When is the 2h weap counting as 2bonus update coming

Doomslinger781 · November 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

It shouldn't happen tbh. The only real good thing about the vMA and vDSA 2h weapons is the 1pc weapon damage bonus you get with it. Being able to wear 2 5pc sets AND an undaunted set will make them pretty much useless. Personally I'd stop farming the arenas and just use another 5pc set if it ever happened.

Is a properly traited vMA or vDSA weapon still overshadowed by a potential 2-piece bonus from 2h weapons? If so, they would and should probably change that too, with all the hell one has to go through to get one.

I would venture to say less than 1% of players will ever complete vMA or vDSA, and yet a huge margin of folks want their favorite weapons and builds to be capable of the variety, flexibility, synergy, and fun the 5/5/2 standard offers.

But yeah, you bring up a good point: it wouldn't be a simple adjustment; they'd need to make vMA and vDSA weapons more worthwhile - kinda like they already need to do by ensuring they drop with non-garbage traits.

TequilaFire · November 2016

Just let people with 2H equip a dagger as a second weapon even if it is just for show to count as another set piece.
Many staff, sword and bow users carried a dagger in lore.

AlnilamE · November 2016

When all sets lose the 2-piece bonuses and start giving bonuses at 3 pieces again.

Doomslinger781 · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Its not confirmed this is happening... but my guess is at the exact same moment its drop rate is halved and its tempers cost is doubled..

That would be fine. The general consensus we saw in other threads is that material cost is a mere after-thought and almost moot point - but yes, it should be accounted for

1) If we're not talking about golding out a weapon, it's of almost no consequence for people.

2) I'm sure all the vMA and vDSA 2H weapon grinders would be fine with a halved drop rate if only those weapons stopped dropping with garbage traits

STEVIL · November 2016

Doomslinger781 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Its not confirmed this is happening... but my guess is at the exact same moment its drop rate is halved and its tempers cost is doubled..

That would be fine. The general consensus we saw in other threads is that material cost is a mere after-thought and almost moot point - but yes, it should be accounted for

1) If we're not talking about golding out a weapon, it's of almost no consequence for people.

2) I'm sure all the vMA and vDSA 2H weapon grinders would be fine with a halved drop rate if only those weapons stopped dropping with garbage traits

Consensus?

#1 Another thread i just commented on had folks fretting over gold costs to gear after set chsnges. As i said before, itvserms there are folks who think the costs are significant and doubling them would be more than trivial.

#2 so give a major boost far more than double to the drop rate for the ones they want before halving itand they would be ok... you make my point for me.

So, we can agree, AFTER they change the drop rate issues for weapon traits, they should look at set bonus counts.

OOJIMMY · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

There are a couple sets you can use that will allow you to use 2 5 piece sets and a monster set even with a 2 handed weapon. Clever Alchemist or Armour Master back buff bar.

This idea is just a cry for what you dont have when you can work around it. Having this extra set bonus is what makes duel wield and s+b unique, take that away and you make the game even more linear and boring.

I completely disagree with this idea and i have every time its been posted.

This change would add to build diversity - and allow players to combine and use more and different sets then would otherwise be the case.

So if anything - this would make the game less linear and less boring. It would certainly give my character more options - and make him more interesting to play.

It wouldn't diversify anything, but mage it worse. The sets that dw currently run would just transfer to 2h and one of the two bonus dw has over 2h would be obsolete. Dw would be rendered useless and then nothing but 2h would be running around.

NordSwordnBoard · November 2016

WildWilbur wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Why am I FORCED to D/W to be able to run 2 fullsets with a monster set?

ZOS should actually start to prohibit the use of TWO 5pc-sets together. Only the first full set you equip should count for the last bonus.

In the name of build diversity!!??

STEVIL · November 2016

I dont want rules to force build diversity, because, like unicorns in yellow spandex they dont work.

What i wsnt is challenge diversity.

imo the problem starts with the idea some have that all content should be completable with every weapon by above avversge players.

