price ceiling for dreugh wax and tempering alloys

idk · November 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

You just need to learn how to get better prices. I bought 3 tempers yesterday 10k ea. Never go to guild traders for stuff like that. Prime example is the Psijic ambrosia frags. 120-10k on traders. I get mine under 50k ea. Learn how to work the market. Alot of low level players will sell low to get gold for something, I was buying frags over the weekend and a guy offered them to me @ 4k ea. I still gave him fair market value but there are people that either don't care or don't know.

I'm aware you can find unsuspecting players who don't know what they have or the value of it. But I'm talking about the 90% market value, not the exception. I'm talking about the community price. If we all "looked for a deal" as you suggested, it wouldn't be a deal anymore, would it?

Exactly. If everyone or at least many people made the effort to look for deals (instead of complaining about prices but buying anyway) high priced goods would not sell and prices would drop for everybody.

Remember : everytime you buy something at a certain price, it means you agree on that price, because you have the choice to NOT BUY. In ESO there's nothing you cannot farm by yourself and thus obtain without gold (unlike RL where you have no choice but to buy some basic stuff regardless of price).

Again, this is not specifically about cost. Its also about time. Time is money.

@BigES

The person you quoted is correct that we agree to the price we buy it at. Market forces set the price.

Additionally, and more important, legendary quality gear is intended to be much rarer than epic. It's by obvious design in the game. The price should not be cheap.

It's a choice.

I don't think you understand the concept of inflation...

Lol. Inflation only occurred eso based on our choices and how it affects market pressures.

So no, you don't understand how inflation works. As long as we both accept that. "Market forces" isn't some abstract concept or something that just occurs in a vacuum. People control those "market forces" in your every day life, you just may not be aware of it.

You seem a tad confused if Your saying I do not know how inflation works. Or your not reading my posts.

Market forces absolute control inflation and deflation in eso. 100%. In the vacuum the game is. There are no other forces than supply and demand changes available to the game.

People control what via buying more and buying less. They control it by selling more and selling less.

Basic economics at work. Cannot get more basic than this.

Factors other than supply and demand that impact ESO, off the top of my head.

Monetary policy, substitute goods, complementary goods, imperfect information, monopolistic profit, barriers to entry. Just to name a few. All of these contribute to the supply and demand function, and are much more complex than your basic assessment. Saying things are a simple as supply and demand demonstrates a lack of understanding of the basic principles that drive any economy.

Dude. Lay off the skooma.

For starters you seem to like to argue with many in this thread like @anitajoneb17_ESO and @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO yet your wrong.

Honestly, monetary policy? Who sets it? Molag bal, the emporer?

There is not governing body in eso settings ng such things. There are no substitute goods for gold uigrade matts.

I can go on with your list because most of it is a complete joke.

Monetary policy if determined by ZOS. If you don't comprehend what these basic economic factors are then you don't need to comment.

It seems as though you do not comprehend what monetary policy is which explains much about your odd claims.

Using Webster for the definition:

Definition of monetary policy. : measures taken by the central bank and treasury to strengthen the economy and minimize cyclical fluctuations through the availability and cost of credit, budgetary and tax policies, and other financial factors and comprising credit control and fiscal policy.

To sum this up, it would be the macroeconomic policies laid down by a central bank or central authority on the matter.

Yea, LOL, Zos does not take part in any of this. It is what makes me wonder if you are actually serious or understand basic economic policies.

If you can't understand fundamental economics then I won't bother engaging you further. No big deal. But it's hard to communicate when people can't agree on basic facts. In any game economy, the developers have the function of the central bank. They control the money supplies. Traders fees, repair fees? Those are taxes. Drop rates for gold and such are essentially the same as buying and selling bonds. These are fundamentals that are present in absolutely any transaction. The supply of cookies distributed by a teacher the preschool class is the same principal. Just because something doesn't say central bank in its title doesn't mean it can't fulfill the same basic roles.

