Tank: "It's not my job to debuff." Yeah, right...

Asardes · November 2016

Flameheart wrote: »

...but maybe I am wrong and all PUGs consist of Flawless Conquerers nowdays :-)

I actually got such a PUG once. I queued for random dungeon as tank and got VWGT which was also pledge that day. The other 3 were two stormproofs and a flawless conqueror, all max CP. They were probably pre-made and couldn't find a tank for the pledge so they queued in tool. Needless to say the run was quick and smooth, well under 20 minutes with just 1-2 deaths but no wipes. I've run with many people who beat VMA and I've noticed that they tend to always do the right things - avoid AoE, block and interrupt themselves when I can't and as a result not die and tie down the healer and other DD to res them. The overall DPS is much better, even if their burst DPS is not necessarily higher.

Incidentally one of the best healers I've run with has FC - he keeps everybody at full health while pulling nice DPS. We and his buddy tried the SotH dungeons a couple of days after they came out and beat the hard mode on both on 1st run. To date they are the only people I managed that feat with: VCoS twice, but VRoM only once. The 2nd VCoS HM clear was actually more of a 3 man job, since they picked up a DD which was the opposite - he was so squishy he pushed daisies for 3/4 of the boss fight, and hit the dust again as soon as was resurrected. Those dungeons are really hard. For VRoM I can't even find groups most times, and most people I pick up have no actual clue about the mechanics. Most simply bail out at Xal-Nur after failing them in all possible ways. We try HM a couple of times, with wipe at > 70% boss health, then barely manage the non-HM after additional wipes. Some of the mechanics in the old dungeons took most people by surprised, post-buff too. Most people neither know the mechanics, nor actually pay attention to learn them.

daedalusAI · November 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

The only things that are needed for each role are for the Tank to hold Aggro and stay alive, the DPS to do damage and try not to stand where they shouldn't, and the healer to heal people and try not to stand where they shouldn't. People die sometimes but the only one who's job it is to actually stay alive is the Tank, if he's dying at all he's doing something wrong (which isn't to say I haven't died many times, I was being a bad Tank every time using sub-optimal flavor builds I thought might work and was disabused of that notion in the process of playing them, or just by being stupid and messing up). Everyone should try to stay alive of course, but if the Tank dies that's usually an automatic wipe moreso than with the other rolls, even the healer as long as the Tank has some ability to self-sustain.

I agree with what many others have said about the jobs of a tank with a long list of things to do, but that's for greatest possible effectiveness and that can often be boring to play, and if any game limits builds to a specific setup or else you're "doing it wrong" then that game has serious design issues. I have spent a great deal of time and effort devising different tanking builds, and the core of it is always to hold aggro and stay alive, I only feel like I'm failing if I fail at either of those tasks. That being said I'd never set foot in a hard mode Trial with a flavor build, that would be foolish. Maybe a few powers will be selected because they fit my style, but the rest are by necessity the standard things people expect the best Tanks to use, being optimal in this game usually means using cookie-cutter builds and that's just how it is.

You're not talking about a Hard Mode Trial though, or even a normal Trial, just a Dungeon. Unless the team is wiping (or someone isn't doing their job they assigned for themselves, like the DPS's are hitting like wet noodles, Tank not Taunting/dying a lot, or Healer not healing) there is no reason to ever criticize anyone for their build, if anything Dungeons are usually the place people go to test their builds and/or level up skills and skill lines they haven't used before. If they just aren't doing their job that's one thing, but there is absolutely zero reason to criticize any Tank so long as they're holding aggro and staying alive (of course excepting that they die last or die from being hit by an unbreakable CC or unavoidable attack that their team should be helping with and don't, you guys no the fights I mean, the Flesh Sculptor in ICP or the Atro on Kena in WGT, etc.).

Doing a PUG Dungeon run and holding it against people for being less than optimal is idiotic, it's a sandbox of experimentation and flavor builds and as long as people do their essential jobs then they don't need to be optimal. Speed running is for premade groups, PUGs take as long as they take and if it bothers you when they go long then that's your problem, no one else's. That said so long as you ask someone to do something differently and don't try to suggest they're doing something wrong for not being optimal, then that's fine, and only a jerk would take offense to that. This Tank the OP was talking about was right to say that wasn't his job and the OP was wrong for insisting it was, beyond that I can't comment on if he was being a good Tank or not without having been there. Not a big deal either way though, it was a bit rude to say someone's not doing their job just because they're not being perfect or using the most optimal setup but it's not some kind of serious unforgivable transgression, it's just something you shouldn't have done and hopefully won't again in the future.

