Few Counters to Beams

SanderBuraas · November 2016

In The Elder Scrolls Online, we mainly have six different damage types:

Direct damage: can be blocked and dodged, melee requires close range and projectiles can be reflected.
Channeled direct damage: only one in the game, can be blocked, dodged, reflected and interrupted.
Damage over time: can be cleansed.
Channeled damage over time: can be cleansed and interrupted, except for Soul Strike, which can be blocked but not interrupted.
Area of effect: can be blocked, requires relatively close range.
Ground area of effect: can be moved out of.

As you can see, all the damage types have proper counters. Though, users of channeled damage over time abilities are never punished for using them. When you use a projectile ability, you have to make sure the target has not used a reflect ability, not to mention how it can be roll dodged. Damage over time abilities can easily be cleansed, forcing you to apply all of them again. If you cleanse or interrupt – which requires you to get in close range – Radiant Destruction, the caster can simply use it again. Just like projectiles can be reflected, there should be a way to punish the caster of a beam. For example: a skill that causes beams to heal the target or damage the caster.

Now, on to a certain ultimate that is currently very strong. I use it on my archer build, even when I gank.

(Source)

Soul Strike is a low-cost channeled damage over time ultimate that can be blocked but not interrupted. As beams can not be dodged or reflected, you are forced to take this damage. If you block, your stamina is drained by an insane amount – unless you run a block build. You mostly also have heal during the channel. Victims of the ultimate are punished regardless, be it drained of resources or their health.

Since projectiles can be countered in so many ways, channeled damage over time should not be as reliable as it is now.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · November 2016

Oh look another Nerf Thread, there is a way to negate soul assault, it's called Block and then the spell does barley any damage.

ArchMikem · November 2016

Another one of these.

Yeah I can understand there are people that get destroyed by this ultimate, but that still doesn't change the fact that I have before used this Ultimate on a low health player, and instead of watching his health bar drain, I saw it go straight to full. It was like I was healing the guy myself.

Kartalin · November 2016

Block, line of sight, cloak for nightblades. There are options besides OMGNURFIT.

SublimeSparo · November 2016

I agree nerf Incap.

Also what category do endless fury and curse fall under? Endless fury is ranged direct damage (if target in execute range) and cannot be reflected. Curse is a ranged delayed aoe damage that cannot be blocked (not sure about purge)

SanderBuraas · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look another Nerf Thread, there is a way to negate soul assault, it's called Block and then the spell does barley any damage.

Read the thread properly. You can block Soul Strike, but it will drain your stamina – especially considering the low cost of the ultimate.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Another one of these.

Yeah I can understand there are people that get destroyed by this ultimate, but that still doesn't change the fact that I have before used this Ultimate on a low health player, and instead of watching his health bar drain, I saw it go straight to full. It was like I was healing the guy myself.

I use the ultimate myself. It is so much better than any other ultimate I have used, mostly because it can not be dodged.

Kartalin wrote: »

Block, line of sight, cloak for nightblades. There are options besides OMGNURFIT.

Line of sight is not relevant, as it is completely reliant on your surroundings. You can not stealth or cloak during the channel of Soul Strike.

Darethran · November 2016

It's a spell-thing, aye? Then ya should be able to roll out of it. Should.

Since we can't, ZOS has gone and messed up.

SanderBuraas · November 2016

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I agree nerf Incap.

Also what category do endless fury and curse fall under? Endless fury is ranged direct damage (if target in execute range) and cannot be reflected. Curse is a ranged delayed aoe damage that cannot be blocked (not sure about purge)

Yes, there are a few special cases. Decided not to list them all since it would be unnecessary.

GreenSoup2HoT · November 2016

I personally have no issues with this ability as a nightblade. I can cloak it after two seconds. If i happen to be fighting a Magblade who marks me well... i have soul siphon back bar just in case for that emergency burst heal (most underused ultimate in pvp imo). Soul Siphon works wonders against EotS as well.

I still have issues with Radiant Destruction since the first tick of damage is so darn fast. Wish it executed at 25% but thats like asking for pigs to fly. To many forumplars for this change to even be considered.

Some of these balance changes are baffling but we all learn to adjust and deal with it. Just go with the flow and try to have fun. When you die in pvp dont pull your hair out, reset and get your revenge!

ArchMikem · November 2016

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I agree nerf Incap.

Also what category do endless fury and curse fall under? Endless fury is ranged direct damage (if target in execute range) and cannot be reflected. Curse is a ranged delayed aoe damage that cannot be blocked (not sure about purge)

I thought Curse's damage can be mitigated through blocking. Not to mention it's considered a harmful effect and can be purged if you do it before the detonation.

