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An idea to reduce zergs, thus reducing lag in PvP without technical measurements

hmsdragonfly
hmsdragonfly
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Like the title, I am thinking about this, i hope ZOS can get something useful out of my idea.

Let's get straight to the point. We know that with the design of cyrodiil, there's only 1 thing to do: capturing/defending keeps. It encourages people to form a large group (or many large groups lol) and just zerg keeps, the more people you have the easier and quicker to take keeps. The only way to deal with that is forming a larger ball of zergs and zerg back, there's no other way to counter-play, it's just a game of which side has a larger ball of zergs, and the result is, you know, laggggggggggg.

My proposal is, we can use a similar mechanic to the game mode Conquest in Battlefield series: making small towns, villages and other destinations (where you can do quests that no one does) capture-able, and capturing/defending them also generates APs and points. Well I am not talking about 3 towns, and I am talking about 50 towns or more. Now let's call those small towns "small flags" and the keeps "big flags". As we can see in Battlefield, people will eventually be attracted to small flags, and when people see a flag is flipping, other people will come to take it back. Make sure to promote small/medium group play, by making them yielding less APs if too many people are on site, and more APs if you are in a 4-8-man group. It solves three things: firstly, it promotes small and medium group PvP, and as we know it offers an awesome and fun PvPing experience. Secondly, if there's a zergball coming to your keep, you can counter-play them, by splitting your forces to capture all the small flags, so the zergball has a choice to either continue zerging and lose all the small flags, thus losing the campaign and getting less APs, or split the forces to deal with the small flags and the problem of zerging is dealt with. So it's no longer a game of "who has a bigger zergball", tactics will probably be viable enough and hopefully we will (hopefully) probably see coordinated guilds war with a tactician calling strats. Just make sure capturing/defending small flags gains enough APs, and people will do it. Lastly, there will be PvP in every corner of Cyrodiil, it utilizes the beautifully crafted map that has been created, it's such a waste when everyone is just centering around a couple of keeps.

A few other things to note:
1) The enemy NPCs (bandits, skeletons...) can be used to guard small flags, or remove the unnecessary ones and diverge the resources to create NPC soldiers, whichever way you feel more immersive.
2) Make big flags large group (16-man group, 16v16), or maximum 2 large groups (32 men, 32v32) battlegrounds, by capping the total amount of AP you can gain there for a 16-man group (or 32), meaning, if there are more than 16 (or 32) people each side, AP is shared so you will get less APs. I prefer 32 for keeps, and 16 for nikel/sej.
3) Quest NPCs can be moved to inside houses, you know, it's warzone, people stay ... inside. That way players can still do quests if they want to.

Hope it helps.

If you guys like my idea or think certain things won't work, well, let's discuss about it :)
Edited by hmsdragonfly on December 11, 2016 1:22PM
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  • zuto40
    zuto40
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    The big zergs ive noticed dont care about AP, they care about winning the campaign, over a year ago i was a zerger, we would avoid fights against other players to take a keep and get more points in the campaign
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  • hmsdragonfly
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    zuto40 wrote: »
    The big zergs ive noticed dont care about AP, they care about winning the campaign, over a year ago i was a zerger, we would avoid fights against other players to take a keep and get more points in the campaign

    - To deal with organized zerg that wants to win the campaign:
    If there's a zergball coming to your keep, you can counter-play them, by splitting your forces to capture all the small flags, so the zergball has a choice to either continue zerging and lose all the small flags, thus losing the campaign and getting less APs, or split the forces to deal with the small flags and the problem of zerging is dealt with.

    - To deal with unorganized zerg:
    Usually an unorganized zerg happens because all the flights center around a couple of keeps (mainly the keeps surrounding IC). Why's that? There's nothing else to do in Cyrodiil, so if you want some action, you have to join the zergball near those keeps. With the small flags everywhere, you are naturally attracted to those flags and you will go there (APs will help encouraging you to go there as well), and when a flag is flipping, naturally enemies will come to take it back. Think of a huge Battlefield Conquest map with 50 flags. Keeps aren't the only source of action anymore, so players aren't forced to go there to seek action.
    Edited by hmsdragonfly on December 10, 2016 9:55PM
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  • BigBragg
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    Limit AP gains to the top 20 participants per faction at any battle or event that transpires.
  • hmsdragonfly
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    Limit AP gains to the top 20 participants per faction at any battle or event that transpires.

    So you mean only 20 players who get the most APs get the tick? As I do not know how they calculate AP gain, but i think this has a potential to be unfair, because a player who in reality contributes more for the fight has potential to get nothing while a player who in reality contributes less still gets the AP. It doesn't matter much when everyone gets AP, a couple of hundreds APs less don't matter but here 1 AP can mean you get nothing, it's unfair if you in reality contribute more for the fight but get 0 AP due to how APs are calculated.

