Explain to me exactly how stamina nightblades are cheesy

SilentBoomstick

Okay so first off I have like the best stats that you could possibly need to play this class and it still feels extremely underpowered. I have 26k health 36k max stamina 5.1k weapon damage with purple weapons (sharpened swords and powered 2h) and 1800 recovery. That is from rally, clever alchemist and continuous attack. It is still a joke. I can't even keep myself alive and people tell me to wear heavy armor but I don't want to because I've tried it and I did not see much of a difference because people have a lot of armor penetration. I have 30 points into blessed and 45 into quick recovery. 2100 resistance total. I would like to know exactly what is cheesy about being killed in 6 hits. What am I supposed to not take damage? That is inevitable. I can't mitigate no damage because my vigor in PvP only ticks for about 2k.

Now let's talk about every other class. Dragonknights can take a lot of damage and now they can actually do a lot of damage. Magplars have a lot of different ways to keep themselves alive plus they are actually really good damage dealers. Sorcerers have shield stacking which is still cheesy if they have good rotation. Nightblades have a useless cloak but put out great burst, the best damage dealers in the game by far. If you make any changes to the nightblade class such as nerfing incap then you are basically nerfing the class because our only defense is offense.

I'm not making this thread to complain about nightblades being the most unfair class to play in the game but instead asking why people keep telling me that nightblades are cheesy. They are the exact opposite.

Tryxus

It's mostly a case of generalizing a class due to a few "bad apples"

It's true: NB possess great burst and can dish out a good amount of damage in open world PvP but in the current Heavy Armor meta all of that can easily be overcome by DKs and Templars

Then there's ganking, in which the NB are the top. Especially with the current proc sets like Veli + Widowmaker + Viper. Nobody likes getting ganked and a lot of ppl find NB annoying to fight against. This is why most ppl call the NB "cheesy", even the non-gankers and non-proc NB.

SilentBoomstick

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Okay so first off I have like the best stats that you could possibly need to play this class and it still feels extremely underpowered. I have 26k health 36k max stamina 5.1k weapon damage with purple weapons (sharpened swords and powered 2h) and 1800 recovery. That is from rally, clever alchemist and continuous attack. It is still a joke. I can't even keep myself alive and people tell me to wear heavy armor but I don't want to because I've tried it and I did not see much of a difference because people have a lot of armor penetration. I have 30 points into blessed and 45 into quick recovery. 2100 resistance total. I would like to know exactly what is cheesy about being killed in 6 hits. What am I supposed to not take damage? That is inevitable. I can't mitigate no damage because my vigor in PvP only ticks for about 2k.

Now let's talk about every other class. Dragonknights can take a lot of damage and now they can actually do a lot of damage. Magplars have a lot of different ways to keep themselves alive plus they are actually really good damage dealers. Sorcerers have shield stacking which is still cheesy if they have good rotation. Nightblades have a useless cloak but put out great burst, the best damage dealers in the game by far. If you make any changes to the nightblade class such as nerfing incap then you are basically nerfing the class because our only defense is offense.

I'm not making this thread to complain about nightblades being the most unfair class to play in the game but instead asking why people keep telling me that nightblades are cheesy. They are the exact opposite.

Edit: I am more than aware that these new proc sets are cheesy on any stam tank build. However I am 100% incorruptible and no matter what cancer build ZOS adds to this game I will never use it. Also I hear people say "Every class is strong in its own way". That is such a load of bs because the only class that I believe is the absolute strongest is a magplar. They have NO FLAWS. They have tankiness, strong heals, and great dps. Every other class in this game is not nearly as strong as a magplar is. I don't care how good you think you are at this game because all MMOs are based off vairables rather than actual player skill.

