Did anyone notice that stamina heals better than magicka heals?

Bandit1215 · December 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

I guess that's why you see so many stamina healers in dungeons

He's talking about self heals in pvp bud....

LjAnimalchin · December 2016

I think, honestly, the overwhelming majority of players in general are magicka builds. Go try actually play stam. Stamina healing is fine. Leave it alone!

Enslaved · December 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

mDK can self heal trough skills that kill enemies in the process. If that is not superior in your book, please, kill them by spamming vigor. Or spam rally. All will die of laughter, I'm sure.

I take you have never played a mag DK and that you don't exactly understand what makes rally and vigor such a strong combination.

I play both mDK and sDK on daily basis.

I find that hard to believe, I'm going to say you play with crayons

Nice point, you earned your cookie and tap on the back from other dc zerglings.

Malmai · December 2016

Axorn wrote: »

If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.

Im talking about pvp btw

Its good enough magicka have lot of shields which cannot be critted combine that + bol or critsurge and twilith or sap or funnel and you are dealing dmg + stacking shields + healing...

KingDuncanVII · December 2016

ConeOfSilence wrote: »

Is there anything you actually like about this game OP, seems you do complain on the forum a lot. Lest you have given up on the RD threads for now. Why are you still playing this game ?

I'm assuming, like most of us here, OP has spent a good amount of money on this game. Might as well see if you can shape it into what you think is a better quality product, right? I mean, you've already spent the money.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Axorn wrote: »

If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.

Im talking about pvp btw

think the issue in pvp is that they are probably wearing a high proc weapon power build which can get them to 5-7k wp with 30k+ stamina.

example of that is magicka i believe caps at 4k sp 50k max magicka which if you compare that to stamina is a difference of at least 1500 worth of stats.

psychotic13 · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.

Im talking about pvp btw

think the issue in pvp is that they are probably wearing a high proc weapon power build which can get them to 5-7k wp with 30k+ stamina.

example of that is magicka i believe caps at 4k sp 50k max magicka which if you compare that to stamina is a difference of at least 1500 worth of stats.

7k weapon power? (Assuming that's what you mean by wp) is that even possible

AzuraKin · December 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.

Im talking about pvp btw

think the issue in pvp is that they are probably wearing a high proc weapon power build which can get them to 5-7k wp with 30k+ stamina.

example of that is magicka i believe caps at 4k sp 50k max magicka which if you compare that to stamina is a difference of at least 1500 worth of stats.

7k weapon power? (Assuming that's what you mean by wp) is that even possible

according to the players who brag about it, i dont have the gear, and my stam toons are currently testing a bow and crit based gear see how i liek them.

failkiwib16_ESO · December 2016

Dear OP if you have a bigger stamina pool than a magicka pool, you get stronger heals via Vigor than Restoration staff skills because:

Vigor scales with your Stamina pool and Weapon Damage
Restoration staff skills scale with your Magicka pool and Spell Damage

Have a nice day ^^

Biro123 · December 2016

Doesn't seem right that a heal that isn't class-based and doesn't need a specific weapon equipped to use can be stronger than one that does.. but then, when you look at shields vs dodge/block/high mitigatgion.. self heals do need to be different.

I just don't like that on the one side, you're confined to equipping a specific weapon. But then again, how many stam builds use 2-h purely for rally..?

idk · December 2016

Skcarkden wrote: »

The irony when a dedicated skill line is completely outclassed by a single ability from any other skill line.

@Skcarkden

It's no irony. He isn't saying rstaff is weaker than vigor/rally. Obviously it isn't.

Lol, just as obvious the rstaff doesn't perform at its best on a stam character.

If he is he's down right wrong.

Jimbullbee85 · December 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

I guess that's why you see so many stamina healers in dungeons

The OP is talking about the self heals of dps builds not healers in genteral which I'd wager a vast percentage are templars using breath of life.

incognito222 · December 2016

psychotic13 wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

If you are not templar or healer but using resto staff on back bar for self healing as a magicka dps, ability heals are so slow and small. Any stamina build with rally+vigor can outperform lame ass resto staff heals this is just another pathetic example that show how this game is broken.

Im talking about pvp btw

think the issue in pvp is that they are probably wearing a high proc weapon power build which can get them to 5-7k wp with 30k+ stamina.

example of that is magicka i believe caps at 4k sp 50k max magicka which if you compare that to stamina is a difference of at least 1500 worth of stats.

7k weapon power? (Assuming that's what you mean by wp) is that even possible

Friend on Stamina Templar has weapon power at around 7.5K fully buffed with top tier equipment.
Yes, its ridicilous but possible. Don't know what he's running as he wouldn't tell.

raj72616a · December 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

but you have range?