    It's "fairer" if everyone gets less APs equally, in my opinion.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
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    We've moved this thread to the Alliance War & Imperial City section of the forums.
    Staff Post
  • thankyourat
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    The only way to reduce zergs Is to reduce their effectiveness. As long as it's such a huge advantage to outnumber your opponent zergs will always be a thing. Zergs are also a safety blanket to hide in if you aren't so skilled.
  • hmsdragonfly
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    We've moved this thread to the Alliance War & Imperial City section of the forums.

    Well at least you guys have read it :P
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  • Draxys
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    Isn't this what they tried with the 3 towns? Anyway, nothing will change until they fix the problems. The only other chance we might have of spreading people out is making winning the campaign much more desirable, and then adding incentives away from major keeps that directly help to win the campaign. I don't really have any ideas, I have absolutely zero hope for the game ever being improved.
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  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    Draxys wrote: »
    Isn't this what they tried with the 3 towns? Anyway, nothing will change until they fix the problems. The only other chance we might have of spreading people out is making winning the campaign much more desirable, and then adding incentives away from major keeps that directly help to win the campaign. I don't really have any ideas, I have absolutely zero hope for the game ever being improved.

    No, 3 towns don't change a thing. What I am suggesting, is 50 towns and "destinations" (where there are quests that no one does), not 3 , and make sure that taking those places yield enough APs and points to the point that you can counter-play zerg by splitting your forces to take all the towns and let the zerg take the keep. They are exactly the "incentives away from major keeps" that promote small group PvP and directly help to win the campaign.
    Think of a 200v200 Battlefield's Conquest game with 50 flags.
    Edited by hmsdragonfly on December 11, 2016 5:59AM
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  • Xsorus
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    Well zergballs were controlled somewhat with pd and vd a few patches ago; but with pd nerf and destro ult being added the stacking is back like before some what (though it's less of a stack and more of a moveable train, though they do stack usually before hand but they aren't as vulnerable as they were back then now)
  • AlexTech0x
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    We've moved this thread to the Alliance War & Imperial City section of the forums.

    Well at least you guys have read it :P

    doesnt mean they care
  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Well zergballs were controlled somewhat with pd and vd a few patches ago; but with pd nerf and destro ult being added the stacking is back like before some what (though it's less of a stack and more of a moveable train, though they do stack usually before hand but they aren't as vulnerable as they were back then now)

    Fengrush has said, the ultimate issue of PvP is zerging. It has never been fixed, and will never get fixed unless they utilize the rest of the map, making people have an incentive to go somewhere that are not a couple of keeps in the center. My solution can hopefully fix that.
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  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    AlexTech0x wrote: »
    doesnt mean they care

    It's nice if they give us something like "We have read this thread and we are discussing about it".

    Well, maybe if we discuss about this constructively enough, probably they will.

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  • NACtron
    NACtron
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    Many players came to ESO PVP to join in the advertised large scale combat. There are obviously a lot of people that like to zerg and I don't think zerging is much of a problem. The issue is that smaller groups have nowhere else to go besides where the zergs are. All of the fighting is around the emp ring. Adding battlefield like objectives to the map is a great idea. However I think it should be not to punish large group play but to give room to breathe for smaller groups. All group sizes from big to small should be accommodated in Cyrodiil.
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  • Drummerx04
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    These sorts of ideas get brought up quite often. In this threadfor instance. I like the idea of small objectives all over the map. But reworking the scoring objectives and point values would also assist. Making the back 3 keeps worth more points than the emp keeps for instance.

    Unfortunately, ZOS just doesn't engage the community with ideas. I mean we aggressively disagree with just about everything they say and do, so I don't necessarily blame them, but it would be so nice to know that they have considered any of the ideas the communities present.
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  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    NACtron wrote: »
    Many players came to ESO PVP to join in the advertised large scale combat. There are obviously a lot of people that like to zerg and I don't think zerging is much of a problem. The issue is that smaller groups have nowhere else to go besides where the zergs are. All of the fighting is around the emp ring. Adding battlefield like objectives to the map is a great idea. However I think it should be not to punish large group play but to give room to breathe for smaller groups. All group sizes from big to small should be accommodated in Cyrodiil.

    How can people enjoy the game when it is 10FPS xD We do not forget large groups, my idea was that small flags are battlegrounds for small and medium groups, while big flags are 32v32 battlegrounds. People will always find playable large battles, unlike 10FPS battles as we see in trueflame these days.
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  • hmsdragonfly
    hmsdragonfly
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    Drummerx04 wrote: »
    These sorts of ideas get brought up quite often. In this threadfor instance. I like the idea of small objectives all over the map. But reworking the scoring objectives and point values would also assist. Making the back 3 keeps worth more points than the emp keeps for instance.

    Unfortunately, ZOS just doesn't engage the community with ideas. I mean we aggressively disagree with just about everything they say and do, so I don't necessarily blame them, but it would be so nice to know that they have considered any of the ideas the communities present.

    I think if we keep pressing on ZOS on this matter they will have to do something about it :pensive:

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