And this is where I make my exit and why I don't typically post on internet forums. You could just spend your entire day trying to teach people complicated subject matter. But I care about the health of this game and thought I'd try, since I've played since day 1. Turns out people are still not receptive or willing to learn on the internet, and still want to do quick wikipedia searches in an attempt to "win" the argument and explain to you how much they "know".

Maybe the game developers will read this and listen to two practicing economists who enjoy the game. Or maybe they'll hear the loudest voices, which are typically the opinion that wins the argument.

Anyways, enjoy the internet trolls man. Lol. I'm done.

LOL, thanks for pointing out that guys complete lack of understanding of economics. I have been getting a laugh out of the replies @SwaminoNowlino has made.

Fortunately Zos has business people employed and understand actual economic principles.

@BigES he was so close lololol

I suggest stopping while you are behind.

I suggest you scroll up to the educational post once again in hopes you begin to understand monetary policy. I figure one lesson at a time for you. Maybe you will be able to put forth an informed post instead of the perverted information you have been sharing in this thread.

Please oh wise one, educate me on the implementation of a restrictive monetary policy and its role in managing inflation. Or should I copy and paste a dictionary definition that I don't really understand to mask that I have no idea what I am talking about?

Sadly my attempts to educate you have failed. I feel it will continue to be a fruitless effort to continue and as such will leave you to your misconceptions and uninformed state.

Jeremy · November 2016

BigES wrote: »

Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.

This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.

If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.

Jeremy · November 2016

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Mettaricana · November 2016

Zos just needs to stop nerfing its drop rates little by little every major update or up the extraction chances

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Logic is reasoning assessed according to strict principles of validity. Not fancy assumptions.

"Making gold in ESO is easier than earning real money in real life" is... a fancy assumption ?

gp1680 · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.

This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.

If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.

I respectfully disagree. I've been part of many different guilds, some big ones, some not so big. Some definitely collude and fix prices others do not. You are free to leave any guild that sets prices and start your own or join up with a guild that allows you to sell freely. When I'm searching for the best prices on gears and mats, it does not take all that long to travel to the different trading hubs and peruse the different guild traders. There are a ton. Usually, the wares from those guilds that are fixing prices are not as competitive as others. That's where they lose. On some days, I find great stuff. Other days, I leave empty-handed, so then I go farm what I need. I do not see any one Trading Guild dominating the market.

Stopnaggin · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.

This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.

If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.

Because giving an AH would make it worse than what you perceive it is now. I have seen AH in games and they are worse than a few guild traders. A few people can then control even more of the market. Not as bad on consoles as pc but none the less a bad idea. Instead of having bots farming they are now sniping everything of value at a price lower than their own. Which creates the so called monopoly people are complaining about here.

The reason prices are lower on pc, at least how I see it, is they have addons that allow searching for specific items. If we had something like this here we could maybe drive prices down. Also giving up and coming guilds a chance to compete. Another suggestion would be to have buy sell trade chat option. Remove the yell catagory chang it to bst.

Some people have already started to circumvent the guild traders by setting up auction in certain spots on certain days.

I will admit I'm not some economic guru, and a lot of what I have read has been educational. Valid point from both sides of the isle. I will not resort to name calling or flaming. You can get things done better through open minded debate. So let's please keep it respectful

purple-magicb16_ESO · November 2016

I can't speak too much to dreugh wax but I'm in 5 trading guilds (I'm on pc) some with some high profile locations (Daggerfall, Stormhaven, Windhelm to a leser degree) and I have never seen tempering alloys posted for 25k. They usually go for 9k each, but I do have to admit price has gone up slightly to maybe 10k recently. At least in my guilds it's not dificult to find a temp alloy for 9k. Still not cheap, but better than 17-20k or 25k.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · November 2016

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

I can't speak too much to dreugh wax but I'm in 5 trading guilds (I'm on pc) some with some high profile locations (Daggerfall, Stormhaven, Windhelm to a leser degree) and I have never seen tempering alloys posted for 25k. They usually go for 9k each, but I do have to admit price has gone up slightly to maybe 10k recently. At least in my guilds it's not dificult to find a temp alloy for 9k. Still not cheap, but better than 17-20k or 25k.

