The Meta Isn't Always Fun - Do Your Own Thing

Wollust · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Emothic · October 2016

Unlike alot of players, I'm forced to go with meta builds and the reason why is because of time. I don't have time to figure out from the hundreds of item combos will work. I don't have time to grind out resorces for those items, I don't have time to figure out what skills to use, I don't have time to figure out champion points, I don't have time for everything I listed to present a failed build and start all over again. So I have to rely on meta builds in order to keep playing the game, espically in PvP. Even if I did take the time to do everything I listed. By the time I get close to completing the build a new game update/patch will be released and the build I was working for is now outdated and useless.

So in short. Players can go do their "own thing" like you said. Make their own builds, but when you don't have time to do something like that. Then you are forced to go with meta builds, or other wise stop playing the game because your character is no longer effective in battle.

Hallothiel · October 2016

Um, hate to admit this but I have absolutely NO idea what my 'dps' is. How do you work it out? (On ps4).

But know that it's probably not that good. But don't care. Seem to do ok; can do some stuff solo, but not all. Mainly steer clear of dungeons as would not really take them that seriously & that appears to annoy some players....

But then I play this for amusement & not as some sort of validation.....

Elsonso · October 2016

Hallothiel wrote: »

Um, hate to admit this but I have absolutely NO idea what my 'dps' is. How do you work it out? (On ps4).

You are lucky. It takes an add-on.

Monsters die before you do: DPS probably OK
You die before monsters: DPS might be an issue.

Honestly, that is all most players need to know in this game.

Cathexis · October 2016

I dont use the meta and get on just fine.

SaibotLiu · October 2016

Hallothiel wrote: »

Um, hate to admit this but I have absolutely NO idea what my 'dps' is. How do you work it out? (On ps4).

But know that it's probably not that good. But don't care. Seem to do ok; can do some stuff solo, but not all. Mainly steer clear of dungeons as would not really take them that seriously & that appears to annoy some players....

But then I play this for amusement & not as some sort of validation.....

dps=damage per second. Wouldnt really worry about it much on the PS4, I think youll find more players like yourself there than pc.

And that's a bit of irony. Im also playing on ps4 now, and I think from an mmo purists pov, it's a more accurate presentation of an old school mmo. It's more like the old days of EQ etc. like one poster mentioned.

I play my game legit with as little outside info as I can. For the same reason I dont look up walk throughs for single player games, discovery is part of it.

Of course with the competetion element players are looking for every tiny edge, well go for it. A mechanic taught is worth half as much as one learned IMO.

WillhelmBlack · October 2016

That one has 3 damage skills on his two bars to get 40k Magicka.

Julianos · October 2016

AC is a broken mechanic it should be fixed. It ruins PVP people using scripts and macros i see poeple in cyordiil or while dueling they attack me with like 10 attacks but they look like they just standing still and they inhumanely fast.

They say its AC but no they can't do so perfect or so fast especially with lag those people using scripts and abusing AC.

kadar · October 2016

Axorn wrote: »

AC is a broken mechanic it should be fixed. It ruins PVP people using scripts and macros i see poeple in cyordiil or while dueling they attack me with like 10 attacks but they look like they just standing still and they inhumanely fast.

They say its AC but no they can't do so perfect or so fast especially with lag those people using scripts and abusing AC.

"I don't like animation cancelling."

Fixed that for you.

Julianos · October 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

AC is a broken mechanic it should be fixed. It ruins PVP people using scripts and macros i see poeple in cyordiil or while dueling they attack me with like 10 attacks but they look like they just standing still and they inhumanely fast.

They say its AC but no they can't do so perfect or so fast especially with lag those people using scripts and abusing AC.

"I don't like animation cancelling."

Fixed that for you.

It doesnt matter i like it or not. Cheaters abusing it and no way ZOS can detect macros or scripts so it should be removed from the game it gives those cheaters huge advantage on real players.