I hope you realize ESO is a party game if you venture into group content.

If you only play solo I don't care if you run around naked in your underwear as a vampire with an empty bar and killing enemies with only light attacks with your resto staff - but the moment you step into a dungeon and you either don't do your job or only do the bare minimum I will point my finger at you and criticize you.

What do you mean with essential?
Essential as in taunting a mob as a tank and doing nothing else like the tank from the OP - or essential as this is ESO and buffs/debuffs are a huge part of party play and it's expected that you provide what you can(the only exception are new players which need to learn the game)?

I don't know if I can take you seriously when you agree with this thin-skinned tank from the OP who left after being pointed out he should to more than the bare minimum and even go so far as to put the blame on the OP for pointing that out.

Hey let's make a group for a vet dungeon when my now lvl 48 healer is higher: I will only heal with the essence drain resto staff passive and maybe throw a regeneration when you're < 15% hp.
Going by your logic that should suffice as doing my job.

cbaudersub17_ESO · November 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

What about templar healer who refuses to use shards and repent while other 3 person is stamina user ? says : im not responsible your sustain... /kill

Because repentance if you're a healer does very little. If you're a max stam build you get a much much bigger boost and you're right in the middle of the fight where are the healer won't be in range in most cases.

It is definitely better to run repentance on a stam dps. Give it a test and see how much more stam you get back.

You clearly have no idea how repentance works. It scales from either magicka or stamina depending on which is higher. As you normally have either around 29k or 32-33k stamina on a stamplar depending on if you have a max stamina racial or not and on magicka you have around 36-40k on a healer depending on if you have a slot for inner light or not the healer beats the stamina dd rependes easily.

Can not be 100% sure, but @DRXHarbinger appears to be drawing the benefit distinction on positioning while engaging hostiles. For example, a stamina-based Templar DPS that is played mostly in melee range. In fight, the character is usually in the middle of corpses, or able to easily grab dead spawned boss adds before any de-spawn. Not arguing the mechanics of the ability, because 1:1 you are correct. But the gap can be closed (or widened) by X:Y beneficial casts of opportunity while in combat.

xblackroxe · November 2016

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

What about templar healer who refuses to use shards and repent while other 3 person is stamina user ? says : im not responsible your sustain... /kill

Because repentance if you're a healer does very little. If you're a max stam build you get a much much bigger boost and you're right in the middle of the fight where are the healer won't be in range in most cases.

It is definitely better to run repentance on a stam dps. Give it a test and see how much more stam you get back.

You clearly have no idea how repentance works. It scales from either magicka or stamina depending on which is higher. As you normally have either around 29k or 32-33k stamina on a stamplar depending on if you have a max stamina racial or not and on magicka you have around 36-40k on a healer depending on if you have a slot for inner light or not the healer beats the stamina dd rependes easily.

Can not be 100% sure, but @DRXHarbinger appears to be drawing the benefit distinction on positioning while engaging hostiles. For example, a stamina-based Templar DPS that is played mostly in melee range. In fight, the character is usually in the middle of corpses, or able to easily grab dead spawned boss adds before any de-spawn. Not arguing the mechanics of the ability, because 1:1 you are correct. But the gap can be closed (or widened) by X:Y beneficial casts of opportunity while in combat.

Well true on what you say but in most trash packs its better for the healer to kinda stack with the dds/ tank so that if some mob is not taunted it will naturally go on a dd for initial aggro as this can be drawn by simply damagein the mob. And even if the healer doesn't really stack he still should be in range to heal everybody which mostly means that everybody gets the repentance anyways.

Also templar dds are much rarer than templar healers anyway so the chance of being the only templar in the group as healer is pretty high.