It's a console issue.

Stopnaggin · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.

AjiBuster499 · November 2016

I didn't read 99% of this because all I have to say is,

French for ‘leave alone’, laissez-faire is an economic theory that became popular in the 18th century. The driving idea behind laissez-faire as a theory was that the less the government is involved in free market capitalism, the better off business will be, and then by extension society as a whole.

(Definition courtesy of Investopedia.)
Short Version: Every game economy is laissez-faire because you can't implement a government in a game.

Full Version:
Granted we don't have any kind of government in ESO that can influence the economy (unless you can make a wild claim about ZOS and drop rates), the same basic idea that private companies (players) control the economy to promote a more capitalistic atmosphere. Pretty much every game economy will be laissez-faire, since most of the time there isn't a government in play that can influence pricing (AIs won't work because they can't think at the complexity required for an effective and working government to appear, last I checked, and using real people would only contribute to laissez-faire since the government officials would need to be the GMs so that players don't benefit off of governmental positions, i.e. being able to set prices that benefit them only, which would result in something more totalitarian)

AlnilamE · November 2016

BigES wrote: »

I think we can all agree here that there is a drastic issue with an unchecked money supply (gold). You can choose to believe whether this issue has lead to unchecked and inflated prices for gold materials, or not. Regardless, it is a simple economic principle that a large unregulated supply of gold both inflates and distorts relative prices, including dreugh wax and tempering alloys. That is what inflation does. The 1 gold you're holding how has less purchasing power, because there's more of it. To hedge against this, smart people buy up useful things like top tier items and gold materials, removing them from the market and raising prices. Because its not profitable for them to hold money when its constantly being devalued.

That is a bit relative though. The 1 gold has less purchasing power to buy 1 Dreugh Wax because it's sought after atm, and the overabundant supply caused by a couple of exploits a while back has been exhausted. So now we have normal supply and higher demand.

OTOH, that same 1 gold has more purchasing power if I want to buy the Celestial Motif pages I'm missing, because as more people complete their sets and get extras, they are offering it for less.

With the introduction of the new XP potion, the 1 gold now buys less of a Psijic Ambrosia recipe fragment than it did before. It will also buy less of the Perfect Roe, but it will buy more fish.

The price curves in this game, particularly ones that are unintentional due to game mechanic changes are something that I find very interesting.

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2016

AjiBuster499 wrote: »

Granted we don't have any kind of government in ESO that can influence the economy (unless you can make a wild claim about ZOS and drop rates), the same basic idea that private companies (players) control the economy to promote a more capitalistic atmosphere.

The "UNLESS" you're mentioning is such a big "unless" that it nullifies your entire theory.

OF COURSE there's a "governement" in ESO, and a very impactful at that :
- it determines the efficiency of work (drop rates)
- it can set at its discretion the bottom and ceiling prices for whatever good they want (via NPC traders)
- it can create or suppress distribution channels (trading interface, zone chat, guild traders)
- it can analyze the market and collect quantified data that aren't published - they have more knowledge than any of us can gather.
- it determines the availability of the currency
- it determines the income of most ingame activities (quest rewards, mob drops) as well as most gold sinks (repair, taxes)...
- it has the absolute monopole of changes and innovation (updates and design changes, new items, etc...)
-
ZOS is a pretty powerful governement...

I think what you're referring to is a *police*, for limiting scams and abuse, but that's entirely different.

DRXHarbinger · November 2016

Btw there is no collusion. We just see someone's prices and either copy of undercut by 100g. That's all it is. Most sellers who churn put tons of gold mats don't really talk to each other. So long as GM is happy and gets a spot each week anything goes. If anything this is all that's selling. Yokudan motif, gold mats....that's it. I have 53 TG, 21 DB motifs and several order hour and minotaur and some jewlery and none of it is shifting. No one is buying anything atm other than gold mats for thier new proc gear. This is all there is atm to make a solid profit on (bar my recent windfall with ambrosia recipes but I was lucky and snapped up all of them within minutes of it being announced on PC)

Just being paranoid. We don't sit down and talk to each to each other we just see what everyone else is doing and follow suit.