Lets imagine challenge diversity...

Say there are 10 pve end game content packages that matter.
Lets say ok means completion by above average players is 4-6/10, fail is 1-2/10 and good is 9-10/10.

Let DW alone be good at 1 and 2, bad at 9 and 10 and ok at the redt.
Let 2h be good at 3-4, bad at 1 and 5, and ok rest.
Etc.
Idea is no one weapon solves all problems, making the major skill dump to get good at multiple weapons worth it.

This can happen if the types of challenges lend to favor some of the weapon diffs and exploit others.

Simple example, a challenge where lotsa interrupts occur can have major impact on dw flurry or 2h dizzy but most bow or
sw-sh effects are neither cast time or channels with end tick boosts.

Other examples are burning effects in small radius around boss (range better than melee) or bosses with reflects (melee better than range) etc.

AhPook_Is_Here · November 2016

It has to be coming soon it is so racist against magicka.

Nebthet78 · November 2016

Don't you mean, when will 2h weapons count as 2 pieces of an armor set?

Hopefully they do this soon. That or they should add in a wands skill line instead, but you can already hold the staff in one hand.

Some people won't like the idea though. Any thing to keep other players from having an even playing ground. They can't use risk vs reward as an argument against this any more due to the mechanics in the game being changed enough and everyone having damn gap closers.

leepalmer95 · November 2016

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

It has to be coming soon it is so racist against magicka.

Magicka uses dw too..

STEVIL · November 2016

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Don't you mean, when will 2h weapons count as 2 pieces of an armor set?

Hopefully they do this soon. That or they should add in a wands skill line instead, but you can already hold the staff in one hand.

Some people won't like the idea though. Any thing to keep other players from having an even playing ground. They can't use risk vs reward as an argument against this any more due to the mechanics in the game being changed enough and everyone having damn gap closers.

Gap closers not the same as ranged capabity. Quite the opposite, in fact, so dont see any arguments killed by that.

Besides, unless u count dbl click leash not sure abt my dw stamsorc having one.

Waffennacht · November 2016

If 2h counted as 2while staff still counted as one, I'd be very displeased

Danksta · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It shouldn't happen tbh. The only real good thing about the vMA and vDSA 2h weapons is the 1pc weapon damage bonus you get with it. Being able to wear 2 5pc sets AND an undaunted set will make them pretty much useless. Personally I'd stop farming the arenas and just use another 5pc set if it ever happened.

That's a good thing - because then there would be less of an incentive for players to torture themselves doing VMA - which is the most miserable content in this game.

If two-handed builds offered some kind of an innate advantage over one-handed builds I could see why this might be necessary. But as far as I can tell, there really isn't any.

The advantage is burst damage and a fantastic burst heal, which is why the majority of stam users use a 2 hander in Cyrodiil.

Unsent.Soul · November 2016

Even though it's a different game, I like what D3 did for wizards. It would fix the issue at hand, but be a lot of work. If you haven't played D3 wizards get a source (blue ball?) Or tomes (books) as their off hand. Works for set bonuses and adds a new item. 2 hand could have a dagger? For their off hand bonus and bows would use the quiver.

Like I said, I'd assume this would be a lot of work for ESO. I'd love the ability to have 5/5/2 on my Magicka characters instead of being forced to have 2 swords/staff.

mr_wazzabi · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

There are a couple sets you can use that will allow you to use 2 5 piece sets and a monster set even with a 2 handed weapon. Clever Alchemist or Armour Master back buff bar.

This idea is just a cry for what you dont have when you can work around it. Having this extra set bonus is what makes duel wield and s+b unique, take that away and you make the game even more linear and boring.

I completely disagree with this idea and i have every time its been posted.

This change would add to build diversity - and allow players to combine and use more and different sets then would otherwise be the case.

So if anything - this would make the game less linear and less boring. It would certainly give my character more options - and make him more interesting to play.

This does not create diversity. It steals it from Dw and S+B because 2h/bow setups cant have it while only classed as a 1 set bonus. All this would do is make DW and S+B even less appealing.