Canadianeh71

Yeah, agreed... Stamblades aren't cheesy. especially not anymore....(without flotm cheese)they have zero survive-ability. mediocre healing...just decent DPS. but with all the new sets and updates you can achieve the same dps, with better resource management using other classes without being squishy

people complained about getting ganked so everything got the nerfed or buffed etc etc

The point of the nightblade was to be a stealthy glass cannon, if i catch u off guard i kill you....if you catch me sneaking i die...whats the point of an assassin who cant gank unsuspecting newbs lost in the wood...if i even want to be competitive now i just attack all out hoping my armor kills you before your armor kills me....such a shame

SilentBoomstick

Tryxus wrote: »

It's mostly a case of generalizing a class due to a few "bad apples"

It's true: NB possess great burst and can dish out a good amount of damage in open world PvP but in the current Heavy Armor meta all of that can easily be overcome by DKs and Templars

Then there's ganking, in which the NB are the top. Especially with the current proc sets like Veli + Widowmaker + Viper. Nobody likes getting ganked and a lot of ppl find NB annoying to fight against. This is why most ppl call the NB "cheesy", even the non-gankers and non-proc NB.

That's highly problematic for people that don't want to follow the meta.

Solariken

When people talk about cheeseblades, they are really talking about proc-based gank builds. Nightblades in general aren't necessarily cheesy (even though I disagree with the design choice that anyone should be able to maintain nearly 100% uptime on stealth and move at faster-than-sprint speeds while in stealth...).

With that said, stamblades are not underpowered in the least. You have a ton of build freedom while maintaining high burst and survivability. Sure you might not be able to face-tank damage quite as well as a Dk, but that is a trade-off for having much better evasion/utility/mobility/etc. Having access to Incap means you can easily drop the gank sets/skills and build for balance between damage output and self-sustain.

Kutsuu

Just like in any other MMO, the "stealther" class gets tons of hate because of their ability to gank efficiently. Sure other classes can hide, but NBs have the best tools for ganking from stealth and the vast majority of stamblades play a high damage build that can gank pretty well. Why? Well mostly because the more survivable builds that other classes run aren't as good on stam NBs. A skilled player can make it work but if you want to be an out in the open Xv1 skirmisher other classes bring more to the table, so we play to our strengths. Most stamblades end up using very similar skills because some are just too good to take off your bars and people "get tired of dying to the same attacks": Incap, Surprise Attack, Cloak, Ambush, Mass Hysteria to name a few.

Interestingly Magicka NBs can gank almost as well and bring more versatility, survival, and utility to the table. However the fallacy that they are weak is somehow perpetuated around here to the point that people respect you for "out of the box" play if you go Magicka. If it's really bothering you so much that people think you are bad for playing a stam NB, consider a Magblade. One cannot have too many NBs, I have a mag+stam on each faction!

edit: also, if you're having trouble playing stam NB it's not for everyone... but just keep in mind you shouldn't be playing it like a DK and trying to tank "6 hits". Getting a good hang of your animation cancelling, situational awareness, and spatial awareness (having LOS nearby to help escape, etc) changes things a lot.

SilentBoomstick

Solariken wrote: »

When people talk about cheeseblades, they are really talking about proc-based gank builds. Nightblades in general aren't necessarily cheesy (even though I disagree with the design choice that anyone should be able to maintain nearly 100% uptime on stealth and move at faster-than-sprint speeds while in stealth...).

With that said, stamblades are not underpowered in the least. You have a ton of build freedom while maintaining high burst and survivability. Sure you might not be able to face-tank damage quite as well as a Dk, but that is a trade-off for having much better evasion/utility/mobility/etc. Having access to Incap means you can easily drop the gank sets/skills and build for balance between damage output and self-sustain.

Such lies. That is another thing I am angry about. I never dodge anything with shuffle but in a duel I get so pissed off with people that use shuffle because they avoid like 80% of all my attacks. "Not be able to face-tank damage" "maintain high burst and survivabiity", What planet are you from? Shuffle vigor roll dodge and rally is NOT ENOUGH SUSTAIN. We are the only class that does not have sustain provided. We are not cheesy by any means. We are glass cannons that will die out of stealth. We are the only class that has no freedom to choose anything. Anybody that tells you that nightblades are overpowered is so delusional because they fail to recognize that we are not a flexible class by any means.

There are so many people that you will not be able to burst down no matter how hard you try because they are a tank dps healer. Go walk up to any 561 dk that has a 30 man group riding down then watch how badly it will end well for you simply because everyone is set up to never die. Nightblades are definitely not OP considering everyone has all this tankiness and here I am a glass cannon trying to hit a brick wall that hits like a truck.

