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This game makes me hate seeing other players
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Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Food for thought.
Multiplayer games are played for competition with other players.IrishGirlGamer wrote: »FoolishHuman wrote: »They aren't your nodes! They are free to all. If you cant kill the mob quick enough then im afraid its tough **** if someone comes along and grabs it.
But that is exactly the point. Why design it in a way that breeds conflict. Just make it so that there is no fighting over who got there first and all these problems and frustrations go away.
While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, as it applies to the problem in the game, I disagree that the problem lies at the doorstep of Zenimax. Let me explain, using an example that happened to me this very morning.
I work at a museum. Today a large family group came in, including several parents and a number of children. We have an area that is specifically for children, and includes a number of small interactive engagement exhibits. One is a very popular, a computer that allows children to color shapes on a page, then find famous artworks that resemble their colors and shapes.
Two children wanted to use the computer at the same time. One was older, and pushy, and began to force the other children away, not physically but just because he was bigger. Eventually one of the parents came over to me and said, "You really need a second computer."
What? We need to spend our money (which is limited, thank you very much) on a second exhibit because you can't discipline your children?? Seriously? Now teaching your children to share is MY responsibility?
Could the game design be better? Oh yes, on any number of levels. Is this one of them? Meh. I'm not so sure.
The problem is with people, not the node design. The problem is with people, not the grouping tool. The problem is with people. Period.
Could Zenimax design their game around poor human behavior? Maybe. I'm not sure it's requirement though. Their answer to your issue with nodes is to put them everywhere!!! Seriously, I gathered 100 ore in about twenty minutes last night during the peak hours. And for the weekend, they've very clearly shortened the respawn time. That was Zenimax's design answer to your issue. Could it be better? Again, I don't see the need.
Maybe because I don't feel raising other people's kids is Zenimax's responsibility.
Actually, that's a great argument for why shared resources are essential. That kid on the computer had his parents around to discipline him (I hope they did). Even if they weren't the other kids would learn he's a bully and shun him from their group activities if he continued. His parents aren't around when he's being a prat in ESO though, and since there is no way his poor behaviour can negatively affect him in ESO, and group exp is shared organically, he's essentially encouraged to continue doing it.
Rude players profit, polite players suffer. The system needs some work.Edited by Darkstorne on November 19, 2016 6:23PM3 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is just another fight between the "Why can't people just be nice?" Crowd and the other crowd...
5 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Is this just a whine fest for resources and such. All I got to say it is bad luck to come across another player doing the same thing but if they follow u everywhere just mount quickie out before the player notice or hide in a corner to let them get bored and move on. But mostly teleport to another wayshirne and farm. Just stop complaining about players taking ur stuff. It's just bad luck to encounter another player. This game has a couple different server zones.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FortheloveofKrist wrote: »This is just another fight between the "Why can't people just be nice?" Crowd and the other crowd...
Not really. It's more like a fight between whatwver way it's now done is the way it should be done forever and the other more creative thinking crowd
1 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭.IrishGirlGamer wrote: »FoolishHuman wrote: »They aren't your nodes! They are free to all. If you cant kill the mob quick enough then im afraid its tough **** if someone comes along and grabs it.
But that is exactly the point. Why design it in a way that breeds conflict. Just make it so that there is no fighting over who got there first and all these problems and frustrations go away.
While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, as it applies to the problem in the game, I disagree that the problem lies at the doorstep of Zenimax. Let me explain, using an example that happened to me this very morning.
I work at a museum. Today a large family group came in, including several parents and a number of children. We have an area that is specifically for children, and includes a number of small interactive engagement exhibits. One is a very popular, a computer that allows children to color shapes on a page, then find famous artworks that resemble their colors and shapes.
Two children wanted to use the computer at the same time. One was older, and pushy, and began to force the other children away, not physically but just because he was bigger. Eventually one of the parents came over to me and said, "You really need a second computer."
What? We need to spend our money (which is limited, thank you very much) on a second exhibit because you can't discipline your children?? Seriously? Now teaching your children to share is MY responsibility?
