Something unexpected after One Tamriel

lillybit · December 2016

At first I loved this update, it's great having crowded zones and being able to group with other factions.

As I've played it a while tho, I've noticed a general reluctance to complete content creeping in.

I mostly play on my main which I've pretty much done all the quests on but I've got several alts that I play occasionally, all at different levels.

Now that quest rewards can be actual useful set items, sometimes even in useful traits, I'm finding it don't want to complete them while I'm still leveling. I don't want a level 32 sharpened Sword in that set my main's been farming for weeks, when I can leave the quest for after I hit level 50 and get it max level.

This is really annoying because I've always leveled alts through questing; I just don't have the patience to grind, but now I'm considering doing just that so my alt can collect useful stuff instead of junk!

So didn't see this coming!

Anyone else noticed this or other unexpected side effects from OT?

Sigtric · December 2016

Yep, that's how it works. Thankfully with where I am in the game now, it works to my benefit - but I can definitely see it as frustrating for you.

Nestor · December 2016

Yep.

Now I level Alts by chasing Skyshards, Lorebooks, Public Dungeons and Dolmens in a zone. I don't do any quests other than the Delve Quests that have Skyshards in them, as those rewards are not useful anyway at any level. I just took a character to L50 by doing this in 6 of the zones, but I still have most all the quests in those zones left to do. All the loot I did get is repeatable on level so no loss there. Now, any rewards I get will be CP160.

But, to take a character out of the Wailing Prison and start them on the story, Zone, Main or otherwise? Nope. Not until they are L50, and at Champ Rank.

hrothbern · December 2016

lillybit wrote: »

At first I loved this update, it's great having crowded zones and being able to group with other factions.

As I've played it a while tho, I've noticed a general reluctance to complete content creeping in.

I mostly play on my main which I've pretty much done all the quests on but I've got several alts that I play occasionally, all at different levels.

Now that quest rewards can be actual useful set items, sometimes even in useful traits, I'm finding it don't want to complete them while I'm still leveling. I don't want a level 32 sharpened Sword in that set my main's been farming for weeks, when I can leave the quest for after I hit level 50 and get it max level.

This is really annoying because I've always leveled alts through questing; I just don't have the patience to grind, but now I'm considering doing just that so my alt can collect useful stuff instead of junk!

So didn't see this coming!

Anyone else noticed this or other unexpected side effects from OT?

Below my post on the issue you mention @lillybit ,

What I really do not like aboiut it, is that it punishes the unaware newbie player, who has not enough time to invest in fast levelling an alt to get the lvl 50 set items.
I guess/hope ZOS overlooked the issue, and will adress it.

A unorthodox way to adress it would be to give us the ability to reset the quests !
One of my daughters who started ESO with the pre-order in the Ebonheart Pact, where the quests were totally bugged at the early start, would really like to redo the quests now.
And not with an alt, but with her beloved main charachter, she is really attached to.

Anyway: here my post from Oct: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3420332#Comment_3420332

hrothbern wrote: »

Good reading
most things I could think off already being said
We can join everywhere in questing with anybody we like.

Lvl 50 characters can catch up questing and go grinding for sets of their liking with satisfying nodes and XP (CP).

We can find everywhere again NPC's/Monsters with a drop rate for unique achievement items

Basically the vertical progression of lvl 1-50 has been removed.
Only the vertical progression of CP's is left.
And you have with all the new sets a wealth of horizontal progression from sets, besides ofc your skill leveling.

So all in all I think this One-Tamriel is great !

The only negative of the old system that One Tamriel did not adress, is that a slow levelling character, doing all the quests one by one is still punished with the set items he will pick up along the way.
When that character has become lvl 50 he can decon all the set items gathered, and start all over again to grind for his desired sets at CP 160 level.
A character that fast grinds to lvl 50 (and CP 160 if not yet on a CP 160+ account) and then goes slowly through the full questing content will gather set items he can keep on using.

=> mindless fast levelling is still favored by the set item drop mechanics !!!
I cannot believe that this is truly the intention of ZOS.
And it cannot be too difficult to think out something, that adresses this as well.

EDIT:
Hint: just allow Crafters to be able to upgrade set items to CP 160 level

Enodoc · December 2016

Remove quest rewards from sets again, like they were before. Problem solved.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Is there any reason why you're not just leveling up to 50 which will then apply the CP (hoping you're already cp160)?

