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Should there be "Staff and Shield" skill lines ?
What do you guys think about it ? So that destro and resto staff could work together with a shield, and have different skill sets as in "Destro staff and shield", "Resto staff and shield" ?
"Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »What do you guys think about it ? So that destro and resto staff could work together with a shield, and have different skill sets as in "Destro staff and shield", "Resto staff and shield" ?
There have been several different posts in threads which basically want to (as a part of serious rebalancing effort) take all the two-handed weapons and add in a "second element" such as arrows for bows, maybe a pommel or guard or sheathe for greatsword, and maybe a headpiece or orb for staves. The idea was that these "second pieces" would be slotted into the shield/second weapon slot allowing ALL weapons to have a 5/5/2 possible gear set available - normalizing all the weapons - all the same - identical - no difference - as far as set count goes.
Again, this would have to be a part of a more significant weapon rebalancing - it would eliminate the "extra damage" on light attacks for instance of 2h weapons and something would have to give about bow and staff and "damage at range vs damage close" for instance.
it would also EQUALIZE the acquisition costs:
have to quality gold up two pieces for greatsword just like you do for dual wield swords - so 16 golds tempers not 8.
have to farm/grind until you found the optimal pair of greatsword/pommel-stone or inferno staff/headpiece traits sets, just like trying to find two set swords from bosses chests... unlike now when one lucky greatsword drop and you are done vs needing two lucky dagger drops for dw.
basically doubles the grind time for 2h weapons from what it is now but hey, gotta be same, equal etc.
While again not usually a fan of more sameifying, i could live with this kinda change.
Adding a staff/shield is an ok option for me but rather than that i would like to see the main staff lines now divided - have an ice a fire and a lightning separate with more differences than just the often morph based secondary effects.
Doubt we will see any of them but a lot of possibilities to increase the variety for magical weaponry.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭If you want to add a weapon line my choice would be spears both a one hand and two hand variety. Honestly I would like staves become secondary to actually casting a spell.1
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmmmmm, not sure about staff (some of the staves are ginormous - just found out, ginormous is an actual word, taken from our friends across the pond
) and shield - maybe wand and shield would be better...I do like the idea of a spear and shield though... Edited by geonsocal on November 7, 2016 5:57PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭would hugely imbalance the whole game though
Not sure I agree TBH.
In PvE 2H weapons are at a substantial DPS disadvantage to DW. Even at low levels the difference is pretty noticeable. 2H isn't so great with AoE, though it can compete pre-Maelstorm wepaons with ani-canceled reverse-slash spam (though the sustain on 2H is quite good. I enjoy running a 2-hander on my stamtank as a buff/trashclear bar) Mealstorm weapons in particular make the damage difference massive.
Bow parses out as absolute lowest-tier damage, if I recall right, and the only advantage is you can stack bow DPS on top of other DPS with volly/poison injection (Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't stamDPS). Even then, stamina DPS is generally outclassed by magicka.
Destro/Resto staves are used to an extent, but many magickabuilds STILL go DW for the set bonuses and doubled enchantments.
In PvP 2H weapons see a lot of use due to Rally, but the proc meta basically mandates DW or S+B on one of your bars for maximum damage output. Running a 2H Essentially locks you out of a ranged option in exchange for rally. Plus dizzying/wreaking blow are ridiculously hard to land against no-potatoes.
Basically. Bow and two-hand weapons are equal or worse than alternatives in most situations, with only a handful of edge cases (safe, dot for bow. Rally and an early execute for 2H PvP only). I can't comment on destro staff, and including restoration staves in this argument is kind of silly for what they are supposed to do."Adapt. or Die."1 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ValkynSketha wrote: »You mean spear and shield.
No, I think he means staff and shield.
And cape, while we're at it.
signing off1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭would hugely imbalance the whole game though
Not sure I agree TBH.
In PvE 2H weapons are at a substantial DPS disadvantage to DW. Even at low levels the difference is pretty noticeable. 2H isn't so great with AoE, though it can compete pre-Maelstorm wepaons with ani-canceled reverse-slash spam (though the sustain on 2H is quite good. I enjoy running a 2-hander on my stamtank as a buff/trashclear bar) Mealstorm weapons in particular make the damage difference massive.
Bow parses out as absolute lowest-tier damage, if I recall right, and the only advantage is you can stack bow DPS on top of other DPS with volly/poison injection (Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't stamDPS). Even then, stamina DPS is generally outclassed by magicka.
Destro/Resto staves are used to an extent, but many magickabuilds STILL go DW for the set bonuses and doubled enchantments.
In PvP 2H weapons see a lot of use due to Rally, but the proc meta basically mandates DW or S+B on one of your bars for maximum damage output. Running a 2H Essentially locks you out of a ranged option in exchange for rally. Plus dizzying/wreaking blow are ridiculously hard to land against no-potatoes.
