What Happen to the other half of the justice system?

Rune_Relic · November 2016

I would like to see the stocks used and more choices when caught.

1. Pay fine and surrender goods.
2. Make a run for it and keep goods.
3. Accept public humiliation and keep goods.

Guaranteed death if you run and fail also seems to be a little extreme in some cases and doesn't really fit the crime.
Jail time ?

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

The PVE side of things might be probably because they didn''t have the time to impliment it.

The PVP side was because of PVPers.

In all seriousness whenever I've seen a system like this in an MMO that turns it into this it's usually just laughed off or made griefable, better that it remains a scrapped idea.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

I know what you are saying about player generated expectations. But...
I am pretty sure it was described in ESO live.
I guess I will have to trawl through the vids to make a point.

I'll be back next week sometime .

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

I know what you are saying about player generated expectations. But...
I am pretty sure it was described in ESO live.
I guess I will have to trawl through the vids to make a point.

I'll be back next week sometime .

No they only ever said they were working on it...
Exactly the same as spell crafting...

Ppl jump and assumed working on it meant something more
No one knew how it would work cause ZOS didn't either they just had ideas and I believe it was Matt who suggested it might be like someone steals and then ppl could like hunt them or something but his comments were not about actual stuff, it was him sharing what they wanted it to be, not what it would be cause it never was more than "being worked on" which with ZOS can mean a lot or very little.

They've been working on a lot of DLC that ppl keep saying is coming out but they've been working on those since 2013 qualecon.

LaiTash · November 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

I know what you are saying about player generated expectations. But...
I am pretty sure it was described in ESO live.
I guess I will have to trawl through the vids to make a point.

I'll be back next week sometime .

No they only ever said they were working on it...
Exactly the same as spell crafting...

Ppl jump and assumed working on it meant something more
No one knew how it would work cause ZOS didn't either they just had ideas and I believe it was Matt who suggested it might be like someone steals and then ppl could like hunt them or something but his comments were not about actual stuff, it was him sharing what they wanted it to be, not what it would be cause it never was more than "being worked on" which with ZOS can mean a lot or very little.

They've been working on a lot of DLC that ppl keep saying is coming out but they've been working on those since 2013 qualecon.

That's the point though.
Want to do something really counts for jack.
It cant be implemented if its not feasible.
So why raise expectations in the 1st place ?

Theres is player led questions ...and we will think about it.
Then there is ...this is what we intend to do.
All I am saying is ...don't put out unrealistic expectation in the 1st place and no one has an issue.

Perhaps that is why they have been exceptionally reserved with player housing.
Maybe they learnt their lesson.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

LaiTash · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Says someone who thinks people who like to PvP must shut up and suffer because he don't want to give up his very special snowflake build. Know what? You're right. I don't care what you think and i refuse to consider a opt out because it's a stupid way to do things in a mmo.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Says someone who thinks people who like to PvP must shut up and suffer because he don't want to give up his very special snowflake build. Know what? You're right. I don't care what you think and i refuse to consider a opt out because it's a stupid way to do things in a mmo.

Hence why it will never occur. Thankfully, the designers -do- have to consider both audiences, and not just yours.

LaiTash · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Says someone who thinks people who like to PvP must shut up and suffer because he don't want to give up his very special snowflake build. Know what? You're right. I don't care what you think and i refuse to consider a opt out because it's a stupid way to do things in a mmo.

Hence why it will never occur. Thankfully, the designers -do- have to consider both audiences, and not just yours.

There would be a full justice system if they did.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Says someone who thinks people who like to PvP must shut up and suffer because he don't want to give up his very special snowflake build. Know what? You're right. I don't care what you think and i refuse to consider a opt out because it's a stupid way to do things in a mmo.

Hence why it will never occur. Thankfully, the designers -do- have to consider both audiences, and not just yours.

There would be a full justice system if they did.

No, no there would not.

Other peoples enjoyment is not a price their willing to pay. Thankfully. And forever may it stay that way.

STEVIL · November 2016

Depending on your definition of advertising i recall an eso site web page plus eso podcast both about their vision of justice. DId they run videos like they sometimes do? NAh.

As for why talk it up if it might not be, thats common. You dont wait until the thing is developed to talk about it. Sometimes the feedback is helpful early on in design.

