Night spent bargain hunting, was it worth it?

Fallen_Ray · November 2016

So after getting home from work I spent all night trying to get decent motifs at a decent price. Since I wanted to craft in a style I never learned and people are such greedy, selfish slugs (no offense but charging a final fee per piece crafted even though I provide EVERY material, C'MON!). Then it hit me in the face like a slippery fish. I'm a max lvl crafter and know 8 traits and I could craft what I was after, so I decided to go and find the motifs myself. And the hunt began.

One style did catch my eye. Ebonhart style, I wanted to do Glass but the prices per motif chapter for Glass is [SNIP]and so is the process of questing Glass motif chapters. I only had the Ebonhart chest in my library so I went to find the other at what I saw were the lowest prices from every guild trader in Tamriel. So after a dreadful 5 hrs hunting this is what i got:

Ebonhart Pact Motif Chapters:

Shield: 4111
Legs: 4111
Belt: 4111
Gloves: 600
Helm: 3000
Shoulder: 3000
Boots: 5000
Total = 23933

I only aimed for the armor, I used other styles to craft my weapons. To me I do feel like I got everything at a decent price, but what does everyone else think? Was it worth it?

EDIT: I do understand crafting takes alot of time specially if the one ordering isn't decided. I do however make a writen list with gear style, trait and set and text em via PSN messages to make the process faster.

The reason I'm against charging is because crafters do not charge, most over-charge for crafting. And buying them motifs for lower and doing it yourself saves you a lot more than paying someone to craft it. Plus you know the style to craft again later on. That's the reason why I said "greedy,selfish, blah", and no offense to anyone out there, don't take it personal. It's just what I think, that's all.

Junipus · November 2016

Nice prices, but just remember that master crafters charge a fee after you give them all the materials because it's taking up their time and their investment in purchasing/farming all the motifs and researching the traits.

Enslaved · November 2016

It was worth it. Good job, OP.

Prof_Bawbag · November 2016

I only charge people if a) they offer to pay upfront or b) I'm using those crown stones, which I will charge due to the real life money involved. Other than the one set i made for myself, I don't/won't use the stones personally, i just got them from that Halloween motif.

psychotic13 · November 2016

But why should someone who has taken the time to learn the styles and research the traits not charge you for their services?

So what if you provide the materials, I do the same and still give my crafter like 5k per piece he makes me, it's just saved me all the hassle and time of learning and researching myself, besides most people charge 2k per piece I only give more so my crafter is more inclined to do it when I need something.

psxfloh · November 2016

hehe.. OP, you complain about crafters being "selfish slugs", but at the same time you provide one of the main reasons why crafting fees are justified.
Learning and buying all these traits and styles does not come "for free" (time&gold-wise), so why should a master crafter give all that to you "for free"?!?

Prof_Bawbag · November 2016

Forgot to add, they really need to rethink the entire glass motif thing. After binding your first page you're now in the world of duplicates and because the resin costs 10k, it is not worth binding pages together as you will struggle to recoup your money back and more than likely incur losses. Was fine when it first released, but now there's next to no demand for it, it makes zero sense to glue all those fragments together because of the high price for the resin. They should chop it down to 1k or even 2k.

I want the glass armour motif and i have over 100 page fragments but i refuse to throw 10k gold at them.

kylewwefan · November 2016

Good prices. Good deals. Glass is pricey because every motif will cost you the 10 fragments and 10k gold to make and pray you get what you need. I've slacked big time on my crafter and need to do the same. Though I need the pricey motifs now...nothing cheap left.

Fallen_Ray · November 2016

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I only charge people if a) they offer to pay upfront or b) I'm using those crown stones, which I will charge due to the real life money involved. Other than the one set i made for myself, I don't/won't use the stones personally, i just got them from that Halloween motif.

@Prof_Bawbag
In the case of crown stones is different. You are putting up items purchased from crown store like you said so that I do understand it. But If I provide everything getting charged a final price is kind a bit overhead in my opinion.

