More health versus more Stamina.. Civil debate, please!

johu31 · December 2016

Health is just one aspect of survivability. I still have work to do at it, but running low health has made me a much better player at surviving, by blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting, and just anticipating the big one shot mechanic.

Junipus · December 2016

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

My healer runs 16.2k health right now.

She is occasionally one-shot in dungeons, but not often, and it's generally on the final boss of the former normal dungeons due to the random untauntable boss attacks (and the damage ranges from 23k-150k depending on the dungeon).

I have figured out how to avoid some of them now (such as the Spindleclutch I Daedric spider, don't stand in front of her, and roll dodge if she turns towards you) but I am still sorting out others (Banished Cells I and Wayrest Sewers I, if anyone knows the tells for those please message me!) so still room for improvement.

As you get more comfortable with the mechanics and staying out of bad places you will also be able to drop your health and increase your damage.

I assume you run without a tank?

Spindle you use shields - harness or dampen is fine.
BC you use shields.
Wayrest is the same thing, or hold block and have your HoTs down when she reappears.

@Junipus I am specifically talking about the untauntable attack where the boss randomly fires a massive attack at one person before returning back to the tank.

Spindleclutch my group figured out the pattern, but Banished Cells and Wayrest don't seem to have that pattern. In Banished at first we thought it was based on distance from the boss, but I was hit for 23k whether I was directly on top of the boss or on the far side of the room. Tank hasn't spotted a tell yet. Wayrest, she usually does it right after her other windup attack, so we avoid those by holding block, but sometimes it's also random in her rotation and we haven't spotted the tell yet.

If shields are the only answer, how does stamina do it? Despite what the forums suggest, Shuffle is not a 100% chance to avoid it.

Shields are the only answer. If you're stamina then you have blade cloak or whatever it's actual name is which provides some mitigation and bone shield which also provides some mitigation. Even stacking bone shield and annulment can help but I get the impression you're all experienced so noticing when bosses turn to you and holding block also tends to result in survival.

Some of them you can survive with higher health than 16.2, but if you're running that low I'd always recommend shields.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

johu31 wrote: »

Health is just one aspect of survivability. I still have work to do at it, but running low health has made me a much better player at surviving, by blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting, and just anticipating the big one shot mechanic.

Ahhh, see, now this is a more viable support on how more stam can be more useful than more health. I appreciate all the feedback from everyone, but most are all focused on dps and how my current build is laughable or not suitable for trials, yet, I've done plenty of trials/vet level events and still doing those. Your reply/post here is in line on my debate . Yes, having a lot more stam can enable you to block or roll/dodge more; however my side of this debate is, yes, you will roll/dodge, sprint away from danger, but a mistake can happen and will, and when it does, you get killed by a hit from a boss that was 23-29k damage. Since your health is 20k or less and without having some kind of protective barrier on, it is a one-shot kill. So, having health, like mine, I am able to withstand when such mistake happens when I get hit by a boss hit with that much damage. Of course, you won't see many strike from a boss with that much damage in normal level events, but in vet levels, that much damage from a boss hit are there.. and I'm not talking about avoidable aoe that has 50k or upward damages.

Take the final boss in vet Wayrest, for example. She does that crazy strike that does in the higher 20k ranges. If you're focused, you can see and anticipate when she is able to strike that. You can either roll out of the way at the right moment or block; however, if you can't, that is a one hit kill. That happens almost all the time when I am in that dungeon with a group. It doesn't matter what level they are; they could be maxed out 561, but they will be get one-hit killed when they make that mistake of not seeing it coming. When I make that same mistake and I get that hit from her, yes, it kills my health bar almost down to almost the last drop and I am in the red, but that last few meter on my health still keeps me alive to be able to throw up my igneous shield, followed by vigor, then bounce around until she is distracted and I can revive the fallen.