Masel · October 2016

I've done everything except vMoL and all of my chars as tank, heal and DD and i dont use meta builds, because it's just not creative and boring to copy someone else's work. I never pulled more than 35k dps, even in vet trials. I simply refuse to use vMA weapons on stamchars (MAster weapons ftw), because i don't want to use what everyone else uses, it's boring.
I have a fully golded TBS-VO-vMA Weapon stamblade rusting on his Wolfmount because i don't like the Metabuild. Most content in ESO is easily doable with 20-25k DPS, as long as you follow mechanics and know what to do. With T1 you need to follow mechanics anyway. Think outside the box guys!

idk · October 2016

@WuffyCerulei

No one is saying, or has ever said, everyone must build to the "meta". Heck, not everyone is into vet trials to begin with and that is really the only content that requires a group have decent DPS.

Of course, a large stray from the better builds would drop dps and that should be expected. Every MMO has top builds for top dps, ESO is no exception.

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

@AzuraKin

Nice rage post.

It is widely known fact that everything you are claiming to be cheating is blessed by Zos, Therefore not cheating at all. It is an accepted part of the game.

I also find it humorous when someone says something is a sign the game is dying. Players have been posting this game has been dying for more than 30 months, and they all seem to have been wrong. Rage seems to spawn claims like this.

As for 20k dps without animation canceling, easy as pie. Only thing I do that could be considered animation canceling is a light attack weave and can hit well into the 30k range. 35k in raids normally.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@WuffyCerulei

No one is saying, or has ever said, everyone must build to the "meta". Heck, not everyone is into vet trials to begin with and that is really the only content that requires a group have decent DPS.

Of course, a large stray from the better builds would drop dps and that should be expected. Every MMO has top builds for top dps, ESO is no exception.

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

@AzuraKin

Nice rage post.

It is widely known fact that everything you are claiming to be cheating is blessed by Zos, Therefore not cheating at all. It is an accepted part of the game.

I also find it humorous when someone says something is a sign the game is dying. Players have been posting this game has been dying for more than 30 months, and they all seem to have been wrong. Rage seems to spawn claims like this.

As for 20k dps without animation canceling, easy as pie. Only thing I do is light attacks and can hit well into the 30k range. 35k in raids normally.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Clarify something for me, your saying you hit well into the 30 K range, with light attacks, alone?

If the answer is yes explain how your measuring it and how you achieved this, I wanna hear this.

idk · October 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@WuffyCerulei

No one is saying, or has ever said, everyone must build to the "meta". Heck, not everyone is into vet trials to begin with and that is really the only content that requires a group have decent DPS.

Of course, a large stray from the better builds would drop dps and that should be expected. Every MMO has top builds for top dps, ESO is no exception.

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

@AzuraKin

Nice rage post.

It is widely known fact that everything you are claiming to be cheating is blessed by Zos, Therefore not cheating at all. It is an accepted part of the game.

I also find it humorous when someone says something is a sign the game is dying. Players have been posting this game has been dying for more than 30 months, and they all seem to have been wrong. Rage seems to spawn claims like this.

As for 20k dps without animation canceling, easy as pie. Only thing I do is light attacks and can hit well into the 30k range. 35k in raids normally.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Clarify something for me, your saying you hit well into the 30 K range, with light attacks, alone?

If the answer is yes explain how your measuring it and how you achieved this, I wanna hear this.

Clarifying, only thing I do that can be considered animation canceling is light attacks. Though I actually do more of a medium attack weave.

Thx for pointing that out.

Bouldercleave · October 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I have just resigned to this completely . I PvE and grind cp , seldom log in Cyrodiil anymore . Some people love these proc sets so they are happy copying builds . It is so much easier doing my own thing and not caring . I quit asking people to take me on dungeon runs and just solo what I can .

You and me both my friend.

I gravitate towards certain elements on builds, but have never focused solely on the "Meta Man" syndrome.

I don't even group seriously anymore because it is now so toxic.