When I asked for a crafter on a guild some guy asked 5000 per piece * 10 items I needed crafted = 50000?!! I just found out that for a whole lot less than that I could get a nice looking style and keep crafting in that style in the future for other alt characters.

Junipus · November 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I only charge people if a) they offer to pay upfront or b) I'm using those crown stones, which I will charge due to the real life money involved. Other than the one set i made for myself, I don't/won't use the stones personally, i just got them from that Halloween motif.

@Prof_Bawbag
In the case of crown stones is different. You are putting up items purchased from crown store like you said so that I do understand it. But If I provide everything getting charged a final price is kind a bit overhead in my opinion.

When I asked for a crafter on a guild some guy asked 5000 per piece * 10 items I needed crafted = 50000?!! I just found out that for a whole lot less than that I could get a nice looking style and keep crafting in that style in the future for other alt characters.

I didn't want to break out the analogies, but I'm left with no choice.

If you supplied a plumber or cleaner with all the materials, would you expect them to fix/clean things for free?

Fallen_Ray · November 2016

psxfloh wrote: »

hehe.. OP, you complain about crafters being "selfish slugs", but at the same time you provide one of the main reasons why crafting fees are justified.
Learning and buying all these traits and styles does not come "for free" (time&gold-wise), so why should a master crafter give all that to you "for free"?!?

@psxfloh
You are right man. But being charged 5000 per piece * 10 items needed crafted every time I asked. Do the math. It was way better for me to buy them motifs and I have them for future crafting purposes.

Prof_Bawbag · November 2016

Junipus wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I only charge people if a) they offer to pay upfront or b) I'm using those crown stones, which I will charge due to the real life money involved. Other than the one set i made for myself, I don't/won't use the stones personally, i just got them from that Halloween motif.

@Prof_Bawbag
In the case of crown stones is different. You are putting up items purchased from crown store like you said so that I do understand it. But If I provide everything getting charged a final price is kind a bit overhead in my opinion.

When I asked for a crafter on a guild some guy asked 5000 per piece * 10 items I needed crafted = 50000?!! I just found out that for a whole lot less than that I could get a nice looking style and keep crafting in that style in the future for other alt characters.

I didn't want to break out the analogies, but I'm left with no choice.

If you supplied a plumber or cleaner with all the materials, would you expect them to fix/clean things for free?

But at the same time, that plumber has to provide for his family, pay rent on a real life house etc etc whereas in-game gold is a worthless commodity. Two different things entirely.

AlnilamE · November 2016

Those look like good prices to me.

As for glass, others have mentioned that the overhead of 10k for the resin means that people will not sell them for less than that plus the price of 10 fragments.

I don't craft for strangers, but as others have pointed out, crafting requires time out of the crafters day, as well as time and gold invested in learning all the motifs and traits. So it's more than reasonable that people will charge you for that. Consider that if you are having them craft 10 pieces for you, that's going to mean going to at least 2 crafting stations to get the sets you want.

You have the choice of spending the gold or spending the time. You chose to spend the time, and that's all good. :-)

Cherryblossom · November 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

So after getting home from work I spent all night trying to get decent motifs at a decent price. Since I wanted to craft in a style I never learned and people are such greedy, selfish slugs (no offense but charging a final fee per piece crafted even though I provide EVERY material, C'MON!). Then it hit me in the face like a slippery fish. I'm a max lvl crafter and know 8 traits and I could craft what I was after, so I decided to go and find the motifs myself. And the hunt began.

One style did catch my eye. Ebonhart style, I wanted to do Glass but the prices per motif chapter for Glass is retárded and so is the process of questing Glass motif chapters. I only had the Ebonhart chest in my library so I went to find the other at what I saw were the lowest prices from every guild trader in Tamriel. So after a dreadful 5 hrs hunting this is what i got:

Ebonhart Pact Motif Chapters:

Shield: 4111
Legs: 4111
Belt: 4111
Gloves: 600
Helm: 3000
Shoulder: 3000
Boots: 5000
Total = 23933

I only aimed for the armor, I used other styles to craft my weapons. To me I do feel like I got everything at a decent price, but what does everyone else think? Was it worth it?