Basically. Bow and two-hand weapons are equal or worse than alternatives in most situations, with only a handful of edge cases (safe, dot for bow. Rally and an early execute for 2H PvP only). I can't comment on destro staff, and including restoration staves in this argument is kind of silly for what they are supposed to do.
Whatever change occurs it needs to be part of an overall balance fix - where issues like "but with VMSA daggers" and "FOTM proc meta" and so on all playing a role and getting their parts changed.
it wasnt too long ago that the go-to-must have was 2H swords/maces wehatever (for rally and wrecking blow and executioner and gap closers etc) and definitely light/med armor cuz hvy was waste of time against the higher pens.
u13 will introduce new balance changes.
Weapon capabilities will need to be a part of that.
But indeed mael daggers are a big part of the current FotM.
And yes some magica builds do forego on at least one bar the DW swords for the set bonus plus spell damage trait increase. But usually, depending on build, the main combat swap is to destro for the weave gains and passives which healp a lot with sustain. DW swords wont help your magica much at all... while destro staves add a lot of sustain plus the hvy attack feed.In some cases the higher DPS yields come from DW on one bar and staff on the other which is more interesting than staff on both to be sure.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »What do you guys think about it ? So that destro and resto staff could work together with a shield, and have different skill sets as in "Destro staff and shield", "Resto staff and shield" ?fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »What do you guys think about it ? So that destro and resto staff could work together with a shield, and have different skill sets as in "Destro staff and shield", "Resto staff and shield" ?
There are builds like this, mostly healer build. Was very popular for vDSA at one point. Now it's not as needed.
Staff on one side ans S&B on back bar.
Beyond that, I fail to see a need for an entire skill line for it. Do not see OP suggestion all that interesting.0 -
The thing is, with sword and shield, if I want to use a light or heavy attack, it will have to be melee. I need to be near the enemy. While with a staff and shield, I could still light attack at distance and switch to shield blocking (which is better than blocking when you use something else). And then, since all weapon combinations have their own skill set, this one could have its own skill sets too(Resto Staff+Shield, Destro Staff+Shield)."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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No. Staff is two handed. You need two hands to hold it. You only have two hands. So no ...fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »What do you guys think about it ?
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭would hugely imbalance the whole game though
Not sure I agree TBH.
In PvE 2H weapons are at a substantial DPS disadvantage to DW. Even at low levels the difference is pretty noticeable. 2H isn't so great with AoE, though it can compete pre-Maelstorm wepaons with ani-canceled reverse-slash spam (though the sustain on 2H is quite good. I enjoy running a 2-hander on my stamtank as a buff/trashclear bar) Mealstorm weapons in particular make the damage difference massive.
Bow parses out as absolute lowest-tier damage, if I recall right, and the only advantage is you can stack bow DPS on top of other DPS with volly/poison injection (Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't stamDPS). Even then, stamina DPS is generally outclassed by magicka.
Destro/Resto staves are used to an extent, but many magickabuilds STILL go DW for the set bonuses and doubled enchantments.
In PvP 2H weapons see a lot of use due to Rally, but the proc meta basically mandates DW or S+B on one of your bars for maximum damage output. Running a 2H Essentially locks you out of a ranged option in exchange for rally. Plus dizzying/wreaking blow are ridiculously hard to land against no-potatoes.
Basically. Bow and two-hand weapons are equal or worse than alternatives in most situations, with only a handful of edge cases (safe, dot for bow. Rally and an early execute for 2H PvP only). I can't comment on destro staff, and including restoration staves in this argument is kind of silly for what they are supposed to do.
Whatever change occurs it needs to be part of an overall balance fix - where issues like "but with VMSA daggers" and "FOTM proc meta" and so on all playing a role and getting their parts changed.
it wasnt too long ago that the go-to-must have was 2H swords/maces wehatever (for rally and wrecking blow and executioner and gap closers etc) and definitely light/med armor cuz hvy was waste of time against the higher pens.
u13 will introduce new balance changes.
Weapon capabilities will need to be a part of that.
But indeed mael daggers are a big part of the current FotM.
And yes some magica builds do forego on at least one bar the DW swords for the set bonus plus spell damage trait increase. But usually, depending on build, the main combat swap is to destro for the weave gains and passives which healp a lot with sustain. DW swords wont help your magica much at all... while destro staves add a lot of sustain plus the hvy attack feed.In some cases the higher DPS yields come from DW on one bar and staff on the other which is more interesting than staff on both to be sure.
In PvP, I've found it important to run a staff/stamina weapon combo for the HA heavy attack regen. Though it's more dangerous to be stuck in melee trying to heavy attack to gain stamina, it gives me enough to block a few more attacks or enough for one dodge roll.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭hey, get back in line, were still waiting for the dual wield staves weve been asking since release (short staff) so i can finally drop my dual wield weapons on my magicka templar.1
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭would hugely imbalance the whole game though
Not sure I agree TBH.