SilentBoomstick

Kutsuu wrote: »

Just like in any other MMO, the "stealther" class gets tons of hate because of their ability to gank efficiently. Sure other classes can hide, but NBs have the best tools for ganking from stealth and the vast majority of stamblades play a high damage build that can gank pretty well. Why? Well mostly because the more survivable builds that other classes run aren't as good on stam NBs. A skilled player can make it work but if you want to be an out in the open Xv1 skirmisher other classes bring more to the table, so we play to our strengths. Most stamblades end up using very similar skills because some are just too good to take off your bars and people "get tired of dying to the same attacks": Incap, Surprise Attack, Cloak, Ambush, Mass Hysteria to name a few.

Interestingly Magicka NBs can gank almost as well and bring more versatility, survival, and utility to the table. However the fallacy that they are weak is somehow perpetuated around here to the point that people respect you for "out of the box" play if you go Magicka. If it's really bothering you so much that people think you are bad for playing a stam NB, consider a Magblade. One cannot have too many NBs, I have a mag+stam on each faction!

edit: also, if you're having trouble playing stam NB it's not for everyone... but just keep in mind you shouldn't be playing it like a DK and trying to tank "6 hits". Getting a good hang of your animation cancelling, situational awareness, and spatial awareness (having LOS nearby to help escape, etc) changes things a lot.

I pay it like a ganker but now I don't want to do it anymore because it no longer works on people anymore.

HoloYoitsu

I mean, you've got your Pepper-jack Blades, Swiss Blades, Cheddar Blades, Provolone Blades, Feta Blades, Mozzarella Blades, Ricotta Blades, Parmesan Blades... I could go on but you get the picture...

AzuraKin

first of all lets me point out some things, PVP AND PVE ARE 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES, AND HOW CLASSES SHOULD BE PLAYED IN VAROUS ROLES IN BOTH PVP AND PVE ARE NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENT AS WELL.

PVP:
stam nightblades: strongest gankers in game. also have solid utility in groups as well with bows (ranged) dw or 2nd (melee)

mage nightblades: one of the weakest classes for ganking and dueling, but shine tremendously in group pvp as hybrid dps/heals especially in close quarters combat.

PVE:
stam nightblades, great dual wielders for pve with only weakness lack of heals outside of vigor and few single target stam weapon skills that provide ok healing. other then that even without my stamblade being fully passived or geared it has been pulling nice dps numbers in pve.

mage nightblades: imo one of the best if not the best 4 man dungeon healers and also can provide solid support healing, and emergency healing in trials (havent yet tried to main heal in a vet trial on a nb but have nb healed a nonvet hrc run)

SilentBoomstick

AzuraKin wrote: »

first of all lets me point out some things, PVP AND PVE ARE 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES, AND HOW CLASSES SHOULD BE PLAYED IN VAROUS ROLES IN BOTH PVP AND PVE ARE NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENT AS WELL.

PVP:
stam nightblades: strongest gankers in game. also have solid utility in groups as well with bows (ranged) dw or 2nd (melee)

mage nightblades: one of the weakest classes for ganking and dueling, but shine tremendously in group pvp as hybrid dps/heals especially in close quarters combat.

PVE:
stam nightblades, great dual wielders for pve with only weakness lack of heals outside of vigor and few single target stam weapon skills that provide ok healing. other then that even without my stamblade being fully passived or geared it has been pulling nice dps numbers in pve.

mage nightblades: imo one of the best if not the best 4 man dungeon healers and also can provide solid support healing, and emergency healing in trials (havent yet tried to main heal in a vet trial on a nb but have nb healed a nonvet hrc run)

That is it. They are gankers. We have to stay in stealth to kill people. Pathetic. Not to mention there are so many people that you are not going to be able to kill so what is the point in trying to gank people. Why even play this class for PvP?

IlCanis_LupuslI

Solariken wrote: »

When people talk about cheeseblades, they are really talking about proc-based gank builds. Nightblades in general aren't necessarily cheesy (even though I disagree with the design choice that anyone should be able to maintain nearly 100% uptime on stealth and move at faster-than-sprint speeds while in stealth...).

