This game makes me hate seeing other players

Darkstorne · November 2016

puffytheslayer wrote: »

you want to fundamentally change the game from the core up

justice system? not being able to fight whoever you want whenever you want? why are these issues being discussed in this thread?

the game is what it is, i choose to accept the reality of the game & play within the confinments of the game, if you want an MMO that offers something different then go develop one, nobody is forcing you to play this game, or WOW.

Seriously? Please, read what I'm writing and don't jump to crazy conclusions. That's as a bad as people saying "He just wants this to be Skyrim."

I'm saying the free-for-all resources and chests mechanic only works well in games where players are free to exact their own justice against players being rude. Since that's not going to happen in ESO, the simple solution (which if you think changes the game's core... well that's your issue) is to lock resources to players fighting near them so others can't steal them from under you. That at least prevents ninja looting for chests, but still doesn't quite solve the problem the OP makes clear - if you see players going in one direction, you'll probably want to avoid them and go elsewhere. Otherwise, they'll get all the resources before you do. That's a shame to feel that way.

"if you want an MMO that offers something different then go develop one, nobody is forcing you to play this game, or WOW"

If you think having valid complaints about this game's shortcomings means we must hate the game in its entirety, then you need to step down from the knee-jerk defence committee.

bebynnag · November 2016

Darkstorne wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

you want to fundamentally change the game from the core up

justice system? not being able to fight whoever you want whenever you want? why are these issues being discussed in this thread?

the game is what it is, i choose to accept the reality of the game & play within the confinments of the game, if you want an MMO that offers something different then go develop one, nobody is forcing you to play this game, or WOW.

Seriously? Please, read what I'm writing and don't jump to crazy conclusions. That's as a bad as people saying "He just wants this to be Skyrim."

I'm saying the free-for-all resources and chests mechanic only works well in games where players are free to exact their own justice against players being rude. Since that's not going to happen in ESO, the simple solution (which if you think changes the game's core... well that's your issue) is to lock resources to players fighting near them so others can't steal them from under you. That at least prevents ninja looting for chests, but still doesn't quite solve the problem the OP makes clear - if you see players going in one direction, you'll probably want to avoid them and go elsewhere. Otherwise, they'll get all the resources before you do. That's a shame to feel that way.

"if you want an MMO that offers something different then go develop one, nobody is forcing you to play this game, or WOW"

If you think having valid complaints about this game's shortcomings means we must hate the game in its entirety, then you need to step down from the knee-jerk defence committee.

and i think you need to step away from the game if you feel the need to exact revenge over a resource/chest

i made a post that you disagreed with - you tried to insult me by saying youre perfectly qualified to work for zos, cause your small minded
i replied with a somewhat humerous/sarcastic response about needing a job
you got upset because your attmpt to upset me failed

you ask me to read you messages & hurl a bunch of pathetic insults at me
i block you cause im bored of you

akl77 · November 2016

Like when you saw a few nice nodes and you have to fight the mobs in order to get it , then some random took all the nodes and don't even help you fight the mobs and took off. Talk about manners.

FoolishHuman · November 2016

What is it with everyone refering to Skyrim? And my main point wasn't about the resource nodes anyway.
What I mean is this: I come to a Dolmen while exploring around and see there are 30+ players standing around. What do I do? Walk along because I already know I won't be able to get a hit in on the boss, especially if I am playing a low level alt. You want me to group with the people for 30 seconds and then leave the group again in this case? That doesn't sound sensible. Why can't the game do that for me? Treat everyone around like they are in a group automatically?
Same with public dungeons, as far as I understand they are meant to be played that way; I come along go in and kill the bosses with whomever happens to be there at the same time. What really happens is that everyone can solo everything and I have to wait 5 minutes at every champion because only their corpse on the ground remains. Again, an auto grouping feature would be good for that, because I only want to group for a minute, not farm the place over and over. Or give them more health so one player can't do it alone, or make the respawn time shorter the more players are around. I am sure there are lots of different ways to make this easier for everyone. Just the effort is not being made.

puffytheslayer wrote: »

the game is what it is, i choose to accept the reality of the game & play within the confinments of the game, if you want an MMO that offers something different then go develop one, nobody is forcing you to play this game, or WOW.

