to make incremental adjustments?

It will be just as unbalanced as before, except with some new cheese added in.

The more they change the game the worse it gets.

Agreed, I'm not optimistic that there will ever be balance with this philosophy in play.

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

From the perspective of a magic NB:

1. Impale is terrible. It's execute threshold is lower than the 2H execute and Jesus Beam, it's both dodgeable and reflectable, and it doesn't have a proc like Mage's Fury so it can't be used to set up burst.
2. Melee magic NB has been dead since the nerf to Proximity Detonation. Concealed Weapon costs too much and it's secondary effect (increased movement speed in stealth) is terrible compared to Surprise Attack's (Major Fracture.) Merciless Resolve and it's proc Assassin's Will work okay for burst as a ranged magic NB, but for melee NB it's too difficult to proc, and often won't hit for enough.
3. Reveal abilities like Piercing Mark, Revealing Flare, and Magelight made sense when few classes had AOE, but now stamina sorcs have a huge AOE that moves with them (Hurricane), Templars have a huge AOE they're encouraged to stand in (Ritual of Retribution), Caltrops is still commonplace, etc. Either remove these reveal abilities or make AOE not pull you out of cloak.

to add to this soul harvest could use a buff as well. ult gen vs awesome knockdown..... why do stamblades get all the good ***?

pcar944 wrote: »

incognito222 wrote: »

Not sure if someone said this already. Going to say it again to make sure.

Being in mist form does not render you immune to snares.

so much of this

This is not true. Being in mist form does make you immune to snares. HOWEVER every time someone gap-closes on you, the automatic lock-on mechanic (which is silly) stops you fully for about a second, making getting away nay impossible

Ishammael wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

In the spirit of one (last) gasp at PvP balance -- which we know is incoming 1st Quarter or so -- lets brainstorm for @Wrobel a good list of things to be worked on. Post the problem and a suggestion for how to fix it. These can be specific balance changes (like Proc Sets) or overall gameplay changes

I'll try to keep the top of the thread updated with good suggestions

I'll start with just a few

1. Proc Sets -- probably need a global cooldown to enforce players to use only one. Remove the RNG element.

Proc sets are a problem but this wouldn't fix them. It's that the damage is too high and instant. If those problems were handled, it wouldn't matter if someone stacked widowmaker, viper, veli or whatever.

Overall I agree with the problems you identified.

I mean.. I sorta agree. The problem is that you can stack poison, ability, multi proc, passive, and heavy attack into one shot.

If I had my way, proc sets would be completely erased, but I was trying to find a middle ground.

1) And you'd be stuck with the most boring combat ever. Proc sets add RNG to a fight and its a good thing, but also a bad thing.
Good thing is that fights aren't monotonous. Bad thing is that you could kill someone just because of a lucky proc. But think of it: A lucky crit that is a killing blow is still RNG. At that point remove crit chance too. RNG is what makes fights actually interesting, it kinda adds "spice" to the combat. I'm not talking about stacking 3 proc sets that one shot people with a light attack.

2) Soft caps would be a huge nerf to pretty much every class out there, especially magicka sorcerers who stack magicka and ZOS would never do that anyway.

4) I'm pretty sure that Major Heroism is the standard ultimate regeneration from light and heavy attacks. I could be wrong though, don't take this as fact. Either way, its too much for a class buff. Keep in mind that stamina DKs would also probably be affected by it.

5) Stam sorcs are strong for sure. But nerfing a skill that everyone laughed about (remember the whole: "we want pulling off Dark Deal in a fight to feel awesome"?) is just not going to happen. Especially that its not like it doesn't have any counters. I do think that they should make it a HoT with a resource return at the end, so it would prevent spamming the ability for stamina. Although there are some pretty strong poisons that just prevent from Dark Dealing/Streaking/applying Crit Surge more than once.
Burning Light nerf?... What?

6) Yeah Evasion should be reworked to a short duration buff that you have to reapply after the dodge went off or something else.

7) Meteor is block-able. Its the only counter. Is that not good enough? Its a 200 cost ultimate, it shouldn't have such easy counters. Dawnbreaker is block-able you just never see it coming. Eye of the Storm definitely need to be block-able or have a smaller radius, I agree on that.

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

pcar944 wrote: »

incognito222 wrote: »

Not sure if someone said this already. Going to say it again to make sure.

Being in mist form does not render you immune to snares.

so much of this

This is not true. Being in mist form does make you immune to snares. HOWEVER every time someone gap-closes on you, the automatic lock-on mechanic (which is silly) stops you fully for about a second, making getting away nay impossible

Was two seconds in mist form, enemy tremorscale procced and I was snared for the remaining duration of mist form. Enemy did not apply gap closer.