Could the game design be better? Oh yes, on any number of levels. Is this one of them? Meh. I'm not so sure.
The problem is with people, not the node design. The problem is with people, not the grouping tool. The problem is with people. Period.
Could Zenimax design their game around poor human behavior? Maybe. I'm not sure it's requirement though. Their answer to your issue with nodes is to put them everywhere!!! Seriously, I gathered 100 ore in about twenty minutes last night during the peak hours. And for the weekend, they've very clearly shortened the respawn time. That was Zenimax's design answer to your issue. Could it be better? Again, I don't see the need.
Maybe because I don't feel raising other people's kids is Zenimax's responsibility.
Not really a fan of analogies but let's try it:
You work for the museum? Is it your responsibility to ensure a safe/fun environment for your visitors?
Would you get rid of sharp edges so they don't hurt themselves or tell them it's not your fault they don't watch themselves?
Do you make sure the visitors can't touch every exhibit? Because surely they should be civilized enough not to touch old artifacts? Not the museums responsibility to teach them manners, right?
If your visitor numbers drop and someone reads feedback on your website that parents don't want to go there because there is only one computer ...
If people start fighting in the museum, not your responsibility? I guess no need for those metal detectors in schools, right?
Yes, I absolutely agree with you that people have to take responsibility for their own actions, no doubt. But don't ignore the fact that game design does exactly that, create fun/safe environments.
Think corpse looting, think trading, heck best example is they did not go forward with the crime design here.
Is it a big problem? I don't know. But compared to traditional MMO's thanks to One Tamriel I think what we are dealing with is that it's spread over the complete map(s). It's not contained to certain areas or levels - kind of a unique problem.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett3 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭sneakymitchell wrote: »Is this just a whine fest for resources and such. All I got to say it is bad luck to come across another player doing the same thing but if they follow u everywhere just mount quickie out before the player notice or hide in a corner to let them get bored and move on. But mostly teleport to another wayshirne and farm. Just stop complaining about players taking ur stuff. It's just bad luck to encounter another player. This game has a couple different server zones.
It's bad luck to encounter another player. All that needs to be said.2 -
Prabooo✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »One suggestion is to go play late at night when most people are alseep. You will be mostly just by yourself then.
^ This ^
Adaptation is key to evolution.
5 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.1 -
raidentenshu_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?
Why do you think that you are entitled of all of these? You do not. If you don't get there first then it does not belong to you it belongs to the person that reached it first. It isn't called stealing either.
Stop being so salty and get there faster. Please get rid of this entitlement mentality of thinking that everything belongs to you and not other players.2 -
Rouven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »One suggestion is to go play late at night when most people are alseep. You will be mostly just by yourself then.
^ This ^
Adaptation is key to evolution.
And the games that adapt the best will be successful.Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. ~ Terry Pratchett0 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.Edited by Iselin on November 19, 2016 7:09PM6 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here 2 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
1 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
having an unlimited amount of millet, carrots, rice & other provisioning ingredients doesnt effect balance though
whereas having an unlimited amout of certain alchemical ingrediets, wax, tempering alloys & rosin would
just as having easier access to the set pieces that can drop in chests would
its all well and good asking for quality of life changes but people need to look at the bigger picture,
balance is an issue in this game, a far more important issue than someone 'stealing' a chest, and the devs are working on improving the balance, and righly so.1 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭puffytheslayer wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
having an unlimited amount of millet, carrots, rice & other provisioning ingredients doesnt effect balance though
whereas having an unlimited amout of certain alchemical ingrediets, wax, tempering alloys & rosin would
just as having easier access to the set pieces that can drop in chests would
its all well and good asking for quality of life changes but people need to look at the bigger picture,
balance is an issue in this game, a far more important issue than someone 'stealing' a chest, and the devs are working on improving the balance, and righly so.
Easily dealt with by having less spawns if they're instanced. More than one way to skin a Khajiit.3 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pre One Tamriel, you really had to be lucky to run into another player in the overworld.
