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price ceiling for dreugh wax and tempering alloys
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And if had read my earlier post about adding a chat for buy sell or trade, maybe remove the yell catagory. Believe me I know how annoying it get when someone links their entire inventory on chat. I personally don't spam any of. I will put in a request for y and willing to pay x. I will then wait it out and do other thing for a while before trying again. IMHO they should add another channel for guild recruitment. Those guys are worse than telemarketers.
I am still firmly against an AH, as has been stated in precious threads and this post. If you think cornering a market is bad in eso go to a game with an AH. Much easier to corner rare items. Seen people snipe or have bots do it for them. One stop market cornering. If by some chance eso would give us a search function across multiple traders it could help. MM on console allows this, and you don't see the prices on there swing as wild as console.
I have had good experiences with other games that use an auction house to supplement the in-game economy, so I don't understand your point. They work much better than this game's economy - which I have largely just given up on entirely and sell almost exclusively to NPCs now.
Markets tend to work better when they are convenient, accessible and easy to use. A search function would be nice for browsing (one is desperately needed) but that still would not give players who are adverse to trade spam and don't belong to large trading guilds access to sell their materials.Edited by Jeremy on November 23, 2016 8:45PM0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
Who is we? How can you say many players? How many? So aggravating when people attempt to speak for others.
Because I have spoken to many players who feel the same way I do. You get aggravated way too easily.
It's no secret that many players detest trade spam economies. That is just a fact and isn't particularly controversial to say. I am glad that you enjoy them - but many of us do not.
It is not a fact. Facts are able to be backed by proof, which your "fact" can not be. I am sorry that you don't find it aggravating for people to speak for you without your input.
I could say I spoke to 1000 people who all said they love one thing, but that doesn't make it true. In order for you to say something is a fact there is a burden of proof.
So to say many of us do not is untrue atm.0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Jeremy's been arguing for an auction house for like 2 years. We have (makkir) repeatedly gone back and forth on this multiple times. He lost 2 years ago, and still loses that argument.
Just the fact you still remember me from 2 years ago... makes me question your assertion that I lost this argument. lol
In any case - and judging from this thread - your counter argument amounts to "I like to role play as a merchant" therefore no auction house should be included and screw everyone else who doesn't like to role play as a merchant.
Sorry, but I don't find that a very convincing argument.
I remember everyone
I do have an argument but I am in no mood to type it out again from my mobile device. Its a 2yr old topic, and ZOS has not displayed any intentions to change it.
But your argument can also flip against you "I dont like playing a merchant, so screw everyone else who does"
0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
Who is we? How can you say many players? How many? So aggravating when people attempt to speak for others.
Because I have spoken to many players who feel the same way I do. You get aggravated way too easily.
It's no secret that many players detest trade spam economies. That is just a fact and isn't particularly controversial to say. I am glad that you enjoy them - but many of us do not.
It is not a fact. Facts are able to be backed by proof, which your "fact" can not be. I am sorry that you don't find it aggravating for people to speak for you without your input.
I could say I spoke to 1000 people who all said they love one thing, but that doesn't make it true. In order for you to say something is a fact there is a burden of proof.
So to say many of us do not is untrue atm.
Like I just told you, I have spoken to many other players who do not like dealing with trade spam. So I'm not speaking for anyone without their input or what ever you are going on about. They have informed me - themselves - that they do not care for it.
I suppose they could all be lying and secretly they love trade spam. But that would make even less sense than you are making by being aggravated by it.
A lot of people just don't like dealing with trade spam. I am comfortable stating that as a fact. If you want to disbelieve that - and think everyone adores trade spam then be my guest.Edited by Jeremy on November 23, 2016 8:53PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Jeremy's been arguing for an auction house for like 2 years. We have (makkir) repeatedly gone back and forth on this multiple times. He lost 2 years ago, and still loses that argument.
Just the fact you still remember me from 2 years ago... makes me question your assertion that I lost this argument. lol
In any case - and judging from this thread - your counter argument amounts to "I like to role play as a merchant" therefore no auction house should be included and screw everyone else who doesn't like to role play as a merchant.
Sorry, but I don't find that a very convincing argument.
I remember everyone
I do have an argument but I am in no mood to type it out again from my mobile device. Its a 2yr old topic, and ZOS has not displayed any intentions to change it.
But your argument can also flip against you "I dont like playing a merchant, so screw everyone else who does"
But I don't get that.
