Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Giving the Nightblade a passive that increases their max stamina by 8% when there's an assassination ability would be more than fair. We also need some form of a healing buff as well. Templars get the strongest heals, a purge, and an offensive shield; DKs have the strongest defense, incredible self healing (Stam DK > Stamplar), and have the best CCs in the game; Sorcs are top dog in the realm of damage shields, and have the best escape in the game; Nightblades have the best 1vX CC in the game, but have nothing for defensive properties outside of cloak which is only effective against crappy players (much like spamming ambush over and over).

Here's the thing, in terms of burst the Nightblade and magicka sorc are top dogs; however unlike the sorc, we don't have a reliable means of defense. ZOS really needs to give us something in terms of stronger healing or survivability.

Id rather nb be the class with the worst healing and relie on dodging and being very hard to target.

If nbs got are cloak purge back, we would be fine.

Getting the dot suppressor back would also be a trade off I would be fine with. Our Magic counter part has healing down to a T. We, unlike our Magic bros, have access to Vigor. Our counter part needs a Resto staff for big self heals if they don't have Sap Essence/Strife/it's morphs. So if stamina got a heal buff, it would need to make a whole lot of sense where we get it from and it should not overly buff the magic portion.

Maybe putting something like additional healing received on relentless focus or something like that. Drop the Spectral bow proc for the additional healing.

You make a good point but i dont think magicka also having the old purge cloak would be op.

There just isnt room for anything on my stamina nbs bars, so giving cloak its purge is my only solution to giving stam medium users there survivability without giving them better heals.

Bacon-bits pls,

We all know NB has the best defense in terms of avoiding damage through the use of Cloak(Breaks LoS for a lot of abilities). However, we're forced to either attack or use Cloak to gain access to Major ward/ Major Resolve through Shadow Barrier. Unless we're running Immovable/it's morphs. We either have to commit to using SA or Cloaking to get it.

When we engage a target, if we don't got mana to spare or if the target is too far away(SA usage is 5m). If you're running Medium x7 pc you're done like deep fried bacon. In this current meta, even running Heavy without having Major's up you're going to get leveled, just not as quickly.

This means if you don't commit to either attacking or keeping enough mana to run away, NB can't really stand his ground as well as S&B StamSorc or StamDK. This is the discussion we're talking about. Whether or not NB should inherit those buffs is yet to be seen. Not without risking losing Cloak, it would be too much to be able to stand our ground AND prevent the enemy from LoS us at all. After all, I would rather be Sorc/DK/Temp in that case--their abilities like class passives/active ones, are much more suited for that type of combat.

There's to many imbalances in the game currently to truly get people to understand why i believe cloak purge should come back. Once you take away these imbalances and fix health bars stop from going 0-100% so sporadically then it makes sense.

You would have to:
-Normalize proc sets
-Fix broken monster helms (Seleane, Infernal Gaurdian)
-Revert Desto Ulty to pre-buff
-Make Dawnbreaker dodge-able
-Fix Vicious Death, Viper (procing from enchants)
-Revamp Dragon Blood
-Fix Clouding Swarm

Once all this occurs your left with a pretty decent game in my opinion.. however were still left with one problem. Medium Armour stamina builds become the weakest link in the game (outside of ganking). Burst is now lowish and heavy Armour is still superior. Not that im opposed to Medium Armour being the under-dog's, personally i like being an underdog spec.

Now when i compare each medium Armour classes survivability, i believe night blades will have the worst. Against competent players, cloaking is very unreliable and usually results in a waste of 3k magicka. So giving nightblades a little breathing room with cloak purge (could also be reduced to 2 effects) would help a lot.

This is just me ranting at this point. I personally don't have that many issues with cloak but i do have issues with getting 1-2 shot with 20k resist and 3k impen. TTK is just to high and has forced players into heavy Armour. Medium has become the 1 shot or nothing Armour spec. At least light Armour users can spam wards (not that it helps in are insanely high TTK meta anyway.... unless your charging with a destro train am i right?).

