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Before you NERF the Destro Ult!
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WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭You seem to think the game is a trash clearing simulator. The real content is dungeons and raids. There's a reason most pvpers only do it long enough to unlock skills and quit.0 -
WikileaksEU✭✭✭Maybe you need to include damage shields and heals in your builds? A NB or stamian sorc can kill faster than a magicka user with destro staff.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You seem to think the game is a trash clearing simulator. The real content is dungeons and raids. There's a reason most pvpers only do it long enough to unlock skills and quit.
Yeah it's boring...0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Every dungeon in this game expect for the DLC dungeons are incredible easy.For the overland content and some dungeons the game pretty much is trash clearing simulator.WalksonGraves wrote: »You seem to think the game is a trash clearing simulator. The real content is dungeons and raids. There's a reason most pvpers only do it long enough to unlock skills and quit.
The 1% of content which so happens to be Vet trials,DLC dungeons,VMA and PVP less than 1% of the content.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalksonGraves wrote: »You seem to think the game is a trash clearing simulator. The real content is dungeons and raids. There's a reason most pvpers only do it long enough to unlock skills and quit.
Yeah because most pvper's have literally done everything apart from vet MoL in pve.
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
Also 95% of all dungeon and trash clearing. Pve is so easy and boring.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭WikileaksEU wrote: »Maybe you need to include damage shields and heals in your builds? A NB or stamian sorc can kill faster than a magicka user with destro staff.
Yeah, they can kill one person really fast. As opposed to 2-3 Destro ults killing 8-10 consistently. Destro ult wins large medium scale fights -- viper/tremor do not.
"OH BUH MAN DUH STAMSORC KILLD ME WIT PROC PLZ NERF"
Unless you're trying to solo 1vX, there's no good reason to run a proc build over 2h(orDw) & Destro -- even as a stam char.3 -
WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't get it, is it for that 1 in 1000 chance of emperor costume? Like once you get the pvp set you want what is the point.
If I wanted to pvp I'd play a game designed for it, not this laggy zerg fest. Pvp is a herd simulator, individual build is almost meaningless. Even imperial city is just pve with griefing.1 -
Actually_Goku✭✭✭✭Not a bad suggestion, but I'd say it should be an additional part of the fix, not a substitute. I think an overwhelming majority of ESO players would agree that the Destro ult is OP as hell. Which is why everyone is using it.
Once this gets a nerf, and proc sets are gone, this game will be AH-mazing!0 -
Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭aidenmoore wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »aidenmoore wrote: »The issue is not the damage? Are you serious? People who are mainly spec to maximize EoTS damage is deadly. You can argue that he squishy and everything while the truth is these kind of people who maximize EoTS damage build will 100% run in zerg.
Their damage can proc up to 10k+ per tick and for those that run around 20k+ health, that's 2 or 3 tick before you die and with the Cyrodiil being lag and all, you cannot properly respond to that. All you can see is your dead corpse. EoTS is not fun. Zerg V Zerg is now all about who bring more EoTS.
"Simply roll dodge" is not suffice and only counter considering how bad the Cyrodiil lag as of late.
By that logic you're going to have to nerf all damage in the game, 20k hp is a minimum amount of course you are squishy. Ult has to be generated, 10k/sec is not op when 2 proc sets net you that much just as bonus damage.
Name me 1 skill that deal 10,000+ damage that is not blockable.
Soulstrike!
.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Has there ever, once, been a time where we did not have Call For Nerf threads active on the forum where the core basis was:
An organized and coordinated zerg can mass this power and wipe others out
Seems to me one of the more recent was radiant zergs but not sure that was the last.
Seems tonme its often aoe but not always.
Seems to me within three days of zos making destro ult do 1 hp every 5 sec for 5 sec and be blockable there will be a new "abused by zerg, please nerf" thread with just a different ability used.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."2 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭You say this like there was some announcement with zos saying it was getting nerfed. Did I miss something? People on this forum have a problem passing off opinions as facts, and also speaking for other people.
Again if I missed something where zos said they were nerfing it, my bad I apologize. But I don't think that's the case.
