IS a bow Build Pointless

shugg · August 2016

In my eyes what bow needs is the base weapon damage increased to 2h level, but decrease snipe damage to balance it or it will be too op from stealth, next grant the other morph of leathal arrow to grant empower and last make the fighters guild abity that reduces cost of fighters guild abilites grant brutality, with this change pve dps will increase while pvp should be the same.

MrBrandon · August 2016

shugg wrote: »

In my eyes what bow needs is the base weapon damage increased to 2h level, but decrease snipe damage to balance it or it will be too op from stealth, next grant the other morph of leathal arrow to grant empower and last make the fighters guild abity that reduces cost of fighters guild abilites grant brutality, with this change pve dps will increase while pvp should be the same.

They need to move momentum from 2H to fighters guild.

shugg · August 2016

But thats still not enough, i run brutality pots but feel bow is still lacking in sustainable dps thats why I suggest the weapon damage increase

Asardes · August 2016

Snipe it's not supposed to be spam-able. It's expensive and slow to cast which leaves you exposed. It's meant to be an opener for the minor fracture de-buff and the target marking. Using two poison abilities like poison injection and arrow spay also doesn't make sense because poisoned status doesn't stack. They are meant to be used interchangeably - first for single target and 2nd for multiples. Endless hail is a very good AoE DoT if used properly. There is also hawk eye passive that allows you to enhance all those abilities by spamming light attacks between them. So a proper rotation must include a few of those. A proper DPS build uses bow skills for DoT, while bursting with 2W or 2H. Ideally you should keep the target de-buffed with snipe, poisoned with injection and under hail, then change bar and burst it with rending slashes or WB (you can put carve for even more Dot) and throw in a flawless from time to time into the mix. In PvP snipe, inject, gap close (with critical rush, stampede, ambush) then hit hard (dizzying swing, heavy attack) and execute (executioner, killer's blade) works best.

shugg · August 2016

Actualy i use snipe and weave in light attacks for pve, no point with the fracture debuff as tank gives it, my rotation is spectral bow debuff,poison arrow, LA,snipe,LA,snipe...repeat till bow proc and then rebuff

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2016

shugg wrote: »

Actualy i use snipe and weave in light attacks for pve, no point with the fracture debuff as tank gives it, my rotation is spectral bow debuff,poison arrow, LA,snipe,LA,snipe...repeat till bow proc and then rebuff

The only tank that can give that debuff is a templar....minor Fracture comes from 2 things in this game - Templar Power of the LIGHT and focused aim...

Vythri · August 2016

shugg wrote: »

In my eyes what bow needs is the base weapon damage increased to 2h level, but decrease snipe damage to balance it or it will be too op from stealth, next grant the other morph of leathal arrow to grant empower and last make the fighters guild abity that reduces cost of fighters guild abilites grant brutality, with this change pve dps will increase while pvp should be the same.

But PvE DPS isn't really an issue. You can pull good DPS in PvE. It's in PvP that bow is an issue. Even then, damage in PvP isn't a problem with bow. Trust me... I know. It's just that you're relegated to being a ganker, and that's it. I'd prefer to not be pigeon holed into that one single role.

Like I said before in this thread, the issue with bow isn't damage, it's the all of the other things that it's lacking.

Vythri · August 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Snipe it's not supposed to be spam-able. It's expensive and slow to cast which leaves you exposed. It's meant to be an opener for the minor fracture de-buff and the target marking.

Yeah, I get that, but right now it's the only move we have to do damage from range that's comparable in any way to Dizzying Swing. You can cast it and then light attack to weave it. What else do you suggest we weave with?

Asardes wrote: »

Using two poison abilities like poison injection and arrow spay also doesn't make sense because poisoned status doesn't stack. They are meant to be used interchangeably - first for single target and 2nd for multiples.

They actually do stack. They are separate DoTs. The poison status effect wont obviously though.

Asardes wrote: »

Endless hail is a very good AoE DoT if used properly.

Yeah, for PvE. Good luck getting anybody to stand in it in PvP.

Asardes wrote: »

There is also hawk eye passive that allows you to enhance all those abilities by spamming light attacks between them. So a proper rotation must include a few of those.

And that was a great addition that ZOS put in a couple patches ago. I'd like the duration to be a bit longer though, and proc off of all bow attacks, not just light and heavy, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.

Asardes wrote: »

A proper DPS build uses bow skills for DoT, while bursting with 2W or 2H. Ideally you should keep the target de-buffed with snipe, poisoned with injection and under hail, then change bar and burst it with rending slashes or WB (you can put carve for even more Dot) and throw in a flawless from time to time into the mix. In PvP snipe, inject, gap close (with critical rush, stampede, ambush) then hit hard (dizzying swing, heavy attack) and execute (executioner, killer's blade) works best.