Post One Tamriel, the damn continent is flooded with players, and all they want to do is Duel.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?
GW2 managed to do it, don't see why ESO couldn't either...I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4503 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭puffytheslayer wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
having an unlimited amount of millet, carrots, rice & other provisioning ingredients doesnt effect balance though
whereas having an unlimited amout of certain alchemical ingrediets, wax, tempering alloys & rosin would
just as having easier access to the set pieces that can drop in chests would
its all well and good asking for quality of life changes but people need to look at the bigger picture,
balance is an issue in this game, a far more important issue than someone 'stealing' a chest, and the devs are working on improving the balance, and righly so.
Easily dealt with by having less spawns if they're instanced. More than one way to skin a Khajiit.
as i have said before in this thread the problem is not with the system that is currently in use, but with the players, now we cant control what other players do, but its unreasonable to ask zos to divert resources to counter them when there are far more important things about the game that need to be addressed.
you do not as the OP claimed originally need to avoid the other players in this game, you just need to accept that occasionally some of those players (a really, really, really small amount) that you come across will be arse holes and either find a way to be an arse hole right back, move to a different part of the zone, move to a different zone or forget about it!
0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU5 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭puffytheslayer wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
having an unlimited amount of millet, carrots, rice & other provisioning ingredients doesnt effect balance though
whereas having an unlimited amout of certain alchemical ingrediets, wax, tempering alloys & rosin would
just as having easier access to the set pieces that can drop in chests would
its all well and good asking for quality of life changes but people need to look at the bigger picture,
balance is an issue in this game, a far more important issue than someone 'stealing' a chest, and the devs are working on improving the balance, and righly so.
Easily dealt with by having less spawns if they're instanced. More than one way to skin a Khajiit.
as i have said before in this thread the problem is not with the system that is currently in use, but with the players, now we cant control what other players do, but its unreasonable to ask zos to divert resources to counter them when there are far more important things about the game that need to be addressed.
you do not as the OP claimed originally need to avoid the other players in this game, you just need to accept that occasionally some of those players (a really, really, really small amount) that you come across will be arse holes and either find a way to be an arse hole right back, move to a different part of the zone, move to a different zone or forget about it!
I think the goalpoast just moved...over there.
I make no comment about other player's personality traits. I was just responding to your economic obejection to instanced nodes.2 -
bebynnag✭✭✭✭✭
✭puffytheslayer wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
having an unlimited amount of millet, carrots, rice & other provisioning ingredients doesnt effect balance though
whereas having an unlimited amout of certain alchemical ingrediets, wax, tempering alloys & rosin would
just as having easier access to the set pieces that can drop in chests would
its all well and good asking for quality of life changes but people need to look at the bigger picture,
balance is an issue in this game, a far more important issue than someone 'stealing' a chest, and the devs are working on improving the balance, and righly so.
Easily dealt with by having less spawns if they're instanced. More than one way to skin a Khajiit.
as i have said before in this thread the problem is not with the system that is currently in use, but with the players, now we cant control what other players do, but its unreasonable to ask zos to divert resources to counter them when there are far more important things about the game that need to be addressed.
you do not as the OP claimed originally need to avoid the other players in this game, you just need to accept that occasionally some of those players (a really, really, really small amount) that you come across will be arse holes and either find a way to be an arse hole right back, move to a different part of the zone, move to a different zone or forget about it!
I think the goalpoast just moved...over there.
I make no comment about other player's personality traits. I was just responding to your economic obejection to instanced nodes.
this entire thread even the tiutle is about how the the game has made the OP hate other people in this game...
because other people keep 'stealing' their nodes & chests and keep killing their mobs before they get a hit in on them
the reason instancing was introduced as a solution is because this is considered the 'only' way to appease players who share the same feelings as OP
the problem with instancing is that it will increase the amount of tempers in the game resulting in imbalance
you suggest that the quantity of resource nodes should therefore be reduced to prevent imbalance
im (bringing the conversation back on topic) by pointing out a much easier solution of forget about it/deal with it/move on!
goal posts not moved, goal post remaind exactly where they were,Edited by bebynnag on November 19, 2016 8:26PM0 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkstorne wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »thing is in an open world, MMO
You definitely qualify to work at ZOS, congrats!
