Why are all factions holding hands?

deevoh1991 · December 2016

Each faction is made to look like *** in some of the long ass quests in other factions.
For eg, Im AD and DF was made to look like scum
When I dinished AD and moved to Deshaan or somewhere AD were treated like *** as if we were some skin stealing cult. I was like wtf

MAOofDC · December 2016

Deevo191 wrote: »

Each faction is made to look like *** in some of the long ass quests in other factions.
For eg, Im AD and DF was made to look like scum
When I dinished AD and moved to Deshaan or somewhere AD were treated like *** as if we were some skin stealing cult. I was like wtf

Show me an example of open warfare without atrocities committed by both sides and you'll be showing me a fantasy. Demonizing the enemy makes killing him SO MUCH easier it's just human nature.

I think this exchange between Davos Seasworth and his son from A Game of thrones sums it up fairly well.

Matthos Seasworth: God. Father, there is only one and he watches over us.
Davos Seasworth: But not over them?
Matthos Seasworth: Over all of us. The people of King's Landing did not choose the false King Joffrey Baratheon. They will be glad to see his head on a spike.
Davos Seasworth: Well, first we have to put it there.
Matthos Seasworth: Our ships outnumber theirs ten to one. Our army outnumber theirs five to one.
Davos Seasworth: Those walls have never been breached. And the men guarding the walls, when they see you, they don't see a liberator. They see a stranger come to set their city on fire.

corrosivechains · December 2016

I don't think the whole world should be a faction based pvp "free-for-all" for obvious reasons. That said though the major billing of this game was a 3 way war where you could become the Emperor of Tamriel should you be able to hold onto the position. To say PvP was something that was just tacked on is objectively false, and completely ignores where a lot of the team working on this game came from, DAoC.

I really wish though the devs stuck to their guns on the Justice system. There should be consequences to being a thief or an assassin, and being able to deal with it in a PvP way would open up so many more gameplay options for everyone. We'd have incentives for players to be mercenaries and bounty hunters, or vigilantes and justice seekers. On both sides of the coin, earning a name for yourself would paint a target on your back, while just being a regular pve player would net no real changes.

But then again ZoS should have also included the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood into the base game, again like they expressed they were going to do before launch, instead of packaging them behind a paywall and necessitating the removal of the justice system because of "I paid my $20 for this content" argument.

threefarms · December 2016

The war is pointless, the empire takes back over anyway.

Blackfyre20 · December 2016

It's over and done with, wait for Camelot Unchained for a game where RvRvR actually means something. This game was initially sold as a large scale three faction PVP game with PVE included, contrary to popular belief around here. You wouldn't believe that looking at the game now. You have threads of PVEers asking for PVP to be removed altogether as if it has always been an insignificant part of the game. PVE is where the money is though and that is the top priority obviously.

Aisle9 · December 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Cencewolf wrote: »

Because ppl are whiny little safe space loving nubs,. And dont call them that you might hurt feelings. 8(

Or perhaps that every open world PvP game is crap that dies a slow, painful death.

Oh... ok.

18 Years Later, Why Are People Still Playing Ultima Online?

Keep telling yourself that, mate.

Want to call them nubs ? want to call them carebears ? want to call them snowflakes ? want to call them Hardcore RPers ?

Call them what you want, fact is there is a large population coming from Single Player TES games, thinking this is a TES game, just because has "Elder Scroll" in the name. For them, the concept of fighting against other players was alien, and still, kind of is.

Personally, I like the idea, I've played in open world PvP games, some of them (*cough* UO *cough) are still alive and well, despite the old age, and I've had a lot of fun.

There is one issue with Open World PvP games, though. There is also a pretty large population of old gamers, the Sons of the 80s, that, sadly, now, have much more responsibilities , like, jobs, family, and such, which translates into less time for games. As for every other thing in life, the only way to Git Gud is to practice, if you don't have time for it, well, you end up picking flowers to sell like that homeless kid in Windhelm that you can invite to your van, home, whatever, not strange at all...

Point is, folks at ZoS like money, like, pretty much everybody else, and they will lose customers if people could just kill each other in the streets, as there's a large chunk of the population openly adverse to PvP. Losing customers means less monies, so, here, have a crown crate instead.

Personally ? I wouldn't want to see it, not because it's not a good idea, but because the game doesn't allow for it in a way that would be enjoyable. There are way too many cheese mechanics and exploitable skills, so, it would only be a ragefest.