When they find a way to seperate pvp from pve, then I could maybe get behind certain nerfs. Why not play the game as it comes?
Seems most of these people complaints are mainly due to lag. Seems like if we are nerfing because lag then we are doing it all wrong.2 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
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Like I don't understand why someone play a game like this for single player Content.If I wanted that I'll play a Single player RPG I'll play mass effect or Skyrim.All the zones are life less and barely anyone their.The content is so boring and easy I don't know how anyone enjoy it.WalksonGraves wrote: »I don't get it, is it for that 1 in 1000 chance of emperor costume? Like once you get the pvp set you want what is the point.
If I wanted to pvp I'd play a game designed for it, not this laggy zerg fest. Pvp is a herd simulator, individual build is almost meaningless. Even imperial city is just pve with griefing.1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the destro ult is fine. The problem is that players are slow to adapt. This reminds me of the Vicious Death learning curve.
Players need to not only anticipate the ult, but the CC that comes with it and have a plan. The rare time I PVP, I run in a group that does this, and it's NP at all.
As the game currently exists, I think this ult is a necessary counter to tanky raids.
Edited by zyk on December 4, 2016 7:06PM0 -
aidenmoore✭✭✭✭aidenmoore wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »aidenmoore wrote: »The issue is not the damage? Are you serious? People who are mainly spec to maximize EoTS damage is deadly. You can argue that he squishy and everything while the truth is these kind of people who maximize EoTS damage build will 100% run in zerg.
Their damage can proc up to 10k+ per tick and for those that run around 20k+ health, that's 2 or 3 tick before you die and with the Cyrodiil being lag and all, you cannot properly respond to that. All you can see is your dead corpse. EoTS is not fun. Zerg V Zerg is now all about who bring more EoTS.
"Simply roll dodge" is not suffice and only counter considering how bad the Cyrodiil lag as of late.
By that logic you're going to have to nerf all damage in the game, 20k hp is a minimum amount of course you are squishy. Ult has to be generated, 10k/sec is not op when 2 proc sets net you that much just as bonus damage.
Name me 1 skill that deal 10,000+ damage that is not blockable.
Soulstrike!
Bloackable.0 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wait. Wasn't all the PTS ultimate talk that the destro ultimate sucked compared to other Ultimates?2 -
Julianos✭✭✭✭✭Lol people say its 10k per tick its a misleading statement 10k is the tooltip damage actualy it hits 3-4k per tick in cyrodiil im always using it and most of the time enemy zerg disperse and survive only when if you catch your enemy zerg in a choke point and off guard it kills them but still proxy det deals more damage for tight groups vd too lets nerf everything. Stop QQ also its 250 ultimate its not possible to use frequenlty also if you guys die on just 1 eye of storm this means either you are too squishy or your healers sucks otherwise 1 eye of storm cant kill anyone who knows how to play avarage... Also i was calling nerfs for this ulti and tried myself its really not the ulti its totally lag and invisible ulti animation that kills you.Edited by Julianos on December 4, 2016 9:53PM1
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭aidenmoore wrote: »aidenmoore wrote: »WalksonGraves wrote: »aidenmoore wrote: »The issue is not the damage? Are you serious? People who are mainly spec to maximize EoTS damage is deadly. You can argue that he squishy and everything while the truth is these kind of people who maximize EoTS damage build will 100% run in zerg.
Their damage can proc up to 10k+ per tick and for those that run around 20k+ health, that's 2 or 3 tick before you die and with the Cyrodiil being lag and all, you cannot properly respond to that. All you can see is your dead corpse. EoTS is not fun. Zerg V Zerg is now all about who bring more EoTS.
"Simply roll dodge" is not suffice and only counter considering how bad the Cyrodiil lag as of late.
By that logic you're going to have to nerf all damage in the game, 20k hp is a minimum amount of course you are squishy. Ult has to be generated, 10k/sec is not op when 2 proc sets net you that much just as bonus damage.
Name me 1 skill that deal 10,000+ damage that is not blockable.
Soulstrike!
Bloackable.