"It's an MMO though! There's only one possible way these mechanics can ever work, and trying to think of solutions to the issue is just a waste of time. All MMOs must adhere to exactly the same formula."puffytheslayer wrote: »if you see a player camping a chest, waiting for someone to kill the NPC's so they can swipe the chest... why do lay into tir hands & kill the NPC's? just leave them there, they'll soon get bored & stop it, hey they may even learn to play & kill the NPC's for themselves!
Frustrating workarounds don't excuse the fact that it IS a problem. Solutions aren't difficult to think of - lock the chest to whichever player enters combat with the NPCs guarding it. But because no other big MMO has implemented that, ZOS won't either. They can't think outside the box, and apparently neither can you.
Lol that is a horrible solution. So someone can run around locking other from opening the chest or getting resources. What people fail to realize is in mmo's have to take into account the number of people who automatically look to abuse different game mechanics.
Has nothing to do with thinking outside the box. It is implementing things that work and are harder for people to abuse. It is easy to come up with various ideas but that doesn't mean they will work in a multiplayer environment.
Whoever is able to loot or kill whatever first is who the resource then belongs to. I hope they never go the route some people here are talking about.
Play enough mmo's and it becomes pretty obvious what things will be able to be abused. How about just move onto the next node instead of wanting the game changed and catered to you.
Edit: also if you are against "mmo standards" why do you play them? Want personal instance? Play a single player game. This is not a traditional tes game so why should it play like one, after all its ONLINE.
You need some sort of competition for resources otherwise what's the point in even having to collect them.Edited by alexkdd99 on November 19, 2016 8:34PM1 -
CapnPhoton✭✭✭✭✭Its really not a new thing. This has been around as long as MMOs and I use to even see it in the days of text based MUDs. It is unfortunate but unless they create some mechanic where the chest, or other item is linked to the bad guys nearby, its going to happen.Xbox One NA Aldmeri Dominion1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FoolishHuman wrote: »They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?
I have to day that if you cannot yourself see that thry are not your nodes or chests at all, not one bit, there is a problem to be sure.
If you cannot see someone else win the race ahead of you (node race) without hating them, there is a problem yo be sure.
But i have a solution.
It wont explode mat flow.
When someone harvests a node or empties a chest etc, the node/chest stays.
After the usual time it refills with mats or stuff.
NEW FEATURE
in the time between emptying and refilling, anyone can access the node/chest and collect a white Participation Trophy each with its own self-esteem reinforcing platitude.
A new achievement can be added for collecting PTs from every zone in every type of node and we can call it the "If you try your best, you're still a winner regardless" achievement.*
* Each trophy is unique and cannot be sold, destroyed, stacked or banked. Void where prohibited by daedric law.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."3 -
kessik221✭✭✭Finders keepers losers weepers. It aint gotchur name on it, it ain't yours. Since 1t you can get max level items anywhere dont qq cuz someone took a node move to a dif area or outfarm them. If i see a chest and some one is dumb enough to tag the mobs ima snipe dat ***. Theres a reason why they call this a massive multiplayer online and not a massive co op online.0
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kessik221✭✭✭I only wish this were an open world pvp game so i could reap the tears of all you noobs.1
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bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭bellanca6561n wrote: »bellanca6561n wrote: »Wandering_Indoril wrote: »agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.
In fairness they tried to make fishing cooperative by increasing the number of rare fish if more people were fishing a given spot.
Fishing came later. This makes me think that they saw the negative aspects of material harvesting and had too many other things going on to get back to it.
I can't think of another online game development studio, frankly, that had quite so many things on their plate the first year of release than Zenimax did.
But it's time to optimize. OT was a wonderful step.