At this point im more excited about cosmetics then i am pvp balance. I go into pvp, gank like i always have and log out. I don't get to worked up over how pvp plays out anymore, its always the same meal but different flavors.

acw37162 wrote: »

The toolkit for NB's is so strong

Cloak, and no it should not get its DOT cleanse back
Summon Shade - essientally a teleport and best minor maim be buff going
Surprise Attack - single target huge instant direct damage
I would say Incap Strike but really three useful ultimates one that does ridiclious and it ridicliously cheap
Ultimate Regen
The ability to stack crit or stack health on with class skills on a bar thanks to a rather amazing suite of class passive
Ambush - best gap closer in the game, for like four reasons, period.

Sounds a lot like your play style is not meshing well with your setup well. Don't know.

I personally had to leave NB for awhile and come back to it after playing other classes to realize how much better it was designed the at least two of the other classes.

Cloak is more like rolling a dice these days, the tooltip should be something like "Gives you a chance to gain invisibility for 2.9 seconds"

But yeah , nightblade has amazing stuff built into it.

Ambush. Awsome when it works, but since they changed something about it, sometimes it doesn't work with just little elevation and doesn't gapclose at all. Critrush has far less issues tbh, but less bursty.

What does comes to your mind when you say the word- NIGHTBLADE? A warrior with his beautiful chain mail and sword & board, yoloing in the massive enemy group and come out victorious? I'm sure answer is a big g NO. You'll visualise a medium sized agile, fast, super sneaking , get in get out kind of ninja who attacks from shadows and vanishes back into them.
In TESO they have been given a new name (not really new in MMOs) GANKER. Well that's how it is. People need to deal with it and the class has been given the tools for such gameplay. We can qq all day wether cloak should be back to its formal self or not but it's very much an important tools of a NIGHTBLADE. There are players out there who excelled at this game play and to name a few like Zergbad, sribes etc...and they made the gameplay look so easy and for those wondering ...they did 1vs X but in their own way...and to date it's still being done by so many...

Yes! PROC sets have made it difficult for other classes to survive the already existing burst but again, that's what it's all about...kill before the dead one can even realise what happened...so qq all you want. NB will and should use the PROC sets as long as DK and Templar will use Brickwall builds with inf resource management and huge damage taking capabilities...

My 0.2$....( yes it's 20 cents not 2, I'm rich to spare another 18)

Heavy dk
Heavy magplar
Any heavy s&b build

These are all so effective against stam builds.

With cloak being useless this patch as gap closers still still stop you cloaking and now everyone has something to stop cloaking altogether, grothdarr, hurricane, infernal guardian. Stam nb's aren't anywhere near as good as people think.

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

The toolkit for NB's is so strong

Cloak, and no it should not get its DOT cleanse back
Summon Shade - essientally a teleport and best minor maim be buff going
Surprise Attack - single target huge instant direct damage
I would say Incap Strike but really three useful ultimates one that does ridiclious and it ridicliously cheap
Ultimate Regen
The ability to stack crit or stack health on with class skills on a bar thanks to a rather amazing suite of class passive
Ambush - best gap closer in the game, for like four reasons, period.

Sounds a lot like your play style is not meshing well with your setup well. Don't know.

I personally had to leave NB for awhile and come back to it after playing other classes to realize how much better it was designed the at least two of the other classes.

Have you ever even played a nightblade before?

Cloak is a joke. It's too unreliable because people have so many ways of pulling you out of stealth plus the amount of magicka it costs to cast it with a maximum magicka pool of 14k with tri stat food, I'd have to say you couldn't be more wrong.

Summon shade is meaningless AGAIN THIS GOES BACK TO US HAVING TO AVOID DAMAGE. We have to avoid damage, we cannot take damage. Does this make any sense at all?