Would I want to see it if there was an ideal situation in which the classes were balanced, there were no proc sets or, at least, they weren't 100% chance 10k proc from LA, and roots/snares couldn't be exploited ?

Hell yeah, I've played one for years and it was awesome. At first I got mercilessly and brutally ganked, lost a lot of money and gear along the way, and thought, like many others "why is that guy killing me, what have I done to him, there's no place for PvP in this game!!!", but the first time I got to chase the guy from my hard earned loot ? It was glorious.
And my first kill gave me a taste for blood, now I always dip into that bitter sweet jar that is PvP.

Galwylin · December 2016

PvP would be a lot more fun if you lost, your character was instantly deleted with the name useable again. That would help PvP a great deal.

Btw, WoW is set up with servers completely PvP and servers PvE with some areas PvP. Its still those PvE servers that maintain the population. A good bit of PvP happens on them but the attraction is its a choice. Not a gankfest area you level in.

Cencewolf · December 2016

Lol, one more (upstanding intelligent person) Using WOW as a guideline for how ESO should be

If i wanted to play wow i would,

I dont so *** off with it.

ScooberSteve · December 2016

I thinks its because where grown adults and know its a game.

DragonBound · December 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Or perhaps that every open world PvP game is crap that dies a slow, painful death.

Isn't that the truth.

And the reason why? There just isn't a sustainably large enough demographic for it. Most PvP players would (understandably) prefer to play hero shooters, MOBAs, and the like. The amount of people who want to PvP in an MMO is infinitesimal compared to those who don't. This is why so many sandbox PvP MMOs have been spectacular failures.

It's not fun being in a small demographic, but part of that is that you have to accept that in a capitalist world, what you get is related to the particular size of your demographic. I mean, because I'm a transhumanist, I liked the ending of Mass Effect 3. What I don't expect though is for Mass Effect: Andromeda to kowtow to my desires simply because I have them. It's self-absorbed, almost solipsistic silliness. It goes beyond mere selfishness.

There are those that would want to see a game devour itself alive in a singularity, dragging it in a rapid downward spiral into the void, just so that they can have a month or two of something they like. As I keep harping on about -- and I am sorry for this, but it's a very pertinent point, and deserves to be belaboured -- this was the downfall of Champions Online. Their businesspeople (for whatever misguided reason) listened to a tiny minority. Now that game is on life-support, it's as good as dead.

The bad part is that some people involved in the creation of MMOs are equally outdated, out of touch, and unable to comprehend what the MMO-playing audience are looking for, today. And when these people listen to minorities, and then leverage their position to make the game more like a minority wants? It hurts the game.

So not only has every PvP MMO flopped, every MMO that's focused more on PvP and hardcore players has flopped. Look at Wildstar, it was at death's door for quite some time. I haven't kept up with it, but usually if an MMO isn't on life-support, I'll hear news about it somewhere (like I do with ESO). WIldstar, unfortunately, does seem to be on life-support right now. Why? They built an MMO targeted at the hardcore audience. And it flopped.

I know it's cool to go with the flow, toe the party line, and adopt the groupthink. Everyone loves that, it's an extremely extraverted world after all, et cetera, et cetera. I get that. The thing is? I'm a passionate, free-thinking, observant individual. And sometimes I like things. Often, I'll see them get dragged down by this sort of thing, which does leave me feeling bitter. Why wouldn't it? Every now and then, something I like has a sustainable demographic, which is wonderful and I want to do all I can to support it. However, all too often, I've found others descending upon it like parasites, looking to induce its death so that they can pick whatever bits of pleasure they derive clean from the carcass, only to leave that rotting mess for the rest of us.

It's disappointing. So I do tend to talk about this.

Open world PvP doesn't exist in this game because PvP players are too few to substantiate it. I'm sorry. It isn't sound, it would be bad business sense. They gave you duelling, isn't that enough? And even that served only to alienate and drive something of a wedge between ZOS and their primary demographics. You have to accept things that are relevant to the size of your demographic. Instead of being parasitic and feeding off of things that aren't, to the detriment of whatever it is you're feeding off of. There are hero shooters, MOBAs, and many other games suitable to your demographic size. Why are you trying to sabotage this game?

It isn't about 'nubs,' or 'safe spaces,' or 'carebears,' or whatever other derogatory titles this tiny minority has for everyone else. It's simply that PvP players are a tiny minority. I'm sorry. That's all there is.