Why would including an auction house prevent you from role playing as a merchant? You could still barter on chat.Edited by Jeremy on November 23, 2016 8:56PM0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And if had read my earlier post about adding a chat for buy sell or trade, maybe remove the yell catagory. Believe me I know how annoying it get when someone links their entire inventory on chat. I personally don't spam any of. I will put in a request for y and willing to pay x. I will then wait it out and do other thing for a while before trying again. IMHO they should add another channel for guild recruitment. Those guys are worse than telemarketers.
I am still firmly against an AH, as has been stated in precious threads and this post. If you think cornering a market is bad in eso go to a game with an AH. Much easier to corner rare items. Seen people snipe or have bots do it for them. One stop market cornering. If by some chance eso would give us a search function across multiple traders it could help. MM on console allows this, and you don't see the prices on there swing as wild as console.
I have had good experiences with other games that use an auction house to supplement the in-game economy, so I don't understand your point. They work much better than this game's economy - which I have largely just given up on entirely and sell almost exclusively to NPCs now.
Markets tend to work better when they are convenient, accessible and easy to use. A search function would be nice for browsing (one is desperately needed) but that still would not give players who are adverse to trade spam and don't belong to large trading guilds access to sell their materials.
Your experience and mine with an AH are vastly different. I have seen too many things about them I didn't like for me to want one here. I'm sure there are some benefits, but at what cost?
Let's say I like playing a merchant, with a central auction house all I have to do is sit and refresh. I can now corner the market on let's say kutas. I can also partner with 2, 3 maybe 4 others and completely drain all kutas from the market. At this point I could litrely hold all the kutas for ransom. I could artificially inflate the value. At least with the way eso is now, and it's not perfect, is better for a competitive market.
I'm not gonna go to every guild trader to buy all of the kutas. And like I stated in earlier posts, a buy sell trade channel, so you don't have to see the spam. I have also seen guilds put together auctions of their own.
If you don't understand my point I don't know how else to explain it. Simply put, there are options other than guild traders for people to buy gold tempers. Im not sure you have read through all the comments in this thread. Your experiences with any other game are not the same as everyone elses.0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.
This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.
If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.
still this nonsense.....
for it to be a cartel the guilds would have to control the means of production.
anyone can farm materials. anyone can offer for sale materials.... anywhere, anytime.2 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And because of people refusing to adapt and use the tools available, prices will remain high. On the flip side a great many players use these tool to their advantage, and won't pay 20k for a gold alloy.1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And because of people refusing to adapt and use the tools available, prices will remain high. On the flip side a great many players use these tool to their advantage, and won't pay 20k for a gold alloy.
exactly.... unfortunately the snowflakes are unable to adapt.2 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah we don't need an AH. There are people I know who transferred to xb eu from pc that have hundreds of millions of gold (proven via trade and screen shots) these people could easily gobble up everything in the game and just list it for double every single time. I consider myself rich at 7.4m atm but some of the transfer guys are Opera rich and will derail the entire economy without a second though. So @Jeremy we cannot have this alone for this reason. People live in this game to make money. An AH will only fuel thier joy at the despair of thousands of others. It cannot happen. Plus it's just plain lazy. Everyone knows by now the good spots to shop.Edited by DRXHarbinger on November 23, 2016 10:04PMPC Master Race
1001CP
8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
Master Angler
Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
Tamriel Hero
Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!1 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing should be done. Free market is the best approach. If they are expensive, more people will farm them and the price will drop. Supply and demand.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »Yeah we don't need an AH. There are people I know who transferred to xb eu from pc that have hundreds of millions of gold (proven via trade and screen shots) these people could easily gobble up everything in the game and just list it for double every single time. I consider myself rich at 7.4m atm but some of the transfer guys are Opera rich and will derail the entire economy without a second though. So @Jeremy we cannot have this alone for this reason. People live in this game to make money. An AH will only fuel thier joy at the despair of thousands of others. It cannot happen. Plus it's just plain lazy. Everyone knows by now the good spots to shop.
Since you brought up my name:
People with tons of money could buy up guild stores and do the same thing. No difference. In fact - it would easier to do in a guild store.
As far as these annoying comments about snowflakes unable to adapt (which I understand you did not make) - I adapt just fine. As I said - I make my own gold selling to NPCs and get by. I rarely bother with this game's player-driven economy because it's usually a waste of my time. I have better things to do than read trade spam or advertise like damn commercial - or try to find new trade guilds every time I take a break from the game. I will on occasion buy things from the Guild Traders, but that's about it.
Do we need an auction house? No. You can play this game without one. But one would be preferred - because it would improve this game's economy. There is a reason nearly every other MMORPG has an auction house driven economy - because it's currently the best method for creating a thriving economy that everyone can participate in.