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Just being paranoid. We don't sit down and talk to each to each other we just see what everyone else is doing and follow suit.

^ so much this ^
When people pretend that "big guilds control the prices", people don't realize that it is simply impossible, because the players decide the prices, not the guild leaders. And if you look at how difficult it is to make of group of say, 5 players to agree on something in any guild, can you really imagine 500 people somewhere on teamspeak agreeing on prices for high-demanded items ? Nonsense.

What we do is look at master merchant's info, see the trend, look at what others are currently doing in our guild and neighbouring guilds if needed. Then, depending on how quick we need the item sold, and our expectations on that particular market, we set the price above or under other sellers' prices? That's all there is to it. The more "oversupply" there is (which will translates in many items being listed), the more sellers will decide to undercut and the quicker the prices drop. Inversely, the more "overdemand" there is (which will translate in NO item being listed) the more sellers will decide to price higher than master merchant and prices will rise.

gp1680 · November 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Just being paranoid. We don't sit down and talk to each to each other we just see what everyone else is doing and follow suit.

^ so much this ^
When people pretend that "big guilds control the prices", people don't realize that it is simply impossible, because the players decide the prices, not the guild leaders. And if you look at how difficult it is to make of group of say, 5 players to agree on something in any guild, can you really imagine 500 people somewhere on teamspeak agreeing on prices for high-demanded items ? Nonsense.

What we do is look at master merchant's info, see the trend, look at what others are currently doing in our guild and neighbouring guilds if needed. Then, depending on how quick we need the item sold, and our expectations on that particular market, we set the price above or under other sellers' prices? That's all there is to it. The more "oversupply" there is (which will translates in many items being listed), the more sellers will decide to undercut and the quicker the prices drop. Inversely, the more "overdemand" there is (which will translate in NO item being listed) the more sellers will decide to price higher than master merchant and prices will rise.

Well, I have been part of guilds that control prices. I was prohibited from selling in one because I didn't adhere to their "guidelines" on certain items. I left the guild and am happily selling in guilds now that don't fix prices and making mucho money...:).

THEDKEXPERIENCE · November 2016

I got kicked out of a guild once for having the audacity to sell a perfect roe for "only" 50,000 gold the day it was added.

The guild master honestly thought he could price fix it above 100k.

Jeremy · November 2016

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.

This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.

If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.

Because giving an AH would make it worse than what you perceive it is now.

Every other MMO I have played with an auction house has had a player-driven economy that was vastly superior to the one on ESO.

Waseem · November 2016

go harvest some raw materials and you'll get what you need
console people are so lazy that they rely on buying from guild store as the only way to obtain whatever they want...
you dont have time to harvest materials? this game is not for you, and if you still playing it and seeking yellow upgrade materials you are aiding the price to keep increasing ^^

alexkdd99 · November 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

I think we can all agree here that there is a drastic issue with an unchecked money supply (gold). You can choose to believe whether this issue has lead to unchecked and inflated prices for gold materials, or not. Regardless, it is a simple economic principle that a large unregulated supply of gold both inflates and distorts relative prices, including dreugh wax and tempering alloys. That is what inflation does. The 1 gold you're holding how has less purchasing power, because there's more of it. To hedge against this, smart people buy up useful things like top tier items and gold materials, removing them from the market and raising prices. Because its not profitable for them to hold money when its constantly being devalued.

Inflation happens in EVERY economy. There can be no monopoly on gold upgrade mats in an economy like eso since everyone has access to obtain gold upgrade mats.

How do you know that these supposed bots (which I've never seen) are Chinese? I farm from time to time and have never seen these bots you speak of.

You just don't want to put the time farming in and don't want to pay the price. The buyers set the price in this economy. If a seller is not selling at a certain price they will lower it.