With that said, stamblades are not underpowered in the least. You have a ton of build freedom while maintaining high burst and survivability. Sure you might not be able to face-tank damage quite as well as a Dk, but that is a trade-off for having much better evasion/utility/mobility/etc. Having access to Incap means you can easily drop the gank sets/skills and build for balance between damage output and self-sustain.

Exactly. In most cases its better to have mediocre damage( for example 3.5k wd is quite enough ) and invest more into substain ability and survivability. Clever alcemist is a ganking set only. If you want to substain go for the good old Hundings rage, marksman setup. And make it all impen. I can also,recommend using shuffle( I know its totally broken but as a stamblade you really need it. As a stamblade your strength is to not take most of the damage thrown at you. Dodgerolling every 4 seks, shuffle and cloaking every 15 seks should be IN YOUR BLOOD if you want to survive.
Ive pretty much played the stamblade class since launch on Xbox and i also,started as a glass cannon build. But more and more I went to investing more and more into survivability. In PvP there is 1 basic rule for all classes. Survivability before Damage. I mean what's the use of having 5k wd if you die after getting sneezed on??? I also can recommend wearing 2 piece bloodspawn for survivability its awesome...

AzuraKin

Kutsuu wrote: »

Just like in any other MMO, the "stealther" class gets tons of hate because of their ability to gank efficiently. Sure other classes can hide, but NBs have the best tools for ganking from stealth and the vast majority of stamblades play a high damage build that can gank pretty well. Why? Well mostly because the more survivable builds that other classes run aren't as good on stam NBs. A skilled player can make it work but if you want to be an out in the open Xv1 skirmisher other classes bring more to the table, so we play to our strengths. Most stamblades end up using very similar skills because some are just too good to take off your bars and people "get tired of dying to the same attacks": Incap, Surprise Attack, Cloak, Ambush, Mass Hysteria to name a few.

Interestingly Magicka NBs can gank almost as well and bring more versatility, survival, and utility to the table. However the fallacy that they are weak is somehow perpetuated around here to the point that people respect you for "out of the box" play if you go Magicka. If it's really bothering you so much that people think you are bad for playing a stam NB, consider a Magblade. One cannot have too many NBs, I have a mag+stam on each faction!

edit: also, if you're having trouble playing stam NB it's not for everyone... but just keep in mind you shouldn't be playing it like a DK and trying to tank "6 hits". Getting a good hang of your animation cancelling, situational awareness, and spatial awareness (having LOS nearby to help escape, etc) changes things a lot.

mageblades are not even close to stam nb's ability to gank, or any stamina dps for that matter. all a mage blade gets is 10% more spell power and 10% more crit damage over other mage dps classes. any stam dps class from stealth can wrecking blow for 2.5x extra damage as well as i have never seen a proper stam crit stealth attack not crit. so if its not guaranteed critical strike then i just been very very very lucky.

Panth141

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

When people talk about cheeseblades, they are really talking about proc-based gank builds. Nightblades in general aren't necessarily cheesy (even though I disagree with the design choice that anyone should be able to maintain nearly 100% uptime on stealth and move at faster-than-sprint speeds while in stealth...).

With that said, stamblades are not underpowered in the least. You have a ton of build freedom while maintaining high burst and survivability. Sure you might not be able to face-tank damage quite as well as a Dk, but that is a trade-off for having much better evasion/utility/mobility/etc. Having access to Incap means you can easily drop the gank sets/skills and build for balance between damage output and self-sustain.

Such lies. That is another thing I am angry about. I never dodge anything with shuffle but in a duel I get so pissed off with people that use shuffle because they avoid like 80% of all my attacks. "Not be able to face-tank damage" "maintain high burst and survivabiity", What planet are you from? Shuffle vigor roll dodge and rally is NOT ENOUGH SUSTAIN. We are the only class that does not have sustain provided. We are not cheesy by any means. We are glass cannons that will die out of stealth. We are the only class that has no freedom to choose anything. Anybody that tells you that nightblades are overpowered is so delusional because they fail to recognize that we are not a flexible class by any means.