I do agree with you on this post of your that you need stam to be able to roll/dodge and getting away fast from danger. That is how I solo that Snow and Steam world boss in Wrothgar all the time. That boss has a brutal spin strike. I can't stand toe-to-toe with that guy, even if I'm spamming Igneous and vigor. He hits so hard, it just rips through my igneous like butter. So, my strategy is to roll out (or block) just before he does his spin strike; just like boxing (dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee), I go in for the attack with my flurry or arrow barrage, rearming trap, heavy attack/wrecking blow combo (however, this is more like sting like a wasp), then, I rush back away and repeat when able. When I do get hit by his strike, it doesn't one-hot kill me, but two of those will. So, yes, I would have to speed away and then igneous and vigor. Yes, it does use up a lot of stam, but with my stam meter at 29k, it is suitable to avoid depleting it all the way. I also speed away so my stam meter can regen. Using ultimate helps regen stam very well as well as using my heavy attack/wrecking blow combo which does regen stam and also dish out double damages.

So, it is the balance of having higher health and getting my stam meter as high as I can (which right right now is at 29k), it is suitable for survivability and able to dish out good damage; because if you're dead, and even though your stam or majicka level may be in the mid-30s or 40k, you can't use it or fight, until you're being revive. If all four of you are 20k health and below and in a vet dungeon or something, and three are down, surely the fourth will be down shortly. However, many times I able to avoid being killed and able to regen and revive the others to push on and finish the event. Same with trials and vet trials, folks just go down left and right. I've been some where all were down, except myself and the Tank (good tank, that is) is still gong strong and I was able to survive those strikes, throw up my igneous/vigor and revive people. If my health was similar to the others with 20k or so, I'm sure I would had also been wiped, then followed by the Tank. Again, nothing wrong with dying and starting again, but I just like the idea of survivability.

I think folks are so focus on having higher stamina that they perceive someone with lower stam than what they would like, is ineffective. That seems prejudice and underestimating someone.

raj72616a · December 2016

you are not ineffective. you are inefficient.
about 50% less efficient to real dps players.

and that is not prejudice. that is fact.

and you are far more efficient than wannabe dps players with 13k health at low cp and die all the time. it's just that if your skills improve, you will have to move towards less health and more stam.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

raj72616a wrote: »

you are not ineffective. you are inefficient.
about 50% less efficient to real dps players.

and that is not prejudice. that is fact.

and you are far more efficient than wannabe dps players with 13k health at low cp and die all the time. it's just that if your skills improve, you will have to move towards less health and more stam.

What's your source(s) on why you say I am inefficient? You should back it up with something; some example or something. I can always say somebody is no good or that build is lacking, but I have to back it up on why I think such or even add on how someone can improve to be better or how they can get a better build. Although, I do appreciate your feedback, your statement doesn't hold weight. I gave plenty of examples on how I feel my build can be effective and efficient. Also, I don't understand what you are getting at on "if your skills improve.." I know everyone can improve and learn new things everyday no matter what levels they are or how long they have been on ESO. However, your statements just making it sounds I'm still a noob and don't know what the heck I am doing in this game. No bashing against you at all. Don't think that way, please.. just my perspective.

Duukar · December 2016

Im sorry OP. These numbers have been run and run again.

You are under estimating the obsessive nature of the min maxers.

You set up STINKS for real DPS.

You have no Idea how truly little your DPS is in the grand scheme of things.

I mostly pvp but of course you gotta do pve content to do that. I have put out at most 29k dps.. Thats damage per second. Thats one cast of JUST wrecking blow.

I have also done 2h in pve with a very strong stam set up. I capped out at 20k dps.

I know people who run stam DK and they are posting over 40k DPS..

with your high health and low stam and mediocre weapon dmg and gimped ass 2h abilities (in pve) there is no way you are putting out more than 20k DPS.

While being respectable that number is no longer good and what you are left with is that your build is holding back your potential.

Get with the meta or just try to solo content.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

All and all, I not downplaying or underestimating DW or other class or builds. I think it is good to have lots of dps DW and sorc in a trial group, but also to have a 2H or two; particularly one with higher health, other than a Tank.

You are describing an off tank, not a damage dealer. Almost every trial group has one these days. If that is your goal, grab a sword and board on at least one bar. You are mixing roles which means you are doing neither very well.