So it cost you 24k to create a set, in the style you want, so you must understand why a crafter will charge you a fee for making an item where he has had to buy the Motif which you have stated have *** prices!

Fallen_Ray · November 2016

Junipus wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I only charge people if a) they offer to pay upfront or b) I'm using those crown stones, which I will charge due to the real life money involved. Other than the one set i made for myself, I don't/won't use the stones personally, i just got them from that Halloween motif.

@Prof_Bawbag
In the case of crown stones is different. You are putting up items purchased from crown store like you said so that I do understand it. But If I provide everything getting charged a final price is kind a bit overhead in my opinion.

When I asked for a crafter on a guild some guy asked 5000 per piece * 10 items I needed crafted = 50000?!! I just found out that for a whole lot less than that I could get a nice looking style and keep crafting in that style in the future for other alt characters.

I didn't want to break out the analogies, but I'm left with no choice.

If you supplied a plumber or cleaner with all the materials, would you expect them to fix/clean things for free?

This is a game... There are endless ways of making gold in this game compared to real life. Your avatar doesn't need to eat to live. It only eats to have more HP magicka and stamina. It doesn't get sick or have important necessities. Why the need to charge so much for something that takes less than 15 minutes is beyond me and incomprehensible.

Nestor · November 2016

I have a personal rule about Motif Chapters. Less than 3,000, I will buy it if I need it, more than 3,000 it better be rare or an uncommon chapter or one of the last ones I need to complete the Motif. More than 5K, it stays on the trader no matter what.

So, you pretty much followed my guidelines.

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Shield: 4111
Legs: 4111
Belt: 4111
Gloves: 600
Helm: 3000
Shoulder: 3000
Boots: 5000
Total = 23933

bellanca6561n · November 2016

We will likely never again see an online game where crafters are rock stars as they were in the first years of Ultima Online.

In that game you'd go out and mine ore (no resource nodes), refine it into ingots, and stand in line in Britain waiting to be seen by a player master blacksmith to have your gear assessed (you didn't know the properties of gear without the Arms Lore skill) and have new gear made. Or repaired. NPCs still do not repair gear in UO.

Each type of metal or leather had different, complex properties as opposed to ESO where materials have but one property: level.

The reason for this sort of status for crafters was not just due to the complexity of UO's crafting system. It took a full year to create a master or grand-master crafter. Plus you didn't have the maximum number of possible skill points until after 4 years of playing.

None of this sort of thing would be tolerated by online game players now.

We often see the opposite extreme in ESO: players in zone chat asking for the services of crafters with the offer of materials needed to do the work and, sometimes, a tip....a tip for their services.

This might seem unfair or disrespectful. And it is. But crafting in this game is so simplified, and the skills so easy to obtain, that only the nine trait gear goes for a premium due to the very high research times (27 days) to get those last traits.

Carbonised · November 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

(...)and people are such greedy, selfish slugs (no offense but charging a final fee per piece crafted even though I provide EVERY material, C'MON!)(...)

Yes, I mean, having spent about 1M gold for every new motif that hits the game (which is the usual starting price for new motifs, not the price you pay 9 months after release) times 20 motifs or so, having actually invested the time, coin and effort to have 9 traits researched on your items, having an abundance of trait stones, style stones and spare materials, since everyone is "just lacking a few ruby leathers" and have no trait stones on stock, having spent the 30+ minutes waiting for you to make up your mind regarding what you want crafted ("what's a good set for a stam NB in pvp?", "what style looks good with daedric weapons?"), having taken 30+ minutes out of their gaming time to travel to some remote crafting station while making your stuff, time that could otherwise have been used for farming or questing, that should defenitely not warrant you opening your purse to tip off your crafter for merely "pushing a few buttons" and making your stuff.