Sorc cursePS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Stratforge✭✭✭✭Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »On PS4 it lasted about 2 months. That was the time we Destro users had to enjoy our new Ultimate before the META Sheep saw a build on a youtube video or something and now 50% of Cyrodil is carrying a Destro, the other 50% is whining about them.
The issue may not be the damage, a staff should be a powerful weapon. (at least as powerful as being poked by a dagger and having Viper proc and that thing come out of the ground, or whatever else procs are stacked by the stam users)
FIX VISIBILITY- You can't see it well enough when your in it, and if Cyrodil is laggy your hit for 3 seconds until you see your health bar dropping. You can see it fine when your far away looking at it, but when your in the middle? I'm taking 4-5K damage a second in the middle of a fire storm, my screen should be flashing red. Most of the time the only way you know your in it is if someone from the outside calls it out. In other words, we need to see it quicker.
Another thought, and I know you do this with some other abilities. Would be to have the damage build, so it's hitting harder in the end than the beginning. That would help with the visibility or lag issues.
Again, I think if it was easier to recognize there wouldn't be so many people calling for a nerf. It just feels undefendable when you can't even see it half the time.
You make a good point about the visibility and I agree that's a huge problem. That being said, even if it were 100% visible all the time it's still too strong. The damage is just too high. There's no way around that.PC NA
Xbox One NA (retired)0 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the destro ult is fine. The problem is that players are slow to adapt. This reminds me of the Vicious Death learning curve.
Players need to not only anticipate the ult, but the CC that comes with it and have a plan. The rare time I PVP, I run in a group that does this, and it's NP at all.
As the game currently exists, I think this ult is a necessary counter to tanky raids.
The problem I have with destro ult, is that those "tanky raids" can also use it to great effect. When AD was faction stacking for their emp defense, there was a point where probably most of AD and DC were at Roebeck. Due to the lag and the insane number of templars in the particular guild raid, they would push out as a blob and run over masses of DC and any time one of them got damaged... a BoL/purge would pretty much instantly fix it. With the lag there was basically no way to chain enough damage to kill any of them, then with the ult gen on player kill, they could keep up quite a damaging train of destro ults.
This is partly a L2 GET THE **** OUT OF THE WAY problem for DC, but it also highlights how a large group/zerg can capitalize on lag+destro ult and clear absurd numbers of enemy players by walking in a line and being tanky.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
False. Raiding requires in depth knowledge, performance optimization, stable and reliable execution/performance, experience with the raid, patience, stamina and commitment. Many of these attributes are not present in PvP and not every good PvPer is automatically good at PvE. Just like every good PvEers isn't automatically good at PvP. Goes both ways. Very few of the good PvPers have done vMoL HM. They all say they could if they had a good group or could be bothered. But that's just meaningless talk. The difference between PvE and PvP right now is that PvE has leaderboards so it is easy to see who is really good. In PvP everyone can claim to be good and it will always be a subjective matter depending on who you ask.
I usually agree with your posts here on forums but that was just a supid PvP-biased comment that isn't substantiated by any empirical data or knowledge.1 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
PvP has leaderboards.Tbh I don't anyone who is considered a good pvper who is a bad pver.I do know by percentage more PVP players have completed VMA than PVE players.You have to be good at PVE or at least competent to complete VMA.By a whole more pure or people who enjoy PVP more than PVE in this game has completed it than PVErs.leepalmer95 wrote: »
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
False. Raiding requires in depth knowledge, performance optimization, stable and reliable execution/performance, experience with the raid, patience, stamina and commitment. Many of these attributes are not present in PvP and not every good PvPer is automatically good at PvE. Just like every good PvEers isn't automatically good at PvP. Goes both ways. Very few of the good PvPers have done vMoL HM. They all say they could if they had a good group or could be bothered. But that's just meaningless talk. The difference between PvE and PvP right now is that PvE has leaderboards so it is easy to see who is really good. In PvP everyone can claim to be good and it will always be a subjective matter depending on who you ask.