Flameheart · November 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

...but maybe I am wrong and all PUGs consist of Flawless Conquerers nowdays :-)

I actually got such a PUG once. I queued for random dungeon as tank and got VWGT which was also pledge that day. The other 3 were two stormproofs and a flawless conqueror, all max CP. They were probably pre-made and couldn't find a tank for the pledge so they queued in tool. Needless to say the run was quick and smooth, well under 20 minutes with just 1-2 deaths but no wipes. I've run with many people who beat VMA and I've noticed that they tend to always do the right things - avoid AoE, block and interrupt themselves when I can't and as a result not die and tie down the healer and other DD to res them. The overall DPS is much better, even if their burst DPS is not necessarily higher.

Incidentally one of the best healers I've run with has FC - he keeps everybody at full health while pulling nice DPS. We and his buddy tried the SotH dungeons a couple of days after they came out and beat the hard mode on both on 1st run. To date they are the only people I managed that feat with: VCoS twice, but VRoM only once. The 2nd VCoS HM clear was actually more of a 3 man job, since they picked up a DD which was the opposite - he was so squishy he pushed daisies for 3/4 of the boss fight, and hit the dust again as soon as was resurrected. Those dungeons are really hard. For VRoM I can't even find groups most times, and most people I pick up have no actual clue about the mechanics. Most simply bail out at Xal-Nur after failing them in all possible ways. We try HM a couple of times, with wipe at > 70% boss health, then barely manage the non-HM after additional wipes. Some of the mechanics in the old dungeons took most people by surprised, post-buff too. Most people neither know the mechanics, nor actually pay attention to learn them.

I made a similar experience. I got a PUG without any tank, just 3 DDs and a healer and it was a blast. It was not just nice dps, the run itself was ultrafast. It was like pulling all former trash groups into the next boss and burning down everything, while laughing at the boss.

...but as already mentioned, this may work even with 3 players of that lvl, but not just 1 or 2 and to get such a group is a 1 in 100+ chance or worse. So better use a conservative group set up where everybody knows his role and does his job.

brandonv516 · November 2016

Its not my job to do anything. I'm just there for the farm.

Asardes · November 2016

Most trash packs can be healed by a Templar healer by simply dropping channeled focus in the middle of it, spamming puncturing sweep as added AoE and prefferably a pulsar at the beginning to soften them up a bit, and repenting the dead as soon as they drop for constant health and stamina regeneration. With two stamina DDs - preferably sorcs for the extra hurricane power - spamming steel tornado and a stamina DK tank barfing their armor down, chaining in the odd straggler and keeping them tied up with talons and cinder storm, even hitting ingenous shields from time to time to keep people safe - those also give minor brutality because of class passive - they will melt like butter in no time. If non sorc DDs the DK must run ingenous weapons for the major brutality. He can run it even if they are sorcs - those will keep crit surge up anyway - so the Templar gets the major sorcery without the need to use pots or entropy.

That's what I would call a nice example of skill synergy in a group.

Majic · November 2016

I'm such a badass tank, I don't even taunt.

No sissies allowed in MY PUG!

cpuScientist · November 2016

rustic_potato wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

Doesn't pierce armor override Ele Drain? Healers don't tend to like that.

It was a bug a long time ago. No longer applies.

Lucius_Aelius · November 2016

daedalusAI wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

The only things that are needed for each role are for the Tank to hold Aggro and stay alive, the DPS to do damage and try not to stand where they shouldn't, and the healer to heal people and try not to stand where they shouldn't. People die sometimes but the only one who's job it is to actually stay alive is the Tank, if he's dying at all he's doing something wrong (which isn't to say I haven't died many times, I was being a bad Tank every time using sub-optimal flavor builds I thought might work and was disabused of that notion in the process of playing them, or just by being stupid and messing up). Everyone should try to stay alive of course, but if the Tank dies that's usually an automatic wipe moreso than with the other rolls, even the healer as long as the Tank has some ability to self-sustain.

I agree with what many others have said about the jobs of a tank with a long list of things to do, but that's for greatest possible effectiveness and that can often be boring to play, and if any game limits builds to a specific setup or else you're "doing it wrong" then that game has serious design issues. I have spent a great deal of time and effort devising different tanking builds, and the core of it is always to hold aggro and stay alive, I only feel like I'm failing if I fail at either of those tasks. That being said I'd never set foot in a hard mode Trial with a flavor build, that would be foolish. Maybe a few powers will be selected because they fit my style, but the rest are by necessity the standard things people expect the best Tanks to use, being optimal in this game usually means using cookie-cutter builds and that's just how it is.