Whenever I come across someone like you, I tell them to find another crafter, or make the stuff themselves.
Luckily there are plenty of people who know exactly how expensive and time consuming it is to become a master crafter, and show their appreciation through a generous tip of gold or spare materials.

psxfloh · November 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

psxfloh wrote: »

hehe.. OP, you complain about crafters being "selfish slugs", but at the same time you provide one of the main reasons why crafting fees are justified.
Learning and buying all these traits and styles does not come "for free" (time&gold-wise), so why should a master crafter give all that to you "for free"?!?

@psxfloh
You are right man. But being charged 5000 per piece * 10 items needed crafted every time I asked. Do the math. It was way better for me to buy them motifs and I have them for future crafting purposes.

hmm yeah, that's pricey.. I wouldn't charge that much, except maybe for armor master - going through a pvp zone and all... On the other hand 10k are peanuts for eso-millionaires not worth raising their little finger, so they charge an amount they consider worth their time.

Nestor · November 2016

I ask for Tips when I craft, I spent the time and money to get the research done and acquire the motifs. However, I leave the amount of the tip up to the requester. I get a good tip, I will make things for your again, I get a bad tip, I will be busy the next time you need something. I usually get good tips.

Prof_Bawbag · November 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

(...)and people are such greedy, selfish slugs (no offense but charging a final fee per piece crafted even though I provide EVERY material, C'MON!)(...)

Yes, I mean, having spent about 1M gold for every new motif that hits the game (which is the usual starting price for new motifs, not the price you pay 9 months after release) times 20 motifs or so, having actually invested the time, coin and effort to have 9 traits researched on your items, having an abundance of trait stones, style stones and spare materials, since everyone is "just lacking a few ruby leathers" and have no trait stones on stock, having spent the 30+ minutes waiting for you to make up your mind regarding what you want crafted ("what's a good set for a stam NB in pvp?", "what style looks good with daedric weapons?"), having taken 30+ minutes out of their gaming time to travel to some remote crafting station while making your stuff, time that could otherwise have been used for farming or questing, that should defenitely not warrant you opening your purse to tip off your crafter for merely "pushing a few buttons" and making your stuff.

Whenever I come across someone like you, I tell them to find another crafter, or make the stuff themselves.
Luckily there are plenty of people who know exactly how expensive and time consuming it is to become a master crafter, and show their appreciation through a generous tip of gold or spare materials.

Waiting for those 27 day traits to ping in the background and becoming a master crafter isn't exactly time consuming or at least in the sense you're attempting to portray it as. Out questing and you'll get a steady stream of leather, metal nodes are everywhere and stick out like a sore thumb, same goes for ruby wood. The silk can be a pain, but a crafting map or two soon sorts that out. I had trait stones coming out my ears without much effort at all and gold is easy enough to come by.

Yeah, i'm really struggling to see where the time consuming aspect comes into play other than sifting through stores for motif pages and letting the game do the research for you.

I do agree 100% with your comment regarding the attitude of others taking an age to decide what they want. People should know what they're wanting if they're asking for gear. Not for us to go through fashion pages and know what every single piece of gear does for every class.

Nestor · November 2016

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Yeah, i'm really struggling to see where the time consuming aspect comes into play other than sifting through stores for motif pages and letting the game do the research for you.

@Prof_Bawbag

Lets see. I get a request to craft 8/9 items for someone. Both Crafted Sets. I have to get to the first crafting station, make the gear, double and triple checking the whole way as I am careful with someone else's mats. Then I have to go to the other crafting station and make the other items. Then I have to mail it. So, I am out 20 to 40 minutes depending on where the crafting stations are. Plus, I dropped what I was doing to make the gear, so add in 5 to 10 minutes dropping that activity and getting back to where I was, or at least parking my crafter where I want them, then logging back to the Alt that I was on.

And, this is all after I know what they want. It can take 20 to 40 minutes just figuring that out if they ask me for advice.

So, 30 Minutes on the low end to 60/90 minutes on the high end. In that time, I can Farm 5,000 to 40,000 Gold (or stuff that has that much value) depending on what I am farming.

And, since I spent 300,000 Gold and 9 months getting that 9th trait, you better believe there is a huge investment in time to make the choice sets. These 9 months did not include the time it took me to get to 8 Traits. I may not have been doing push ups and running laps those 9 months, but I was certainly not making 9 trait sets for anyone either, including myself.