Edited by Jeremy on November 24, 2016 2:01AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And because of people refusing to adapt and use the tools available, prices will remain high. On the flip side a great many players use these tool to their advantage, and won't pay 20k for a gold alloy.
exactly.... unfortunately the snowflakes are unable to adapt.
It's this game that refuses to adapt - by relying on an economic model that went extinct decades ago like trade spam economies.
Adapting to a crappy design isn't something to be proud of. If you want to see a real free market - then add a market place that everyone can easily participate in by putting their materials up for sale at (an Auction House). Because standing in town all day reading trade spam doesn't qualify as a free market.
To be quite honest with you - it's the snowflakes who are afraid of an auction house who fear a free market.Edited by Jeremy on November 24, 2016 1:39AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.
This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.
If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.
still this nonsense.....
for it to be a cartel the guilds would have to control the means of production.
anyone can farm materials. anyone can offer for sale materials.... anywhere, anytime.
I was referring to guild traders. And no - players cannot offer to sale their materials there anywhere, anytime.
Edited by Jeremy on November 24, 2016 1:41AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And if had read my earlier post about adding a chat for buy sell or trade, maybe remove the yell catagory. Believe me I know how annoying it get when someone links their entire inventory on chat. I personally don't spam any of. I will put in a request for y and willing to pay x. I will then wait it out and do other thing for a while before trying again. IMHO they should add another channel for guild recruitment. Those guys are worse than telemarketers.
I am still firmly against an AH, as has been stated in precious threads and this post. If you think cornering a market is bad in eso go to a game with an AH. Much easier to corner rare items. Seen people snipe or have bots do it for them. One stop market cornering. If by some chance eso would give us a search function across multiple traders it could help. MM on console allows this, and you don't see the prices on there swing as wild as console.
I have had good experiences with other games that use an auction house to supplement the in-game economy, so I don't understand your point. They work much better than this game's economy - which I have largely just given up on entirely and sell almost exclusively to NPCs now.
Markets tend to work better when they are convenient, accessible and easy to use. A search function would be nice for browsing (one is desperately needed) but that still would not give players who are adverse to trade spam and don't belong to large trading guilds access to sell their materials.
Your experience and mine with an AH are vastly different. I have seen too many things about them I didn't like for me to want one here. I'm sure there are some benefits, but at what cost?
Let's say I like playing a merchant, with a central auction house all I have to do is sit and refresh. I can now corner the market on let's say kutas. I can also partner with 2, 3 maybe 4 others and completely drain all kutas from the market. At this point I could litrely hold all the kutas for ransom. I could artificially inflate the value. At least with the way eso is now, and it's not perfect, is better for a competitive market.
I'm not gonna go to every guild trader to buy all of the kutas. And like I stated in earlier posts, a buy sell trade channel, so you don't have to see the spam. I have also seen guilds put together auctions of their own.
If you don't understand my point I don't know how else to explain it. Simply put, there are options other than guild traders for people to buy gold tempers. Im not sure you have read through all the comments in this thread. Your experiences with any other game are not the same as everyone elses.
So your argument is an auction house is bad because you could buy up all the Kuta runes?
That just doesn't make any sense to me. It would be far easier to buy up all the Kuta Runes from the popular guild traders (since they are smaller markets are more contained) then it would be a server-wide auction house where there would likely be a steady stream of Kuta Runes coming in on a regular basis.
Edited by Jeremy on November 24, 2016 1:51AM0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is this turning into yet another auction house thread ?
Too bad. Was interesting while it lasted.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »I got kicked out of a guild once for having the audacity to sell a perfect roe for "only" 50,000 gold the day it was added.
The guild master honestly thought he could price fix it above 100k.
@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO and we see how that worked for him.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »Just being paranoid. We don't sit down and talk to each to each other we just see what everyone else is doing and follow suit.
^ so much this ^
When people pretend that "big guilds control the prices", people don't realize that it is simply impossible, because the players decide the prices, not the guild leaders. And if you look at how difficult it is to make of group of say, 5 players to agree on something in any guild, can you really imagine 500 people somewhere on teamspeak agreeing on prices for high-demanded items ? Nonsense.
^^^^
@anitajoneb17_ESO understands the reality of this.
0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Price controls only create scarcity and lack of supply.
I really wish schools taught basic economics nowadays. There are far too many ignorant people that need to know basic facts. Things like... Why we don't control prices. Why we can't give expensive things away for free. Why you have to be competitive.