And therein lies the problem for a pure bow build. Thanks for admitting it.

QuebraRegra · August 2016

Needs a new RANGER class, or a "morph" class where bow skills and class skills would synergize with the bow, but not provide advantage with other weapons.

Should a class "specialization" system be introduced to add to build diversity?

Vythri · August 2016

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Needs a new RANGER class, or a "morph" class where bow skills and class skills would synergize with the bow, but not provide advantage with other weapons.

Should a class "specialization" system be introduced to add to build diversity?

Anything that promotes build diversity should be explored at the very least. Too many people are running around with the same skills and same gear. That's one of the reasons why being a primary bow user appeals to me. It's not easy, but I've made it work well enough. A lot needs to be done to fix it and make it balanced though.

There also should be a ZOS employee responsible for being the advocate of each of the major gameplay styles to the devs, but that's another discussion for another thread.

Autolycus · August 2016

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Needs a new RANGER class, or a "morph" class where bow skills and class skills would synergize with the bow, but not provide advantage with other weapons.

Should a class "specialization" system be introduced to add to build diversity?

I have given my two cents on the use of bow in practical settings already on this thread, and I don't want to stray too far from the original topic, but my personal opinion is one that favors specializations. I have no idea how it would be implemented or the constraints it may impose, but I do really fancy the idea of being able to fully specialize.

Additionally, it would be really quite beneficial for those of us who run multiple specs on a single character, whether that be for a tank who also does dps, or for someone who simply prefers to both pve and pvp in different setups. I would place special emphasis on the allocation of CP as it pertains to this topic, because (at least in my case) CP allocation is quite different for my pvp setup vs. pve.

MrBrandon · August 2016

shugg wrote: »

But thats still not enough, i run brutality pots but feel bow is still lacking in sustainable dps thats why I suggest the weapon damage increase

My weapon damage is 5000 with my bow and 5700 with my daggers. Gets higher when I'm in combat.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

MrBrandon wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

But thats still not enough, i run brutality pots but feel bow is still lacking in sustainable dps thats why I suggest the weapon damage increase

My weapon damage is 5000 with my bow and 5700 with my daggers. Gets higher when I'm in combat.

CE?

Anti_Virus · August 2016

MrBrandon wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

But thats still not enough, i run brutality pots but feel bow is still lacking in sustainable dps thats why I suggest the weapon damage increase

My weapon damage is 5000 with my bow and 5700 with my daggers. Gets higher when I'm in combat.

Wow how did you do that?

Curtdogg47 · August 2016

Anti_Virus wrote: »

MrBrandon wrote: »

shugg wrote: »

But thats still not enough, i run brutality pots but feel bow is still lacking in sustainable dps thats why I suggest the weapon damage increase

My weapon damage is 5000 with my bow and 5700 with my daggers. Gets higher when I'm in combat.

Wow how did you do that?

Yes please share!

altemriel · August 2016

DaMastodon wrote: »

What about endless hail and bombard spam? Bombard roots them while hail nukes them. And poison injection plus snipe should be good for boss fights.

Well bombard roots only the regular NPCs, not the bosses and not the stronger ones unfortunatelly (if I understood it right)

IlCanis_LupuslI · November 2016

Arora wrote: »

So, I decided to take a break from duel wield and play around with bow, I was really liking the combo, soloing was easier then ever. Walked into a dungeon and I suck. Is it possible to build a bow build that is capable of actually doing something in a dungeon

Its a bit more complicated then bombard spamm m8.
First,try out Spriggans thorn and hawks eye that Works out best for me. My skillung is Lethal arrow, relentless Fokus, siphoning attacks, bombard, lightweight beast trap,
Toxic barrage
2nd bar
Poison injection , shadow cloak for when i get to many adds on me, resolving vigor, endless hail, razor caltrops, Shooting Star

My rotation is relentless focus, siphoning attacks, poison injection, endless hail, caltrops, lightweight beast trap, toxic barrage,
light attack, lethal arrow, light attack (repeat till endless hail wears out)
Relentless focus, siphoning attacks, poison injection, endless hail, lightweight beast trap,
Light attack, lethal arrow, light attack, repeat till endless hail wears out,
And so on and so forth, make shure the caltrops are down all the time you need to restock them every 3rd rotation or so.

Thief mundus stone

This works with me i haven't done a dps test yet but the damage I hammer out feels pretty good, just make shure you always stay as far away from the boss as possible to increase the damage.

IlCanis_LupuslI · November 2016

Usually my Lethal arrows crit for 31k with this setup without wh...

AzuraKin · November 2016

bow is pvp weapon, if you look at the effects they are all good against players, immobile, heal debuff, high damage long range attack.

