You can pick up the explorers pack at some Internet retailers for like $2 usd. This is not a big deal.

Also, one of the top tanks in the game is a khajiit. Racial passives are a crutch.

Sigtric wrote: »

You can pick up the explorers pack at some Internet retailers for like $2 usd. This is not a big deal.

Also, one of the top tanks in the game is a khajiit. Racial passives are a crutch.

i don't want to turn this into an argument, but the reason that player is one of the top tanks is due to the fact that it makes full use of the Khajit passives...admitedly it is due to how well it "synergises" with the sets and the skills used (showing a cleverly thought out build and play style), nonetheless it still makes use of the passives in order to be able to do this

Sure, as soon as ZOS refunds all players who paid for Imperial Edition....which will be never

Kaizokugari wrote: »

No advantage for PvE.

But it gives you advantage in your alliance's class PvP leaderboards for starters.

Lol actually the advantage is mainly PvE where it's all about min maxing. In PVP skill > race.

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

You can pick up the explorers pack at some Internet retailers for like $2 usd. This is not a big deal.

Also, one of the top tanks in the game is a khajiit. Racial passives are a crutch.

i don't want to turn this into an argument, but the reason that player is one of the top tanks is due to the fact that it makes full use of the Khajit passives...admitedly it is due to how well it "synergises" with the sets and the skills used (showing a cleverly thought out build and play style), nonetheless it still makes use of the passives in order to be able to do this

I genuinely lol'd. Making full use of the khajit passives?

So expansion packs are now considered p2w, thank you for clearing that up. Every game is now p2w I guess, especially ones with online multiplayer. WoW is p2w, Fallout 4 is p2w, holy balls, even Dwarf Fortress is p2w and that game is completely free!

Riejael wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

If that bothers you on principle, make a choice to stay or go. Its not hard. It either offends you enough to quit, or it doesn't. Most don't think so, in case you want to go with the flow of the masses. And you won't be able to convince them otherwise.

So now you know the fact of your situation, will you stay or not?

Why everytime someone brings up something about the game that they consider not good/p2w/buggy e.t.c., the common suggestion is either he stays and shuts up or goes?

I didn't question why anyone still plays the game in its current state nor do I say this is game breaking or anything else nor do I incite anyone to burn ZOS HQ to the ground. I'm making a case that buying your racial passives while non-buyers are restricted to passives tied to their respective alliance is, by definition of p2w, a p2w mechanism, in the essence that it gives you an ingame advantage against other players of your faction, with whom you do contest in a PvP leaderboard for extra rewards.

Most of you might be alright with that. Most of you might still not consider it P2W in your definition or interpretation of what P2W is. And it it is perfectly fine for it to stay like that if the majority wants it and pays for it. I'm just stating that I don't like that. That's all. No need to show me the way or make me pledge my eternal loyalty to ZOS.

A common arguement I see is the famous "If you want it, pay for it" or even worse "I payed so everybody should pay for it". This is not the point. The point is if your action of paying gives you an advantage, in any way, which most of the people here I see denying, which is again perfectly fine but would be really more helpful and constructive if it was expressed in the form of arguements and discussion points instead of dank cat memes and irony.

TESO isn't and propably won't ever be my main MMO, the one I subscribe too or the one I'm gonna spent stuff on the store for. And that's perfectly fine too. Everything has its place and TESO has given me back great fun in exchange for my money. But was at least something I could commend on my friends looking for some MMO alternatives. I don't get why can't a buyer of this product, discuss critically about certain aspects of the game without getting QQ and getting shown the exit.

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Sure, as soon as ZOS refunds all players who paid for Imperial Edition....which will be never

Someone said this already, but "Any Race, Any Alliance" was not part of the Imperial Edition. It was part of the Explorer Pack, which was the pre-order bonus. I got the standard edition, so I paid less than Imperial Edition purchasers, but since I pre-ordered, I got the Explorer Pack. Those who purchased Standard on release day paid the same as me, but as I pre-ordered I have ARAA which they didn't. Similarly, anyone who purchased Imperial on release day would have paid the same as you, but you have ARAA because you pre-ordered.

The only people who should get a refund if ZOS decided to unlock ARAA for everyone would be those people who bought the Adventurer Pack on the Crown Store.

Kaizokugari wrote: »

Norbi wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

No advantage for PvE.

But it gives you advantage in your alliance's class PvP leaderboards for starters.