If this matters so much to you, gather up all of the PvP players under a banner, find one game to support and give unto that game all of your money, time, and effort. Then you might have what you seek. Sabotaging a game like ESO though just so you can have what you want, and to the detriment of the game, no less?

That's not cool. Stop it.

Footnote: Not just that, but when most people want to PvP, they want it to be in a fun and casual setting. They'll prefer Overwatch or Mario Kart. This kind of hardcore thing (that infests PvE and PvP) is just... not something most people want. When the majority play a game, it isn't to get stressed out and have high blood pressure. It's to have fun. No amount of loudness from a minority of people who want to be stressed out, who want to troll, grief, and 'destroy their opponents' will actually change that.

You have Cyrodiil, and you have duelling. Stop being greedy. It's really unbecoming.

I think your kind of off here, plenty of mmorpgs existed for many years because of target audiences like dark ages of Camelot which was a pvp centered mmorpg and it is getting a reboot, as everquest 1 is still around for being a pve mmorpg.

DragonBound · December 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that even the devs have said that it's not an MMO, it's an online RPG - which suits me just fine, but if you are expecting MMO then this may not turn out to be the game you are looking for.

How is this not an mmorpg? I am so confused because this if anything seems like a true mmorpg to me.

Cencewolf · December 2016

{CosmicSoul} wrote:

How is this not an mmorpg? I am so confused because this if anything seems like a true mmorpg to me.

its not really a MMORPG in any traditional sense.. It fits the acrynom, (its massive, its multiplayer, its online and you can roleplay in the game...) but it plays more like a First player shooter.

currently everything is "scaled" so really, level 3 or champion point 160 are.. About the same in "ability". There is a incentive to grind the remainder of your 561 champion points for the percentile based incentives that could help you get through something like Maelstrom but that's about it. Tradeskills take about 6 mins and 30 seconds to max out, and all sense of accomplishment from something like "character advancement" is destroyed. (the big thing that has traditionally defined a MMORPG is "why" we play it... In a traditional platformer we play to conclude a story whereas a traditional MMORPG we play to see our character individually advance. something you cant really get from ESO anymore.

So is it a MMORPG, yes, but a poor one,
Is it a platformer? Yeah! Hell we play it on platforms, but again, a mediocre one after T1
Its really much more of a FPS, (spawn a cookie-cutter character, run it into a battle, eventually die, spawn back, rinse and repeat)

Hope this helps.

Elladan_Eloheimik · December 2016

nexxus_ESO wrote: »

Ask for your own NA-PVP, EU-PVP servers already! I'm sure there are plenty of PVE people who would happily advocate for it on your behalf to help make it a reality.

Duh....we have it already. It's called Cyrodiil and Imperial City. shesh.

DocFrost72 · December 2016

My characters all have reasons not to be openly hostile. The war is in cyrodiil, as apparently controlling that is how you win for arbitrary reasons each alliance leader has in their respective minds. The rest of Tamriel (a good half to three quarters, I'd guess) is pretty much running business as usual.

One bosmer came to Daggerfall to avoid religious execution for violating the green pact. Another to escape the results of a Dominion military operation gone wrong and blamed on her. One Breton has been a captive in Oblivion (Moonshadow, not Coldharbour) since 2E 533, and hasn't aged. He could give a rat's arse about the war. Or my plane walking Dremora (hugely simplifying his backstory, but whatever)? Why would he care?

I'd be willing to guess that, much like our world, the denizens of Tamriel range from gung *** war supporters to anti war demonstrators, and every gradient in between.

And of course why would any new player play the game of they got spawn camped? Lol

wolfydog · December 2016

The 3 factions was one of the dumbest things in the game at launch. People don't play Elder Scrolls for PVP and its been annoying how every MMO has to shoehorn PVP in somehow.

ESO would have been better off having One Tamriel style at launch with PVP on the side. Maybe guild wars style or just do battlegrounds. Or make a second copy of cyrodil thats like how it is now and make other in game factions that have noething to do with your chosen races.

Rohaus · December 2016

I am a PvPer... any game that does not have PvP, I simply will not play it.

That being said, open world PvP, in my experience, was always bad... the only time it is good is when the MMO first releases and everyone is a noob and doesn't have good gear.

AoC and WoW both were amazing in the beginning of the games history for open world PvP. But it only takes a couple months and people are max level and are running with good gear... thus the end of fun and fair open world PvP.