Serious question cause while grinding isn't fun, I don't think I understand not doing quest but leveling if u have this point of view

Suggestions:

-run dungeons
-run delve
-run Doleman
-find a place and kill in circles for sets you want cause it'll keep upgrading as you level up
-grind in PvP delves or grind in IC sewers

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · December 2016

Nestor wrote: »

But, to take a character out of the Wailing Prison and start them on the story, Zone, Main or otherwise? Nope. Not until they are L50, and at Champ Rank.

Agreed. Questing at low levels is just throwing away CP's.

BlackSparrow · December 2016

Here's my take on it, as someone who also has a gazillion alts:

If you go the questing route, playing one alliance straight through takes you from 1-50 pretty cleanly. Then, that character hits level cap and you have your CP points free to go do the quests on the other two alliances for full rewards.

The next alt levels through questing in a different alliance, hits level cap... and then can go to the first character's first alliance to get the max level quest rewards there.

Basically, if you level multiple characters, you can have them fill one another's gaps as far as max level quest rewards go... multiple times over, depending on how many alts you take questing at CP 160. So worrying about "saving" quests for max rewards is really a non-issue, as long as you have someone else to run through the quests at max level.

For once, my chronic altitis pays off.

STEVIL · December 2016

lillybit wrote: »

At first I loved this update, it's great having crowded zones and being able to group with other factions.

As I've played it a while tho, I've noticed a general reluctance to complete content creeping in.

I mostly play on my main which I've pretty much done all the quests on but I've got several alts that I play occasionally, all at different levels.

Now that quest rewards can be actual useful set items, sometimes even in useful traits, I'm finding it don't want to complete them while I'm still leveling. I don't want a level 32 sharpened Sword in that set my main's been farming for weeks, when I can leave the quest for after I hit level 50 and get it max level.

This is really annoying because I've always leveled alts through questing; I just don't have the patience to grind, but now I'm considering doing just that so my alt can collect useful stuff instead of junk!

So didn't see this coming!

Anyone else noticed this or other unexpected side effects from OT?

Consider the following:
Run thru every starter zone first. that should get you to bar swap.
Run thru fighters guild and mages guild and even main story as far as you want/can. their rewards still suck. likely this can get you into the 20s.
if you have DLCs and already have any of those sets (because you ran that over and over before OneT scaled the others) run them.
Run thru any first zones you want - but look at their sets to choose which you dont want later. Run the sucky ones first.

I like you enjoy the questing parts during leveling and dont do the grind grind grind. but since 1t i have been looking at which zones in which order to get "out of the way" during leveling to save the ones where i really want their sets for post-lvl-50-cap.

The other advantage to running all the starter islands first is you wind up with good levels on training set pieces which serve you well for a while as you gather other pieces.

And yeah, for some side quests, i did hold off the final turn in. Even though its ornate i wanted the necromancer harpy feather shirt. (though i though at one point it has its own unique and gawdy look.)

starlizard70ub17_ESO · December 2016

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

But, to take a character out of the Wailing Prison and start them on the story, Zone, Main or otherwise? Nope. Not until they are L50, and at Champ Rank.

Agreed. Questing at low levels is just throwing away CP's.

I didn't do the last quest of the mage guild, fighter's guild or main quest until my alt was lvl 50, (already well past the 160cp level), just so I could the weapon rewards at the highest level. The prophet's staff and the prismatic bow are pretty kick ass ungraded to gold at level 50 160cp.

lillybit · December 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Is there any reason why you're not just leveling up to 50 which will then apply the CP (hoping you're already cp160)?

Serious question cause while grinding isn't fun, I don't think I understand not doing quest but leveling if u have this point of view

Suggestions:

-run dungeons
-run delve
-run Doleman
-find a place and kill in circles for sets you want cause it'll keep upgrading as you level up
-grind in PvP delves or grind in IC sewers

Tbh my answer so far has mostly been to not play the low level alts, which is kind of my point.

I haven't wanted to just grind to 50 before now because for me it defeats the purpose of playing. I don't get all that much play time, I want to enjoy what I'm doing and not just endure it so I can enjoy it more next week. If I have to, I will, I'd just rather find other ways around it.

Thank you to everyone for the brilliant suggestions, I'll be more selective with my questing from now on!

jedtb16_ESO · December 2016

my alt levelling, for now, is crafting.... so not a problem.

starkerealm · December 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Remove quest rewards from sets again, like they were before. Problem solved.

Or shift itemization away from levels... that's another one.

Rouven · December 2016

I kinda wondered about that when I received my first good quest reward, or should I say a shiny purple - but then I thought to myself I'm not going to worry about it.

The only thing I did so far to improve "efficiency" is installing the skyshards mod, simply because I know I will be bored if I have to run around later just to get those, so I rather grab those running around during my "adventures".