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Stratforge wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

In the spirit of one (last) gasp at PvP balance -- which we know is incoming 1st Quarter or so -- lets brainstorm for @Wrobel a good list of things to be worked on. Post the problem and a suggestion for how to fix it. These can be specific balance changes (like Proc Sets) or overall gameplay changes

I'll try to keep the top of the thread updated with good suggestions

I'll start with just a few

1. Proc Sets -- probably need a global cooldown to enforce players to use only one. Remove the RNG element.

Proc sets are a problem but this wouldn't fix them. It's that the damage is too high and instant. If those problems were handled, it wouldn't matter if someone stacked widowmaker, viper, veli or whatever.

Overall I agree with the problems you identified.

I mean.. I sorta agree. The problem is that you can stack poison, ability, multi proc, passive, and heavy attack into one shot.

If I had my way, proc sets would be completely erased, but I was trying to find a middle ground.

1) And you'd be stuck with the most boring combat ever. Proc sets add RNG to a fight and its a good thing, but also a bad thing.
Good thing is that fights aren't monotonous. Bad thing is that you could kill someone just because of a lucky proc. But think of it: A lucky crit that is a killing blow is still RNG. At that point remove crit chance too. RNG is what makes fights actually interesting, it kinda adds "spice" to the combat. I'm not talking about stacking 3 proc sets that one shot people with a light attack.

2) Soft caps would be a huge nerf to pretty much every class out there, especially magicka sorcerers who stack magicka and ZOS would never do that anyway.

4) I'm pretty sure that Major Heroism is the standard ultimate regeneration from light and heavy attacks. I could be wrong though, don't take this as fact. Either way, its too much for a class buff. Keep in mind that stamina DKs would also probably be affected by it.

5) Stam sorcs are strong for sure. But nerfing a skill that everyone laughed about (remember the whole: "we want pulling off Dark Deal in a fight to feel awesome"?) is just not going to happen. Especially that its not like it doesn't have any counters. I do think that they should make it a HoT with a resource return at the end, so it would prevent spamming the ability for stamina. Although there are some pretty strong poisons that just prevent from Dark Dealing/Streaking/applying Crit Surge more than once.
Burning Light nerf?... What?

6) Yeah Evasion should be reworked to a short duration buff that you have to reapply after the dodge went off or something else.

7) Meteor is block-able. Its the only counter. Is that not good enough? Its a 200 cost ultimate, it shouldn't have such easy counters. Dawnbreaker is block-able you just never see it coming. Eye of the Storm definitely need to be block-able or have a smaller radius, I agree on that.

1. We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. RNG has no place in the combat system.
2. Soft caps are need for an enormous range of reasons. I have listed a few: infinite sustain, uncapped dmg, ridiculous Battle Spirit, etc.
3. Major Heroism is identical in magnitude to the standard ultimate generation, but is not in fact the same buff. Of course everything must be considered in context, but the idea here is to allow the DK to flex the Battle Roar muscle again because they don't have an execute or mobility or heals like the other classes.
4. Dunno what your point is here. Yeah, i don't like RNG so Burning Light should just change to a static dmg buff like the DK passives in the Ardent Flame tree.
5. Evasion needs to change. Lots of ideas around.
6. Dawnbreaker goes through block.

Derra wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

I disagree. I think that one way DPS is so high is that sustain is so infinite. I would prefer to reduce sustain and that would force DPS to lower.

Which would result in fights not ending because sustain would still be infinite (which it always has been since 1.2 introduced 5p sets and 1.3 the new regen caps).

Also do people actually remember how fast people died in the beginning of this game? Three whips and most ppl were toast.

Yeah, but at the beginning of the game people weren't max level.

RE: infinite sustain. Yes it has existed since 1.3. But players were forced to give up damage to get it. That doesn't happen now.

6. Dawnbreaker goes through block.

Wat. @Ishammael , could you pls elaborate?

The_Outsider wrote: »

6. Dawnbreaker goes through block.

Wat. @Ishammael , could you pls elaborate?

Yeah sorry my bad. That was long ago. It doesn't now.

Greenwood1900 wrote: »

Major Evasion in player who specs tank.

I honestly don't understand how after decades of RPG games they can commit such design mistake.

Dodging attacks is a rogue thing. Could work for a berserker if you want. But someone in heavy armor should not be allowed to have a high chance of dodging attacks. They already have armor and block, they can't have passive dodge too.

As you see, the game is broken in many levels, and is not fun anymore.

Change shuffle so that your dodge chance is increased by each piece of medium armor you wear, maxing out at 20%. I agree it does not make sense that you get the most important benefit of a skill in the medium armor skill line without wearing any medium armor.

In the event the PvP balance update doesn't actually balance anything, I will be prepared with this:

Let's hope that this doesn't have to get posted in the future....lol

Good luck. I think we've done this at least 4 or 5 times for Wrobel to no effect.

Maybe this time will be different, but I'm not really hopeful. I'll continue to play until something better comes along.