Definitely a big no to price ceiling, zos has already made everything incredibly easy to get. Why do you think you should be able to get the best quality gear so easily?

YouTube abounds with videos of bot farmers and multi boxers, even on console.

No one is saying make them easy or cheap. No one. Inflation does happen in every economy, but every (functioning) economy also has tools to control inflation. All that's being suggested here is different ideas to combat inflation. Gold sinks are one, price ceilings are another. Since IC there has been approximately 250% inflation in the economy for xbox na. Maybe that's acceptable. Maybe not. Worth a debate.

What you are saying is there are so many bots that you can't farm. Now you are saying I have to go on YouTube to find them.

If there are any bots on xbox they are definitely few, and not over running the place preventing people from farming.

Also not everything translates over from rl to a game. Such as if zos decide to sell tempers below market value, they could for nothing. In rl the government can not do that, as it would cost more to produce the items than they would make in selling them.

So while this games economy is somewhat similar to rl, not everything is comparable.

Jeremy · November 2016

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.

Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.

Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.

Malamar1229 · November 2016

These posts are ALWAYS from the guys who just want to pew pew pew with zero regard for the players who enjoy farming and being a merchant.

Jeremy · November 2016

Malamar1229 wrote: »

These posts are ALWAYS from the guys who just want to pew pew pew with zero regard for the players who enjoy farming and being a merchant.

And what about the players who want to farm and be a merchant who do not belong to large trading guilds with access to guild traders?

What about the players who want to farm and be a merchant yet don't like to spend hours reading spam or advertising like a commercial - they would simply like to go farm their materials and then put them up for sale somewhere?

Do these players not matter?

alexkdd99 · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.

Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.

Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.

Who is we? How can you say many players? How many? So aggravating when people attempt to speak for others.

Jeremy wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.

This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.

If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.

Because giving an AH would make it worse than what you perceive it is now.

Every other MMO I have played with an auction house has had a player-driven economy that was vastly superior to the one on ESO.

And this is an opinion. And in my opinion you are incorrect. I find eso economy to be much much better than any auction house economy found in other MMOs.

Jeremy · November 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.

Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.

Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.

Who is we? How can you say many players? How many? So aggravating when people attempt to speak for others.

Because I have spoken to many players who feel the same way I do. You get aggravated way too easily.

It's no secret that many players detest trade spam economies. That is just a fact and isn't particularly controversial to say. I am glad that you enjoy them - but many of us do not.

Malamar1229 · November 2016

I played an armorsmith in Star Wars Galaxies (Makkir on Valcyn). I didn't PvE much or PvP. Crafting, running a shop, and farming materials was my CONTENT.
Guess what? I enjoy it here as well. I love going on auto pilot over the weekend and farming materials, bartering for deals, and flipping low price items. That is content to me, and many others.
On the flippity flip....its like me asking for a nerf to VMA because I dont enjoy PvE and dont have the time for it, yet I want access to the weapons. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.
OP- You're stuck in that entitled era paradigm. Stop thinking along the lines that what you enjoy is the only source of content.

Heres the rub- You actually have access to farm legendary tempers with zero limitations other than time. VMA is gated because it requires time, practice, and skill.

Jeremy · November 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.

Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.

Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.

Who is we? How can you say many players? How many? So aggravating when people attempt to speak for others.

Jeremy wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

BigES wrote: »

Something reasonable needs to be done about the insane prices for dreugh wax and tempering alloys. A simple non-game-breaking solution would be to set a price ceiling by using a vendor who sells wax and tempers at "near" market value (Xbox is roughly 15k temps, 8k wax). This would prevent players from extorting the market and buying up all the materials in order to artificially inflate the price and collude. What is this... OPEC? A price ceiling would still make farming and selling gold materials profitable, but would prevent the market from extreme fluctuations in price when 1) you guys decide to change things like the heavy armor passives that lead to insane temper demand when everyone crafts and gold's their heavy armor, 2) people leave or join the game and the supply of these materials drastically changes.