Edit: I think you secretly want to be a tank. Come out of the closet buddy. It's a safe space.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

Duukar wrote: »

Im sorry OP. These numbers have been run and run again.

You are under estimating the obsessive nature of the min maxers.

You set up STINKS for real DPS.

You have no Idea how truly little your DPS is in the grand scheme of things.

I mostly pvp but of course you gotta do pve content to do that. I have put out at most 29k dps.. Thats damage per second. Thats one cast of JUST wrecking blow.

I have also done 2h in pve with a very strong stam set up. I capped out at 20k dps.

I know people who run stam DK and they are posting over 40k DPS..

with your high health and low stam and mediocre weapon dmg and gimped ass 2h abilities (in pve) there is no way you are putting out more than 20k DPS.

While being respectable that number is no longer good and what you are left with is that your build is holding back your potential.

Get with the meta or just try to solo content.

Meta, feta.. whatever. I'm not a scientific guy. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this post is generating more replies. So yes, at times, it can be hard to read through all the information. Most of the time, people just read a bit of the initial post and doesn't bother to read through the follow-on posts and replies or just breeze through without getting or understanding all the info being put out. I have posted the numbers and stated more than a few times that I have soloed contents, such world bosses, dungeons and even vet dungeons. Aside from some of the vet dungeons, I can pretty much solo world boss pits in any areas and certain vet dungeons (except that damn mad ogre in Wrothgar or the final boss in vet Direfrost, because they keep regenerating; too much for one person), most normal dungeons (ICP, WGT, RoM and CoS are bit rougher) and even soloed DSA without dying. Aside from the trials, most contents in Craglorn, such as world bosses, area portals, those area side bosses with 4 million health, I have soloed with dying. It may not be the fastest time. I don't care. I'm not looking for speed.

Yes in PvE. I'm not a PvP guy. I've done enough so to get the vigor. No more needed for me. You're definitely mistaken, my friend, if you think a single hit from wrecking blow can't generate more than 20k damages. I don't have the screenshot or anything, but I have gotten 28-30k from one single blow (with crit, of course.) Standalone strike without crit, I've gotten up to 25-26k. Had tested out striking from behind and from sneak (at a bear or Echatere), I've gotten from 57-61k from one single blow. Even just a single light swing, it generates from 5-8k. Heavy can generate 15-18k. Try it and see it for yourself, if you have the gall. If you're a 2h also, then maybe you're not ding something right, if you're not getting more than 20k from a single wrecking blow strike. Heck, I can do that in my sleep.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

Again, I'm not saying it's the best, but I'm not convinced on some comments that my build is not as good or ineffective or inefficient. Sure, I can drop 5k or 10k off my health meter and replace with more stam. I'm sure I will gain a bit more weapon damage or dps, but I feel I would be less effective if I keep getting one-shot kill from a 25-29k damage hit. I've my numbers, I have soloed plenty of events, I've done plenty of group contents. I've stood standing still plenty of time while other have been killed in a trial or dungeon.

You all have to give some credits, (if not, cool, no losing any sleep here) instead of what I perceive from many that I suck and I will not be in your group. Fine, if that's the case. I've been in plenty of groups and group events, and we fair well. To each it's own, brother. You all hardcore players go ahead and have your ultimate super team/group and finish all your trials in 8 seconds. For me, I just want to play and enjoy the game and help those that needs it or share my experience with new or lower level players. I'm not on to shame or bash anyone on their levels, build or how they perform in ESO.

raj72616a · December 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

you are not ineffective. you are inefficient.
about 50% less efficient to real dps players.

and that is not prejudice. that is fact.

and you are far more efficient than wannabe dps players with 13k health at low cp and die all the time. it's just that if your skills improve, you will have to move towards less health and more stam.