And not every plan or planned feature comes into fruition.

bellanca6561n · November 2016

I too created a thread on this and learned some important things by reading the comments that followed.

Every important concept you will learn comes from discussions with people who do not agree with you. This is why the mass flight into a world of echo chambers is so disturbing.

But I digress.

Many of us who were online game developers in the '80s and early '90s had the perfect laboratory for our experiments.

We'd try something - usually something that seemed wonderful in design meetings - see how well it flew, wince in horror at the consequences we failed to foresee, yank it FAST, and move on.

The audience for online games was small. The gaming press didn't want to cover online games; they HATED them. And few gamers had even heard of them. Splendid environment to learn this new medium.

That's not possible now....not in the same way.

It was probably a bad idea to even attempt a justice system in a contemporary online game. Yes, it's not even half done. What does this mean? Annoyance, not grief. A gaming world you can never fully bond with, given all the skulkers, the ham handed thieves getting guard whacked, the frequent sound of locks being picked, the intentionally unnerving sound of someone fighting for their last breath through their own blood and body fluids.

But no player griefing. That loses you customers immediately. The other merely loses you customers over time.

JKorr · November 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

I know what you are saying about player generated expectations. But...
I am pretty sure it was described in ESO live.
I guess I will have to trawl through the vids to make a point.

I'll be back next week sometime .

No they only ever said they were working on it...
Exactly the same as spell crafting...

Ppl jump and assumed working on it meant something more
No one knew how it would work cause ZOS didn't either they just had ideas and I believe it was Matt who suggested it might be like someone steals and then ppl could like hunt them or something but his comments were not about actual stuff, it was him sharing what they wanted it to be, not what it would be cause it never was more than "being worked on" which with ZOS can mean a lot or very little.

They've been working on a lot of DLC that ppl keep saying is coming out but they've been working on those since 2013 qualecon.

That's the point though.
Want to do something really counts for jack.
It cant be implemented if its not feasible.
So why raise expectations in the 1st place ?

Theres is player led questions ...and we will think about it.
Then there is ...this is what we intend to do.
All I am saying is ...don't put out unrealistic expectation in the 1st place and no one has an issue.

Perhaps that is why they have been exceptionally reserved with player housing.
Maybe they learnt their lesson.

And this is why they don't say much if anything. No matter what they say, it will get quoted, misquoted, added to, read into, read between the lines, and speculated upon. It isn't restricted to just this game. Even the single player ES games had people doing the same thing. One game the devs said that you, the player, could gather materials for the npc smith who would make you armor and weapons. Immediately the threads about making your own gear started, no matter how many times it was pointed out that the devs *never* said that. When the game came out and you could gather mats and have the npc smiths make your gear, people were ranting about the lies about making your own gear, which was never promised.....

All they need to do is have someone official say "We are working on housing." and people will start speculating, and then blame the devs when the *not* official speculation is completely wrong about something.

Tandor · November 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

ZOS never made a big thing of it, and as the final announcement reminded us all they only ever mentioned it with a massive caveat.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

JKorr wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

I know what you are saying about player generated expectations. But...
I am pretty sure it was described in ESO live.
I guess I will have to trawl through the vids to make a point.

I'll be back next week sometime .

No they only ever said they were working on it...
Exactly the same as spell crafting...

Ppl jump and assumed working on it meant something more
No one knew how it would work cause ZOS didn't either they just had ideas and I believe it was Matt who suggested it might be like someone steals and then ppl could like hunt them or something but his comments were not about actual stuff, it was him sharing what they wanted it to be, not what it would be cause it never was more than "being worked on" which with ZOS can mean a lot or very little.

They've been working on a lot of DLC that ppl keep saying is coming out but they've been working on those since 2013 qualecon.

That's the point though.
Want to do something really counts for jack.
It cant be implemented if its not feasible.
So why raise expectations in the 1st place ?

Theres is player led questions ...and we will think about it.
Then there is ...this is what we intend to do.
All I am saying is ...don't put out unrealistic expectation in the 1st place and no one has an issue.

Perhaps that is why they have been exceptionally reserved with player housing.
Maybe they learnt their lesson.