What kind of attitude is that in a place that is meant for feedback? I am not telling the devs how to make their game, I am saying what bothers me. That is what this is for.

bebynnag · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

What is it with everyone refering to Skyrim? And my main point wasn't about the resource nodes anyway.
What I mean is this: I come to a Dolmen while exploring around and see there are 30+ players standing around. What do I do? Walk along because I already know I won't be able to get a hit in on the boss, especially if I am playing a low level alt. You want me to group with the people for 30 seconds and then leave the group again in this case? That doesn't sound sensible. Why can't the game do that for me? Treat everyone around like they are in a group automatically?
Same with public dungeons, as far as I understand they are meant to be played that way; I come along go in and kill the bosses with whomever happens to be there at the same time. What really happens is that everyone can solo everything and I have to wait 5 minutes at every champion because only their corpse on the ground remains. Again, an auto grouping feature would be good for that, because I only want to group for a minute, not farm the place over and over. Or give them more health so one player can't do it alone, or make the respawn time shorter the more players are around. I am sure there are lots of different ways to make this easier for everyone. Just the effort is not being made.

puffytheslayer wrote: »

the game is what it is, i choose to accept the reality of the game & play within the confinments of the game, if you want an MMO that offers something different then go develop one, nobody is forcing you to play this game, or WOW.

What kind of attitude is that in a place that is meant for feedback? I am not telling the devs how to make their game, I am saying what bothers me. That is what this is for.

we view the issues in this game diffrently

the detailed example you give above is not a problem with the game itself
its a problem with the people who play it

when i am in a public dungeon & i see a low level i slow down my pace, so they can keep up. i stop attacking the boss so they can get their hit in

i am not the only person who plays like this, the reality is the majority of players play this way, helping the new players, helping those on their alts

unfortunatley there are the small percentage who dont the people who go out of their way to make steal other peoples resources/chests kill the boss so quick that no one else gets a hit on

you expect zos to change the game because of a small group of arse holes
i choose to ignore the arse holes, i refuse to get stressed over a dead champion, or a thieves trove with only lockpicks in, or missing out on the contents of a chest because someone ninja'd it and instead i try to enjoy the game
yes there are times when i have left a public dungeon because theres people spawn killing all the bosses because i know that if all the arse holes are sat in whatever dungeon spawn killing the boss, then the rest of the map is probablly good to play!

mtwiggz · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?

I agree. For an MMO this game really punishes you for completing content with other players. From the 2 person XP cap all the way to the lack of resource nodes, One Tamriel made all of these issues more prevalent.

Grabmoore · November 2016

@Darkstone: Do you realize that your suggestion would lead to you having less nodes and chests? Every 2nd node would be locked because another player is a bit closer.

Your suggestion wouldn't work. Got a better one? No? Well, there is none, leave this game or play in a world full of people.

Carbonised · November 2016

OP is absolutely right. This is a multi player game, yet in ever aspect, the game punishes you for being around other people, and other people generally serve more as a nuisance than as a ressource for your gameplay. The single exception to this being the dungeon and trial instances, that require multiple people to finish. And even still, if you're not in a guild of fluffy friends, but team up with randoms, the group experience is still horrible and more often than not end up with someone being put on someone else's ignore list.

They could easily have implemented various enticements for teaming up with other people, but instead they went down the road where other people only serve as someone who steal your ressources, steal your mobs and loot, or someone you can whack at in Cyrodiil. For shame.

Pallmor · November 2016

You should have tried playing back when the game was still infested with bots and there were a lot fewer nodes. Node-farming today is a paradise compared to what it was like back then. The occasional player beating me to a node is nothing next to a zerg of bots who could travel super-fast and underground, and snap up nodes almost as quickly as they spawned.

Tryxus · November 2016

JD2013 · November 2016

Just because you see a node, does not make it yours until you have it in your crafting bag/inventory.

I've had a couple of people slip in whilst I was killing a mob and taking a node I saw. Know what? No big deal. Plenty of nodes and mats everywhere to go around.

dpencil · November 2016

When it come to chests I am a little more sympathetic. Needing to exit combat before you can attempt to open a chest seems unnecessary. There's no need, logically, for the game to do that. If I want to take the risk of lockpicking a chest while in combat, I should have that perogative. You can lockpick on first boss of WGT while in combat and you can get aggro while picking a chest. Don't see why you can't initiate lockpicking while in combat too. That would fix the issue for me.