What's your source(s) on why you say I am inefficient? You should back it up with something; some example or something. I can always say somebody is no good or that build is lacking, but I have to back it up on why I think such or even add on how someone can improve to be better or how they can get a better build. Although, I do appreciate your feedback, your statement doesn't hold weight. I gave plenty of examples on how I feel my build can be effective and efficient. Also, I don't understand what you are getting at on "if your skills improve.." I know everyone can improve and learn new things everyday no matter what levels they are or how long they have been on ESO. However, your statements just making it sounds I'm still a noob and don't know what the heck I am doing in this game. No bashing against you at all. Don't think that way, please.. just my perspective.

i listed it out for you in an earlier post:

using 2H you miss out :
1. ~40 weapon damage iirc
2. one item slot for set bonus, which could mean 1~3k dps less depending what items you can lay yout hand on
3. great DoT skills on DW line
4. great AoE steel tornado on DW line
5. great DoT skills on Bow line

having 30k health, you miss out 15k stats which could be put into stam, and that translates into 1434 weapon damage.

"i have 30k health, i use 2H, but i am a great dps! i am not scientific and wont discuss the numbers with you , i am not going to talk about equipments and skills setup! but i am great!"

how did i fall to this troll bait? lol

laksikus · December 2016

Btw nobody really believes you really finished vmol^^
Not on PC if you dont even know dps meters
And Not on console if you dont know any dps test which is requirement for most progressive guilds

Anti_Virus · December 2016

Mr. Wrobel had stated that in the homestead patch ( U13) he and his team will be making Health a more valuable resource stat.

laksikus · December 2016

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Mr. Wrobel had stated that in the homestead patch ( U13) he and his team will be making Health a more valuable resource stat.

Blood magic incomong

IronCrystal · December 2016

laksikus wrote: »

Btw nobody really believes you really finished vmol^^
Not on PC if you dont even know dps meters
And Not on console if you dont know any dps test which is requirement for most progressive guilds

He very may well have completed vMoL if he was carried. Doesn't mean he contributed enough dps though. Just means he ran with some pretty amazing guys.

Spaceclown · December 2016

Neither magica ftw

hedna123b14_ESO · December 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

As a 2H Nord DK, I've played around with different builds and currently settled with a 5-piece DKS base, Agility set and Skoria monster set. My health is 30k and Stam at around 29k, and I am a dps for dungeons and trial. So, I read more stamina adds up to more wpn dam, but I favor the higher health for survivability. So, I am asked often if I am a tank or at times, why do I have "high health?" True, usually only Tanks have more health than I, but Tanks normally have lower wpn dam/dps. Also, majority of the toons running around, you can clearly see their health are in the medium of 15-16k. I have also seen plenty of 561 CPs running around with health bar around 12-13k and not much others hitting the 20k mark with food buff in dungeons and trials.

To me, 12-20k health is low. I found the medium with my current health/stam distribution and still have almost 3700 overall non-proc wpn dam. This gives me survivability from not getting one-shot from vet dungeons or trials. My dps is fine.. I'm sure not the best, but I fair well with 16k-29k from a single strike to 33-40k with combo/animation cancelling, which is very sustainable in dungeons and trials. I'm sure I can increase my stam and get higher wpn dam, but I would have to sacrifice 10k of my health to increase my stam. I have ran plenty of vet dungeons and trials, even vet trials, and aside from dungeons like vet Fungal or vet CoS where a boss traps you and if your teammates doesn't interrupt in time, anyone can get 1-hit killed; other than that, I don't die much.

I find myself more times reviving my fallen comrades in vet dungeons and trials. 561 CP or not, my view is they are being killed easier because their health are below 20k health. Most vet bosses can one-shot you. In the midst of the fight in a vet event, you can get one-shot if you don't put up some protective shield/barrier. With my health being at 30k, a strike that would one-shot my groupmates still leaves me with some health to be able to use vigor or igneous shield so I can rapidly regen; thus, being able to revive others.

Other than tanks, I have not seen other dps with health close to mine. I'm not willing to lower my health to the 20k in risk of getting one-shot in a vet event. If I am killed, I can't fight and have to wait on being revived. Granted, I have gone through many with nobody dying once, but in others, I believe one of the factor of success is me not being killed and being able to revive my fallen comrades; particularly in vet dungeons without a tank. So why so many less than positive comments and view on dps with higher health bar?

Nothing in this game that you can avoid can one shot you. As a player you always have two choices:
1. Raise your awareness and focus on dealilng high damage
2. Raise health and use other defensive means to axcounr for lack of awareness and encourage yourself to play bad.