There are so many people that you will not be able to burst down no matter how hard you try because they are a tank dps healer. Go walk up to any 561 dk that has a 30 man group riding down then watch how badly it will end well for you simply because everyone is set up to never die. Nightblades are definitely not OP considering everyone has all this tankiness and here I am a glass cannon trying to hit a brick wall that hits like a truck.

Are you trolling? I only say that because you've asked for opinions and explanations, but you go crazy and say that it's 'lies' whenever anyone gives you their thoughts.

Nightblades have been consistently powerful in PvE. Stack a good bit of regen and use Siphoning Attacks and you'll have regen coming out of your backside. Survivability comes from damage avoidance through well timed dodging/disengagement with shadow image/fear to take the pressure off. If you cancel a vigor animation with a dodge roll then you'll have most of your health back when the dodging is finished.

As noted above, most of the hatred towards nightblades is directed at those stacking 3 proc sets and using them to get one-shots off. I agree with this and also dislike these builds - but that's an issue with the current meta, not NBs.

*I've mained a NB since launch - though I've taken him out of PvP recently as the meta is *** right now

Kutsuu

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Just like in any other MMO, the "stealther" class gets tons of hate because of their ability to gank efficiently. Sure other classes can hide, but NBs have the best tools for ganking from stealth and the vast majority of stamblades play a high damage build that can gank pretty well. Why? Well mostly because the more survivable builds that other classes run aren't as good on stam NBs. A skilled player can make it work but if you want to be an out in the open Xv1 skirmisher other classes bring more to the table, so we play to our strengths. Most stamblades end up using very similar skills because some are just too good to take off your bars and people "get tired of dying to the same attacks": Incap, Surprise Attack, Cloak, Ambush, Mass Hysteria to name a few.

Interestingly Magicka NBs can gank almost as well and bring more versatility, survival, and utility to the table. However the fallacy that they are weak is somehow perpetuated around here to the point that people respect you for "out of the box" play if you go Magicka. If it's really bothering you so much that people think you are bad for playing a stam NB, consider a Magblade. One cannot have too many NBs, I have a mag+stam on each faction!

edit: also, if you're having trouble playing stam NB it's not for everyone... but just keep in mind you shouldn't be playing it like a DK and trying to tank "6 hits". Getting a good hang of your animation cancelling, situational awareness, and spatial awareness (having LOS nearby to help escape, etc) changes things a lot.

I pay it like a ganker but now I don't want to do it anymore because it no longer works on people anymore.

Oh no... we can still gank the crap out of anyone with less than 35k HP - more HP than that if you build specifically for ganking. You of course aren't going to gank a sorc who's sitting in mines with a full shield stack up, but if they were to let those shields lapse for a moment or try to get back on their horse...

Kutsuu

AzuraKin wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Just like in any other MMO, the "stealther" class gets tons of hate because of their ability to gank efficiently. Sure other classes can hide, but NBs have the best tools for ganking from stealth and the vast majority of stamblades play a high damage build that can gank pretty well. Why? Well mostly because the more survivable builds that other classes run aren't as good on stam NBs. A skilled player can make it work but if you want to be an out in the open Xv1 skirmisher other classes bring more to the table, so we play to our strengths. Most stamblades end up using very similar skills because some are just too good to take off your bars and people "get tired of dying to the same attacks": Incap, Surprise Attack, Cloak, Ambush, Mass Hysteria to name a few.

Interestingly Magicka NBs can gank almost as well and bring more versatility, survival, and utility to the table. However the fallacy that they are weak is somehow perpetuated around here to the point that people respect you for "out of the box" play if you go Magicka. If it's really bothering you so much that people think you are bad for playing a stam NB, consider a Magblade. One cannot have too many NBs, I have a mag+stam on each faction!

edit: also, if you're having trouble playing stam NB it's not for everyone... but just keep in mind you shouldn't be playing it like a DK and trying to tank "6 hits". Getting a good hang of your animation cancelling, situational awareness, and spatial awareness (having LOS nearby to help escape, etc) changes things a lot.

mageblades are not even close to stam nb's ability to gank, or any stamina dps for that matter. all a mage blade gets is 10% more spell power and 10% more crit damage over other mage dps classes. any stam dps class from stealth can wrecking blow for 2.5x extra damage as well as i have never seen a proper stam crit stealth attack not crit. so if its not guaranteed critical strike then i just been very very very lucky.

