Can someone explain immersion?

ThePaleItalian · November 2016

Color me dumb, but I have no idea what the view is on immersion.

My thoughts are, lore breaking, or something following along those lines, I get maybe the lightning kitty and some poly morphs, but I honestly have no idea on how you the players view immersion.

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

If anyone can help me out on this I would appreciate it.

Nestor · November 2016

Immersion is in the eye of the Beholder. It is also a tired argument used in internet debates when someone does not have a point to make but wants to make one anyway.

For the rest of us, Immersion is really a Suspension of Disbelief. Can we believe we are in the game world that is right in front of us on the monitor? If we can, then we are immersed. Anything that comes along and makes us wonder why it is there and how it does not fit in the game world can break this immersion. The threshold for that varies among people. What people need to be immersed also varies, for some it is photo realism, for others, it is the game elements look like they belong together. There are probably as many things or combo's of things are there are gamers. Heck, some people can get immersed playing Risk or Monopoly.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · November 2016

There really isnt an open and shut, black white answer since it is different for everyone.

But i think people use it to describe something that pulls them out of pretending they are actually in the game, and makes them rememeber they are just playing a game.

For some people it might be seeing someone wearing armor colored in a way no one would. For others it might be 900 skeletons jumping up and down on them at the banker.

Just something that reminds them, they are just playing a game.

STEVIL · November 2016

Immersion is like ***, its in the eye of the beholder and sometimes that stings.

For some folks their enjoyment in the game is it looking like they expect it to look.

having other players not also looking the way they want can break immersions for them. having other character doing things that are not what the players want is sometimes breaking their immersion.

In some ways they would be better served if all the players outside of their group were invisible and other-instanced so they were able to just have them and theirs.

But thats not how an MMo works.

be advised tho - a number of clever types have started using "immersion" as a substitute claim for "i want a change" because their real reasons they think wont get as much purchase.

EXAMPLE:
its hard to sell "i want to pvp attack PVE players cuz you know PVP players kick my char all over the place" but its not (some think) as hard to sell "Having to see other players killing NPCs and not interact and stop them is harming my immersion. i feel like an accomplice, please let me attack them in the name of JUSTICE. and yeah... something immersion sorta"

So dont be fooled.

others accept that the other players in the world are not under their control and so dont sweat it.

SolarCat02 · November 2016

To use a silly example, I almost bought the Plague Doctor costume, until I saw someone sneaking while wearing it. Around this person sneaking, I couldn't concentrate on the game, my brain kept thinking about how that stupid necklace around the neck of the costume should be hanging towards the ground when the sneaking character was leaning over like that. I couldn't enjoy the game as an RPG until he stood back up again. I was fixated on the flaw in the costume.

It broke my immersion.

So I learned that I can look past people running on mountback riding giant wolves, flowers I can pick giving off smoke so I can see them but ones I can't pick looking normal, enemies telegraphing their attack attempts with magic lines and red circles, being surrounded by shadows in broad daylight simply by crouching, raising others from the dead with someone else's soul, floors sometimes disappearing to show nothing but sky and checkerboards underneath, etc, etc...

But don't you DARE defy the laws of physics or I am DONE.

SirAndy · November 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

Well, you're supposed to be the chosen one, the *one* dude (or dudette) without a soul and only YOU can save Tamriel from total destruction. That's the whole premise of the main story line for this game, everything is based around the assumption that you're the only one.
You are special, very special.

And then you get off the ship at your alliance starter island and there are hundreds of other ones running around that are just as special as you are.
And in case of the skeleton poly-morph, they even look exactly like you.

If you're trying to really immerse yourself into the world of ESO that alone would certainly break it ...

Iselin · November 2016

Immersion is simply light RP even if it's silent. It's getting into the game in the same way you get into a book or good movie and feeling as if you're actually there.

Anything that makes the game feel more real helps. Zone chat about the Cubs winning the World Series (Yay Cubs!!!) doesn't.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · November 2016

To me immersion is when I hit ESO time warp. One second it's 7pm and 5 minutes later it's 10pm somehow.

A better example might be when you're watching a great movie. You get really engrossed, or immersed, in it. An immersion breaker there may be some one looking at their cell phone in the theater, having the urge to use the restroom or a poorly edited scene where a medieval warrior is wearing a Timex.

leeux · November 2016

Immersion is what's broken when anything that breaks the fourth wall happens and makes you forget that you're supposed to believe what you're seeing and doing in the "virtual" world as if you're watching your char live their story there.

EDIT: Clarification

Sigtric · November 2016

At it's simplest, an immersion break is anything that pops a user or player out of their fantasy bubble. To be immersed is to be fully caught up in and fully invested in the story. If something intrudes and ruins the narrative it is immersion breaking. In the case of gaming, that could be a bug, bad UI, a sudden change to bad story telling, other players doing things the immersed person doesn't approve of, etc.

Me? my immersion is only broken when I realize my beer is gone.