Nodes, on the other hand? There are millions of them. In 10 seconds you'll see another one. Sure, it would be nice if everyone was courteous and tried to give other people a chance at nodes if they see them going for it. Not everyone is that mature, though, and that level of maturity is not a requirement for playing the game. If you're just out in the wild to farm nodes, try going to places that are usually less populated like the starter islands and Coldharbor.

For boss kills, make sure you have some kind of ranged attack or gap closer. ZOS recently lowered the % damage you have to do to get credit for the kill, so basically one hit will do it. That is very generous. Don't be mad at other players because you showed up late to the party.

Lastly, on a philosophical level, there is a fundamental difference between courtesy and entitlement. Entitlement is when you feel like something is owed to you, and you demand it of others. Courtesy is a kindness you don't necessarily deserve that is shown to you freely by others. We can all hope for more courtesy in the player base, but the OP is simply acting entitled.

Ajaxduo · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?

Unless they changed it so materials and chests, etc had copies for everyone (would be nice). You don't own those resources it's purely first come first served atm, sure it sucks when a jerk jumps in with his speed build harvester but that's just how it is. If I want materials I go to a quiet zone and with the Orsinium event running there is barely anyone in Craglorn etc so I am rolling in mats.

GreenhaloX · November 2016

Don't fret it. I'm not defending anyone who sneaks in to take nodes from someone else. It is just a game. There will always be people doing such things. Every time I play, I run into players rushing in to take nodes from me and also sneak in to take the node while I'm fighting the adds, but I also run into those, like me, who don't take the node from someone else who is closer. Heck, I would be there standing right over a node, then as I press x, but since my toon is sometime slower to pick it up, someone who is seemingly faster would run in split second and take the node or mat from right under me. Whatever, it is not something for me to lose sleep or get mad over. There are plenty of nodes and it respawn. Just move on to the next. You may have to double back later. I also been making it a fun completion to race someone to a node, but usually, if I get there first, I let the other player have it. If the other toon gets there first, then I race to the next location and so on. I get plenty of mats, runestones and master chests every time I play, so I don't fret if some other toons sneak in or take a node from under me.

As far as the stealing of XP, I never known this to occur. If you're fighting any adds and there are one or more players involved attacking that add or adds, everyone should get the XP, regardless who kills the adds. Even if you're not part of a group, you should get it. The only way you won't get the XP is if you're not initially putting enough damages to that add before the other player kills that add. I never recall a time I didn't get XP, even when I was not the one making the kill. I even experimented many times over. I would hit one or two times on adds, mob or boss and then back away and let the other toon finish off. I would still get the XP after the other toon makes the kill. We were not part of a group.

TequilaFire · November 2016

Food for thought.
Multiplayer games are played for competition with other players.

Grunim · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

I don't want the other players to vanish! What I wish for is that if I open a chest or take a resource that it won't go away for everyone else so everyone can take it, something like that.

And what you wish for is not unprecedented in an MMORPG. Guild Wars 2 has such a design.

Jaronking · November 2016

Darkstorne wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

But what you really want is just Skyrim, right?

Perfect way to ignore his valid complaints about some of the game design and pretend he wants to play a completely different game.

I know this might come as a shock to you, but maybe he genuinely justs want to play a slightly better version of ESO, and not Skyrim? Big revelation, I know.

Nahhh I think he just wants to play skyrim 2.

Darkstorne · November 2016

Grabmoore wrote: »

@Darkstone: Do you realize that your suggestion would lead to you having less nodes and chests? Every 2nd node would be locked because another player is a bit closer.

Your suggestion wouldn't work. Got a better one? No? Well, there is none, leave this game or play in a world full of people.

Every second node is a gross exaggeration. It would only be for nodes and chests that have another player in combat within 5 metres of them. The VAST majority of nodes we come across aren't contested. And since most of us are polite enough to recognise when a player is in combat specifically to access a chest or resource and leave them to it, this only hurts the rude players who are happy to claim those chests and resources as their own.

I'm not sure what's wrong with the defence committee in this thread. Your retorts are all extreme measures like "There is no problem, there is no solution - You obviously hate this game so play something else instead - You clearly just want this to be Skyrim." There's nothing with admitting that despite being a fun game that's constantly being improved, there are still some QOL issues that actively reward players for stealing resources/chests that are clearly claimed (player in combat on top of them).