Wow thanks for educating me. I guess my mageblade is bugged. I keep ganking people with it. You should report me. Seriously though I get it, you're trying to preserve the story that magicka NBs are bad.

Alucardo

Cheese isn't what class you play, it's what you wear. Sometimes it can reflect how you play also. Nobody likes those Nightblades that attack, go into stealth, attack, go into stealth, attack, go into stealth, etc. That's cheesy as hell.
Their primary spammable DPS ability gives them access to major resolve/ward, where other classes have to use an individual ability, wasting space on their bar. You can go invisible at will with the added benefit of a guaranteed crit as your next attack, or extra damage mitigation. Your cloak also suppresses DoTs, which is something my stam sorc would totally love.
On top of this, stamblades also have other evasive maneuvers, like shadow image, allowing you to take a kill then immediately teleport back to safety, or if the kill fails, still get out mostly in tact.
Basically, right now, Stamblade is the only class that can really safely wear medium armor in PVP. That's what I'm envious about the most. They are one of the best designed classes in the game - not overpowered, not underpowered. Just right. They have the tools to play any role, and in some cases, multiple roles all at once. Not to mention all three of their class ultimates are pretty solid.
But when a Nightblade is wearing 3 proc sets, that's cheese. It's over the top. They can snuff out any medium/light armor wearer before they know what hits them. With some of the best ultimate generation in the game and a low costing physical ultimate that heal debuffs and increases their damage against the target, they're a pain in the ass.
Anyway, if you think your class isn't that great, think again. You have tools available that other classes could only dream of. If you still think Nightblade isn't good, then you're obviously not playing it properly.

Kutsuu

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

When people talk about cheeseblades, they are really talking about proc-based gank builds. Nightblades in general aren't necessarily cheesy (even though I disagree with the design choice that anyone should be able to maintain nearly 100% uptime on stealth and move at faster-than-sprint speeds while in stealth...).

With that said, stamblades are not underpowered in the least. You have a ton of build freedom while maintaining high burst and survivability. Sure you might not be able to face-tank damage quite as well as a Dk, but that is a trade-off for having much better evasion/utility/mobility/etc. Having access to Incap means you can easily drop the gank sets/skills and build for balance between damage output and self-sustain.

Exactly. In most cases its better to have mediocre damage( for example 3.5k wd is quite enough ) and invest more into substain ability and survivability. Clever alcemist is a ganking set only. If you want to substain go for the good old Hundings rage, marksman setup. And make it all impen. I can also,recommend using shuffle( I know its totally broken but as a stamblade you really need it. As a stamblade your strength is to not take most of the damage thrown at you. Dodgerolling every 4 seks, shuffle and cloaking every 15 seks should be IN YOUR BLOOD if you want to survive.
Ive pretty much played the stamblade class since launch on Xbox and i also,started as a glass cannon build. But more and more I went to investing more and more into survivability. In PvP there is 1 basic rule for all classes. Survivability before Damage. I mean what's the use of having 5k wd if you die after getting sneezed on??? I also can recommend wearing 2 piece bloodspawn for survivability its awesome...

Hunding's is decent for a crafted set and good to get started on, but for damage output there are better sets these days. Draugr Hulk especially will outperform hundings on every target, but especially on shields which are all over the place in Cyrodiil. A convenient side effect of Draugr is your stam pool goes through the roof and Redguards especially will rejoice. Spriggan outperforms hundings significantly against non-shielded targets that aren't being overpenetrated (to the tune of roughly 8% overall damage, similar to minor berserk), and isn't far behind against shielded targets. Then there's Viper, which practically outperforms all of these sets - not in susatined damage but in periods of burst. I don't run it at this time, but I do have a set with all the right traits burning a hole in my bank.

Not sure on your blood spawn recommendation though. Velidreth for example is huge for bursting through shield stacks and heavy armor builds. Blood Spawn on the other hand only has a 6% chance to proc when taking damage... that's hardly a reliable enough proc when you're wearing medium armor and you need to be elusive instead of getting pounded on. I'm not really a fan of defensive monster sets on stamina NB though, because I think killing someone is a great way to defend yourself.

