SolarCat02 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

So I was running the vet dailies as a tank and even low level vet dungeons are apparently too hard for most people. I've had to ditch two groups in vet elden root because they took over 5 minutes to get the boss to 90% hp or they stand in aoe until they die.

This is random pugs that had at least 1 max cp dps, I can't tell you how that is even possible to be max cp and do less damage than a 3 hour old stam sorc. It's mind blowing that you can spend that much time getting to that level and avoid learning to play.

Stop letting low cp dps cue for Vet dungeons, seems like 300+ is the minimum and even that isn't enough if their build sucks.

There needs to be a clear progression for difficulty, people have no idea what they can actually finish.

Tell that to the guys that have beaten vMA with less than 300 CPs.

And those guys are your average player? Exactly.

"Those guys" have just as much right to play the game as you do.

I have run veteran dungeons with low CP players with no problems, and I have had headache runs with high CP players. (My favorite was the CP501 who kept blaming me as healer for the fact he kept dying in vWGT at the Planar Inhibitor. I am sorry, but if you want to melee the boss during blue phase I don't think anyone can possibly help you with that.)

You missed my point. The fact that one person has done something doesn't mean everyone can do it. Your example was an outlier, you might as well say since someone solo'd wgt that anyone can do it.

You know what's not an outlier? The max CP player that doesn't have a clue about their role or class.

Besides, I PUG quite a bit and usually have no problems while you seem to have more than your share of issues with them. Maybe it's time to look in the mirror when assigning blame to why your groups can't complete a dungeon.

It's tough for a tank to carry a group with low DPS, so I don't think that is the OP's problem. My low level sap tank can give an edge to groups who need some help with dps but carrying groups with terrible dps is not feasible, so I wouldn't blame the OP for this either.

I do believe Elden Hollow II is a very bad example for low dps though. The only people I have seen finish this final boss in less than ten minutes are veteran trials build dps, and only without a tank.

I personally think her damage shield should be tweaked. It is not a difficult fight at all! I have played with people who have been surfing the Internet or answering the door or watching a movie while fighting her, it's really stupid. It's just a boring and tedious fight, and I think that's bad design, rather than a good challenge.

Wait... Now I'm confused between the 2 versions of the dungeon (this regularly happens to me with several of the dungeons). Isn't it vet Elden Hollow 1 that has the final boss with the damage shield? I didn't think there was a damage shield in EH2, just heals.

Either way, I've done the final boss fight on hard mode in under 10 minutes several times with a traditional group (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS) and without vet trials build DPS (sometimes I've been one of the DPS, and I'm definitely not a vet trials build DPS). But I'm not exactly talking about PUGs here either. I'm talking about groups of friends and guildies who are all pretty experienced with vet dungeons.

I meant 1, not 2,sorry! I edited to prevent my confusion from passing on to others. Still adjusting to the whole I/II thing and talking veteran I sometimes automatically add the two.

lol you and me both... I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever get used to it.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

So I was running the vet dailies as a tank and even low level vet dungeons are apparently too hard for most people. I've had to ditch two groups in vet elden root because they took over 5 minutes to get the boss to 90% hp or they stand in aoe until they die.

This is random pugs that had at least 1 max cp dps, I can't tell you how that is even possible to be max cp and do less damage than a 3 hour old stam sorc. It's mind blowing that you can spend that much time getting to that level and avoid learning to play.

Stop letting low cp dps cue for Vet dungeons, seems like 300+ is the minimum and even that isn't enough if their build sucks.

There needs to be a clear progression for difficulty, people have no idea what they can actually finish.

Tell that to the guys that have beaten vMA with less than 300 CPs.

And those guys are your average player? Exactly.

"Those guys" have just as much right to play the game as you do.

I have run veteran dungeons with low CP players with no problems, and I have had headache runs with high CP players. (My favorite was the CP501 who kept blaming me as healer for the fact he kept dying in vWGT at the Planar Inhibitor. I am sorry, but if you want to melee the boss during blue phase I don't think anyone can possibly help you with that.)