If there were no bad apples, then open world PvP could be legit... but all it takes is a few bad apples and the fun goes out the door.

I am much more a proponent of having areas that are PvP centric. When you go to Cyrodiil, you had better expect to die.

Cyrodiil was amazing in the beginning... big huge fights with zero lag... was so much fun... then the organized zergs arrived with their spamming of AOE's and all went to hell at that point.

IC is the last remaining PvP place for me... much better potential for smaller fights... zergs still show up but they get bored quickly and move on.

Bryanonymous · December 2016

The game fits the description Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. It's just not WoW, thank the Divines.

CapnPhoton · December 2016

I don't want you to hold my hand...

However, I do like hanging out in Daggerfall sometimes, thanks.

But, the only reason to hold an Ebonheart's hand is if your about to yank their arm out of it's socket

SteelStallion · December 2016

because pvp sucks and it's not fun to play "who's playing the best pvp build that he googled off the internet?"

but apparently not liking pvp means you're a snowflake cry baby *** who needs a "safe space", it's unfathomable to these thickheaded *** that maybe people don't enjoy exploring the world while getting ganked by some teabagging autist who has nothing better to do than show off how great he is at following pvp guides.

If you want a PVP centric MMO it needs to be designed that way from the ground up, and it needs to be done well because issues of balance are much more important. ESO is simply not that, nor would it be enjoyable to force it to be that.

Jamini · December 2016

But it only takes a couple months and people are max level and are running with good gear...

The term you are looking for is "Power Creep". Sadly, many games today, even in the beginning, have pretty severe indications of it. I miss the games where gear was only 33% or so of your effectiveness, and the rest was skill. (Psst. ESO was never like that, as far as I can tell. Gear has always had an out-sized impact in this game. Like most modern MMOs)

Oh well. Times change.

/me equips his PvP proc set and starts playing a lute on the bridge to lure in nightblades.

unchainedzulu · December 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

wow, this is an incredible idea!

i wonder if ZOS would open up One Tamriel PVP on another server and leave cyrodiil as just PVE

The same as we had a NA and an EU server that has been linked, perhaps we can have the alternate reality...

edit: continued reading, apparently i wasn't the only one with this idea... *goes back to day job*

nexxus_ESO · December 2016

Elladan_Eloheimik wrote: »

nexxus_ESO wrote: »

Ask for your own NA-PVP, EU-PVP servers already! I'm sure there are plenty of PVE people who would happily advocate for it on your behalf to help make it a reality.

Duh....we have it already. It's called Cyrodiil and Imperial City. shesh.

You totally didn't read the entire thread.
Or for context...
Or meaning...

Cyro and IC are on the same NA server as everything else...
You know what, F**** it. I'm not explaining it.

MattT1988 · December 2016

MajinCry wrote: »

What I expected from the whole Alliance War thing, was that once you entered a campaign, you get taken to a shell of Tamriel; access to all the zones, but with the villages, outposts, towers and cities being set up as capturable locations. Exactly like Cyrodiil's alliance buildings, but on a grander scale.

But, no, we've just got the one zone to do open PvP in, and it's the same once since beta.

Well that's your own fault for not doing your research before buying the game. We all knew going in that the PvP would be restricted to one zone. They made it pretty damn clear. No one to blame but yourself there.

RebornV3x · December 2016

At this point your character isn't tied to one alliance he's more of a mercenary I wish factions had perks for joining them so it would make since at this point your fighting for the highest bidder or for certain perks. Kinda like Elite Dangerous where if your with a faction and fight for them you get special gear and more gold would be pretty cool.

Agalloch · December 2016

Remember one thing: ESO was advertised as a PVP MMORPG.

Actually at launch ..PVP was epic, massive ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeMROJhXSY

I miss old days ...We had many promises ..like an advanced justice system : https://elderscrollsonline.info/justice-system

All is now vaporware ...

Of course, the actual team of Zenimax is not the same team who launched the game .many left from ZOS ..so many things are cancelled ...like the finalization of the Justice System..but I hope ...not definitive.

I know ZOS is a team ( still) with creative people. I hope sometime they will put again on the table the exciting things they cancelled or postponed ...like other forms of PVP besides duels and Cyrodiil.

English is not my native language.

Kram8ion · December 2016

It disturbs me a little when I see factions canoodling on my campaign so I just turn around and venture elsewhere thinking to myself that they are probably ERPing anyway