Joy_Division

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

When people talk about cheeseblades, they are really talking about proc-based gank builds. Nightblades in general aren't necessarily cheesy (even though I disagree with the design choice that anyone should be able to maintain nearly 100% uptime on stealth and move at faster-than-sprint speeds while in stealth...).

With that said, stamblades are not underpowered in the least. You have a ton of build freedom while maintaining high burst and survivability. Sure you might not be able to face-tank damage quite as well as a Dk, but that is a trade-off for having much better evasion/utility/mobility/etc. Having access to Incap means you can easily drop the gank sets/skills and build for balance between damage output and self-sustain.

Such lies. That is another thing I am angry about. I never dodge anything with shuffle but in a duel I get so pissed off with people that use shuffle because they avoid like 80% of all my attacks. "Not be able to face-tank damage" "maintain high burst and survivabiity", What planet are you from? Shuffle vigor roll dodge and rally is NOT ENOUGH SUSTAIN. We are the only class that does not have sustain provided. We are not cheesy by any means. We are glass cannons that will die out of stealth. We are the only class that has no freedom to choose anything. Anybody that tells you that nightblades are overpowered is so delusional because they fail to recognize that we are not a flexible class by any means.

There are so many people that you will not be able to burst down no matter how hard you try because they are a tank dps healer. Go walk up to any 561 dk that has a 30 man group riding down then watch how badly it will end well for you simply because everyone is set up to never die. Nightblades are definitely not OP considering everyone has all this tankiness and here I am a glass cannon trying to hit a brick wall that hits like a truck.

Stay classy. Calling fellow posters liars who are just offering their assessments of questions you asked.

Takes-No-Prisoner

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I mean, you've got your Pepper-jack Blades, Swiss Blades, Cheddar Blades, Provolone Blades, Feta Blades, Mozzarella Blades, Ricotta Blades, Parmesan Blades... I could go on but you get the picture...

No gouda cheese?

Sandman929

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I mean, you've got your Pepper-jack Blades, Swiss Blades, Cheddar Blades, Provolone Blades, Feta Blades, Mozzarella Blades, Ricotta Blades, Parmesan Blades... I could go on but you get the picture...

No gouda cheese?

That must be magicka cheese....it's not great at first, but it's better over time.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Sandman929 wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I mean, you've got your Pepper-jack Blades, Swiss Blades, Cheddar Blades, Provolone Blades, Feta Blades, Mozzarella Blades, Ricotta Blades, Parmesan Blades... I could go on but you get the picture...

No gouda cheese?

That must be magicka cheese....it's not great at first, but it's better over time.

Like finely aged whine, I do so miss my MagNB

SilentBoomstick

Stay classy. Calling fellow posters liars who are just offering their assessments of questions you asked.[/quote]

You're right. I am just so fed up with this class. My nightblade was my first character and I really wish I would have picked a different class. I die a lot and all I want to do is put a whole in my desk. I can't kill anyone because everyone is wearing the brick wall type meta.

Strider_Roshin

Giving the Nightblade a passive that increases their max stamina by 8% when there's an assassination ability would be more than fair. We also need some form of a healing buff as well. Templars get the strongest heals, a purge, and an offensive shield; DKs have the strongest defense, incredible self healing (Stam DK > Stamplar), and have the best CCs in the game; Sorcs are top dog in the realm of damage shields, and have the best escape in the game; Nightblades have the best 1vX CC in the game, but have nothing for defensive properties outside of cloak which is only effective against crappy players (much like spamming ambush over and over).

Here's the thing, in terms of burst the Nightblade and magicka sorc are top dogs; however unlike the sorc, we don't have a reliable means of defense. ZOS really needs to give us something in terms of stronger healing or survivability.

Sandman929

I think Nightblades have excellent defenses, but they aren't always used by people playing NBs. The Shadow Barrier passive grants Major Ward and Major Resolve just for using (arguably) the best CC in the game(Mass Hysteria), the best spammable DPS in the game(Suprise Attack) and/or an admittedly broken but sometimes useful escape (Cloak).

Other classes get these wards by slotting an ability specifically for them, where NBs get them passively for doing damage. A NB in medium armor definitely gets less benefit since the base time is 2 seconds and gets buffed by Heavy Armor pieces, but still, for one tree, that passive is a huge boost.