Mojmir · November 2016

FriedEggSandwich · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I agree nerf Incap.

Also what category do endless fury and curse fall under? Endless fury is ranged direct damage (if target in execute range) and cannot be reflected. Curse is a ranged delayed aoe damage that cannot be blocked (not sure about purge)

I thought Curse's damage can be mitigated through blocking. Not to mention it's considered a harmful effect and can be purged if you do it before the detonation.

One Tamriel patch buffed curse to make it unblockable, I think it can still be purged though.

LeeroyGankins · November 2016

bruh u need to git gud

acw37162 · November 2016

Shields

Line of sight

Block (provided you have stamina)

Three counters.

SublimeSparo · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I agree nerf Incap.

Also what category do endless fury and curse fall under? Endless fury is ranged direct damage (if target in execute range) and cannot be reflected. Curse is a ranged delayed aoe damage that cannot be blocked (not sure about purge)

I thought Curse's damage can be mitigated through blocking. Not to mention it's considered a harmful effect and can be purged if you do it before the detonation.

Changed in 1T, no longer blockable. Afaik

SanderBuraas · November 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Please do explain what is so unbearable about the thread.

LeeroyGankins wrote: »

bruh u need to git gud

If you wish to duel, I am happy to oblige.

acw37162 wrote: »

Shields

Line of sight

Block (provided you have stamina)

Three counters.

Read the thread again. By shields, do you mean damage shields? You need at least four Hardened Wards to negate the damage, not to mention the possibility of dots. Line of sight is irrelevant. Magicka users can not afford to block, especially with the low ultimate cost, and stamina builds need to heal as well as block – which consumes a lot of stamina.

BRogueNZ · November 2016

aggressive defense.. gap close and smack asap. They then have to decide to keep beaming or defend themselves, which this ult is actually useful for too because it throws the decision to the aggressor.

We have the tools It's very hard to counter everything unless you go tank-healer and/or run so much utility you're not that much of a threat. So I guess you counter what you are most vulnerable too and accept your fate when faced with something else if you are a DD dishing out your own brand of chedder.

I'll add that if your in LA, dampen magic is love... but who wears LA these days aye

FriedEggSandwich · November 2016

Smepic wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Please do explain what is so unbearable about the thread.

LeeroyGankins wrote: »

bruh u need to git gud

If you wish to duel, I am happy to oblige.

acw37162 wrote: »

Shields

Line of sight

Block (provided you have stamina)

Three counters.

Read the thread again. By shields, do you mean damage shields? You need at least four Hardened Wards to negate the damage, not to mention the possibility of dots. Line of sight is irrelevant. Magicka users can not afford to block, especially with the low ultimate cost, and stamina builds need to heal as well as block – which consumes a lot of stamina.

I only need 2x hardened ward to negate a soul assault. I will admit that this ulti is controversial; idk why it has so few counters when my sorc ultis have so many counters, but at the end of the day it is an ulti and does have counters, albeit very few. RD though has plenty of counters including crushing shock, crystal frags, defensive rune, cloak or any ward. It's fine in this meta.

Rather than see soul assault get more counters I would rather see other ultis get fewer counters, like my atronach, or overload. All ultis should be blockable imo and atm EotS isn't, so soul assault has more counters than EotS.

I'm assuming a lot here but I'm gonna suggest you put more cp into ele defender and thick skinned and less into bastion. Reduced damage from cp applies to your ward too, so if you have 15% reduced magic/elemental damage from ele def then your wards will also take 15% less magic/elemental damage.

Sigma957 · November 2016

I have never killed anyone using soul assault even if it is a cheap ult, meteor does far more damage but even that can be blocked to do f all.

BRogueNZ · November 2016

Sigma957 wrote: »

I have never killed anyone using soul assault even if it is a cheap ult, meteor does far more damage but even that can be blocked to do f all.

Used as an execute and its awesome, you don't need to stand there beaming full duration, i hate myself when I do that or use radiant above 50% deserve the slapping I get.

It also doesn't drain radiant's (oppression) pool of magicka . I think most Templars forget (and i do) that if you are at 10% magicka its not going to be hitting as hard as potentially could so SA is actually really good there, and it gives the option of an execute on both bars. just my 5c

acw37162 · November 2016

Smepic wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Please do explain what is so unbearable about the thread.

LeeroyGankins wrote: »

bruh u need to git gud

If you wish to duel, I am happy to oblige.

acw37162 wrote: »

Shields

Line of sightl

Block (provided you have stamina)

Three counters.

Read the thread again. By shields, do you mean damage shields? You need at least four Hardened Wards to negate the damage, not to mention the possibility of dots. Line of sight is irrelevant. Magicka users can not afford to block, especially with the low ultimate cost, and stamina builds need to heal as well as block – which consumes a lot of stamina.