Stannum · November 2016

ok my solution for PvE main bow build was to stack crit damage it does pretty good overall dps and its completely ranged DPS. But I have to use 2h on off bar for momenum buff. As i focused on crits i used Khajiit NB full med 5NM+5briar and got ~ 80% crit chance on main bar w\o Thief mundus (i use shadow and invest lots of CP in crit dmg). Crit rate provides briar proc almost on CD and permanent NM debuff.
On off bar i use caltrops, and lw trap, and buffs f momentum, mark, siphoning attacks (it solves all problems with stam as all jewelry is enchanted for weapon dmg). The main bar PI, hunter, barrage, acid spray, rel focus and ballista. So you're putting DoTs weaving with bow lights and focus discharge with assasing will on bosses or spamming spray on trash mobs.

akl77 · November 2016

How about bow for aoe and ranged attack, melee use biting jabs, that's still bow equipped.

Baconlad · November 2016

ALL they have to do to buff two hander and bow in PVE is allow them to have two set bonuses. if they really want to bring it even more inline with DW then they need to fix some of the passives, like the one that increases damage stacking 3 times when you light attack, they need to change that to say a ten stack, and make it last much longer like ten seconds. this would make snipe from stealth in PVP not get stronger but will make PVE snipe spam (and all other bow skills) much stronger....whish is very needed, and it would make it so that they don't have to accually increase the bow damage upfront, just the passive

Kutsuu · November 2016

Have been hearing good things about this build and rotation. Might give it a shot:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-bo-bo-stamblade-pve-guide/

deevoh1991 · November 2016

I'm a magic sorc and really wanna try bows
I think poisoned arrow spray with a viper set and some damage buffs can take out crowds pretty past
And that poison morph ult is pretty strong against bosses

Stannum · November 2016

Deevo191 wrote: »

I'm a magic sorc and really wanna try bows
I think poisoned arrow spray with a viper set and some damage buffs can take out crowds pretty past
And that poison morph ult is pretty strong against bosses

viper? it proc on melee (or poison glyph enchant).
As for poison morph of bow ulti may be it will be ok for Stam DK in morag tong set, but other ways ballista looks better.

Autolycus · November 2016

A guildmate of mine used to main a bow primary (used DW for execute phase only) and just a couple of days ago wanted to check it out to see if it's still viable. He was able to pull 35k with self buffs on Blood Spawn, but he did have Pierce Armor from the tank (and nothing else that he couldn't provide himself). So I'd say no, it's not pointless. If you do it right a bow primary can still be a valuable asset for trials and dungeons.

Snit · November 2016

A pure bow build is pointless in PvE, at least in any challenging content. Bow does, however, have a place in endgame PvE. Most good stamina DPS builds backbar bow for Endless Hail and Poison Injection. But they spend the vast majority of fights on the Dual-Wield frontbar. The bow is for DoT's.

In PvP, a bow-based gank build can be dangerous with the right build. Due to the flight time of Snipe, you can time a burst so that several things all seem to happen at once for your target.

But, please, don't queue for veteran dungeons as an archer. You may still succeed, but mostly because the rest of the group is carrying you

Snit · November 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

A guildmate of mine used to main a bow primary (used DW for execute phase only) and just a couple of days ago wanted to check it out to see if it's still viable. He was able to pull 35k with self buffs

I suspect two things are true here:

1) He has a VMA bow
2) That same friend can do 50k with his DW/ Bow setup

Bow has nothing like the ceiling that DW does.

Vythri · November 2016

altemriel wrote: »

DaMastodon wrote: »

What about endless hail and bombard spam? Bombard roots them while hail nukes them. And poison injection plus snipe should be good for boss fights.

Well bombard roots only the regular NPCs, not the bosses and not the stronger ones unfortunatelly (if I understood it right)

And only roots them once, as well as not even rooting the ones that already are off balance in some way. So if anybody runs caltrops, Bombard is almost useless. Better off using Acid Spray.

IlCanis_LupuslI · November 2016

Snit wrote: »

A pure bow build is pointless in PvE, at least in any challenging content. Bow does, however, have a place in endgame PvE. Most good stamina DPS builds backbar bow for Endless Hail and Poison Injection. But they spend the vast majority of fights on the Dual-Wield frontbar. The bow is for DoT's.

In PvP, a bow-based gank build can be dangerous with the right build. Due to the flight time of Snipe, you can time a burst so that several things all seem to happen at once for your target.

But, please, don't queue for veteran dungeons as an archer. You may still succeed, but mostly because the rest of the group is carrying you

Wellllll i just did a Dps test on Bloodspawn(3 mill health)
With self buffs only(no warhorn, spellpower, etc) and clocked in at 27.6k dps.... And i dont have the best setup im aiming for either.... If the tank is on top and keeps the boss in my caltrops definetly no problems with a bow build.....