Time is money, and crafting is not a slam bam thank you maam activity. Whipping up one item for research, sure nothing expected. Entire sets with all the stuff that surrounds it, is taking time away from other more profitable activities that I could be doing.

itehache · November 2016

It was definately worth it good job!

Quelhallow · November 2016

As a master crafter I always craft for free for guild mates. For random people in zone, as long as they are offering to tip, then I will sometimes offer my services. I've been tipped anywhere from 50 gold to 40k gold, so it all evens out in the end.

As to the OP's comment (complaint?) about 7 motif chapters costing 24k, I'd suggest joining a trading guild to earn more money to pay for these more easily. Lately, I've been trying to get Yokudan chapters to finish learning all known motifs, and I am sadly at 0 for 15 coffers at the moment. Therefore, I certainly don't mind paying 75k for a motif when I find them priced that low.

For those people not understanding the "time consuming aspect," it takes roughly a year to research all traits. More, if you don't play that often or are not really paying attention. I was the latter up-and-coming master crafter. And it took me a few months when the game first started to realize how to research traits and what this research rewarded you.

Also, master crafting is at its lowest value right now, since One Tamriel provided all sorts of in-demand farmable proc sets that people want more than, say, Noble's Conquest. Only the Twice-Born set seems to be still popular, as well as other niche sets like Eternal Hunt and the more generic Hundings Rage & Julianos.

Hopefully they will add future sets (possibly a ten-trait one!) to keep us crafters employed.

Fallen_Ray · November 2016

Nestor wrote: »

I have a personal rule about Motif Chapters. Less than 3,000, I will buy it if I need it, more than 3,000 it better be rare or an uncommon chapter or one of the last ones I need to complete the Motif. More than 5K, it stays on the trader no matter what.

So, you pretty much followed my guidelines.

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Shield: 4111
Legs: 4111
Belt: 4111
Gloves: 600
Helm: 3000
Shoulder: 3000
Boots: 5000
Total = 23933

@Nestor
I did?...... I mean.. yes I DID hehehehe, actually I followed my instinct. Took me too dang long!! But i gotta say I'm happy with the results.

Yeah I also think that spending more than 5k on chapters is just too much.

alexkdd99 · November 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I only charge people if a) they offer to pay upfront or b) I'm using those crown stones, which I will charge due to the real life money involved. Other than the one set i made for myself, I don't/won't use the stones personally, i just got them from that Halloween motif.

@Prof_Bawbag
In the case of crown stones is different. You are putting up items purchased from crown store like you said so that I do understand it. But If I provide everything getting charged a final price is kind a bit overhead in my opinion.

When I asked for a crafter on a guild some guy asked 5000 per piece * 10 items I needed crafted = 50000?!! I just found out that for a whole lot less than that I could get a nice looking style and keep crafting in that style in the future for other alt characters.

I didn't want to break out the analogies, but I'm left with no choice.

If you supplied a plumber or cleaner with all the materials, would you expect them to fix/clean things for free?

This is a game... There are endless ways of making gold in this game compared to real life. Your avatar doesn't need to eat to live. It only eats to have more HP magicka and stamina. It doesn't get sick or have important necessities. Why the need to charge so much for something that takes less than 15 minutes is beyond me and incomprehensible.

Because they have paid the outrageous prices for motifs? It took quite awhile before glass motif pages became reasonable to buy.
I think it is incomprehensible for people to expect crafters to craft for free. Do they not deserve compensation for learning that rare motif so you can have that new style with minimal investment.

Look at the newest motifs 100k for some pieces. At these prices it is insane for anyone to even think it is ok to ask for crafters to craft for free.

Stop being selfish, greedy slugs as op says. You provided ample evidence to why crafters charge gold and then complained about it.

In op post he picks one of the relatively cheap motifs. Say he wanted draugr, yokudan, or glass. You can't tell me that you will be able to find those motifs anywhere close to the price that crafter would charge you to make them.