But if you see multiple threads with subject lines similar to this one....that might be something to look into too
A lack of stickiness has plagued this game all along. And that's revenue thrown away.
With the instancing technology they use throughout the game for things like questing as a story telling device, it would have been relatively simple for them to have instanced the resource nodes, chests etc. to encourage a more co-operative and less competitive environment in the PVE part of the game.
If you remember, they DID change how heavy bags and chests work inside of dungeons. Why? Because people in dungeons used to wander off to grab those things competing against the other 3 group members messing-up and slowing down dungeon runs.
I have no problem with competitive everything inside Cyrodiil - encouraging player friction is what THAT is all about. But the PVE side of ESO has always been a bit thin on the design choices that encourage player co-operation. It's not just reflected in opting for the WOW-like competitive resource, chest, heavy bag, etc., design it's also the lack of overland group events that in ESO is just confined to static dolmens and world bosses.
GW2, which came before ESO, for all its warts, reflects a design philosophy that is more encouraging of co-operation and casual group opportunities. IMO, that's a better design choice that embraces the idea that group events foster better communities in MMO worlds than solo-centric competition and questing.
Ultimately players do have the responsibility for how they behave towards their peers in an MMO. But there ARE ways to encourage more co-operative behavior at the game design level.
Nothing to add but to agree and say how much I enjoyed your post.
Well....one nit. I never assume any implementation is easy because something that seems to be similar exists already. But that's utter speculation as none of us has looked under the hood here
True enough. But I was also thinking and forgot to mention that many resource objects already are instanced. All of those barrels, bags, crates in the game that drop provisioner mats and other goodies are already instanced. So they are already using the tech for some things.
Oh I know. I just have too many unfortunate experiences with game systems engineering that looks, from the outside, as if it's extensible and logically integrated.
This game was in development for six or seven years and went through at least one MAJOR design and engineering revision, along with all manner of staff turnover, prior to release. This isn't ZOS but every MMO type online game in the 21st century that wasn't made by Blizzard.
In short, it's already what is euphemistically called a legacy code base 1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IrishGirlGamer wrote: »FoolishHuman wrote: »They aren't your nodes! They are free to all. If you cant kill the mob quick enough then im afraid its tough **** if someone comes along and grabs it.
But that is exactly the point. Why design it in a way that breeds conflict. Just make it so that there is no fighting over who got there first and all these problems and frustrations go away.
While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, as it applies to the problem in the game, I disagree that the problem lies at the doorstep of Zenimax. Let me explain, using an example that happened to me this very morning.
I work at a museum. Today a large family group came in, including several parents and a number of children. We have an area that is specifically for children, and includes a number of small interactive engagement exhibits. One is a very popular, a computer that allows children to color shapes on a page, then find famous artworks that resemble their colors and shapes.
Two children wanted to use the computer at the same time. One was older, and pushy, and began to force the other children away, not physically but just because he was bigger. Eventually one of the parents came over to me and said, "You really need a second computer."
What? We need to spend our money (which is limited, thank you very much) on a second exhibit because you can't discipline your children?? Seriously? Now teaching your children to share is MY responsibility?
Could the game design be better? Oh yes, on any number of levels. Is this one of them? Meh. I'm not so sure.
The problem is with people, not the node design. The problem is with people, not the grouping tool. The problem is with people. Period.
Could Zenimax design their game around poor human behavior? Maybe. I'm not sure it's requirement though. Their answer to your issue with nodes is to put them everywhere!!! Seriously, I gathered 100 ore in about twenty minutes last night during the peak hours. And for the weekend, they've very clearly shortened the respawn time. That was Zenimax's design answer to your issue. Could it be better? Again, I don't see the need.
Maybe because I don't feel raising other people's kids is Zenimax's responsibility.
I think I love you.... That explanation is off the charts perfect!3 -
smacx250✭✭✭✭✭I've been seeing this for years now, and you know what - if you just let it go it won't matter one bit. Just take a deep breath and rest easy that things are going to be ok, even though someone just stole your sweet roll rubedite.
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