You're not talking about a Hard Mode Trial though, or even a normal Trial, just a Dungeon. Unless the team is wiping (or someone isn't doing their job they assigned for themselves, like the DPS's are hitting like wet noodles, Tank not Taunting/dying a lot, or Healer not healing) there is no reason to ever criticize anyone for their build, if anything Dungeons are usually the place people go to test their builds and/or level up skills and skill lines they haven't used before. If they just aren't doing their job that's one thing, but there is absolutely zero reason to criticize any Tank so long as they're holding aggro and staying alive (of course excepting that they die last or die from being hit by an unbreakable CC or unavoidable attack that their team should be helping with and don't, you guys no the fights I mean, the Flesh Sculptor in ICP or the Atro on Kena in WGT, etc.).

Doing a PUG Dungeon run and holding it against people for being less than optimal is idiotic, it's a sandbox of experimentation and flavor builds and as long as people do their essential jobs then they don't need to be optimal. Speed running is for premade groups, PUGs take as long as they take and if it bothers you when they go long then that's your problem, no one else's. That said so long as you ask someone to do something differently and don't try to suggest they're doing something wrong for not being optimal, then that's fine, and only a jerk would take offense to that. This Tank the OP was talking about was right to say that wasn't his job and the OP was wrong for insisting it was, beyond that I can't comment on if he was being a good Tank or not without having been there. Not a big deal either way though, it was a bit rude to say someone's not doing their job just because they're not being perfect or using the most optimal setup but it's not some kind of serious unforgivable transgression, it's just something you shouldn't have done and hopefully won't again in the future.

I hope you realize ESO is a party game if you venture into group content.

If you only play solo I don't care if you run around naked in your underwear as a vampire with an empty bar and killing enemies with only light attacks with your resto staff - but the moment you step into a dungeon and you either don't do your job or only do the bare minimum I will point my finger at you and criticize you.

What do you mean with essential?
Essential as in taunting a mob as a tank and doing nothing else like the tank from the OP - or essential as this is ESO and buffs/debuffs are a huge part of party play and it's expected that you provide what you can(the only exception are new players which need to learn the game)?

I don't know if I can take you seriously when you agree with this thin-skinned tank from the OP who left after being pointed out he should to more than the bare minimum and even go so far as to put the blame on the OP for pointing that out.

Hey let's make a group for a vet dungeon when my now lvl 48 healer is higher: I will only heal with the essence drain resto staff passive and maybe throw a regeneration when you're < 15% hp.
Going by your logic that should suffice as doing my job.

You're entirely missing the point though, there's a difference between pulling your weight and being optimal, and as long as DPS's are doing decent damage (enough to clear any DPS checks and not get swarmed by adds), Healers are healing and Tanks are holding Aggro and staying alive, that's par for the course. If you want to do better than par then you need to optimize, but in the less challenging content of PUG Dungeons (compared to Trials or speedruns in either Dungeons or Trials) it's simply not necessary to be optimal as long as you're satisfactory.

And the fact is that satisfactory is all anyone needs to be for anything, but different content with different difficulty levels have different standards, and Dungeons can be managed just fine with any range of sub-optimal builds so long as the people using them are competent and know the fight. This is not a discussion about speedrunning Vet Hard Mode Trials, which have much higher standards and require maximally optimized builds for a player to be satisfactory. Suggesting relatively easy content should have the same standards as the hardest group content in the game is preposterous and laughable, and you need to l2p if you think otherwise.

If you want to set higher standards for your Dungeon runs then you're allowed to, but not when PUGing, that attitude belongs in premade groups and only premade groups. If they add Vet Hard Mode Trials to the group finder then sure that'd be different and even when PUGing you'd need to be fully optimized and should expect all others you get matched with to be also, but Dungeons are more about knowledge of mechanics than anything else and competent players don't need to be playing a superleet build to pull their weight just fine.

HeroOfNone · November 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Did he keep the boss taunted?
Did you kill the boss?

I don't see thst much of an issue here.