ThePaleItalian · November 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

Well, you're supposed to be the chosen one, the *one* dude (or dudette) without a soul and only YOU can save Tamriel from total destruction. That's the whole premise of the main story line for this game, everything is based around the assumption that you're the only one.
You are special, very special.

And then you get off the ship at your alliance starter island and there are hundreds of other ones running around that are just as special as you are.
And in case of the skeleton poly-morph, they even look exactly like you.

If you're trying to really immerse yourself into the world of ESO that alone would certainly break it ...

It was a bit strange to see all of the fellow bone people running around. But to me in the world of ESO its supposed to be full of people, I guess my "immersion" is that. Or as others have said Eye of the Beholder.

I think I was more asking because I see people use it in arguments and I have no idea why.

ThePaleItalian · November 2016

leeux wrote: »

Immersion is what's broken when anything that breaks the fourth wall happens and makes you forget that you're supposed to believe what you're seeing and doing in the "virtual" world as if you're watching your char live their story there.

EDIT: Clarification

So what breaks that for you? I guess to me MMO is massively multiplayer... but yet I see a lot of people hating the fact that they have to be with players. I guess I am trying to wrap opinions around my head and it isn't working to well. lol

ThePaleItalian · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Immersion is like ***, its in the eye of the beholder and sometimes that stings.

For some folks their enjoyment in the game is it looking like they expect it to look.

having other players not also looking the way they want can break immersions for them. having other character doing things that are not what the players want is sometimes breaking their immersion.

In some ways they would be better served if all the players outside of their group were invisible and other-instanced so they were able to just have them and theirs.

But thats not how an MMo works.

be advised tho - a number of clever types have started using "immersion" as a substitute claim for "i want a change" because their real reasons they think wont get as much purchase.

EXAMPLE:
its hard to sell "i want to pvp attack PVE players cuz you know PVP players kick my char all over the place" but its not (some think) as hard to sell "Having to see other players killing NPCs and not interact and stop them is harming my immersion. i feel like an accomplice, please let me attack them in the name of JUSTICE. and yeah... something immersion sorta"

So dont be fooled.

others accept that the other players in the world are not under their control and so dont sweat it.

This is exactly what I saw today in about a half a dozen posts... That is why I was curious about it. No way to counter a good discussion so tell the community your immersion is taken away.

leeux · November 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

So what breaks that for you? I guess to me MMO is massively multiplayer... but yet I see a lot of people hating the fact that they have to be with players. I guess I am trying to wrap opinions around my head and it isn't working to well. lol

In ESO? Not many things, really... I'm much more sensitive to that on single player games, though. I'd say, as an example, Dragons flying backwards broke my immersion on Skyrim.. and I had to stop playing for that time until they fixed it

But in ESO, mostly bugs break my immersion (like hair clipping through a shield on the back, and being stuck on terrain, for example) And I'd say stupid costumes would break my immersion a bit

The fact that there are thousand people camping dolmens? Nah, that doesn't... though, I find it a but funny, in a way... specially before last patch when mobs spawned already death

EDIT: Also, I'd have to say... same as in movies, bad story design would be immersion breaking... like when you watch a movie and something really stupid happens, something that you'd find hard to accept and believe, which makes you want to leave the theater out of rage due the stupidity of the writers

I've seen that happen in a few games...

Artificial difficulty in immersion breaking too, specially when something that ought to happen according to game's rules, is disabled/forbidden, just because... just to make an encounter harder artificially. There's a bit of that on ESO too.

SirAndy · November 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

So what breaks that for you? I guess to me MMO is massively multiplayer... but yet I see a lot of people hating the fact that they have to be with players. I guess I am trying to wrap opinions around my head and it isn't working to well. lol

The conflict is that the whole main story line of ESO is centered around you as a single player.

If they had come up with a story line that was based on many players (you know, the MM in MMO) things would have been different.

Horker · November 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Color me dumb, but I have no idea what the view is on immersion.

My thoughts are, lore breaking, or something following along those lines, I get maybe the lightning kitty and some poly morphs, but I honestly have no idea on how you the players view immersion.

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

If anyone can help me out on this I would appreciate it.

U are lucky that i didnt pass you by with my hugh mungus giant fat orc in a weddingdress

ThePaleItalian · November 2016

alexandrutenhove wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Color me dumb, but I have no idea what the view is on immersion.

My thoughts are, lore breaking, or something following along those lines, I get maybe the lightning kitty and some poly morphs, but I honestly have no idea on how you the players view immersion.

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

If anyone can help me out on this I would appreciate it.

U are lucky that i didnt pass you by with my hugh mungus giant fat orc in a weddingdress

You are lucky, I would have Ring of Mara's that A$$ in a heartbeat.

ThePaleItalian · November 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

So what breaks that for you? I guess to me MMO is massively multiplayer... but yet I see a lot of people hating the fact that they have to be with players. I guess I am trying to wrap opinions around my head and it isn't working to well. lol

The conflict is that the whole main story line of ESO is centered around you as a single player.