And this is why they don't say much if anything. No matter what they say, it will get quoted, misquoted, added to, read into, read between the lines, and speculated upon. It isn't restricted to just this game. Even the single player ES games had people doing the same thing. One game the devs said that you, the player, could gather materials for the npc smith who would make you armor and weapons. Immediately the threads about making your own gear started, no matter how many times it was pointed out that the devs *never* said that. When the game came out and you could gather mats and have the npc smiths make your gear, people were ranting about the lies about making your own gear, which was never promised.....

All they need to do is have someone official say "We are working on housing." and people will start speculating, and then blame the devs when the *not* official speculation is completely wrong about something.

Again this is true and I am not arguing the point.
I am just stating the difference between...
Player led expectation
ZOS led expectation

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

You're doing exactly what I'm talking about above. This is not what it would be and you're overreacting to a comment that's pulling one idea of what I think it could've been.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

Every is acting like they actually knew what this system was and are expressing frustrations that are unfounded. You shouldn't be upset about something we knew no details about. I would agree if it were in PTS and then cancelled if ppl really liked it but considering ppl would try and base polls and threads on how many ppl actually wanted this and then suggested it was some large group was also frusrtaing.

No I'm not for PvP but I'm also not for stealing or being an enforcer but let's actually think about how this would feel today.

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

I mean seriously even prior to One Tamriel....why would you go around hunting and killing your own alliance members?

I've yet to read any logical idea on this and so it made sense to drop it.

Fair but that does beg the question...
Why suggest and advertise something in the 1st place if you don't even know if its going to be a realistic implementation ?
Why make a big thing about this and that and then drop it... instead of just not making such a claim in the first place ?

I think its just as much about ZOS raising groundless expectations as anything else.

@Rune_Relic

Did they advertise actually? No

Players made this some big thing....they never even laid out what it could be. They only said they were entertaining it and working on it to see if it could be implemented.

Ppl data mine and throw speculation threads out as well as media articles and something that's only being entertained in development becomes some real thing.

That's prob why they don't tell us anything until a month before release. Notice even the year ahead articles created all these speculations ....look at the housing threads today.

Facts are:
-housing will cost gold
-housing will be in towns
-everyone gets one
-you will be able to craft furniture

Now look at what the threads suggest and I'm even guilty of overstating housing stuff that's not actually confirmed or even suggested.

I know what you are saying about player generated expectations. But...
I am pretty sure it was described in ESO live.
I guess I will have to trawl through the vids to make a point.

I'll be back next week sometime .

No they only ever said they were working on it...
Exactly the same as spell crafting...

Ppl jump and assumed working on it meant something more
No one knew how it would work cause ZOS didn't either they just had ideas and I believe it was Matt who suggested it might be like someone steals and then ppl could like hunt them or something but his comments were not about actual stuff, it was him sharing what they wanted it to be, not what it would be cause it never was more than "being worked on" which with ZOS can mean a lot or very little.

They've been working on a lot of DLC that ppl keep saying is coming out but they've been working on those since 2013 qualecon.

That's the point though.
Want to do something really counts for jack.
It cant be implemented if its not feasible.
So why raise expectations in the 1st place ?

Theres is player led questions ...and we will think about it.
Then there is ...this is what we intend to do.
All I am saying is ...don't put out unrealistic expectation in the 1st place and no one has an issue.

Perhaps that is why they have been exceptionally reserved with player housing.
Maybe they learnt their lesson.

@Rune_Relic

The whole topic came about from countless threads, comments on ESO Live and such where ppl became arrogant saying ZOS was ignoring them so they addressed it. They literally said initially it's something they'd love to add but they would have to need around in development to see IF it was feasible. They never said it was feasible but ppl took headlines on articles and threads who suggested it was being worked on and coming. This was exactly like Imperial City stuff, spell crafting, character edits, etc. which all came about waaay different than any article or post described.

It's not that they've learned their lessons, it's that people aren't there anymore. You have the people who were working on these things leave the company.....largely because a lot of the content offered is half-ass and they realize if your name is attached to it, that hurts your career.

Imperial City, Justice system, and even many QoL additions all require add-one to even be functional.

Dubhliam · November 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Just because a small number of people advocate for a free-for-all PvP Justice system, you would shun any mention of it, regardless if the vast majority want to see it implemented with an opt-in?