He might not run the debuff to give your team a damage boost, but most of us can adapt to different builds. Some bosses may take longer due to group makeup and mechanics, but as long as they die I'm the end it really doesn't matter too much.

I also don't know what the OP'S attitude to this player was but I would give a word of caution to anyone brow beating folks into a meta. Be kind and offer help when folks ask for help, adjust your builds to suit the group, and don't tell folks "how" to play unsolicited, you're being toxic and it sucks to deal with you.

We're here to have fun after all, not to be micromanaged because you red a guide or because your friends did it in a certain way.

Another guy who didn't read or understand any of my comments...

I did read through, but I didn't really agree with most of it. You should look at results as "the boss is dead" and it sounds like they didn't ask for an opinion, so simply don't give one. You can roll the dice on giving advice, but his reaction is typical of anyone that got the job done and then gets criticized for it.

newtinmpls wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Have you seen him stream? Seriously, he's a scary demon kitty...

Is he fun? Is he personable? Does he actually 'splain things?

I used to try and learn from some of @Deltia 's videos - then ran into a few that were along the lines of "when you are with a perfectly optimized group" (with no explanation of what the heck that means, because apparently everyone who follows streamers knows this already) and the min-maxeness of it just lost me.

I became allergic to streamers when several-who-shall-not-be-named-by-me started claiming things that sounded a heck of a lot like sunlight was streaming out of parts unmentioned and that they and their ilk were the be-all and end-all of ESO greatness.

And then I happened to run into one of them by being ganked 3-4 times in a row in IC. I was about level 18 (something below 20) and this jerk who was CP a billion clearly went out of his/her way to troll me. Really? I could not possibly have been any kind of challenge. And I had no damn time to accumulate any telvar stones.

So likely no.... not much for streaming.

Anyway.. I'm still new to tanking, and this has been an interesting thread.

I don't run what most guides run, since I typically have to bridge the gap between pugs that read some guide, PVP folks that don't have the gear, and new folks that have their first time in a dungeon. I love it though, spending an hour+ with a group trying hard to learn beats out the boring meta crowd that *** if we aren't in and out in under 15 minutes, like we're delivering a pizza. You can find a few examples on my youtube though.

Meanwhile, speaking about guides, I might put out another few discussing "adapting roles" since it seems to be an issue folks are running into again. That's the issue when most of these guides are having you memorize a method rather than teach a process.

cbaudersub17_ESO · November 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

What about templar healer who refuses to use shards and repent while other 3 person is stamina user ? says : im not responsible your sustain... /kill

Because repentance if you're a healer does very little. If you're a max stam build you get a much much bigger boost and you're right in the middle of the fight where are the healer won't be in range in most cases.

It is definitely better to run repentance on a stam dps. Give it a test and see how much more stam you get back.

You clearly have no idea how repentance works. It scales from either magicka or stamina depending on which is higher. As you normally have either around 29k or 32-33k stamina on a stamplar depending on if you have a max stamina racial or not and on magicka you have around 36-40k on a healer depending on if you have a slot for inner light or not the healer beats the stamina dd rependes easily.

Can not be 100% sure, but @DRXHarbinger appears to be drawing the benefit distinction on positioning while engaging hostiles. For example, a stamina-based Templar DPS that is played mostly in melee range. In fight, the character is usually in the middle of corpses, or able to easily grab dead spawned boss adds before any de-spawn. Not arguing the mechanics of the ability, because 1:1 you are correct. But the gap can be closed (or widened) by X:Y beneficial casts of opportunity while in combat.

Well true on what you say but in most trash packs its better for the healer to kinda stack with the dds/ tank so that if some mob is not taunted it will naturally go on a dd for initial aggro as this can be drawn by simply damagein the mob. And even if the healer doesn't really stack he still should be in range to heal everybody which mostly means that everybody gets the repentance anyways.

Also templar dds are much rarer than templar healers anyway so the chance of being the only templar in the group as healer is pretty high.

@xblackroxe: I think you might like meeting my Bubba. He has been performing quite well with handling initial aggro

. Who runs Repentance will be such a small thing compared to the glorious digital carnage! 

AtmaDarkwolf · November 2016

yup.

Don't sass the tank.

remember they are absolute kings of this game, and the simple fact one of them decided to grace us with their most godly presence, we should be handing them any and all valuable loot we find. Plus 500g per mob we kill.