Keep in mind I'm still new, once I've done every quest and I'm leveling yet another character that might change.

SickDuck · December 2016

Those rewards are really nice but nothing groundshaking. You can get better traits for end game and probably better sets too that fit you more. Holding up questing just because of that looks a bit silly to me.

On the other hand these sets help new players put together a semi-decent set bonus. They may not have other resources to get this quality equipment.

jedtb16_ESO · December 2016

Rouven wrote: »

I kinda wondered about that when I received my first good quest reward, or should I say a shiny purple - but then I thought to myself I'm not going to worry about it.

The only thing I did so far to improve "efficiency" is installing the skyshards mod, simply because I know I will be bored if I have to run around later just to get those, so I rather grab those running around during my "adventures".

Keep in mind I'm still new, once I've done every quest and I'm leveling yet another character that might change.

if you are enjoying the experience then it is all fine and dandy.

if not.... perhaps counselling is in oreder

Soella · December 2016

I leveled my new alt through main quest (tons of skill points, not 15 level bottleneck anymore) and all guild quests. That plus some delves/anchors on the way was enough to get to 50.

Rouven · December 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

I kinda wondered about that when I received my first good quest reward, or should I say a shiny purple - but then I thought to myself I'm not going to worry about it.

The only thing I did so far to improve "efficiency" is installing the skyshards mod, simply because I know I will be bored if I have to run around later just to get those, so I rather grab those running around during my "adventures".

Keep in mind I'm still new, once I've done every quest and I'm leveling yet another character that might change.

if you are enjoying the experience then it is all fine and dandy.

if not.... perhaps counselling is in oreder

You mean if I would not enjoy playing but would still do it? I was more thinking along the lines of leveling for another purpose (class/skills/race) I guess for a handful of crowns you can change everything about your character so it would not be truly necessary *shrugs*, haven't thought about it in detail just yet.

I'm getting good at spotting a certain fatigue within myself. Then I take breaks, be it with other games or *gasp* offline activities. Anyways, enough sidetracking here - back to the side effects of 1T.

Actually I have a point here - I think there might be some flow lost here in terms of questing. While I very much enjoyed following (and finishing) the main story line with my first character I kinda wondered how the narrative would have been different to me if I would have had to basically level up within the maps first.

Does anyone still have information on what levels the maps used to be?

lillybit · December 2016

SickDuck wrote: »

Those rewards are really nice but nothing groundshaking. You can get better traits for end game and probably better sets too that fit you more. Holding up questing just because of that looks a bit silly to me.

On the other hand these sets help new players put together a semi-decent set bonus. They may not have other resources to get this quality equipment.

If I was playing it through the first time I don't think I'd have given it a second thought. I spent a large part of my early game with low level armour stashed everywhere for alts to use when it was needed. I didn't have any set bonuses for quite a while when I started so I completely agree they're a godsend to new players.

However, I'm almost entirely a solo player so no, for me there aren't better sets. The alt I've been avoiding playing is in Malabal Tor where I've been visiting on and off for weeks with my main trying to get Spinner's set pieces. I don't think it's that silly that I couldn't bring myself to carry on there with an alt and end up with exactly what I'd been looking for at the wrong level.

I know the whole point of OT is that it isn't linear anymore but hey, I'm a linear kind of gal! It never occurred to me to leave off what I was in the middle of and just go somewhere else. I didnt realise delves were always rubbish rewards. I definitely didn't think of picking areas to 'get out of the way' early to leave the good stuff for later. So I'm lucky there were some people who wanted to help with my silly problem!

jedtb16_ESO · December 2016

Rouven wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

I kinda wondered about that when I received my first good quest reward, or should I say a shiny purple - but then I thought to myself I'm not going to worry about it.

The only thing I did so far to improve "efficiency" is installing the skyshards mod, simply because I know I will be bored if I have to run around later just to get those, so I rather grab those running around during my "adventures".

Keep in mind I'm still new, once I've done every quest and I'm leveling yet another character that might change.

if you are enjoying the experience then it is all fine and dandy.

if not.... perhaps counselling is in oreder

You mean if I would not enjoy playing but would still do it? I was more thinking along the lines of leveling for another purpose (class/skills/race) I guess for a handful of crowns you can change everything about your character so it would not be truly necessary *shrugs*, haven't thought about it in detail just yet.

I'm getting good at spotting a certain fatigue within myself. Then I take breaks, be it with other games or *gasp* offline activities. Anyways, enough sidetracking here - back to the side effects of 1T.

Actually I have a point here - I think there might be some flow lost here in terms of questing. While I very much enjoyed following (and finishing) the main story line with my first character I kinda wondered how the narrative would have been different to me if I would have had to basically level up within the maps first.