This game's economy pretty much is like OPEC. I've been saying it's a cartel for what seems like years now because that's exactly what it is. You have a few Trading Guilds who dominate the market and set the prices - since this game's economic system is limited by guild traders and lacks a central accessible market that would allow for regular competition.

If the developers are so dead set against giving us an auction house (for what ever dumb reason) the least they could do is let us set up bazaars or something.

Because giving an AH would make it worse than what you perceive it is now.

Every other MMO I have played with an auction house has had a player-driven economy that was vastly superior to the one on ESO.

And this is an opinion. And in my opinion you are incorrect. I find eso economy to be much much better than any auction house economy found in other MMOs.

Yes, that is my opinion.

What is your point?

Malamar1229 · November 2016

Jeremy's been arguing for an auction house for like 2 years. We have (makkir) repeatedly gone back and forth on this multiple times. He lost 2 years ago, and still loses that argument.

Jeremy · November 2016

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Jeremy's been arguing for an auction house for like 2 years. We have (makkir) repeatedly gone back and forth on this multiple times. He lost 2 years ago, and still loses that argument.

Just the fact you still remember me from 2 years ago... makes me question your assertion that I lost this argument. lol

In any case - and judging from this thread - your counter argument amounts to "I like to role play as a merchant" therefore no auction house should be included and screw everyone else who doesn't like to role play as a merchant.

Sorry, but I don't find that a very convincing argument.

Stopnaggin · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nothing prevents you from farming your own tempers.
It's not like any player has a monopoly on them.

There is a monopoly, it's called taking advantage of laziness. Harvesting Silk and Ore and hoping to be given a gold mat out of the hundreds you refine takes way too long, people want their gold gear now, right meow. And when you have the excess gold to buy up and resell, people are only left with the price you set. Capitalism.

Things would have been better if the market was run by ZOS and everything could be bought from NPC Traders at set prices.

We chose our priorities in the game, just as we choose our priorities in life. If you can't be bothered making lunch to take to work, you have no right to complain that the shop charges you $10 for something you could make for $2. They are not taking advantage of your laziness, you are suffering for your laziness, i.e. it is self inflicted.

A monopoly is when you have no alternative other than to pay the set price and in this case you have a choice. If you and 75% of players would rather do trials than gather materials, expect to pay a high price for the materials when you, and everyone else, need them. If 75% of people were happy to get their own materials, the demand drops and the price would come down.

I do not need to be educated in economics to comprehend this (I am in fact a high school dropout).

Except that the normal rules of supply and demand do not apply here - because many players (most players actually) cannot sell their materials on the market. Only those who belong to a few of the more popular trading guilds can. This means supply is kept artificially low while demand remains high - which amounts to higher prices.

Supplies are not low, I buy the in the open air market all the time at a discount. You don't have to be in a top guild to sell, with the introduction of zone chat on consoles I very rarely even visit kiosks. Everyone is free to use the chat and people are taking advantage of it. You may have to educate some people in the process, but I still work better for getting lower prices.

Trade Spam economies annoy many players (myself included). We don't play video games to sit around in chat reading spam or advertising like a commercial for hours. So while you're correct - everyone is free to use it - a great many players aren't going to use it because they have better ways to spend their time.

Because of this - supply is kept lower than it would be otherwise be if an auction house or something similar was introduced. That's what I am saying.

And if had read my earlier post about adding a chat for buy sell or trade, maybe remove the yell catagory. Believe me I know how annoying it get when someone links their entire inventory on chat. I personally don't spam any of. I will put in a request for y and willing to pay x. I will then wait it out and do other thing for a while before trying again. IMHO they should add another channel for guild recruitment. Those guys are worse than telemarketers.

I am still firmly against an AH, as has been stated in precious threads and this post. If you think cornering a market is bad in eso go to a game with an AH. Much easier to corner rare items. Seen people snipe or have bots do it for them. One stop market cornering. If by some chance eso would give us a search function across multiple traders it could help. MM on console allows this, and you don't see the prices on there swing as wild as console.