You people hide your disapproval behind such players that advocate a system without an opt-out, but the fact is...
You will throw rocks at it even if it has an unconditional opt-out.

There are numerous forum users in this thread that prove this above statement.

Enodoc · November 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

That only applies to the PvP stuff though. A dungeon where you recover stolen items from bandits couldn't break the game if developed properly (like all other item retrieval quests), and there isn't really any way to grief item retrieval.

Edit:
The details that we knew (from the 2014 Guild Summit):

Tamriel Journal wrote:

Apart from fighting player Outlaws and confiscating stolen goods, Enforcers also have access to a fun PvE activity called Bandits Dens. An enforcer will be able to find clues in the world which will lead to different Bandit Dens. They are bandit hideouts scattered across Tamriel.

Bandit Dens are naturally habited by Bandits. Killing a bandit boss will yield extra treasure. Bandit Dens also include chests which may or may not be trapped. Some of these chests will have contraband items in them, which can and should be returned to an Enforcer Chapterhouse for rewards.

Bandit Dens have an element of mystery to them: in-game maps will not reveal the whole den. Some areas can be hidden. It is up to the player to explore the den and find all treasures and rewards inside.

Dominoid (on Reddit) wrote:

there is also a PVE aspect to being an Enforcer as well! Placed into the game will be many “vignettes” of thieving and murdering by NPCs. For example, you may be patrolling the market when and NPC bandit steals something of a vendor’s cart. You witnessing this act, can exact vengeance by killing the NPC(s). Occasionally found on the bandit’s body will be a map to the location of their hideout. These will be well hidden in the world and without the map you won’t be able to enter the hideout (or perhaps even see the entrance). But with the map in your possession, you can now enter and clear this cave/fort/etc of the bandits that reside inside. In addition to the treasures, gear and most likely unique items found inside, these bandit dens are not what they seem. Located within each bandit den are several hidden rooms/sections which do not appear on the map until found! These are where the real treasure is to be found.

Nothing here relies on the PvP justice, but still would drastically add to the "law abiding" side of the system. Conceptually, I do not see why this still cannot be added in the future.

Tandor · November 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Just because a small number of people advocate for a free-for-all PvP Justice system, you would shun any mention of it, regardless if the vast majority want to see it implemented with an opt-in?

You people hide your disapproval behind such players that advocate a system without an opt-out, but the fact is...
You will throw rocks at it even if it has an unconditional opt-out.

There are numerous forum users in this thread that prove this above statement.

Just as there are numerous forum users that can't accept that this issue is dead and buried. While they are still lobbying for something they know they can't have there will be others opposing them because they simply don't want it.

The biggest problem with it is certainly the lack in any initial proposal that is ever made of an effective opt-out mechanism, but even allowing for that why should those with no interest in PvP want the developers to overturn a principled decision not to add PvP to PvE content and devote scarce resources to things they've already rejected and which those players don't want, when there are far more pressing issues that everyone agrees need attention - including performance issues in Cyrodiil that even diehard PvEers accept should be a priority?

You've already got dueling, you're getting battlegrounds/arenas, why continue flogging this particular dead horse? As long as you do, however, those opposed to it will join the lobbying in order to demonstrate to ZOS the wisdom of their original decision.

Osteos · November 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

That only applies to the PvP stuff though. A dungeon where you recover stolen items from bandits couldn't break the game if developed properly (like all other item retrieval quests), and there isn't really any way to grief item retrieval.

Edit:
The details that we knew (from the 2014 Guild Summit):

Tamriel Journal wrote:

Apart from fighting player Outlaws and confiscating stolen goods, Enforcers also have access to a fun PvE activity called Bandits Dens. An enforcer will be able to find clues in the world which will lead to different Bandit Dens. They are bandit hideouts scattered across Tamriel.

Bandit Dens are naturally habited by Bandits. Killing a bandit boss will yield extra treasure. Bandit Dens also include chests which may or may not be trapped. Some of these chests will have contraband items in them, which can and should be returned to an Enforcer Chapterhouse for rewards.

Bandit Dens have an element of mystery to them: in-game maps will not reveal the whole den. Some areas can be hidden. It is up to the player to explore the den and find all treasures and rewards inside.