Cuz' tanks.

I've had ENDLESS bad experiences with tanks, (to be fair i run a lot of dungeons and NOT 'most' are ***, but a LARGE percentage of tanks, compared to healers or dps, among their respective groups, feel they are doing us all a huge favor/service by tanking

I've had the op's story happen to me multiple times, have had tanks NOT taunt and have the above, have had tanks claim they have the best gear in the game (Example: tormentors set...lol) and claim they have 'three taunts' yet the bosses run all over the place, and kill everyone, have had tanks *** talk dps for dying to one shots BECAUSE the tank isn't keeping agro, and so on.

Its of course always YOUR fault if they die.

And yes, either you get a facefull of scathing venomous insults, or the said tank just drops group, if you DARE to suggest (EVEN in respectful NON insulting or pretentious manner)

And once more, just to be clear, i don't mean 'most' tanks, i simply mean, amount each the respective roles, the largest amount of people within each group with this attitude are tanks.

rustic_potato · November 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

For dummies you say?
So for what situations the Ransack is better?

PVE? None
PVP? Every

@xblackroxe So my guild makes tanks use ransack citing that pierce armor overrides ele drain buff.. Not really sure who is correct anymore..

Destruent · November 2016

rustic_potato wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

For dummies you say?
So for what situations the Ransack is better?

PVE? None
PVP? Every

@xblackroxe So my guild makes tanks use ransack citing that pierce armor overrides ele drain buff.. Not really sure who is correct anymore..

This bug does not exist anymore.

HeroOfNone · November 2016

rustic_potato wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

For dummies you say?
So for what situations the Ransack is better?

PVE? None
PVP? Every

@xblackroxe So my guild makes tanks use ransack citing that pierce armor overrides ele drain buff.. Not really sure who is correct anymore..

Both give major breech debuff. Ransack will give you minor resolve though, but you have other sources for that like stone fist. Elemental drain is generally used for the magic return though.

idk · November 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Good point. However, if the tank moves away from the last boss it pulls her out of her deadly aoe allowing melee dps to do their work and the tank can still use pierce armor. The room is large enough to pull her both directions easily. Something tells me you already know this.

And this is exactly why I prefer the ranged taunt for that fight. I need to range her to pull her out of the AoE. A traditional tank would typically use both taunts for that fight: one for when you're kiting, and one for debuffing. A nightblade tank has the luxury of doing the debuff from range.

True.

idk · November 2016

rustic_potato wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

There are too many "tanks" in this game that have no clue.

Oh and ransack is for dummies. Be a man, use pierce armor ffs.

For dummies you say?
So for what situations the Ransack is better?

PVE? None
PVP? Every

@xblackroxe So my guild makes tanks use ransack citing that pierce armor overrides ele drain buff.. Not really sure who is correct anymore..

The appearance that pierce armor removes ele drain is a graphics bug. It remains.

Using both pierce armor and ele drain guarantees uptime of the debuff. Additionally, it's probably more of a challenge to keep ele drain up on all trash mobs so pierce armor offers an additional plus to ensure mobs die faster. Even more so when running with less experienced healers who may have more of a challenge keeping ele drain up.

cbaudersub17_ESO · November 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Good point. However, if the tank moves away from the last boss it pulls her out of her deadly aoe allowing melee dps to do their work and the tank can still use pierce armor. The room is large enough to pull her both directions easily. Something tells me you already know this.

And this is exactly why I prefer the ranged taunt for that fight. I need to range her to pull her out of the AoE. A traditional tank would typically use both taunts for that fight: one for when you're kiting, and one for debuffing. A nightblade tank has the luxury of doing the debuff from range.

True.

Wait...what? Is this the one in a million or are we up to two in a million now?

idk · November 2016

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Good point. However, if the tank moves away from the last boss it pulls her out of her deadly aoe allowing melee dps to do their work and the tank can still use pierce armor. The room is large enough to pull her both directions easily. Something tells me you already know this.

And this is exactly why I prefer the ranged taunt for that fight. I need to range her to pull her out of the AoE. A traditional tank would typically use both taunts for that fight: one for when you're kiting, and one for debuffing. A nightblade tank has the luxury of doing the debuff from range.