Really everything op tries to call the crafters applies to himself.

Stopnaggin · November 2016

First it takes time to become a master crafter. Lok at this even with rank 4 in any profession

Trait 1. .25 days or 5 hours
Trait 2. .375 days or 9 hours
Trait 3 .75 days or 18 hours
Trait 4 1.5 days or 36 hours
Trait 5 3 days or 72 hours
Trait 6 . 6 days or 144 hours
Trait 7 12 days or 288 hours
Trait 8 . 24 days or 576 hours
Trait 9 30 days max or 720 hours
Multiply that by 7 pieces of heavy armor, 7 pieces of medium armor, 7 pieces of light armor, 1 shield, 7 smithing weapons, and 5 woodworking weapons. Of course you can research 3 items per profession at 1 time so this will reduce over all time. 1146 hours or 47.83 days to get all 9 traits on 1 item, 542 days at best. Might be off on my numbers and math as I'm going from memory but it's pretty close.

On top of the research times it takes extra time and/or money to be abe to craft in every motif. 43 or 44 different motifs. 1,029,119 gold, if you were lucky enough to buy motifs at the prices the OP listed. In reality motifs will not come that cheap.

Just some things to think about when you ask a master crafter to make you something. It's not just the time to go to a station and craft, much more involved than that.

Junipus · November 2016

Analogies have failed in the face of straight up ignorance of rational evidence.

I happily craft for free for guildies, but for those who expect me to do it for free I'd make an exception and ask them to provide the motif pages too.

Doomslinger781 · November 2016

Perhaps it's a simple misunderstanding.

Try looking at it like this: if I bring you all the ingredients to make me a sandwich, does that mean you should make it for me for free? =P

Also, one can easily make 10k gold in an hour selling all the drops from grinding Sentinal's zombie beach, so... do you believe you saved 50k gold bargain hunting for 5 hours? (Not to mention the experience gains you get grinding.)

Solus · November 2016

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

So after getting home from work I spent all night trying to get decent motifs at a decent price. Since I wanted to craft in a style I never learned and people are such greedy, selfish slugs (no offense but charging a final fee per piece crafted even though I provide EVERY material, C'MON!). Then it hit me in the face like a slippery fish. I'm a max lvl crafter and know 8 traits and I could craft what I was after, so I decided to go and find the motifs myself. And the hunt began.

One style did catch my eye. Ebonhart style, I wanted to do Glass but the prices per motif chapter for Glass is retárded and so is the process of questing Glass motif chapters. I only had the Ebonhart chest in my library so I went to find the other at what I saw were the lowest prices from every guild trader in Tamriel. So after a dreadful 5 hrs hunting this is what i got:

Ebonhart Pact Motif Chapters:

Shield: 4111
Legs: 4111
Belt: 4111
Gloves: 600
Helm: 3000
Shoulder: 3000
Boots: 5000
Total = 23933

I only aimed for the armor, I used other styles to craft my weapons. To me I do feel like I got everything at a decent price, but what does everyone else think? Was it worth it?

Im in a crafting guild called craft addicts. I have 5 traits learned in medium and most weapons. I dont know enchanting (been working on it though im level 35 i think) but a guildie is maxed out, and most people in the guild are maxed out. If you play on PC i believe i have the authority to invite people to it. Nobody asks for money. Ive even tried paying my buildies before for services and they actually mailed my money back. Fairly small guild compared to ETU or similar but everyone is involved and love what they do. Good people

Nestor · November 2016

Doomslinger781 wrote: »

Perhaps it's a simple misunderstanding.

Try looking at it like this: if I bring you all the ingredients to make me a sandwich, does that mean you should make it for me for free? =P

Did you bring me all the condiments? The Utensils? The plates or ziplocks? The sink with the soap and water to wash my hands first? Did you buy me all the ingredients I used learning how to make awesome sandwiches that can make you think differently about your Momma's Cooking? Did you build me the kitchen?

Mats are just a part of the crafting process, an important part, but all the same, it's half the story.