You missed my point. The fact that one person has done something doesn't mean everyone can do it. Your example was an outlier, you might as well say since someone solo'd wgt that anyone can do it.

You know what's not an outlier? The max CP player that doesn't have a clue about their role or class.

Besides, I PUG quite a bit and usually have no problems while you seem to have more than your share of issues with them. Maybe it's time to look in the mirror when assigning blame to why your groups can't complete a dungeon.

You realize as a tank if the dps can't burn the boss with regular warhorns there is nothing much I can do. The dps and heals aren't dying, nice try shifting the blame though. Feeling guilty about poor dps?

So you can do like 90% of the dungeons? Because only a few of them have a dps race in them. Some of them might take awhile but are doable it doesnt matter what your dps is.

I get it, you are in a hurry. But if the dps and the healer aint dying, the only reason your bailing is because your in a hurry, not because the dungeon wont get done.

Totally disagree. Especially when it comes to Eldon hollow 1. I've farmed in there loads recently on my healer with varying results, but no matter what the group, getting to the final boss is a doddle. The variation in my experience is with final boss. With a pair of dps champ 500+ she goes down in ten mins or less but that time goes up and up the lower the level of the dps players. Our group gave up once after seeing that although no one was dying (cos im a boss of a healer) she was only 5% down on health after half an hour with me, the healer, doing most of the damage. Patience is one thing but no one wants to spend an hour of their gaming time trying to kill a mediocre boss after trudging through the whole dungeon.

Vet elden hollow 1 last boss is a nightmare with low DPS.
The shield is up over 95% of the time.
People go into that dungeon then leave on her so often as they are unaware of what is going on and that there is only a small window of opportunity to actually do damage to her. It seemed that the lower health she was the more frequent this opportunity became.
Its a long boring fight. Just got to do it.

Danksta wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

So I was running the vet dailies as a tank and even low level vet dungeons are apparently too hard for most people. I've had to ditch two groups in vet elden root because they took over 5 minutes to get the boss to 90% hp or they stand in aoe until they die.

This is random pugs that had at least 1 max cp dps, I can't tell you how that is even possible to be max cp and do less damage than a 3 hour old stam sorc. It's mind blowing that you can spend that much time getting to that level and avoid learning to play.

Stop letting low cp dps cue for Vet dungeons, seems like 300+ is the minimum and even that isn't enough if their build sucks.

There needs to be a clear progression for difficulty, people have no idea what they can actually finish.

Tell that to the guys that have beaten vMA with less than 300 CPs.

Saw a guy with ~360CP and Flawless Conquerer. Spotted in VCoS. He totally rekt that spider

Cp 210. I have done quite a few vet dungeons but CoA 2 is nearly impossible for me. I dont know if something changed between pre-one tam and present but that vet dungeon is crazy hard and its the one dungeon I need for a valkyn skoria mask.-_-

My issue isnt even my skill or mechanics because I'm capable of out dpsing high CP than me who have no idea wha weaving or animation cancelling is...or who stand in red...or cant block...or interrupt...anyway, its a gear issue at this point.

Asardes wrote: »

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Dont blame anyone. It is your fault. Why didnt u kick the guy at the beginning?
Next time, at the beginning, kick the lowest cp guy, kick the the bow dps, kick the non-Templar healer, kick the non-DK tank. If you do that, I guarantee you will find all dungeons are pretty easy.

Actually all you wrote at the end is plain wrong, bar some of the bow part, since some players do indeed spam bow attacks. Most stamina DDs will use a bow on the back bar for endless hail and poison injection, even doing light attacks in between to activate the passive.

As for:
- non DK tanks: all classes can tank even the hardest content, if they know their build and the content
- non Templar healers: actually some of the best dungeon runs I've had were with a friend that has a mage blade healer, and who rekt bosses with a vengeance, while healing the rest of the group just from siphoned damage
- low CP is a problem just in the 10-100 range from my experience because progress is very fast, people don't have time to learn and/or upgrade the gear. But I won't ever kick a CP200 guy from a group based just on his CP. Only if he sucks.

