Very interesting.

fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »

What do you guys think about it ? So that destro and resto staff could work together with a shield, and have different skill sets as in "Destro staff and shield", "Resto staff and shield" ?

There have been several different posts in threads which basically want to (as a part of serious rebalancing effort) take all the two-handed weapons and add in a "second element" such as arrows for bows, maybe a pommel or guard or sheathe for greatsword, and maybe a headpiece or orb for staves. The idea was that these "second pieces" would be slotted into the shield/second weapon slot allowing ALL weapons to have a 5/5/2 possible gear set available - normalizing all the weapons - all the same - identical - no difference - as far as set count goes.

Again, this would have to be a part of a more significant weapon rebalancing - it would eliminate the "extra damage" on light attacks for instance of 2h weapons and something would have to give about bow and staff and "damage at range vs damage close" for instance.

it would also EQUALIZE the acquisition costs:
have to quality gold up two pieces for greatsword just like you do for dual wield swords - so 16 golds tempers not 8.
have to farm/grind until you found the optimal pair of greatsword/pommel-stone or inferno staff/headpiece traits sets, just like trying to find two set swords from bosses chests... unlike now when one lucky greatsword drop and you are done vs needing two lucky dagger drops for dw.

basically doubles the grind time for 2h weapons from what it is now but hey, gotta be same, equal etc.

While again not usually a fan of more sameifying, i could live with this kinda change.

Adding a staff/shield is an ok option for me but rather than that i would like to see the main staff lines now divided - have an ice a fire and a lightning separate with more differences than just the often morph based secondary effects.

Doubt we will see any of them but a lot of possibilities to increase the variety for magical weaponry.

You mean spear and shield.

hmmmmm, not sure about staff (some of the staves are ginormous - just found out, ginormous is an actual word, taken from our friends across the pond ) and shield - maybe wand and shield would be better...I do like the idea of a spear and shield though...

ValkynSketha wrote: »

You mean spear and shield.

No, I think he means staff and shield.
And cape, while we're at it.

STEVIL wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

would hugely imbalance the whole game though

Not sure I agree TBH.

In PvE 2H weapons are at a substantial DPS disadvantage to DW. Even at low levels the difference is pretty noticeable. 2H isn't so great with AoE, though it can compete pre-Maelstorm wepaons with ani-canceled reverse-slash spam (though the sustain on 2H is quite good. I enjoy running a 2-hander on my stamtank as a buff/trashclear bar) Mealstorm weapons in particular make the damage difference massive.

Bow parses out as absolute lowest-tier damage, if I recall right, and the only advantage is you can stack bow DPS on top of other DPS with volly/poison injection (Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't stamDPS). Even then, stamina DPS is generally outclassed by magicka.

Destro/Resto staves are used to an extent, but many magickabuilds STILL go DW for the set bonuses and doubled enchantments.

In PvP 2H weapons see a lot of use due to Rally, but the proc meta basically mandates DW or S+B on one of your bars for maximum damage output. Running a 2H Essentially locks you out of a ranged option in exchange for rally. Plus dizzying/wreaking blow are ridiculously hard to land against no-potatoes.

Basically. Bow and two-hand weapons are equal or worse than alternatives in most situations, with only a handful of edge cases (safe, dot for bow. Rally and an early execute for 2H PvP only). I can't comment on destro staff, and including restoration staves in this argument is kind of silly for what they are supposed to do.

Whatever change occurs it needs to be part of an overall balance fix - where issues like "but with VMSA daggers" and "FOTM proc meta" and so on all playing a role and getting their parts changed.

it wasnt too long ago that the go-to-must have was 2H swords/maces wehatever (for rally and wrecking blow and executioner and gap closers etc) and definitely light/med armor cuz hvy was waste of time against the higher pens.

u13 will introduce new balance changes.

Weapon capabilities will need to be a part of that.

But indeed mael daggers are a big part of the current FotM.