2H and Bow have monster maelstrom enchants for pvp. You cant complain about those, they are basically 5 piece bonuses themselfs.

Also 2h bow has the best passives and most well rounded snergy when in pvp. It has 2 executes, speed, melee, range, burst and sustained damage.

When you DW or S+B you sacrifice range for that set bonus. You also sacrifice either Rally or Poison Inj to run either (depending if you slot a 2h or bow with it). Theres a lot that 2h/bow gets that you sacrifice to run either dw or s+b.

Giving 2h/bow the extra item slot would increase build diversity for that particular setup yes but it would also homogenize all players to use 2h/bow over dw or s+b.

2h/bow is already very good and giving them this kind of diversity would only harm the balance of the other weapon skill lines.

You already have the ability to slot armour master or clever alchemist which are very good in pvp. Sure its not 100% customization but its good enough considering how powerful 2h/bow already is.

From a magicka point of view, there would be no point duel wielding anymore. Which means all magicka users will use staffs instead. Only S+B would be used for the block reduction. (If you give staffs the same treatment).

2h/bow is already in a fantastic spot, we dont need to push them over the edge. Thats what im getting at.

From a pve point of view i understand. It would be nice if 2h could compete with dw... however for pvp it would ruin the only balanced aspect of the game we have. There are drawbacks for picking up dw/s+b, that extra set bonus makes up for them.

TequilaFire wrote: »

Just let people with 2H equip a dagger as a second weapon even if it is just for show to count as another set piece.
Many staff, sword and bow users carried a dagger in lore.

I actually like this idea a lot. Lower weapon damage of 2h to that of a single weapon. Add a dagger and get equal weapon damage to dw.

Staff users will have equal sd to dw. This does mean that dw magicka builds would be obsolete, which is a big downfall for build diversity.

DragonBound · November 2016

I do not care if something is somehow less effective every weapon has its strengths and cons. I just use whatever feels right to me.

Brutusmax1mus · November 2016

I think the main issue for me regarding diversity is certain classes don't have access to major brutality and sorcery. My stamina Templar must use a 2h for that buff, with out pots of course. Id rather use better pots.

It mainly applies to stamina, as magicka wants a mages guild skill on each bar for the buff, si entropy is fine. At least it is for me on my magicka classes. However, on my stam sorc i can do literally any set up i want without pots.

Waseem · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

Any idea?

hopefully never

STEVIL · November 2016

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I think the main issue for me regarding diversity is certain classes don't have access to major brutality and sorcery. My stamina Templar must use a 2h for that buff, with out pots of course. Id rather use better pots.

It mainly applies to stamina, as magicka wants a mages guild skill on each bar for the buff, si entropy is fine. At least it is for me on my magicka classes. However, on my stam sorc i can do literally any set up i want without pots.

Yes and iirc there are magica types wanting inner light to get the force buff from trap in the fighters guild too.

So my question is this - by thevtime we fix your "but this cant do that" and the next and the next... do we have diversity or just different names on the same sacks of bland?

Doomslinger781 · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Doomslinger781 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Its not confirmed this is happening... but my guess is at the exact same moment its drop rate is halved and its tempers cost is doubled..

That would be fine. The general consensus we saw in other threads is that material cost is a mere after-thought and almost moot point - but yes, it should be accounted for

1) If we're not talking about golding out a weapon, it's of almost no consequence for people.

2) I'm sure all the vMA and vDSA 2H weapon grinders would be fine with a halved drop rate if only those weapons stopped dropping with garbage traits

Consensus?

#1 Another thread i just commented on had folks fretting over gold costs to gear after set chsnges. As i said before, itvserms there are folks who think the costs are significant and doubling them would be more than trivial.

#2 so give a major boost far more than double to the drop rate for the ones they want before halving itand they would be ok... you make my point for me.

So, we can agree, AFTER they change the drop rate issues for weapon traits, they should look at set bonus counts.