Tell that to mister bowtard or the spearspamming stamplars using deathray vision.

And as melee magblade I do not have range (and thus recently use firestaff a lot more)

non jabbing stampler and bow used as main bar arent really stam build, they are just "play how you want" builds and not stam dps/tank.

Sallington · December 2016

Healing Springs
Combat Prayer
Healing Ward
All 3 are great skills, 2 of which are mandatory in end game content.

Mutagen/Rapid Regen have a much large range than Vigor, balancing it out IMO.

Resto Staff has ranged heavy attack that returns ALOT of magicka.

Verdict: OP couldn't kill a stam user using vigor, didn't feeling like gitting gud, made pls nerf post.

Sallington · December 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

But, but you have more sustain.....

Oh wait we don't. We got less or same sustain, lower damage/burst, and now lower healing. And we have less defense if we want to enjoy our loin cloth armor.

but you have range?

Tell that to mister bowtard or the spearspamming stamplars using deathray vision.

And as melee magblade I do not have range (and thus recently use firestaff a lot more)

What you lack in range, you more that makeup for with mobility. Lotus Fan? Cloak? Blur (Magicka Shuffle w/ major expedition)? Infinite cloak on a magblade is one of the most ridiculous tools in any classes arsenal.

nordsavage · December 2016

Pretty sure you mean for PvP. Mag users have strong shields and heal on damage abilities.

NewBlacksmurf · December 2016

Considering the resto staff isn't really designed for self healing it makes perfect sense. I learned this at launch thinking I'd make a sorc and use a rejuvenate staff....it was ok but not really great cause you had to stop doing dmg.
It's also more of support for group play which is where it's awesome.

Also, it's why all classes have ways to support themselves if they don't want to be a magic healer.

leepalmer95 · December 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

But, but you have more sustain.....

Oh wait we don't. We got less or same sustain, lower damage/burst, and now lower healing. And we have less defense if we want to enjoy our loin cloth armor.

but you have range?

Tell that to mister bowtard or the spearspamming stamplars using deathray vision.

And as melee magblade I do not have range (and thus recently use firestaff a lot more)

What you lack in range, you more that makeup for with mobility. Lotus Fan? Cloak? Blur (Magicka Shuffle w/ major expedition)? Infinite cloak on a magblade is one of the most ridiculous tools in any classes arsenal.

A magicka melee nb doesn't have mobility.

Literally any snare in the game ends all it's mobility.

Cloak hasn't been relevant for a while since everything breaks it and everything has a counter to it.

WalksonGraves · December 2016

Same great design that made warriors the top magic dps and ninjas the best tanks. fml.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

For a DK (2H), stam-based vigor or rally is better healing than majicka-based coagulating blood.. that I know for sure.

SwaminoNowlino · December 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

But, but you have more sustain.....

Oh wait we don't. We got less or same sustain, lower damage/burst, and now lower healing. And we have less defense if we want to enjoy our loin cloth armor.

but you have range?

Tell that to mister bowtard or the spearspamming stamplars using deathray vision.

And as melee magblade I do not have range (and thus recently use firestaff a lot more)

What you lack in range, you more that makeup for with mobility. Lotus Fan? Cloak? Blur (Magicka Shuffle w/ major expedition)? Infinite cloak on a magblade is one of the most ridiculous tools in any classes arsenal.

shields

Plus what sane person is using a melee magicka nightblade for serious content?

Jamini · December 2016

Stamina Healing:

Vigor - Reasonably powerful AoE HoT centered on caster. Strong, but kind of expensive.
Rally - Strong self-only Hot that grants major brutality. Crucial for any stamina build that lacks a source of major brutality.
Power Extraction - Nightblade draining stamina attack. Major Brutality
Dark Deal (MAgicka Skill for Stamina Characters) - Trade Magicka for health+ Stamina.

Magicka Healing:

Restoration Staff:
Healing Springs - Powerful AoE HoT, targeted on the ground up to 28m. Cheap and refunds mag for each target hit
Mutagen - Moderate smartcast HoT, with a burst heal at low health.
Combat Prayer - Small burst heal and source of Minor Berserk, Minor ward, Minor Resolve. Must have on high-end content.
Healing Ward - Smartcast shield that heals the target for damage not absorbed at the end of its cast. Must have for high-end content.
Panacea - AoE healing ultimate. Often overkill. Highly improbable to be slotted by a Stam toon.

Templar Healing:
Restoring Light:
Remembrance - Powerful AoE healing ultimate. 0-100's most healthbars on non-dead allies
Breath of Life - Powerful smartcast Single-target healing that is notorious for completely healing allies who are nearly dead.
Repentance - Powerful healing and resource restoration for all allies based on nearbly dead corpses.
Extended Ritual - A cleanse with a cleansing synergy and a small hot.
Luminous Shards - Resource management ability.