And yes some magica builds do forego on at least one bar the DW swords for the set bonus plus spell damage trait increase. But usually, depending on build, the main combat swap is to destro for the weave gains and passives which healp a lot with sustain. DW swords wont help your magica much at all... while destro staves add a lot of sustain plus the hvy attack feed.In some cases the higher DPS yields come from DW on one bar and staff on the other which is more interesting than staff on both to be sure.

In PvP, I've found it important to run a staff/stamina weapon combo for the HA heavy attack regen. Though it's more dangerous to be stuck in melee trying to heavy attack to gain stamina, it gives me enough to block a few more attacks or enough for one dodge roll.

Minno wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

would hugely imbalance the whole game though

Not sure I agree TBH.

In PvE 2H weapons are at a substantial DPS disadvantage to DW. Even at low levels the difference is pretty noticeable. 2H isn't so great with AoE, though it can compete pre-Maelstorm wepaons with ani-canceled reverse-slash spam (though the sustain on 2H is quite good. I enjoy running a 2-hander on my stamtank as a buff/trashclear bar) Mealstorm weapons in particular make the damage difference massive.

Bow parses out as absolute lowest-tier damage, if I recall right, and the only advantage is you can stack bow DPS on top of other DPS with volly/poison injection (Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't stamDPS). Even then, stamina DPS is generally outclassed by magicka.

Destro/Resto staves are used to an extent, but many magickabuilds STILL go DW for the set bonuses and doubled enchantments.

In PvP 2H weapons see a lot of use due to Rally, but the proc meta basically mandates DW or S+B on one of your bars for maximum damage output. Running a 2H Essentially locks you out of a ranged option in exchange for rally. Plus dizzying/wreaking blow are ridiculously hard to land against no-potatoes.

Basically. Bow and two-hand weapons are equal or worse than alternatives in most situations, with only a handful of edge cases (safe, dot for bow. Rally and an early execute for 2H PvP only). I can't comment on destro staff, and including restoration staves in this argument is kind of silly for what they are supposed to do.

Whatever change occurs it needs to be part of an overall balance fix - where issues like "but with VMSA daggers" and "FOTM proc meta" and so on all playing a role and getting their parts changed.

it wasnt too long ago that the go-to-must have was 2H swords/maces wehatever (for rally and wrecking blow and executioner and gap closers etc) and definitely light/med armor cuz hvy was waste of time against the higher pens.

u13 will introduce new balance changes.

Weapon capabilities will need to be a part of that.

But indeed mael daggers are a big part of the current FotM.

And yes some magica builds do forego on at least one bar the DW swords for the set bonus plus spell damage trait increase. But usually, depending on build, the main combat swap is to destro for the weave gains and passives which healp a lot with sustain. DW swords wont help your magica much at all... while destro staves add a lot of sustain plus the hvy attack feed.In some cases the higher DPS yields come from DW on one bar and staff on the other which is more interesting than staff on both to be sure.

In PvP, I've found it important to run a staff/stamina weapon combo for the HA heavy attack regen. Though it's more dangerous to be stuck in melee trying to heavy attack to gain stamina, it gives me enough to block a few more attacks or enough for one dodge roll.

fair enough.

For me, mist form is my lowstam option for magicas but... i get your point.

Also, FWIW in one of the many what sorcs needs threads one of my suggests was to take dark exchange and let its normal morph add "non-staff weapon attacks scale off spell damage and return magica (hvy) instead of stamina for 10-20s" instead of reduced cost of sta to further support the sword-mage concept (not stam sorc but the magsorc sword).

Thought it might make the sword-sustain issue a bit better while giving dark exc something extra and maybe unique.

Introducing New skill lines!

Spell and Shield

Bound Weapons

Boom magic buffs!

I wish, resto staff/shield I'd be immortal.

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I wish, resto staff/shield I'd be immortal.

You'd still be knockable down and torn to pieces.

YESSSSSS