I usually agree with your posts here on forums but that was just a supid PvP-biased comment that isn't substantiated by any empirical data or knowledge.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
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PvP has leaderboards.Tbh I don't anyone who is considered a good pvper who is a bad pver.I do know by percentage more PVP players have completed VMA than PVE players.You have to be good at PVE or at least competent to complete VMA.By a whole more pure or people who enjoy PVP more than PVE in this game has completed it than PVErs.leepalmer95 wrote: »
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
False. Raiding requires in depth knowledge, performance optimization, stable and reliable execution/performance, experience with the raid, patience, stamina and commitment. Many of these attributes are not present in PvP and not every good PvPer is automatically good at PvE. Just like every good PvEers isn't automatically good at PvP. Goes both ways. Very few of the good PvPers have done vMoL HM. They all say they could if they had a good group or could be bothered. But that's just meaningless talk. The difference between PvE and PvP right now is that PvE has leaderboards so it is easy to see who is really good. In PvP everyone can claim to be good and it will always be a subjective matter depending on who you ask.
I usually agree with your posts here on forums but that was just a supid PvP-biased comment that isn't substantiated by any empirical data or knowledge.
Lol @ pvp leaderboards. A true test of might they are!0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭
PvP has leaderboards.Tbh I don't anyone who is considered a good pvper who is a bad pver.I do know by percentage more PVP players have completed VMA than PVE players.You have to be good at PVE or at least competent to complete VMA.By a whole more pure or people who enjoy PVP more than PVE in this game has completed it than PVErs.leepalmer95 wrote: »
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
False. Raiding requires in depth knowledge, performance optimization, stable and reliable execution/performance, experience with the raid, patience, stamina and commitment. Many of these attributes are not present in PvP and not every good PvPer is automatically good at PvE. Just like every good PvEers isn't automatically good at PvP. Goes both ways. Very few of the good PvPers have done vMoL HM. They all say they could if they had a good group or could be bothered. But that's just meaningless talk. The difference between PvE and PvP right now is that PvE has leaderboards so it is easy to see who is really good. In PvP everyone can claim to be good and it will always be a subjective matter depending on who you ask.
I usually agree with your posts here on forums but that was just a supid PvP-biased comment that isn't substantiated by any empirical data or knowledge.
Where can I see these stats? I remember someone from zos posting certain stats not long ago, not sure it had anything as detailed as what you are saying though.Edited by alexkdd99 on December 5, 2016 1:28AM0 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hey am just saying PVP has leaderboards for the campaign. you said the difference between the two was leaderboards and I told you that PVP has leaderboards as well which is a fact.brandonv516 wrote: »
PvP has leaderboards.Tbh I don't anyone who is considered a good pvper who is a bad pver.I do know by percentage more PVP players have completed VMA than PVE players.You have to be good at PVE or at least competent to complete VMA.By a whole more pure or people who enjoy PVP more than PVE in this game has completed it than PVErs.leepalmer95 wrote: »
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
False. Raiding requires in depth knowledge, performance optimization, stable and reliable execution/performance, experience with the raid, patience, stamina and commitment. Many of these attributes are not present in PvP and not every good PvPer is automatically good at PvE. Just like every good PvEers isn't automatically good at PvP. Goes both ways. Very few of the good PvPers have done vMoL HM. They all say they could if they had a good group or could be bothered. But that's just meaningless talk. The difference between PvE and PvP right now is that PvE has leaderboards so it is easy to see who is really good. In PvP everyone can claim to be good and it will always be a subjective matter depending on who you ask.
I usually agree with your posts here on forums but that was just a supid PvP-biased comment that isn't substantiated by any empirical data or knowledge.
Lol @ pvp leaderboards. A true test of might they are!
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Hey am just saying PVP has leaderboards for the campaign. you said the difference between the two was leaderboards and I told you that PVP has leaderboards as well which is a fact.brandonv516 wrote: »
PvP has leaderboards.Tbh I don't anyone who is considered a good pvper who is a bad pver.I do know by percentage more PVP players have completed VMA than PVE players.You have to be good at PVE or at least competent to complete VMA.By a whole more pure or people who enjoy PVP more than PVE in this game has completed it than PVErs.leepalmer95 wrote: »
You can be a good pve'er but a bad pvp'er
But you can't a good pvp'er and a bad pve'er.