Dominoid (on Reddit) wrote:

there is also a PVE aspect to being an Enforcer as well! Placed into the game will be many “vignettes” of thieving and murdering by NPCs. For example, you may be patrolling the market when and NPC bandit steals something of a vendor’s cart. You witnessing this act, can exact vengeance by killing the NPC(s). Occasionally found on the bandit’s body will be a map to the location of their hideout. These will be well hidden in the world and without the map you won’t be able to enter the hideout (or perhaps even see the entrance). But with the map in your possession, you can now enter and clear this cave/fort/etc of the bandits that reside inside. In addition to the treasures, gear and most likely unique items found inside, these bandit dens are not what they seem. Located within each bandit den are several hidden rooms/sections which do not appear on the map until found! These are where the real treasure is to be found.

Nothing here relies on the PvP justice, but still would drastically add to the "law abiding" side of the system. Conceptually, I do not see why this still cannot be added in the future.

Agreed! This would make it a Justice system and not a Theft system that we have now! I would like to see this implemented.

Osteos · November 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Just because a small number of people advocate for a free-for-all PvP Justice system, you would shun any mention of it, regardless if the vast majority want to see it implemented with an opt-in?

You people hide your disapproval behind such players that advocate a system without an opt-out, but the fact is...
You will throw rocks at it even if it has an unconditional opt-out.

There are numerous forum users in this thread that prove this above statement.

Just as there are numerous forum users that can't accept that this issue is dead and buried. While they are still lobbying for something they know they can't have there will be others opposing them because they simply don't want it.

The biggest problem with it is certainly the lack in any initial proposal that is ever made of an effective opt-out mechanism, but even allowing for that why should those with no interest in PvP want the developers to overturn a principled decision not to add PvP to PvE content and devote scarce resources to things they've already rejected and which those players don't want, when there are far more pressing issues that everyone agrees need attention - including performance issues in Cyrodiil that even diehard PvEers accept should be a priority?

You've already got dueling, you're getting battlegrounds/arenas, why continue flogging this particular dead horse? As long as you do, however, those opposed to it will join the lobbying in order to demonstrate to ZOS the wisdom of their original decision.

The people opposed will use any excuse to stop the pvp justice. Lets not pretend.

Tandor · November 2016

Osteos wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In One Tamriel, somehow the game would flag a player and others could go chase them and hunt them down....and ppl see this as some type of fun. It would be a never ending kill and be killed which then breaks the game because certain quest and achievements require stealing or criminal acts. Basically you all are asking for something that blocks game peogression for previously released content.

Those quests and achievements are so easy that i fail to see a problem here. I only get bounty when i'm getting overly confident because, well, WHO CARES? The only thing that makes me care about bounties is getting into small guarded houses, like some of the guildhalls. If you're careful you're not getting a bounty higher then 1k. TG has pardons and swiftly forgotten skill that make things even easier. And heat reduces really fast as well.

The people who would get griefed would care.

This, is an example of the people who simply refuse to consider a opt out. Dont wanna suffer for their fun? Suck it up. And that's why I hope this system is never implimented.

Just because a small number of people advocate for a free-for-all PvP Justice system, you would shun any mention of it, regardless if the vast majority want to see it implemented with an opt-in?

You people hide your disapproval behind such players that advocate a system without an opt-out, but the fact is...
You will throw rocks at it even if it has an unconditional opt-out.

There are numerous forum users in this thread that prove this above statement.

Just as there are numerous forum users that can't accept that this issue is dead and buried. While they are still lobbying for something they know they can't have there will be others opposing them because they simply don't want it.

The biggest problem with it is certainly the lack in any initial proposal that is ever made of an effective opt-out mechanism, but even allowing for that why should those with no interest in PvP want the developers to overturn a principled decision not to add PvP to PvE content and devote scarce resources to things they've already rejected and which those players don't want, when there are far more pressing issues that everyone agrees need attention - including performance issues in Cyrodiil that even diehard PvEers accept should be a priority?

You've already got dueling, you're getting battlegrounds/arenas, why continue flogging this particular dead horse? As long as you do, however, those opposed to it will join the lobbying in order to demonstrate to ZOS the wisdom of their original decision.

The people opposed will use any excuse to stop the pvp justice. Lets not pretend.