TequilaFire wrote: »

Food for thought.
Multiplayer games are played for competition with other players.

And in Cyrodiil that's all well and good. If someone is being a **** to you, you're free to do something about it. The goal of PVE in this game was to make playing with others something to be valued. That grouping up leads to co-operation and benefits, not tacit conflict and wanting to deliberately venture away from other players.

Turns out WoW has actually added a solution for this in Legion - resource nodes don't vanish immediately, but hang around for 30 seconds or so after another player has harvested them. Means they'll still be limited in supply, but if multiple players are rushing towards a mining node at the same time, they all get mats. Hopefully ZOS adopt something similar. Fingers crossed they can do something about boss mobs as well. I still think optional personal dungeon instances would improve the game immeasurably, since that would also allow for mobs that don't respawn, encouraging players to explore and take their time.

Unsent.Soul · November 2016

mtwiggz wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?

I agree. For an MMO this game really punishes you for completing content with other players. From the 2 person XP cap all the way to the lack of resource nodes, One Tamriel made all of these issues more prevalent.

Resource nodes is an issue now, because of 1T? Really? The way I see it, people are farming in wrothgar most likely, everyone is there, getting butt hurt, because everyone else is there... blame the event and simple minded players.

While all the people bickering about node and chest stealing, mean people, rude people, etc I'm in a different zone, with nobody, farming all day, hassle free.

So you guys complaining about other players, the more time you spend here on the soap box, the less farming you're doing. Move to a different map, you'll get more resources faster, even with the event going on.

IrishGirlGamer · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

They aren't your nodes! They are free to all. If you cant kill the mob quick enough then im afraid its tough **** if someone comes along and grabs it.

But that is exactly the point. Why design it in a way that breeds conflict. Just make it so that there is no fighting over who got there first and all these problems and frustrations go away.

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, as it applies to the problem in the game, I disagree that the problem lies at the doorstep of Zenimax. Let me explain, using an example that happened to me this very morning.

I work at a museum. Today a large family group came in, including several parents and a number of children. We have an area that is specifically for children, and includes a number of small interactive engagement exhibits. One is a very popular, a computer that allows children to color shapes on a page, then find famous artworks that resemble their colors and shapes.

Two children wanted to use the computer at the same time. One was older, and pushy, and began to force the other children away, not physically but just because he was bigger. Eventually one of the parents came over to me and said, "You really need a second computer."

What? We need to spend our money (which is limited, thank you very much) on a second exhibit because you can't discipline your children?? Seriously? Now teaching your children to share is MY responsibility?

Could the game design be better? Oh yes, on any number of levels. Is this one of them? Meh. I'm not so sure.

The problem is with people, not the node design. The problem is with people, not the grouping tool. The problem is with people. Period.

Could Zenimax design their game around poor human behavior? Maybe. I'm not sure it's requirement though. Their answer to your issue with nodes is to put them everywhere!!! Seriously, I gathered 100 ore in about twenty minutes last night during the peak hours. And for the weekend, they've very clearly shortened the respawn time. That was Zenimax's design answer to your issue. Could it be better? Again, I don't see the need.

Maybe because I don't feel raising other people's kids is Zenimax's responsibility.

bellanca6561n · November 2016

All motive friction in an online game should serve to help bring compatible players together.

Any motive friction that puts strangers, regardless of faction, into inevitable conflict by its very essence is a poor design. It's just heat without light. It is, by definition, an anti-social game mechanic.

Resource nodes should be instanced to players as they are in other games, such GW2, with long respawn timers, and have variable node locations.

So much of the current system involves guaranteed moments of useless friction due to a lack of awareness of network games.

Two people see a node. Both may see themselves as arriving to the node first but no two people in a network game are seeing the same thing at the same time.

Much of your design in an online game involves rendering this fact moot. Resources nodes in this game make it both obvious and upsetting for half the players in these scenarios.

Finally it's simply not fair. Players should only be rewarded or not rewarded for matters that are under their control. If one player can take something from a player - something the other player sees as theirs because, on their screen, they got there first - due to a small difference in ping time, what conceivable good can come from that?

If you don't want to go so far as to instance nodes to individuals then simply give both of them the node if both of them are seen as close to it by the host as they are attempting to harvest it.