If they had come up with a story line that was based on many players (you know, the MM in MMO) things would have been different.

Yea I agree with you on that. I wonder how they could have made an MMO with the premise "Hey you are kind of awesome, but not awesome without all these people with you"

Mojmir · November 2016

Immersion is an excuse,see also "lore breaking".

Horker · November 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Color me dumb, but I have no idea what the view is on immersion.

My thoughts are, lore breaking, or something following along those lines, I get maybe the lightning kitty and some poly morphs, but I honestly have no idea on how you the players view immersion.

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

If anyone can help me out on this I would appreciate it.

U are lucky that i didnt pass you by with my hugh mungus giant fat orc in a weddingdress

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

alexandrutenhove wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

Color me dumb, but I have no idea what the view is on immersion.

My thoughts are, lore breaking, or something following along those lines, I get maybe the lightning kitty and some poly morphs, but I honestly have no idea on how you the players view immersion.

I have seen comments about all the skeletons running around were breaking "immersion". I have seen comments about the massive amounts of players at dolmens or world bosses breaking "immersion".

If anyone can help me out on this I would appreciate it.

U are lucky that i didnt pass you by with my hugh mungus giant fat orc in a weddingdress

You are lucky, I would have Ring of Mara's that A$$ in a heartbeat.

marry me

Enodoc · November 2016

Immersion is how you see yourself in the world, and is a personal feature. Someone's immersion can be broken by having UI elements on-screen, or by having floating markers in the world.

Some people get "immersion breaking" confused with "lore breaking". While immersion is a personal quality, lore is about consistency and continuity within the world. One of the most common examples of this is the recurring discussion on having dragons in ESO, based on the existing world timeline of when dragons are and aren't supposed to be present in the world.

Lore is fact and immersion is opinion; something that is said to have broken the lore has certainly broken the lore, but some people won't care about that. For others, broken lore will break their immersion.

Nyghthowler · November 2016

'Breaking their Immersion' is a whiners' way of saying they are unhappy others are having fun.
It's a game. Get over it....

SquareSausage · November 2016

Immersion is the excuse crap players use for underperforming at the game.

LaiTash · November 2016

SquareSausage wrote: »

Immersion is the excuse crap players use for underperforming at the game.

Not everyone wants to powerplay. Actually there was a time when powerplaying viewed as a cancerous practice by the majority. Because, yeah, mah immersun was important. Too bad the cancer won and immersion is no longer something that's taken seriously neither by devs nor by players.

DHale · November 2016

Immersion is anything you want it to be it's a made up world.

ArchMikem · November 2016

Why has no one actually bothered to seriously define Immersion? Nothing but witty remarks and confusing examples and metaphors.

Immersion is the act of feeling like the game world is a believable representation of reality. It's when the game world plays by the rules we live by in the real world, so that we, the player, can "immerse" ourselves into the game world, so as to feel like we are actually living and taking part within it. When something in the game world just doesn't seem right, is kind of a little odd, or is just plain silly, then it is breaking the rules of Reality and thus, is breaking our Immersion.

Mojmir · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Why has no one actually bothered to seriously define Immersion? Nothing but witty remarks and confusing examples and metaphors.

Immersion is the act of feeling like the game world is a believable representation of reality. It's when the game world plays by the rules we live by in the real world, so that we, the player, can "immerse" ourselves into the game world, so as to feel like we are actually living and taking part within it. When something in the game world just doesn't seem right, is kind of a little odd, or is just plain silly, then it is breaking the rules of Reality and thus, is breaking our Immersion.

Basically go watch the matrix

Curragraigue · November 2016

This thread is breaking my forum immersion. It needs more wild accusations, everything is broken or PUGs suck. Reasonable questions have no place here

Enodoc · November 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

Why has no one actually bothered to seriously define Immersion? Nothing but witty remarks and confusing examples and metaphors.

Immersion is the act of feeling like the game world is a believable representation of reality. It's when the game world plays by the rules we live by in the real world, so that we, the player, can "immerse" ourselves into the game world, so as to feel like we are actually living and taking part within it. When something in the game world just doesn't seem right, is kind of a little odd, or is just plain silly, then it is breaking the rules of Reality and thus, is breaking our Immersion.

I would argue that this isn't immersion, this is realism. Realism may play a part in some people's criteria for immersion, but not everyone's.

Skcarkden · November 2016

Immersion is the difference between people acknowledging immortal justice guards are a game mechanic and a centralised trade house/auction house is "destroying my immersion because it's impossible for one NPC to hold all those items but guild NPC's are more magical and can hold anything"

Enslaved · November 2016

Immersion is when a Khajiit speaks "this one blah blah", and Saxhleel "erect spine of blah blah". And 95% of Khajiits I saw in game are like " U w00t m8". Saxhleels are even worse, they are like "l2p, that cancer give me aids" and similar. Not to mention Orsimers that do not bring any forge wifes with them, it is really immersion breaking to the point that I run as ww lord being a vampire.