In PvE 2H weapons are at a substantial DPS disadvantage to DW. Even at low levels the difference is pretty noticeable. 2H isn't so great with AoE, though it can compete pre-Maelstorm wepaons with ani-canceled reverse-slash spam (though the sustain on 2H is quite good. I enjoy running a 2-hander on my stamtank as a buff/trashclear bar) Mealstorm weapons in particular make the damage difference massive.
Bow parses out as absolute lowest-tier damage, if I recall right, and the only advantage is you can stack bow DPS on top of other DPS with volly/poison injection (Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't stamDPS). Even then, stamina DPS is generally outclassed by magicka.
Destro/Resto staves are used to an extent, but many magickabuilds STILL go DW for the set bonuses and doubled enchantments.
In PvP 2H weapons see a lot of use due to Rally, but the proc meta basically mandates DW or S+B on one of your bars for maximum damage output. Running a 2H Essentially locks you out of a ranged option in exchange for rally. Plus dizzying/wreaking blow are ridiculously hard to land against no-potatoes.
Basically. Bow and two-hand weapons are equal or worse than alternatives in most situations, with only a handful of edge cases (safe, dot for bow. Rally and an early execute for 2H PvP only). I can't comment on destro staff, and including restoration staves in this argument is kind of silly for what they are supposed to do.
Whatever change occurs it needs to be part of an overall balance fix - where issues like "but with VMSA daggers" and "FOTM proc meta" and so on all playing a role and getting their parts changed.
it wasnt too long ago that the go-to-must have was 2H swords/maces wehatever (for rally and wrecking blow and executioner and gap closers etc) and definitely light/med armor cuz hvy was waste of time against the higher pens.
u13 will introduce new balance changes.
Weapon capabilities will need to be a part of that.
But indeed mael daggers are a big part of the current FotM.
And yes some magica builds do forego on at least one bar the DW swords for the set bonus plus spell damage trait increase. But usually, depending on build, the main combat swap is to destro for the weave gains and passives which healp a lot with sustain. DW swords wont help your magica much at all... while destro staves add a lot of sustain plus the hvy attack feed.In some cases the higher DPS yields come from DW on one bar and staff on the other which is more interesting than staff on both to be sure.
In PvP, I've found it important to run a staff/stamina weapon combo for the HA heavy attack regen. Though it's more dangerous to be stuck in melee trying to heavy attack to gain stamina, it gives me enough to block a few more attacks or enough for one dodge roll.
fair enough.
For me, mist form is my lowstam option for magicas but... i get your point.
Also, FWIW in one of the many what sorcs needs threads one of my suggests was to take dark exchange and let its normal morph add "non-staff weapon attacks scale off spell damage and return magica (hvy) instead of stamina for 10-20s" instead of reduced cost of sta to further support the sword-mage concept (not stam sorc but the magsorc sword).
Thought it might make the sword-sustain issue a bit better while giving dark exc something extra and maybe unique.Edited by STEVIL on November 7, 2016 7:20PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Sinolai✭✭✭✭✭Yup. This game definietly needs 1h casting weapon and magic off-hand item (ward, talsiman, ect) would be nice too.
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Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Introducing New skill lines!
Spell and Shield
Bound Weapons
Boom magic buffs!Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The dps from a line that is being suggested would be muted, less than using the Dstaff as it is. It would be required to provide less benefit to damage dealt just as the current S&B is now.
It would be a defensive weapon rather than an offensive. And since it would regen magika with heavy attacks it would also make less sense because one stamina is depleted the shield would be worthless until stam is regenerated again.0 -
WalksonGraves wrote: »I wish, resto staff/shield I'd be immortal.
You'd still be knockable down and torn to pieces."Is it true her wounds healed on their own ? Yes" No s***, at 75% health regen penalty!
I was a vampire like you, but then I took an idea to the head...0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YESSSSSSRest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ValkynSketha wrote: »You mean spear and shield.
I was thinking wand and shield, but I like your idea better.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
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No. Staff is two handed. You need two hands to hold it. You only have two hands. So no ...fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »What do you guys think about it ?
I have never seen my char so much as touch a stave with his left hand. He does use his left hand for casting though.PC | EU1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BRING IN THE BATTLEMAGES, BRING IN THE TAUNTING DEBUFFING BATTLEMAGES, HELO, YES, PLEASE, GIVE ME, I WANT IT IN MY BODEY.1 -
Annalyse✭✭✭✭✭
No. Staff is two handed. You need two hands to hold it. You only have two hands. So no ...fxeconomisteb17_ESO wrote: »What do you guys think about it ?
Gandalf proves you wrong.
I want a Staff and Sword skill line, personally.
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