Does anyone still have information on what levels the maps used to be?

you can't buy skill point or, when you get there, cp - ok you can get booster scrolls but that diverts from the enjoyment of the game.

if you look you can find sites that will give you map progression for any of the alliances.

my point was simply that if you are enjoying the experience of playing what else matters?

Rouven · December 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you can't buy skill point or, when you get there, cp - ok you can get booster scrolls but that diverts from the enjoyment of the game.

if you look you can find sites that will give you map progression for any of the alliances.

my point was simply that if you are enjoying the experience of playing what else matters?

Was thinking along the lines of "changing" an existing high level character.

Yeah, maybe I'll hunt for old maps and play one character like that.

I agree, the main point is to have fun - and that might be different from person to person (edit: in terms of what you find fun)

PS4_ZeColmeia · December 2016

This helps favor the reason to make an alt, whereas most of the game doesn't necessarily discourage it, it doesn't help it along either. I think this is a good thing, it's the first thing to push me to get off of my 1 character horse.

starkerealm · December 2016

SickDuck wrote: »

Those rewards are really nice but nothing groundshaking.

Jakarn's Sharpened Machete of the Trainee comes to mind.

Nestor · December 2016

lillybit wrote: »

didnt realise delves were always rubbish rewards.

There are two kinds of Delve Rewards, the Quest Rewards, and the Boss Drops. The quest rewards for the Delve Quests are the things that are not all that good. Boss Drops, go back when your max rank. I farmed Elegant stuff at L10, and I am doing so again at CP160.

So, you find a gear set you like while leveling, go back to that zone at max rank and farm that again.

On the web somewhere is a list of all the Dropped Set items that come from Quest Rewards. That can help you determine what quests to do while leveling, and what ones to leave for later. Me, I just now level my characters like I outlined above, and I don't have to worry about quest rewards, I will get them all at max rank.

Also, following my suggestion, you can still treat each zone linearly. You have not done any real story quests and any quests that need to send you back a delve will still do that. I did a /played on the last character I leveled and it was 40 hours and I puttered and frequently left him standing around idle. Based on how quickly I gained the first 30 Levels (12 hours Played) I could hit L50 in 20 to 25 hours if I focused. I still have some skill leveling to do, but that's OK, I am quite deadly.

jedtb16_ESO · December 2016

Rouven wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

you can't buy skill point or, when you get there, cp - ok you can get booster scrolls but that diverts from the enjoyment of the game.

if you look you can find sites that will give you map progression for any of the alliances.

my point was simply that if you are enjoying the experience of playing what else matters?

Was thinking along the lines of "changing" an existing high level character.

Yeah, maybe I'll hunt for old maps and play one character like that.

I agree, the main point is to have fun - and that might be different from person to person (edit: in terms of what you find fun)

ok... at least we can agree that fun - given individual preference - is the important thing.

i would say that, rather than changing an existing high level character, making a new one and following a different path would give more enjoyment - allowing for the pre-stated caveat.

scorpiodog · December 2016

I've started looking at the equipment in a Zone before I level an alt in it. For example, I don't really like the gear in Glenumbra, so that's where I send my lowest level characters for Public Dungeons, Delves, and Dolmens no matter what their alliance. I like the armor in Auridon and Stonefalls more, so that's where I send my 50+ characters.

Tannus15 · December 2016

scorpiodog wrote: »

I've started looking at the equipment in a Zone before I level an alt in it. For example, I don't really like the gear in Glenumbra, so that's where I send my lowest level characters for Public Dungeons, Delves, and Dolmens no matter what their alliance. I like the armor in Auridon and Stonefalls more, so that's where I send my 50+ characters.

This. I'm basically picking what zones to complete at level > 50 and level < 50 on if I want those sets for cp160+ or not.

Enodoc · December 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Remove quest rewards from sets again, like they were before. Problem solved.

Or shift itemization away from levels... that's another one.

Heh, sounds good to me! Something that may be more useful than my previous comment is to consider that not all quest rewards are set items (at least, I don't think they are). The small quests only grant Gold, and even the more major side quests which do reward items do not always give set items.

Vostorn · December 2016

Unique items should be BOP and scale with the level. Problem solved.

kylewwefan · December 2016

Yeah. The SPC Necklace from WGT quest.

AlnilamE · December 2016

I guess no matter what they do, ZOS can't make people happy.

And no, if they shift quest rewards away from levels, people will complain that leveling alts will give them the same "crap" over and over again.

Maybe they should just make all set quest rewards Training or Prosperous?