There is no mechanic that can one shot you that you cant avoid in this game.

alexkdd99 · December 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

you are not ineffective. you are inefficient.
about 50% less efficient to real dps players.

and that is not prejudice. that is fact.

and you are far more efficient than wannabe dps players with 13k health at low cp and die all the time. it's just that if your skills improve, you will have to move towards less health and more stam.

What's your source(s) on why you say I am inefficient? You should back it up with something; some example or something. I can always say somebody is no good or that build is lacking, but I have to back it up on why I think such or even add on how someone can improve to be better or how they can get a better build. Although, I do appreciate your feedback, your statement doesn't hold weight. I gave plenty of examples on how I feel my build can be effective and efficient. Also, I don't understand what you are getting at on "if your skills improve.." I know everyone can improve and learn new things everyday no matter what levels they are or how long they have been on ESO. However, your statements just making it sounds I'm still a noob and don't know what the heck I am doing in this game. No bashing against you at all. Don't think that way, please.. just my perspective.

People have showed you how to test your real dps. Without you doing that it is impossible to compare your current setup to anything. It is fact that the lower your stam is the lower your damage will be. No other way around it.

In order to really have any sort of debate about it though you will have to test and find out what your real dps is. If you just go test your dps and then change your gear so you have under 20k health with alot more stam, then I am sure you will see just how much more damage you will do.

Again I don't think anyone is trying to tell you what to do or how to play. Just that in this game you are at a disadvantage dps wise when you stack health like that.

I am at 18k health and around 40k magicka and almost never die. If you lower your health and increase stam you will become a better or atleast stronger player. You will have to change your play style though. This game in its current state does not make hybrids very good in comparison to dumping all into one stat.

Just test your dps like others have suggested and then compare to other stam dk dps.

hedna123b14_ESO · December 2016

Actually never mind, I retract my comment. The post started with "as a 2h nord dk"....with that setup you may as well run 40k health it wouldnt really change much for you.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

raj72616a wrote: »

having 30k health, you miss out 15k stats which could be put into stam, and that translates into 1434 weapon damage.

"i have 30k health, i use 2H, but i am a great dps! i am not scientific and wont discuss the numbers with you , i am not going to talk about equipments and skills setup! but i am great!"

how did i fall to this troll bait? lol

Ha ha.. I never said I was a great dps. That is your own assumption there. Also, I did posted my numbers and builds several times. Appreciate your further input, though. Good conversation. Yes, you and others do make a good argument on more stam equals more wpn dam. My side of the debate is not whether you get more damages with more stam. That is common knowledge. My side of this debate is having more health, like mine, is still useful and should not be prejudge and negated, even though, most so far have commented that it is useless or worthless. Sure, I can drop down my health and put in more stam. I did that sometime ago. I had 20k health and almost 36k stam. The problem was I was getting killed, at times, by one or two hits from a vet boss or in a trial, especially in vCoS and even during normal trials. Since switching to higher health and balancing the current stam at 29k, I died less or not at all, which in turn, I'm able to sustain survivability, thus, being able to revive my team/group mate so we could push on without having to restart the fight or the boss resetting his health. I was not able to solo world bosses in Wrothgar or the other DLC, even when I was 20k health/36 Stam, until my current build and setup. Although, it is a longer and rougher fight, I can solo a lot of those boss pits without dying; doesn't matter if each have 1.8 millions or 5 millions health. I would also love to have my stam increased while maintaining my health in the 30k more, but I haven't found a way yet. This is the current balance of heath/stam that I can come up with, so far, that I can function fairly well.

I don't consider myself a great or a hardcore top tier player, never said I am, and I'm sure I am not. However, I don't need to be such to enjoy or play ESO. It's doesn't bother me that some don't think or believe I or my group ever finish a vet group event. I don't need or want to be in a group that their only passion or objective is to finish a trial or dungeon in the fastest time ever, to break a record or have to be on top on the leaders board. I have ran dungeons, trials and other group events, vet or not, with folks that seek to experience the event, and the objective is to get through it with everybody, as a team; whatever the players' level or build.