One skill alone, Surprise Attack does high damage, major fracture on the enemy, Major Ward and Major Resolve for the caster. Throw in Fear and you can add Minor Maim to the list.

As a class, NBs should be the template to bring other classes up to par.

Xvorg

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

Stay classy. Calling fellow posters liars who are just offering their assessments of questions you asked.

You're right. I am just so fed up with this class. My nightblade was my first character and I really wish I would have picked a different class. I die a lot and all I want to do is put a whole in my desk. I can't kill anyone because everyone is wearing the brick wall type meta.[/quote]

Everyone dies a lot in this game, except those who are really good, or the ones who use the cancer meta to survive. My mageblade can wreck a triprocser but fails at 1vx

GreenSoup2HoT

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Giving the Nightblade a passive that increases their max stamina by 8% when there's an assassination ability would be more than fair. We also need some form of a healing buff as well. Templars get the strongest heals, a purge, and an offensive shield; DKs have the strongest defense, incredible self healing (Stam DK > Stamplar), and have the best CCs in the game; Sorcs are top dog in the realm of damage shields, and have the best escape in the game; Nightblades have the best 1vX CC in the game, but have nothing for defensive properties outside of cloak which is only effective against crappy players (much like spamming ambush over and over).

Here's the thing, in terms of burst the Nightblade and magicka sorc are top dogs; however unlike the sorc, we don't have a reliable means of defense. ZOS really needs to give us something in terms of stronger healing or survivability.

Id rather nb be the class with the worst healing and relie on dodging and being very hard to target.

If nbs got are cloak purge back, we would be fine.

Nestor

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

You're right. I am just so fed up with this class. My nightblade was my first character and I really wish I would have picked a different class. I die a lot and all I want to do is put a whole in my desk. I can't kill anyone because everyone is wearing the brick wall type meta.

Answering as someone who's first character is a NB:

Then Park your Night Blade for a while and play one of the other 3 classes. Having been in this game since early beta, I have seen every class rise to prominence and fall to the basement as they re-balance things. A few months ago, if you weren't a Night Blade, you were not getting kills in PvP. Before that, it was Dragon Knights, before that it was Sorcerers. Playing one class is going to have highs and lows in this game in PvP.

As far as PvE, Nightblades require different tactics than other classes to be successful. They are the hardest to play, but can be the most rewarding if done right. Of course the balance changes in PvP poop all over us in PvE so sometimes our Nightblades just need to be put to sleep for a while. Just like any other class does.

Will Night Blades be on top again? Yes. Will it last forever? No.

Nestor

And, see this, if you want to see what a Stamina Nightblade can be

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/298698/regenerator-health-recovery-high-dmg-burst-pvp-build-one-tamriel/p1

Takes-No-Prisoner

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Giving the Nightblade a passive that increases their max stamina by 8% when there's an assassination ability would be more than fair. We also need some form of a healing buff as well. Templars get the strongest heals, a purge, and an offensive shield; DKs have the strongest defense, incredible self healing (Stam DK > Stamplar), and have the best CCs in the game; Sorcs are top dog in the realm of damage shields, and have the best escape in the game; Nightblades have the best 1vX CC in the game, but have nothing for defensive properties outside of cloak which is only effective against crappy players (much like spamming ambush over and over).

Here's the thing, in terms of burst the Nightblade and magicka sorc are top dogs; however unlike the sorc, we don't have a reliable means of defense. ZOS really needs to give us something in terms of stronger healing or survivability.

Id rather nb be the class with the worst healing and relie on dodging and being very hard to target.

If nbs got are cloak purge back, we would be fine.

Getting the dot suppressor back would also be a trade off I would be fine with. Our Magic counter part has healing down to a T. We, unlike our Magic bros, have access to Vigor. Our counter part needs a Resto staff for big self heals if they don't have Sap Essence/Strife/it's morphs. So if stamina got a heal buff, it would need to make a whole lot of sense where we get it from and it should not overly buff the magic portion.

Maybe putting something like additional healing received on relentless focus or something like that. Drop the Spectral bow proc for the additional healing.