My surprise attack when I buff up says it hits for 13k and I have a lot of armor penetration by use duel maces and sharpened, plus 30 cp into armor penetration. However it does literally like no damage to so many people nowadays because they are walking around with 30k resistance.

Incapacitating strikes is a joke. Do not even talk about how overpowered the healing debuff is because people are no longer affected by this ability. It's almost as if they completely ignore the debuff (or they probably do). When I buff up it says it does 20k damage.

Now let's talk about magicka dragonknights and how much burst, sustain, and overall flexibility this class has in this update. What about templars and their powerful heals? Or even sorcerers which are still highly playable if they have good resource management. What about nightblades? Well I guess all we have is crappy self heals, terrible survive-ability, bad sustain, and also having a hard time killing people. Now I am more than aware about all this animation cancelling and whatever, or these proc sets which I would never use. However it feels like no matter how much effort you put into a nightblade it would never be enough.

Edit: Not to mention how frequently people dodge my ultimate. I stopped using it when I realized how much of a joke this ability is for pvp.

Ok you got me, i laughed, 10/10 troll though.

thankyourat wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

The toolkit for NB's is so strong

Cloak, and no it should not get its DOT cleanse back
Summon Shade - essientally a teleport and best minor maim be buff going
Surprise Attack - single target huge instant direct damage
I would say Incap Strike but really three useful ultimates one that does ridiclious and it ridicliously cheap
Ultimate Regen
The ability to stack crit or stack health on with class skills on a bar thanks to a rather amazing suite of class passive
Ambush - best gap closer in the game, for like four reasons, period.

Sounds a lot like your play style is not meshing well with your setup well. Don't know.

I personally had to leave NB for awhile and come back to it after playing other classes to realize how much better it was designed the at least two of the other classes.

Have you ever even played a nightblade before?

Cloak is a joke. It's too unreliable because people have so many ways of pulling you out of stealth plus the amount of magicka it costs to cast it with a maximum magicka pool of 14k with tri stat food, I'd have to say you couldn't be more wrong.

Summon shade is meaningless AGAIN THIS GOES BACK TO US HAVING TO AVOID DAMAGE. We have to avoid damage, we cannot take damage. Does this make any sense at all?

My surprise attack when I buff up says it hits for 13k and I have a lot of armor penetration by use duel maces and sharpened, plus 30 cp into armor penetration. However it does literally like no damage to so many people nowadays because they are walking around with 30k resistance.

Incapacitating strikes is a joke. Do not even talk about how overpowered the healing debuff is because people are no longer affected by this ability. It's almost as if they completely ignore the debuff (or they probably do). When I buff up it says it does 20k damage.

Now let's talk about magicka dragonknights and how much burst, sustain, and overall flexibility this class has in this update. What about templars and their powerful heals? Or even sorcerers which are still highly playable if they have good resource management. What about nightblades? Well I guess all we have is crappy self heals, terrible survive-ability, bad sustain, and also having a hard time killing people. Now I am more than aware about all this animation cancelling and whatever, or these proc sets which I would never use. However it feels like no matter how much effort you put into a nightblade it would never be enough.

Edit: Not to mention how frequently people dodge my ultimate. I stopped using it when I realized how much of a joke this ability is for pvp.

Ok you got me, i laughed, 10/10 troll though.

mag dk is beast in 1v1 though. they are like a mini-God.

Everything is good 1v1 if you build for 1v1.

The game is not balanced for 1v1 either.

Templars are good vs mag dk's.
Trap beast shuts down mag dk's.
Heavy stam dk is just better than mag dk.

I think this patch especially is the most lobsided I've ever seen.

The heavy armour meta has only existed due to carnage proc sets turning average players into animals, and let's all be honest Stam nightblades have taken a spectacular fall due to this meta.