False. Raiding requires in depth knowledge, performance optimization, stable and reliable execution/performance, experience with the raid, patience, stamina and commitment. Many of these attributes are not present in PvP and not every good PvPer is automatically good at PvE. Just like every good PvEers isn't automatically good at PvP. Goes both ways. Very few of the good PvPers have done vMoL HM. They all say they could if they had a good group or could be bothered. But that's just meaningless talk. The difference between PvE and PvP right now is that PvE has leaderboards so it is easy to see who is really good. In PvP everyone can claim to be good and it will always be a subjective matter depending on who you ask.
I usually agree with your posts here on forums but that was just a supid PvP-biased comment that isn't substantiated by any empirical data or knowledge.
Lol @ pvp leaderboards. A true test of might they are!
I wasn't the person you were initially replying to. I just jumped in for a quick laugh.0 -
IronCrystal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guarantee you PvPer doens't make good PvEer. I know plenty of people who grind AP to get top 50 in the 30 day campaigns who go to CoA to just bow snipe Skoria.Make PC NA raiding great again!
Down with drama!
What Mechanics Healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Homestead Raid Scores
vHRC 157,030
vAA 138,287
vSO 153,393
vMoL 154,550
Not raiding in Morrowind0 -
Blackfyre20✭✭✭✭Just make it blockable, no need for a damage reduction on top of thatBuff Soft Caps0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait. Wasn't all the PTS ultimate talk that the destro ultimate sucked compared to other Ultimates?
I think this is the issue - let's say that your Eye of the Storm ticks for 7K Fire Damage every second for 10 seconds. People complained it was a bit too weak and not to overbuff it. Increase its damage, reduce its Ult cost... do something.
Here is what ZOS did:
Elemental Storm
- Decreased the length of time for this Ultimate to 6 seconds from 10 seconds.
- Doubled the damage done per hit.
Icy Rage will now immobilize targets affected by the storm instead of granting a 100% chance to apply a chilled effect.
Fiery Rage now deals 10% additional damage instead of granting a 100% chance to apply a burning effect.
Thunderous Rage now increases this ability’s duration by 2 seconds instead of granting a 100% chance to apply concussion.
Now a 7K base damage tick will deal 14K base damage! This is before any critical modifier. It does not need to last as long as it used to since your target will melt almost immediately when used at a good time. Overall DPS increased by exactly 20% (cool) but now it deals its damage over about half the time as well.
The ticks were buffed by 100%. That's not what people were asking for.
I play on console so I don't know exactly how weak it was before, but Eye of the Storm never needed a 100% damage buff per tick. Pretty sure that's a bit much for any skill besides like.... Fire Rune
Edited by Vaoh on December 5, 2016 6:38AM4 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Guess reduce Visual effect on itNA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wait. Wasn't all the PTS ultimate talk that the destro ultimate sucked compared to other Ultimates?
I think this is the issue - let's say that your Eye of the Storm ticks for 7K Fire Damage every second for 10 seconds. People complained it was a bit too weak and not to overbuff it. Increase its damage, reduce its Ult cost... do something.
Here is what ZOS did:
Elemental Storm
- Decreased the length of time for this Ultimate to 6 seconds from 10 seconds.
- Doubled the damage done per hit.
Icy Rage will now immobilize targets affected by the storm instead of granting a 100% chance to apply a chilled effect.
Fiery Rage now deals 10% additional damage instead of granting a 100% chance to apply a burning effect.
Thunderous Rage now increases this ability’s duration by 2 seconds instead of granting a 100% chance to apply concussion.
Now a 7K base damage tick will deal 14K base damage! This is before any critical modifier. It does not need to last as long as it used to since your target will melt almost immediately when used at a good time. Overall DPS increased by exactly 20% (cool) but now it deals its damage over about half the time as well.
The ticks were buffed by 100%. That's not what people were asking for.
I play on console so I don't know exactly how weak it was before, but Eye of the Storm never needed a 100% damage buff per tick. Pretty sure that's a bit much for any skill besides like.... Fire Rune
It's Sooo fun to use tho ! But ya , it is twice as powerful as TC version . It needs a shave N a haircut .0