Shields, yes buy you time to react.

Stamina, yeah since beams are a direct counter to roll dodging and blocking, then yeah.

If you consider line of sight irrevelant you should evaluate a few things.

I read the thread through the first time but thanks for the passive aggressive insult.

KingYogi415 · November 2016

Gap close. bash.

Soooo hard.

Rataroto · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Block, line of sight, cloak for nightblades. There are options besides OMGNURFIT.

can't stealth while being soul assaulted, and the caster gets cc imunity

THEDKEXPERIENCE · November 2016

It's been awhile!

Anyway, yes, these things are powerful. I use them frequently. My main characters name is even Yugot The Beam for maximum death recap rage trolling effect. There is no doubt I'm one of the single worst offenders of these crimes across all platforms. Guilty as charged.

That said, good players just laugh them off.

Soul Assault might as well be called "Magic Shotgun Newb Burner". If you die to it, sorry to break it to you, you're not actually good at dueling. I only use it because it's a good way to destroy people who think proc-proc-proc means they are talented.

Radiant Oppression, however, is the single most dominant skill in the entire game when in the right hands. Even then though its main utility is to be a roaming Cyrodiil death cannon. It's not even all that useful in duels because good duelers usually have vigor running (or something similar).

People get bent out of shape about it because the death recaps show a bazillion damage when often a light attack would have killed them. Then there are those who get mad that it starts to scale at 50% even though it mostly tickles until 20%. There are those who don't like it's range, even though archers have more. Lastky there are the guys who say, "but when 4 magplars hit me it's insta-death" which is true but 4 naked players punching you would give the same result.

Let us also not forget that casting it keeps the offender completely open to attacks and draws a bright big line on the battlefield to them screaming KILL THIS GUY FIRST! Let's also not forget that magplars are usually healers so you really don't understand an angry Zerg's full wrath until you've been one. Entire groups will stop what they are doing to kill this one person quite often.

So to summarize: very strong, but not impossible to deal with, and leaves the perpetrator with a huge glowing line right to them for the Zerg to know who to kill first. We also stink in most one on one situations unless you did something stupid allowing me to instantly melt you with two moves after rope-a-doping you into using all your resources.

leepalmer95 · November 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Gap close. bash.

Soooo hard.

you can't bash anymore, if your going to be sarcastic at least know what your talking about.

Soul assault is strong if you use it right, mine has like a 70k tooltip on my sorc

Curse + endless + soul assault ends anything in medium.

AMadAussie · November 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Gap close. bash.
Soooo hard.

You can't bash interrupt soul strike or its morphs.
You'd know that if you had a clue or read the OP.
But reading for you is obviously soooo hard.

BRogueNZ · November 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

sniped

lethal arrow, poison injection spam life becomes snipes, CC and gap closure from every compass bearing and probably couple of destro ults and siege

idk · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look another Nerf Thread, there is a way to negate soul assault, it's called Block and then the spell does barley any damage.

OP forgets a commonly used tactic to defend oneself in PvP. LoS, break it and that beam becomes virtually useless.

OP later states LoS is irrelevant. How is a fabulous defense irrelevant?

SanderBuraas · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look another Nerf Thread, there is a way to negate soul assault, it's called Block and then the spell does barley any damage.

OP forgets a commonly used tactic to defend oneself in PvP. LoS, break it and that beam becomes virtually useless.

Line of sight is irrelevant. A target can not be hit with a targeted ability if they are out of los – which makes it a counter to all abilities.

leepalmer95 · November 2016

Wish i could bring a tree with me so when i'm hit by that 70% snare i can get to LoS.

Unfortunately 90% of the time that isn't the case, soul assault is now just another zerging tool.

NBrookus · November 2016

Smepic wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Please do explain what is so unbearable about the thread.

LeeroyGankins wrote: »

bruh u need to git gud

If you wish to duel, I am happy to oblige.

acw37162 wrote: »

Shields

Line of sight

Block (provided you have stamina)

Three counters.

Read the thread again. By shields, do you mean damage shields? You need at least four Hardened Wards to negate the damage, not to mention the possibility of dots. Line of sight is irrelevant. Magicka users can not afford to block, especially with the low ultimate cost, and stamina builds need to heal as well as block – which consumes a lot of stamina.

My magicka DK hasn't died to a Soul Assault yet. Block and a couple of igneous shields is all that is needed. Or ducking behind a rock. Soul Assault has the potential to be very powerful when properly timed. Which, IMO, is how a powerful skill should be.

Radiant is a lot more deadly because it can be spammed and the frequency of packs of templars spamming it all over the place hoping someone else gets your health low.