I've also ran plenty of group events, random queuing at times, where we had someone who thinks he is a hotshot, particularly those with flawless conqueror title or former emperor. Then, somehow he made a mistake, died once or maybe twice during a boss fight, then complains and left the group/event. I also don't think that I was ever being carried through a group event, where I am still standing throughout and reviving the dead continuously. Many times, going through a vet event, particularly when we did not have a Tank, it is my higher health that kept me alive to revive the others. Otherwise, all of us would've bit the dust and have to restart the fight where the boss's health would reset.

Another example, on the vet Direfrost fight with the final boss, where she often regen; particularly after you read the scroll. That fight is brutal, no matter who is in the group (DW, Templar.) It is a long fight no matter how much dps you're putting out. I haven't die once yet, since this built, but the others with their lower health level was continuously dying when each made the mistake of not rolling away from her aoe. What enables us to finish without having to restart, even once, is my higher health kept me alive. Even when I made that mistake and not seeing where she respawn with her aoe, she would tear up my health meter to almost the very bottom, but I did not die and was able to throw up my igneous and vigor. Whereas, the others were getting one-shot kill from her aoe.

It also doesn't bother me if someone sees me, with my higher health, and then perceive I would be lacking in their team. I wouldn't want to be a part in that group or team. Although, that is ok. I understand a lot of players who consider themselves to be top tier or hardcore want others who they perceive to be in their same caliber. Cool, go and get your super team, break that record, if that's the objective. However, it is ignorant just to say a dps with higher health, like mine, is worthless or not a real dps. Good for that someone who can dish out 50k or over damage in a single strike, but when that someone die, I've revive you so you can continue on to dish out your damages. In the meantime, I'm keep on dishing out my damages.

Jeremy · December 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

As a 2H Nord DK, I've played around with different builds and currently settled with a 5-piece DKS base, Agility set and Skoria monster set. My health is 30k and Stam at around 29k, and I am a dps for dungeons and trial. So, I read more stamina adds up to more wpn dam, but I favor the higher health for survivability. So, I am asked often if I am a tank or at times, why do I have "high health?" True, usually only Tanks have more health than I, but Tanks normally have lower wpn dam/dps. Also, majority of the toons running around, you can clearly see their health are in the medium of 15-16k. I have also seen plenty of 561 CPs running around with health bar around 12-13k and not much others hitting the 20k mark with food buff in dungeons and trials.

To me, 12-20k health is low. I found the medium with my current health/stam distribution and still have almost 3700 overall non-proc wpn dam. This gives me survivability from not getting one-shot from vet dungeons or trials. My dps is fine.. I'm sure not the best, but I fair well with 16k-29k from a single strike to 33-40k with combo/animation cancelling, which is very sustainable in dungeons and trials. I'm sure I can increase my stam and get higher wpn dam, but I would have to sacrifice 10k of my health to increase my stam. I have ran plenty of vet dungeons and trials, even vet trials, and aside from dungeons like vet Fungal or vet CoS where a boss traps you and if your teammates doesn't interrupt in time, anyone can get 1-hit killed; other than that, I don't die much.

I find myself more times reviving my fallen comrades in vet dungeons and trials. 561 CP or not, my view is they are being killed easier because their health are below 20k health. Most vet bosses can one-shot you. In the midst of the fight in a vet event, you can get one-shot if you don't put up some protective shield/barrier. With my health being at 30k, a strike that would one-shot my groupmates still leaves me with some health to be able to use vigor or igneous shield so I can rapidly regen; thus, being able to revive others.

Other than tanks, I have not seen other dps with health close to mine. I'm not willing to lower my health to the 20k in risk of getting one-shot in a vet event. If I am killed, I can't fight and have to wait on being revived. Granted, I have gone through many with nobody dying once, but in others, I believe one of the factor of success is me not being killed and being able to revive my fallen comrades; particularly in vet dungeons without a tank. So why so many less than positive comments and view on dps with higher health bar?

Yeah I agree. You need over 20k health if you want to avoid being killed instantly in some dungeons - unless the player is very diligent at keeping shields up or something. 30k seems a bit excessive to me. But if you can manage that while still putting out enough DPS to clear the boss fights then sounds like a win/win.