Dunno what you're talking about in Russia and France, Economics is a compulsory subject at some point. English/American systems on the other hand do seem to be kinda lackluster. I speak from experience when I say that New Zealand education is horrendous compared to other countries I've lived and studied in.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Putting aside the auction house squabble for one moment...
The OP is saying "Tempers cost too much. It's not fair. ZoS should set a price so that I can buy them cheaply."
Or, more succinctly... "Boo hoo... it's not fair!".
At which point it should be clear to any reasonable person just how ridiculous an idea it is.2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My stamina nightblade uses a lightning staff just because it's cheaper to gold out.0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.
Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.
Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.
And if had read my earlier post about adding a chat for buy sell or trade, maybe remove the yell catagory. Believe me I know how annoying it get when someone links their entire inventory on chat. I personally don't spam any of. I will put in a request for y and willing to pay x. I will then wait it out and do other thing for a while before trying again. IMHO they should add another channel for guild recruitment. Those guys are worse than telemarketers.
I am still firmly against an AH, as has been stated in precious threads and this post. If you think cornering a market is bad in eso go to a game with an AH. Much easier to corner rare items. Seen people snipe or have bots do it for them. One stop market cornering. If by some chance eso would give us a search function across multiple traders it could help. MM on console allows this, and you don't see the prices on there swing as wild as console.
I have had good experiences with other games that use an auction house to supplement the in-game economy, so I don't understand your point. They work much better than this game's economy - which I have largely just given up on entirely and sell almost exclusively to NPCs now.
Markets tend to work better when they are convenient, accessible and easy to use. A search function would be nice for browsing (one is desperately needed) but that still would not give players who are adverse to trade spam and don't belong to large trading guilds access to sell their materials.
Your experience and mine with an AH are vastly different. I have seen too many things about them I didn't like for me to want one here. I'm sure there are some benefits, but at what cost?
Let's say I like playing a merchant, with a central auction house all I have to do is sit and refresh. I can now corner the market on let's say kutas. I can also partner with 2, 3 maybe 4 others and completely drain all kutas from the market. At this point I could litrely hold all the kutas for ransom. I could artificially inflate the value. At least with the way eso is now, and it's not perfect, is better for a competitive market.
I'm not gonna go to every guild trader to buy all of the kutas. And like I stated in earlier posts, a buy sell trade channel, so you don't have to see the spam. I have also seen guilds put together auctions of their own.
If you don't understand my point I don't know how else to explain it. Simply put, there are options other than guild traders for people to buy gold tempers. Im not sure you have read through all the comments in this thread. Your experiences with any other game are not the same as everyone elses.
So your argument is an auction house is bad because you could buy up all the Kuta runes?
That just doesn't make any sense to me. It would be far easier to buy up all the Kuta Runes from the popular guild traders (since they are smaller markets are more contained) then it would be a server-wide auction house where there would likely be a steady stream of Kuta Runes coming in on a regular basis.
That is backwards thinking. If I wanted to buy up all the Kuta it would be a lot easier to sit at one place and do it. If I wanted to buy all the Kuta in our current system I would have to put in more work to acess them. As far as a steady stream it would be even easier to snipe them.1 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Anyone can sell their stock on the market, I have not been part of an active trading guild for at least 2 months and have still make about 500k gold through sales without trying. I am on PS4 NA and I can go to any main city and monitor text chat, heaps of people are offering to buy and sell items without using guild traders.disintegr8 wrote: »
We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.
There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.
Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.
A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.
I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).
Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.
I log onto 6 characters every day to do daily writs (yes, I make the effort to do things that actually get me materials) and if I see someone calling out for an item that I am happy to sell, I will sell it.
The bottom line is still that anything I have that can be sold, can be obtained by anyone else in the game without them buying it. You are only a prisoner to the market, and any perceived monopoly, if you can not or will not be bothered going and getting it yourself.Edited by disintegr8 on November 24, 2016 10:27PMAustralian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So much to respond to but I'm gonna focus on the few people who have given up on the guild traders and vendor good items.
You do realize there is an entire thread on this forum dedicated to guild recruitment right? If you take 10 minutes to respond to a few different posts you'll gave a half dozen invites in your inbox within 24 hours. It's not all that hard.
My main trader was in Belkarth until a few months ago when it suddenly disbanded. I was without a trader for about 3 days or so. I spent 2 weeks in a sub par one, kept looking on these very forums and got an invite to a primo one in Elden Root. It really doesn't take much effort. Some of you give up too fast. Show some gumption people.0