Dragonknight Healing:

Igneous Shield - Potent team shield that applies major mending to the caster. Scales with health and magicka.
Burning Embers - Powerful DoT that heals the caster for damage dealt. Often restores over 80% of my health on my MagDK. Spammable in fights against multiple targets.
Coagulated Blood - Sub-average, but instant, self-heal and Major Fortitude/Minor Vitality to caster. Scales with caster health.
Draw Essence - Powerful AoE that heals the caster and restores magicka on the second hit.

Sorcerer Healing

Dark Conversion (Stamina Skill for Magicka Characters) - Trade stamina for health+ Magicka.
Unstable Clannfear - Use while Clanfear is summoned to restore 35% of caster's max health
Summon Twilight Matriarch - Use while Twilight Matriarch is summoned to cast a powerful smartcast heal.

Nightblade Healing:

Refreshing Path - Moderate HoT and Major Expedition to group. Long duration for a heal.
Soul Siphon - MAssive burst heal to allies in 15m (wonky in large groups), Major Vitality, healing synergy. Unpopular as it replaces an AoE stunning ultimate. Other morph still has the healing synergy (soul leech)
Funnel Health/ Swallow Soul - Smallish lifesteal attack that heals you for a reasonable amount or you and an ally. Very spammable.
Siphoning Strikes (and morphs) - Toggle or buff that grants you life and resource stealing attacks
Sap Essence - Major Brutality, Major Sorcery. Heals caster for damage dealt.

Mage Guild
Entropy - Small self-heal and damage boost.

Undaunted
Mystic Orb - MAgicka-based resource management (mag)
Energy Orb - Magicka based healing skill

Werewolf
Hircine's Bounty - MAg-based Self-heal (Really only viable on stam users)

Vampire
Drain Essence - Lifesteal attack for vampires

---

If you like BASIC healing, stamina healing is possible. However, Mag has TONs of tools for healing outside of the handful that stamina have.

templesus · December 2016

Enslaved wrote: »

mDK can self heal trough skills that kill enemies in the process. If that is not superior in your book, please, kill them by spamming vigor. Or spam rally. All will die of laughter, I'm sure.

You forgot GDB that works wonders in pvp

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2016

I'm sorry but Vigor is OP. On a Stam DK it's absurd how much you can get it to tick for. Magic users should have better healing at the expense of damage, and stamina users should have higher damage output at the expense of survivability/healing.

"What we have today is everyone can be a house, and when everyone can be a house it just comes down to numbers"- Fengrush

Wreuntzylla · December 2016

The problem with vigor is that it breaks ZoS' general PvP philosophy that defense and pressure should be separated.

With vigor, a vitality pot, points into crit damage CP and some points into healing received CP, I can hit 5k ticks in PvP. If I add rally I am tougher to kill than any non-tank spec magicka toon.

There is a very simple solution here. Scrap echoing vigor and make it a magicka version of resolving vigor.

teladoy · December 2016

Long time ago I wrote a post saying that stamina builds not only perform the most hard damage, they have also the better heals for pvp and also they can roll and evade skills or break free.

This game is broken and that's why everybody plays the tipic stamina build with viper set and etc.

Jamini · December 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The problem with vigor is that it breaks ZoS' general PvP philosophy that defense and pressure should be separated.

With vigor, a vitality pot, points into crit damage CP and some points into healing received CP, I can hit 5k ticks in PvP. If I add rally I am tougher to kill than any non-tank spec magicka toon.

There is a very simple solution here. Scrap echoing vigor and make it a magicka version of resolving vigor.

You have raw healing and damage, yes. You lack a lot of utility magicka builds have, however. You also lack good shields unless you are a DK.

Ihatenightblades · December 2016

There is only about 3 balance problems ln this game.

Poisons
Eye of storm
Fassala

Those 3 right there can ruin the game over time if it doesnt get fixed

Maybe not fassala but poisons ( drain poisons ) and eye of storm ( destro ult ) need to go

WhiteMage · December 2016

I know a guy, stamplar, who gets 6k hps with rally and vigor ticking (~2k and ~4k, respectively). This makes him very tanky, but he still puts out a very solid amount of damage. The difference between my magplar is, I could probably put out that same healing on a target by spamming BoL, maybe even a bit higher and at range, but I would not be putting out any damage during this and I would run out of resources in less than 10 seconds. He will not run out of resources doing this; that's how HoTs work. The healing capability cap is lower than burst heals, but they cost significantly less resources per heal AND do not prevent other action for most of the healing time. Do not underestimate the power of HoTs.

These numbers are approximate and are in a no-CP environment (Azura's Star).