A good example would be the final boss in Veteran Wayrest Sewers 1. I see her routinely instant kill DPS who are sitting under 20k health.

Buffler · December 2016

OP, you ask for advice and peoples input and when its not quite what you want you are shutting them down.

I will be blunt. Your build is awful for top tier DPS. You like it and thats fine, you enjoy it solo and thats fine. In vet trials i run with 17k hp and dont die, healers heal and i dont stand in stupid. With your setup a real min/maxer dps build could die 4/5 times in one boss fight and still outperform your dps.

Jeremy · December 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

having 30k health, you miss out 15k stats which could be put into stam, and that translates into 1434 weapon damage.

"i have 30k health, i use 2H, but i am a great dps! i am not scientific and wont discuss the numbers with you , i am not going to talk about equipments and skills setup! but i am great!"

how did i fall to this troll bait? lol

Ha ha.. I never said I was a great dps. That is your own assumption there. Also, I did posted my numbers and builds several times. Appreciate your further input, though. Good conversation. Yes, you and others do make a good argument on more stam equals more wpn dam. My side of the debate is not whether you get more damages with more stam. That is common knowledge. My side of this debate is having more health, like mine, is still useful and should not be prejudge and negated, even though, most so far have commented that it is useless or worthless. Sure, I can drop down my health and put in more stam. I did that sometime ago. I had 20k health and almost 36k stam. The problem was I was getting killed, at times, by one or two hits from a vet boss or in a trial, especially in vCoS and even during normal trials. Since switching to higher health and balancing the current stam at 29k, I died less or not at all, which in turn, I'm able to sustain survivability, thus, being able to revive my team/group mate so we could push on without having to restart the fight or the boss resetting his health. I was not able to solo world bosses in Wrothgar or the other DLC, even when I was 20k health/36 Stam, until my current build and setup. Although, it is a longer and rougher fight, I can solo a lot of those boss pits without dying; doesn't matter if each have 1.8 millions or 5 millions health. I would also love to have my stam increased while maintaining my health in the 30k more, but I haven't found a way yet. This is the current balance of heath/stam that I can come up with, so far, that I can function fairly well.

I don't consider myself a great or a hardcore top tier player, never said I am, and I'm sure I am not. However, I don't need to be such to enjoy or play ESO. It's doesn't bother me that some don't think or believe I or my group ever finish a vet group event. I don't need or want to be in a group that their only passion or objective is to finish a trial or dungeon in the fastest time ever, to break a record or have to be on top on the leaders board. I have ran dungeons, trials and other group events, vet or not, with folks that seek to experience the event, and the objective is to get through it with everybody, as a team; whatever the players' level or build.

I've also ran plenty of group events, random queuing at times, where we had someone who thinks he is a hotshot, particularly those with flawless conqueror title or former emperor. Then, somehow he made a mistake, died once or maybe twice during a boss fight, then complains and left the group/event. I also don't think that I was ever being carried through a group event, where I am still standing throughout and reviving the dead continuously. Many times, going through a vet event, particularly when we did not have a Tank, it is my higher health that kept me alive to revive the others. Otherwise, all of us would've bit the dust and have to restart the fight where the boss's health would reset.

Another example, on the vet Direfrost fight with the final boss, where she often regen; particularly after you read the scroll. That fight is brutal, no matter who is in the group (DW, Templar.) It is a long fight no matter how much dps you're putting out. I haven't die once yet, since this built, but the others with their lower health level was continuously dying when each made the mistake of not rolling away from her aoe. What enables us to finish without having to restart, even once, is my higher health kept me alive. Even when I made that mistake and not seeing where she respawn with her aoe, she would tear up my health meter to almost the very bottom, but I did not die and was able to throw up my igneous and vigor. Whereas, the others were getting one-shot kill from her aoe.