Let's not pretend they are excuses, they are reasons - and they're perfectly valid. Anyone would think PvEers were unreasonably opposing the PvPers having what they wanted added to PvP content in PvP areas. They aren't. They're reasonably opposing what the PvPers want added to PvE content in PvE areas. That's a massive difference.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

That only applies to the PvP stuff though. A dungeon where you recover stolen items from bandits couldn't break the game if developed properly (like all other item retrieval quests), and there isn't really any way to grief item retrieval.

Edit:
The details that we knew (from the 2014 Guild Summit):

Tamriel Journal wrote:

Apart from fighting player Outlaws and confiscating stolen goods, Enforcers also have access to a fun PvE activity called Bandits Dens. An enforcer will be able to find clues in the world which will lead to different Bandit Dens. They are bandit hideouts scattered across Tamriel.

Bandit Dens are naturally habited by Bandits. Killing a bandit boss will yield extra treasure. Bandit Dens also include chests which may or may not be trapped. Some of these chests will have contraband items in them, which can and should be returned to an Enforcer Chapterhouse for rewards.

Bandit Dens have an element of mystery to them: in-game maps will not reveal the whole den. Some areas can be hidden. It is up to the player to explore the den and find all treasures and rewards inside.

Dominoid (on Reddit) wrote:

there is also a PVE aspect to being an Enforcer as well! Placed into the game will be many “vignettes” of thieving and murdering by NPCs. For example, you may be patrolling the market when and NPC bandit steals something of a vendor’s cart. You witnessing this act, can exact vengeance by killing the NPC(s). Occasionally found on the bandit’s body will be a map to the location of their hideout. These will be well hidden in the world and without the map you won’t be able to enter the hideout (or perhaps even see the entrance). But with the map in your possession, you can now enter and clear this cave/fort/etc of the bandits that reside inside. In addition to the treasures, gear and most likely unique items found inside, these bandit dens are not what they seem. Located within each bandit den are several hidden rooms/sections which do not appear on the map until found! These are where the real treasure is to be found.

Nothing here relies on the PvP justice, but still would drastically add to the "law abiding" side of the system. Conceptually, I do not see why this still cannot be added in the future.

@Nestor

Guild summit....
It's the exclusive ZOS club where they talk about "ideas" not actual items that "will" be released and on ESO Live in december-ish or January they said it was things they wanted to add ....

None of this even makes any sense.
-fighting outlaws.....what determines an outlaw? Crime, or killing, O k so faction players would hunt down and kill their own faction players? That literally creates a war within a war. So now you'd have to have basically world PvP and everyone isn't pro-PvP so you have to build in this with options. Then it becomes dumb because if you can commit crimes and not be a criminal this also means you'd be able to steal and kill from NPCs and shouldn't be hunted by NPC guards.

NPC hunting.....
Alsoakes no sense because if you see a crime shouldn't the actual guards kill them? How would an NPC commit a crime that we witness and somehow avoid all law officers and guards but player characters see it and are able to attack. And with this you'd have to attack with attack NPC off cause then you'd become a criminal if you accidentally attack another NPC or guard.
All this stuff sounds idiotic when you look at it with actual implementation.
You get to a point where it's all or nothing so knowing everyone doesn't want a full PvP/PvE world and you've already got options to disable things, it becomes gaming the system or just plain illogical.

All of this relies on the current Justice system because it's all linked together. It's either a player or an NPC and all surround the guards
In One Tamriel it's even more of a cluster because you'd end up with clumps of players hunting others so while you'd not always have this, you'd need cause and effect for killing and or catching others. You'd need cause and effect for being killed and overtime what's the point of playing the game if in every town it's dueling and PvP all the time?

This whole idea is a big mess under the concepts being suggested.
It never was presented or fashioned in a way where a few didn't conflict with existing features and rationale.

Lava_Croft · November 2016

ESO turning into a game for casuals is what happened.

Same reason why the Imperial City is such a bad joke.

Same reason why there are no faction restrictions in PvP.

Same reason why we have all the awesome high damage proc gear in PvP.

Same reason why you can forget about any kind of serious effort being put towards PvP in the foreseeable future.

shadoza · November 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The care bears were victorious, this is why we can't have nice things.

Or maybe it was the inability of the ESO players to police themselves and play well with others.