#1 That whole issue seems predicated on the assumption that the devs made 2H weapons (and bows and staves) require the same amount of mats as 1H weapons simply because they can't contribute to a 5/5/2 build - I don't think we have any confirmation on that, or that they would increase the mat requirements if they gave a 2-piece set bonus to them. But to me, an adjustable, one-time material cost is no justification or disqualifier for the permanent 2-piece bonus access.

#2 1H should drop twice as much as 2H or bows or staffs - because it takes two of them to fill a bar - and all weapons should drop with better traits - especially vMA and vDSA weapons. Not interested in making your point on this common sense issue.

Nope, I don't agree. Poor traits on weapon drops has been it's own consistent, unanswered, and stagnant problem. There is no reason to sideline the adjustment for 2-piece set bonuses on all two-hand weapons until we see a resolution to some other ancillary, unresolved issue. They should fix them both independently.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · November 2016

Paneross wrote: »

Any idea?

it wont be coming, sorry, we been over this already..cry in your cup and handle it..

STEVIL · November 2016

Doomslinger781 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Doomslinger781 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Its not confirmed this is happening... but my guess is at the exact same moment its drop rate is halved and its tempers cost is doubled..

That would be fine. The general consensus we saw in other threads is that material cost is a mere after-thought and almost moot point - but yes, it should be accounted for

1) If we're not talking about golding out a weapon, it's of almost no consequence for people.

2) I'm sure all the vMA and vDSA 2H weapon grinders would be fine with a halved drop rate if only those weapons stopped dropping with garbage traits

Consensus?

#1 Another thread i just commented on had folks fretting over gold costs to gear after set chsnges. As i said before, itvserms there are folks who think the costs are significant and doubling them would be more than trivial.

#2 so give a major boost far more than double to the drop rate for the ones they want before halving itand they would be ok... you make my point for me.

So, we can agree, AFTER they change the drop rate issues for weapon traits, they should look at set bonus counts.

#1 That whole issue seems predicated on the assumption that the devs made 2H weapons (and bows and staves) require the same amount of mats as 1H weapons simply because they can't contribute to a 5/5/2 build - I don't think we have any confirmation on that, or that they would increase the mat requirements if they gave a 2-piece set bonus to them. But to me, an adjustable, one-time material cost is no justification or disqualifier for the permanent 2-piece bonus access.

#2 1H should drop twice as much as 2H or bows or staffs - because it takes two of them to fill a bar - and all weapons should drop with better traits - especially vMA and vDSA weapons. Not interested in making your point on this common sense issue.

Nope, I don't agree. Poor traits on weapon drops has been it's own consistent, unanswered, and stagnant problem. There is no reason to sideline the adjustment for 2-piece set bonuses on all two-hand weapons until we see a resolution to some other ancillary, unresolved issue. They should fix them both independently.

so as usual it's give us the benefit now and fix the balance later?

Fwiw, currently based on my drops 2h are not Hal as likely as 1h. Not by long shot.

But I betcha is staff users heard their staff drop rates were being cut, they might have a problem.

olsborg · November 2016

I doubt this is happening, but some kinda of middleroad would be neat.

DHale · November 2016

That will never happen and they never said this is happening.... source?

Osteos · November 2016

It should never count as a 2 pc bonus you are in fact holding 1 weapon.

Should each boot count as a pc too, and each glove? How about I have 10 fingers so I should be able to wear 10 rings? Or each ring count as a 5 pc set?

Jeremy · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

There are a couple sets you can use that will allow you to use 2 5 piece sets and a monster set even with a 2 handed weapon. Clever Alchemist or Armour Master back buff bar.

This idea is just a cry for what you dont have when you can work around it. Having this extra set bonus is what makes duel wield and s+b unique, take that away and you make the game even more linear and boring.

I completely disagree with this idea and i have every time its been posted.

This change would add to build diversity - and allow players to combine and use more and different sets then would otherwise be the case.

So if anything - this would make the game less linear and less boring. It would certainly give my character more options - and make him more interesting to play.