I would only kick players from groups if they are not fulfilling their designated role, regardless of CP. If a tank doesn't tank, a DD doesn't have DPS or a healer that doesn't heal.

I have to agree here. It's not that easy to seperate the bad apples from the good ones and I really thought those "only templars are healers" and other stuff left the game meanwhile and made room for common knowledge.

The only issue with non templar healers is stamina support and even that you might evade now when using proper monster sets and a masterstaff or a templar DD. Btw I ran vet hard mode pledges with my stamina NB and without the 5-set-bonus from the Ophidian set (because I wear Kragh now) and can do that just fine with just pots. In many cases the 5-set-ophidian-bonus won't help anyways if there are no adds to kill.

In addition I fixed the thread title:

"Dungeon difficulty scale is not confusing but a reasonable amount of people do not scale to even mediocre dungeon difficulty"

The problem is not the game, the problem sits in front of a PC or gaming console and the issue is - in case of the TO - RNG.

I often run PUGs and my experience was from darkest shadows to brightest light. I experienced awesome groups who did speed run after speed run and no death run after no death run. Then I experienced average groups where everything was running smooth and effective at least and I experienced the following (a lot btw):

1) Healers, especially templar healers (and even 300 CP+), who don't know Warhorn, Elemental Drain, Siphon Soul, bubbles. Even Repentance and spears are missing sometimes (although most templar healers seem to think there are only stamina dds in this game). Healing is ok, but even more important is buffing. To their defence, they might have had bad groups with low dps and so they switched buff skills by dps skills....but at least after the first boss you should know if support makes sense, because the dps was fine.

2) Tanks who spot even bosses with the range spot from the undaunted skill line, which means no debuffing and resistance decrease. A good tank is even able to control his ressources in that way that he might pop a bubble here and there. Having warhorn slotted and keeping up a warhorn rota with the healer is a meta even for 4-men-instances.

3) but all the just mentioned, does not help at all if there are guys in this game who do not know to do damage, but think they are DDs. I see people (300 CPs+) who think playing in my impenetrable heavy armor PvP suit is fine for PvE (the other DD will do it and carry me), I see the just mentioned standing at the netch boss in DC2 with a twohanded weapon equipped, I see people who use skills no DD with a brain would ever use for dps, I see people who think doing medium and light staff attacks should be enough (the other DD will do it and carry me), I see people who think healers are able to heal oneshots in this game. I see people who don't know what the right mouse button is for and that it might be a good idea even as a DD or a healer to use it sometimes. I see people with true bowbuilds, standing at 28m, doing their below average dps, outside of every healing circle or combat prayer boost, pulling all adds apart or are the reason for special scripted boss attacks (endboss Tempest Island anyone ?). Sadly there are tons of DDs out there who group up with the DD group symbol and have no clue. My guess is that just 25% of all so called DDs get the job done in an average or above measure.

Whole ESO is dps centered, in trials as ever and in vet hardmode pledges too, where the last bosses have 5m+ and even 7m+ health and do sometimes annoying oneshot mechanics. Besides their main roles tanks and healers are buff totems for the DDs.

More dps, shorter fights, less mechanics and scripted one shot attacks, less chances to die, more chances to complete.

That's it with ESO, that's the whole secret.

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Cp 210. I have done quite a few vet dungeons but CoA 2 is nearly impossible for me. I dont know if something changed between pre-one tam and present but that vet dungeon is crazy hard and its the one dungeon I need for a valkyn skoria mask.-_-

That's how the dungeon has been throughout most of its existence. It has been nerfed to the ground in DB patch, and simply restored in One Tamriel as veteran version. The nerfed version is the current normal one, but that drops no helmets.

What boss exactly do you have problems with? Only Skoria? Because most groups fail either at Fire Maw or Ash Titan.