True.

Wait...what? Is this the one in a million or are we up to two in a million now?

The person I quoted, I don't think I've ever seen anything he's posted that's wrong. He's appears not only knowledgeable of the game but also experienced. His posts are well thought out and logical.

If you look at the history you'll see it's actually a discussion. Even though we approach the fight differently even when the same skills are available, we still accomplish the same thing.

In fact, he made me think of doing a different fight in a differnt manner even though its was completely outside of this conversation.

Drummerx04 · November 2016

Ir0nB34r wrote: »

Mag Sorc Tank here.. If you got the shards I got the Ransack.

Well, I have Ransack regardless. I spam it probably more often than I need to.

I would kill for an AOE taunt. Seriously.

Mag Sorc tank as well...

Dark Deal: Stamina for days generated from behind a 30k shield and 30k resistances. Shards pretty much irrelevant.

G0ku · November 2016

Mr_Apollo wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Tanks are useless in 4 man dungeons

Sure, im pretty darn sure if tanks were useless then they wouldn't be a choice in the game, no? Not to mention, that im pretty sure many of the dungeons are a pain in the ass without a tank to keep that boss who oneshots you still. THAT and im sure the debuffs and that critical damage increase will definitely be a big reason to bring a tank. So basically reasons to bring tank:
Can keep bosses, and trash still in one place for easier kills from DD

Can maximise DD DPS

Can debuff boss by a massive amount

Works as a support

Reasons to NOT bring a tank
Dungeon takes slightly longer due to not as much DPS

....

I think Ill take a tank to 4 man dungeons any time of the day

Asardes wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Tanks are useless in 4 man dungeons

Yep. I've heard that getting hit by Velidreth "corpulence" as 18K HP DD is totally survivable. And Xal-Nur the slaver does not even fear-break aggro-charge so why should anyone interrupt him? Not to mention the Overfiend and Abomination, whose cleave attacks are light as a feather

Whatever works best for you, if you need one, get one. Just sayin, if you need a tank for these there should be other worries than if the tank uses ranged taunt or s/b taunt.

Paraflex · November 2016

Omg people who say "it's not my job" are the same people at work that *** about "it's not my job" totally useless people.

Bowser · November 2016

If your pug tank is holding aggro and not dying then stop whining.

raj72616a · November 2016

to the people who say the tank just need to "hold the aggro" . do you notice that quite a number of dungeon bosses dont aggro on the tank no matter how many taunts are used, and simply chase after anyone they like? i'm not talking abt bug or overtaunting. some bosses are simply programmed to ignore taunt.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Doesn't matter which class, all classes have the same tasks as a tank and you can use the same sets on all classes to help and support your group. I'm not playing DK-tank atm either...but still, gearing up is exactly the same like it is on DK. You just have to adjust your playstyle a little bit.

Since this is not true of any other role, it seems highly unlikely to be somehow miraculously true of tanking.

My Orsimer Stam Sorc has a very different build and very different equipment than my Altmer Mag Sorc Pet Build.

Dredlord · November 2016

Hes a magica tank and he is using the magica taunt. Yes pierce is better in most situations and that is ultimately irrelevant in this discussion.

In his build he clearly valued other skills over that one and he was fulfilling his basic role. The fact he isnt providing the debuff you were looking for doesnt mean someone else cant or shouldnt be doing it.

Maybe his build could be better, maybe your attitude could be too...

clv · November 2016

A tank without penetration is absolutely useless, a DPS could slot Harness and taunt and be just as effective

Dredlord · November 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

I have a Magicka Sap Tank, and he thinks that guy's an idiot

I got a mag Dragonknight tank, a mag Nightblade tank and a mag Templar tank/healer.

They all think that guy is an idiot.

I've got an argonian stamina sorcerer hybrid tank and I think I'm an idiot

Do we finally have a signed confession?

newtinmpls · November 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Also templar dds are much rarer than templar healers anyway so the chance of being the only templar in the group as healer is pretty high.

I see a ton of them. I rarely run in a group with only one Templar. Recently ran with a group where it was one of the DPSs that was running repentance - not sure how it worked out that way (I didn't know either of them) but nobody died and we did the dungeon just fine so it worked.