This does not create diversity. It steals it from Dw and S+B because 2h/bow setups cant have it while only classed as a 1 set bonus. All this would do is make DW and S+B even less appealing.

2H and Bow have monster maelstrom enchants for pvp. You cant complain about those, they are basically 5 piece bonuses themselfs.

Also 2h bow has the best passives and most well rounded snergy when in pvp. It has 2 executes, speed, melee, range, burst and sustained damage.

When you DW or S+B you sacrifice range for that set bonus. You also sacrifice either Rally or Poison Inj to run either (depending if you slot a 2h or bow with it). Theres a lot that 2h/bow gets that you sacrifice to run either dw or s+b.

Giving 2h/bow the extra item slot would increase build diversity for that particular setup yes but it would also homogenize all players to use 2h/bow over dw or s+b.

2h/bow is already very good and giving them this kind of diversity would only harm the balance of the other weapon skill lines.

You already have the ability to slot armour master or clever alchemist which are very good in pvp. Sure its not 100% customization but its good enough considering how powerful 2h/bow already is.

From a magicka point of view, there would be no point duel wielding anymore. Which means all magicka users will use staffs instead. Only S+B would be used for the block reduction. (If you give staffs the same treatment).

2h/bow is already in a fantastic spot, we dont need to push them over the edge. Thats what im getting at.

From a pve point of view i understand. It would be nice if 2h could compete with dw... however for pvp it would ruin the only balanced aspect of the game we have. There are drawbacks for picking up dw/s+b, that extra set bonus makes up for them.

PvP is not balanced anyway. It never will be. So I don't support efforts that gimp other players in PvE to try and achieve the unachievable goal of balance in PvP.

You do make a cogent argument as it relates to PvP. But I would prefer they address this issue in a way that does not impede so much into the realm of PvE - because it sucks that two-handed builds cannot make use of the new monster sets without dumping one of their 5-set bonuses. There has to be a better way to make dw/s+b more appealing in PvP, assuming all of what you say is true.

Jeremy · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It shouldn't happen tbh. The only real good thing about the vMA and vDSA 2h weapons is the 1pc weapon damage bonus you get with it. Being able to wear 2 5pc sets AND an undaunted set will make them pretty much useless. Personally I'd stop farming the arenas and just use another 5pc set if it ever happened.

That's a good thing - because then there would be less of an incentive for players to torture themselves doing VMA - which is the most miserable content in this game.

If two-handed builds offered some kind of an innate advantage over one-handed builds I could see why this might be necessary. But as far as I can tell, there really isn't any.

Innate advantage?

Like it taking 8 tempers to gold one 2h greatsword vs 16 for two swords?
Like it taking half the grind time to find one sharpened greatsword of the DOITNOW SET vs two sharpened swords?

So make it take 16 tempers instead of 8 to gold a 2-hander. I would gladly pay that to be able to make use of a monster set. So it must not be much of an advantage.

Doomslinger781 · November 2016

Alright, bows and 2H melee can be strong in pvp. What about pve though? The majority of players never set foot in pvp.

I don't think anyone is asking that we just throw a 2-piece set bonus on all the two-handed weapons with out doing some counter-balancing - i.e.: taking the damage from two-hand weapons down a notch to compensate for the damage they'll get from many of the 5-piece bonuses out there, and perhaps reducing the healing on rally - which I'm sure sounds terrible if you're again not taking into consideration access to all 5-piece bonuses.

You give a little, you take a little, but there is NO WAY they can possibly balance two-hand weapons against every single 5-piece bonus out there, so why not try balancing them with that access?

STEVIL · November 2016

Hint: you don't need to balance 2h wpn against every set bonus. That's a red herring.

You need to balance characters with 2h wpns against characters with two weapons across all the types of content - IE not even just end game pve groups dps only - as some would have you believe.

The test is play/performance and typically play/performance against the best performing and the most popular (where those are different)

Whenever you hear "can't" when it comes to test or compare... it's often slang for something else.