It also doesn't bother me if someone sees me, with my higher health, and then perceive I would be lacking in their team. I wouldn't want to be a part in that group or team. Although, that is ok. I understand a lot of players who consider themselves to be top tier or hardcore want others who they perceive to be in their same caliber. Cool, go and get your super team, break that record, if that's the objective. However, it is ignorant just to say a dps with higher health, like mine, is worthless or not a real dps. Good for that someone who can dish out 50k or over damage in a single strike, but when that someone die, I've revive you so you can continue on to dish out your damages. In the meantime, I'm keep on dishing out my damages.

On that fight (which I wouldn't describe as particularly brutal) her AoE is pretty easy to avoid though. So in that circumstance I would suggest that increasing your damage and relying on dodging would be the smarter strategy then buffing your health to the point you can take the hit.

That boss shouldn't be getting regen either. If she is, that means someone isn't breaking free of her ability fast enough.

The two fights that I believe do your argument the most credit are the final bosses in Wayrest Sewers I and Tempest Island. It is very difficult to stay alive in those two fights with low health.

Rosveen · December 2016

There was no need to turn it into an argument, you're talking about two completely different playstyles.

If you're a highly skilled, well-geared damage dealer in an optimized group, then going all the way into stamina is reasonable. Thanks to teamwork and skillful play, you can usually stay alive without additional investment in health. This is the option for high end competitive players

However, if you're less skilled and/or in a subpar group, or playing solo, then survivability is a greater concern. A bigger health pool is useful when you know your timing might be off or that you'll sometimes have to carry the battle alone after the rest of the group wipes, or that you just can't rely on them to shield and heal you perfectly. Again, this is a reasonable approach - just for a different type of player. There's no conflict here. You won't top the leaderboards with this kind of setup, but you should still be able to complete most content in the game, which is enough for a lot of people.

pattyLtd · December 2016

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Mr. Wrobel had stated that in the homestead patch ( U13) he and his team will be making Health a more valuable resource stat.

that makes me worry

@OP: Why get so defensive?
Nobody is telling you you are bad or whatever, you asked a question and got the opinions of others as the answer. Let it go, if you enjoy your build its good enough but you asked for our opinions a d got it

GreenhaloX · December 2016

pattyLtd wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Mr. Wrobel had stated that in the homestead patch ( U13) he and his team will be making Health a more valuable resource stat.

that makes me worry

@OP: Why get so defensive?
Nobody is telling you you are bad or whatever, you asked a question and got the opinions of others as the answer. Let it go, if you enjoy your build its good enough but you asked for our opinions a d got it

Ha ha, yes @pattyLtd. I agree with you. We should end this. However, I do want to add that it is human nature to get defensive when others talk bad or less than positive things about you; which have occurred in sporadic posts in replies here. Yes, I got a little bit defensive when someone wrote "I stink, or I am only 50% of a real dps, or my build suck, or you will never work or fit in with my group." Those are quite inflammatory to me. I sort of anticipated that. Not many posts within this forum are met with all positive and civility. So, I figured there would some bad remarks here and there. However, many other posts/replies to my posting here have been constructive. Rest assure, you were one of the many constructive ones, and I appreciate that.

So, I just want to end with these notes. I have scanned over many youtube videos from the good Deltia, Alcast, Fengrush and other videos on how-to and what-not. Literally, these guys are very knowledgeable of ESO and exceptional players. However, I am seeing many of their examples of different builds are showing weapon damages only in the higher 2000 bracket, and I don't believe I recall any breaking the 3k weapon damage mark. Even from their no-death and speed run videos that they posted, I rarely saw any damage output numbers over 15k, during their dps mode. However, damages were constantly being put out continuously from 3k to the means of 12-13k, which is the way it should be.

Bottom line is, I am now a bit more confident (after seeing those clips from these good fellows) that I have a fairly good build (despite a lot of trash talk and pushback towards my build) and dpsing capability, from having balanced out my health and stam meter and maintaining my overall weapon damages of 37k. I actually believe I have come across a combo of two 5-piece sets that will increase more health and stamina as well as keeping weapon damage in the higher bracket. Just been farming trying to get those pieces to test it out.

Anyways, I'll end with this note. I guess it comes down to whatever you're comfortable with. Not everyone will be in tune or agree with you. Just keep playing, enjoy the game and do what you do.