So personally, I think it's hilarious, because by introducing crazy new monster sets ruining pvp, they've in turn self created a meta that has totally nerfed the previously strongest pvp class

If we changed the other morph of Cloak-- Dark Cloak, to be something like StamSorc Hurricane, that proc'ed Shadow Barrier that would make the class better if the NB wanted to run Heavy Armor and stand his ground.

I'm not saying change Dark Cloak to be exactly like Hurricane. Just something like -- casting a type of vile disease armor that deals damage to the target within 5m, is a disease DoT, and leaves a trail of ooze(think Wall of Elements) behind the NB that deals disease damage then fades after a few seconds. This would give us access to a ticking DoT and punish people who got too close to engage the heavy armor NB and could be countered by Bow's/Magic Players that play Long range. The trade off is, they can't have access to cloak to LoS attacks, but they can disesae damage enemies and stand their ground with Major's active while its on the player.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lol @ people wanting to buff stamblades. Yes, the class has weaknesses. It's supposed to, as every class. Only that stamblades happen to have fewer glaring weaknesses while having an excellent toolkit. Stop asking for an I-Win-Button class and buff the classes that are really in need, like mag DKs.

Stamblades actually have more glaring weaknessess than any other class because their healing sucks compared to other classes. It's pretty much the same with magblade. the nightblade class is weak at the moment. Still very playable, but it would probably rank in last place. It has crazy utility but major mending is so overpowered that one ability over shadows the whole nightblade tool kit. While the nightblade main strength is burst damage that is easily gained by any other class. All classes can kill someone in 3 or 4 hits and yes while mag dk isn't the best in solo PvP it's great in group play and pretty much unstoppable 1v1. A Well built dk should win every fight because of how strong the class is at the moment. The exception to this is a nightblade running proc sets. But that's a completely different problem. It's like when everyone thought magblade was op but really only proxy det was op and magblade was actually kind of weak

leepalmer95 wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lol @ people wanting to buff stamblades. Yes, the class has weaknesses. It's supposed to, as every class. Only that stamblades happen to have fewer glaring weaknesses while having an excellent toolkit. Stop asking for an I-Win-Button class and buff the classes that are really in need, like mag DKs.

Stamblades actually have more glaring weaknessess than any other class because their healing sucks compared to other classes. It's pretty much the same with magblade. the nightblade class is weak at the moment. Still very playable, but it would probably rank in last place. It has crazy utility but major mending is so overpowered that one ability over shadows the whole nightblade tool kit. While the nightblade main strength is burst damage that is easily gained by any other class. All classes can kill someone in 3 or 4 hits and yes while mag dk isn't the best in solo PvP it's great in group play and pretty much unstoppable 1v1. A Well built dk should win every fight because of how strong the class is at the moment. The exception to this is a nightblade running proc sets. But that's a completely different problem. It's like when everyone thought magblade was op but really only proxy det was op and magblade was actually kind of weak

Big wow the healing is bad you can build the class to have more healing though

Try building enough sustain so you can use lingering hp pots.

The extra 30% healing + the extra HoT will take care of all your healings needs.

Magicka nightblades have good healing, there just like every other classes that uses healing ward only difference is they have a huge ward with 50k+ magicka and their many spammable has a nice HoT on it.

Yea mag sorc has bad healing too because healing ward sucks and it only works half the time the other half it'll heal you for only 1 hp. Mag sorc also have 50k magicka but instead of one sheild they have two. One shield is pretty easy to deal with. A 30% heal increase is huge especially because you don't have to waste cp or a pot to get it. I'm not saying that mag dks are op in saying that they excel at 1v1 PvP. I also feel like 1v1 is the best way to see your class weaknessess and most nightblades are bad 1v1. Me personally though I feel like nightblades and sorcs shouldn't be able to get major mending because they are suppose to have burst damage. But on the flip side I feel like the other classes shouldn't have such high burst damage which for the most part isn't the case right now. That's why stam dk is op right now. Mag dk would be op but it still struggles like the rest of the magicka classes because it's slow and snares are everywhere and mist form sucks.