Wandering_Ashlander · November 2016

agreed, game's too easy leading to barely no cooperation between players, and no economy leads to no trading, thus this is materials war out there.

ItsGlaive · November 2016

Only time I've felt annoyed at seeing other players is in delves. I still firmly believe that for a proper Elder Scrolls "exploration" experience, delves need to be instanced to groups and individuals.

Rohamad_Ali · November 2016

How is it possible you can't get XP when damage is raised for all low level players and a hard sneeze on a NPC gives you credit now ? Are you trying to Heal the monsters ?

Unsent.Soul · November 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

How is it possible you can't get XP when damage is raised for all low level players and a hard sneeze on a NPC gives you credit now ? Are you trying to Heal the monsters ?

Now they will mock you and say you're being rude....

Rohamad_Ali · November 2016

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

How is it possible you can't get XP when damage is raised for all low level players and a hard sneeze on a NPC gives you credit now ? Are you trying to Heal the monsters ?

Now they will mock you and say you're being rude....

Telling the truth is not rude . The damage to get shared XP was lowered significantly . Just a tap on a NPC gives credit even if someone else did majority of damage .

Iselin · November 2016

I din't like GW2 much for several reasons but non-competitive resource nodes was one of their brilliant ideas that should become standard for MMORPGs everywhere.

The other one was base-game mat storage - not just a perk for the few.

FoolishHuman · November 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Nahhh I think he just wants to play skyrim 2.

This is like talking to a wall. Why don't you get out the memes while you are at it, I so enjoy intelligent comments from people that barely read the title or the first sentence of the topic.

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

I work at a museum. Today a large family group came in, including several parents and a number of children. We have an area that is specifically for children, and includes a number of small interactive engagement exhibits. One is a very popular, a computer that allows children to color shapes on a page, then find famous artworks that resemble their colors and shapes.

Two children wanted to use the computer at the same time. One was older, and pushy, and began to force the other children away, not physically but just because he was bigger. Eventually one of the parents came over to me and said, "You really need a second computer."

What? We need to spend our money (which is limited, thank you very much) on a second exhibit because you can't discipline your children?? Seriously? Now teaching your children to share is MY responsibility?

First of all, I wanna repeat that the whole resource node thing is not my first concern at all. It was just one of the things that I think lead to uncooperative behavior.
Second, we are not dealing with the physical world here. It is much easier to put two or a hundred resource nodes at that place than it is to buy and place a second computer in your museum. Why not use the advantages of the digital world?

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

The problem is with people, not the node design. The problem is with people, not the grouping tool. The problem is with people. Period.

Since we cannot change people, the smartest thing would indeed be to change the game design.

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

How is it possible you can't get XP when damage is raised for all low level players and a hard sneeze on a NPC gives you credit now ? Are you trying to Heal the monsters ?

Happened to me on a boss monster several times during the witches festival at dolmens, the boss died so fast that it was impossible for my low level character to deal 3% damage in time.
And it happens all the time when you are killing a group of mobs and someone rushes in to kill them all before you. Can't get a hit in when they are dead. And then what I do is to wait until the person before me is far enough away that all mobs behind them have respawned again - the typical behavior of avoiding other people in this game, and the problem I was talking about.

Grunim wrote: »

And what you wish for is not unprecedented in an MMORPG. Guild Wars 2 has such a design.

You are right, and maybe I am spoiled by the fact that GW2 was my first MMO years back. They also had other great ideas, like world bosses getting more hp and armor the more people were around, so everyone got a chance to contribute.
Why people think this is a single player attitude I don't understand. If i have to avoid everyone else it is much more like a single player game imo.

Rohamad_Ali · November 2016

The Dolmans have a bug where AOE damage effect boss before it drops . Slot a AOE and you won't have that problem anymore .

altemriel · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

They steal my resource nodes, chests, kill enemies before I can get xp, kill champions before I can get the achievement. This supposed multiplayer game is made in a way that makes you despise other players. Shouldn't the design be in a way that I actually enjoy seeing others instead of wishing they would just go away?

no, not the players make you want to hate seeing them, but your attitude. of course there are many many players around, the first one gets the mat or xp. but the map is huge, the nodes and enemies are many, sometimes you harvest it, sometimes not, relax and enjoy the game

!