That's not an advantage.. xD

Better leaderboard position - > better rewards? Above 2% I believe.

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

If they do that, I want my Imperial Edition ESO partially refunded. One of the only reason I beta-tested and then jumped on board early by purchasing the Imperial Edition package was to get the "play the Imperial race and any race, any alliance". By providing a refund, if they make this change, then I would happily support this idea. Otherwise, naw...not for you late comers unless you pay for it like the rest of us.

"I bought a new toaster from your store 2 years ago, I used and enjoyed the s***t out of it but now you're giving it for free I want some money back"

AlienSlof wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

Question then: does this payed service gives you any advantage at all against a player who has not payed for the service?

No.

All it does is allow you to choose any race in any alliance at character creation. So you can basically play your chosen race in your chosen faction, even if they weren't originally available in that faction.

It's called the Adventurer's Pack (I think) in the Crown Store. Well worth the cost IMO.

Thought experiment. Ignore even the PvP leaderboard rewards, this is not the main point.

Two players have the same guild. The same gear. The same abilities. The same work. The same faction. Everything the same. Identical twins. The only different thing is:

1) One payed for optimal racial skills for his class.

2) The other did not.

Anyone has an advantage?

It is like this, since the release, nobody force you to play on this game that you are not agree with this setting. Yes it's a way of P2W, like getting the DLC as I am able to do one more pledge per day, I can get more stuffs etc, this is also P2W, but ZOS didn't have to change this, like the race choice. It's part of the game, and there is no reason/justification other that (you don't want to pay for it and wanted it for free) to change this.

Kaizokugari wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

If that bothers you on principle, make a choice to stay or go. Its not hard. It either offends you enough to quit, or it doesn't. Most don't think so, in case you want to go with the flow of the masses. And you won't be able to convince them otherwise.

So now you know the fact of your situation, will you stay or not?

Why everytime someone brings up something about the game that they consider not good/p2w/buggy e.t.c., the common suggestion is either he stays and shuts up or goes?

I didn't question why anyone still plays the game in its current state nor do I say this is game breaking or anything else nor do I incite anyone to burn ZOS HQ to the ground. I'm making a case that buying your racial passives while non-buyers are restricted to passives tied to their respective alliance is, by definition of p2w, a p2w mechanism, in the essence that it gives you an ingame advantage against other players of your faction, with whom you do contest in a PvP leaderboard for extra rewards.

Most of you might be alright with that. Most of you might still not consider it P2W in your definition or interpretation of what P2W is. And it it is perfectly fine for it to stay like that if the majority wants it and pays for it. I'm just stating that I don't like that. That's all. No need to show me the way or make me pledge my eternal loyalty to ZOS.

A common arguement I see is the famous "If you want it, pay for it" or even worse "I payed so everybody should pay for it". This is not the point. The point is if your action of paying gives you an advantage, in any way, which most of the people here I see denying, which is again perfectly fine but would be really more helpful and constructive if it was expressed in the form of arguements and discussion points instead of dank cat memes and irony.

TESO isn't and propably won't ever be my main MMO, the one I subscribe too or the one I'm gonna spent stuff on the store for. And that's perfectly fine too. Everything has its place and TESO has given me back great fun in exchange for my money. But was at least something I could commend on my friends looking for some MMO alternatives. I don't get why can't a buyer of this product, discuss critically about certain aspects of the game without getting QQ and getting shown the exit.

But it's not really a P2W mechanic. What you a perceiving as a advantage is so small it's hard to say "yes it's an advantage." When in fact for it to really be an advantage you would have to be a robot that does every thing perfectly, with perfect gear, make no mistakes, ect. Humanly impossible. You are trying to shoe horn a 5% (at best) advantage of one race over another into a massive pay to win mechanic that if you don't use this specific race you'll never be able to be a top contender in what ever boards you're trying to use as an example.

Can we just remove this post because its completely stupid?

Kaizokugari wrote: »

No advantage for PvE.

But it gives you advantage in your alliance's class PvP leaderboards for starters.

LMAO no it doesnt. The people leading the PvP Leaderboards are

1.) Taking advantage of whatever Flavor of the Month/Broken Mechanic the recent update added.
2.) Farming AP like its no ones business.
3.) Have payed a significant amount of gold to others to assist in their climb to the top/Emperor
4.) Have a dedicated PvP Guild backing their rise to glory.


If your class (and hence your racial choice) was the only factor in PvP Leaderboards you might have a point. But because there is so much going on in Cyrodiil at any given moment. Your Class/Race wont be the ultimate deciding factor in where you land on the leaderboards.

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

I don't think you understand this game.
There is an unlock depending on the version of the game you own or a crown store option that allows us to create any character under any alliance faction.

It's been this way at PC launch and before a crown store.
Not sure if the intent of this post unless people aren't aware that this has been an option at purchase included in the price. If you chose poorly it's an added cost.

At the time the Imperial edition included all of this

Question then: does this payed service gives you any advantage at all against a player who has not payed for the service?

No. You can still pick those races without purchasing anything. The only race you can not pick with base game is imperial, which if I remember doesn't give anything special comparing to other races.

Your race choices only determine which faction you play in, unless you purchase something to allow you to play that race in a different alliance. You can still pick any race you want with the exception of imperial.

antihero727 wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction

The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.

That's not P2W. that's called content and all that goes with that content blocked off from those who did not buy said content.

P2W is there is a super awesome sword of I win in the store. if you don't have said sword you will forever suck large pineapples. The only way to get said sword is through real life money..... that's P2W.

Scathing mage? Veledrith? Spell power cure? all of these are hidden behind a paywall as well as many others.

Lol not this again. So you expect them to only release free content? And actually eso made it so you can still obtain some items from dlc through the golden vendor. Eso is far from p2w no matter what people try to say. When people make these crazy claims it only establishes that they haven't played any truly p2w games.

Do people honestly expect developers to only release free content?

Then don't make the armor bind on pickup and make it sellable, problem solved. I get it's a company to make money but hiding things behind real money is the definition of p2w. Disagree if you want but it just might not be at your gone to far lvl.

antihero727 wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

I don't think you understand this game.
There is an unlock depending on the version of the game you own or a crown store option that allows us to create any character under any alliance faction.

It's been this way at PC launch and before a crown store.
Not sure if the intent of this post unless people aren't aware that this has been an option at purchase included in the price. If you chose poorly it's an added cost.

At the time the Imperial edition included all of this

Question then: does this payed service gives you any advantage at all against a player who has not payed for the service?

No. You can still pick those races without purchasing anything. The only race you can not pick with base game is imperial, which if I remember doesn't give anything special comparing to other races.

Your race choices only determine which faction you play in, unless you purchase something to allow you to play that race in a different alliance. You can still pick any race you want with the exception of imperial.

antihero727 wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction

The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.

That's not P2W. that's called content and all that goes with that content blocked off from those who did not buy said content.

P2W is there is a super awesome sword of I win in the store. if you don't have said sword you will forever suck large pineapples. The only way to get said sword is through real life money..... that's P2W.

Scathing mage? Veledrith? Spell power cure? all of these are hidden behind a paywall as well as many others.

Lol not this again. So you expect them to only release free content? And actually eso made it so you can still obtain some items from dlc through the golden vendor. Eso is far from p2w no matter what people try to say. When people make these crazy claims it only establishes that they haven't played any truly p2w games.

Do people honestly expect developers to only release free content?

Then don't make the armor bind on pickup and make it sellable, problem solved. I get it's a company to make money but hiding things behind real money is the definition of p2w. Disagree if you want but it just might not be at your gone to far lvl.

If your definition of P2W is that shallow..... every game that has an expansion is P2W.... I would hate to live in your world.

antihero727 wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Kaizokugari wrote: »

I was aware of the race change but wasn't aware it let's you stay in your first alliance.

If I understood this correctly, you can pay a sum to make a Nord dragonknight to play for the AD? Well, if this is not P2W, I don't know what is.

Lol p2w explain to me how that is p2w being able to play a different race in another faction

The game is p2w now.
1-locking dungeons behind paid DLC with the armor now bind on pick up. When non DLC buyers couldn't buy the armor for gold the shift began.

Super Mario Bros. 3 was Pay to Win too. You had to buy it for your NES to play it!

Damn Nintendo has been ripping us for over 30 years!

It's not the dungeons being behind paywalls that makes it p2w it's the armor that is not sellable that makes it p2w. Lol your child like mind amuses me. I guess our definition of p2w differs but hiding some of the best gear in the game behind a paywall imo is p2w.

Name 1, just one, MMORPG which doesn't do this. Go ahead, I'll wait. Just 1, literally 1 example of an MMO that doesn't lock gear behind expansions. Every...single....one...gates content and gear behind expansions. That's not pay2win.