Ajaxduo · October 2016

I agree with you OP, somewhat. I mean sure you don't need to run meta related builds for non vet content. There isn't really even a 'required' DPS check for most encounters outside of Trials. Diverse gameplay is what ESO sells and people should be able to do exactly that. However, if you join a Veteran Dungeon/Trial group and you are spamming bow light attacks or generally something incredibly inefficient and refuse to listen and fulfill your role in the group then you are deserving of the kick that will follow. Some people value time more than others, some value immersion more. Trying to forcefully teach those that don't want to listen is pointless, better to /ignore and move on. Or join a guild!

SkylarkX · October 2016

Am I doing meta right?

Mic1007 · October 2016

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We removed an image from a post because it referenced real world politics.

You mean the fake world. The only real world is Nirn.

Abeille · October 2016

Mic1007 wrote: »

ZOS_DaryaK wrote: »

We removed an image from a post because it referenced real world politics.

You mean the fake world. The only real world is Nirn.

Relevant:

Kippesnikke · October 2016

Kyoma · October 2016

From kippesnikke:

ConeOfSilence · October 2016

So freaking what if you are not an elite DPS player do what you want to do as long as you are enjoying the content that you choose to play in the game I too am not an elite player I just play the daily's and do my own thing. I am too old to do the KB/controller tap dance ( gamer from Pac Man days ) to get the most out of it, I don't care I just enjoy doing what I do.

AzuraKin · October 2016

br0steen wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Zos's official stance on animation canceling was that is was an unintended side effect of the combat mechanics, but adds an interesting depth of skill for the game. So they kept it.

So based on those who made the game, you could argue the animations ARE there for a reason like you said. The reason? To animation cancel. /Dropmic

actually they said that about light attack weaving, not animation cancelling. light attack weaving is just doing a light attack, with a skill, not cancelling a skills animation to do another skill then cancel that animation to do anotehr skill pulling of up to 5 skills per second instead of the 1 skill per second designed with animations.

Massive_Stain · October 2016

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

TLDR:low? 20k dps

ArchMikem · October 2016

br0steen wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Zos's official stance on animation canceling was that is was an unintended side effect of the combat mechanics, but adds an interesting depth of skill for the game. So they kept it.

So based on those who made the game, you could argue the animations ARE there for a reason like you said. The reason? To animation cancel. /Dropmic

If something was unintended to exist, then it has no reason to exist. It exists as a side effect, it wasn't meant to be, therefore, it has no reason to be here. Have a cookie for trying, but you didn't earn the whole box.

Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage, you can find many ways to get that build to work.

I actually kinda am a Khajiit Magicka Templar with high damage. I can get pretty epic crits with my Heavy staff attacks, Flares, and Jesus Beams.

TheSeer · October 2016

*Has an Orc Magplar and Heals just fine*

acw37162 · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Cough b******t cough

kvlou79 · October 2016

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Um, hate to admit this but I have absolutely NO idea what my 'dps' is. How do you work it out? (On ps4).

But know that it's probably not that good. But don't care. Seem to do ok; can do some stuff solo, but not all. Mainly steer clear of dungeons as would not really take them that seriously & that appears to annoy some players....

But then I play this for amusement & not as some sort of validation.....

dps=damage per second. Wouldnt really worry about it much on the PS4, I think youll find more players like yourself there than pc.

And that's a bit of irony. Im also playing on ps4 now, and I think from an mmo purists pov, it's a more accurate presentation of an old school mmo. It's more like the old days of EQ etc. like one poster mentioned.

I play my game legit with as little outside info as I can. For the same reason I dont look up walk throughs for single player games, discovery is part of it.

Of course with the competetion element players are looking for every tiny edge, well go for it. A mechanic taught is worth half as much as one learned IMO.

"A mechanic taught is worth half as much as one learned IMO." Bingo.

Toc de Malsvi · October 2016

Xjcon wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

It's misinformation like this that leads to people being scrubs. If you weave ability's in the right order and wear gear that best compliments your setup it's super easy to break 20k dps.

LaiTash wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

You're absolutely correct, but the mmo community is now too spoiled to let you play comfortably the way you want without everyone *** about you're not doing 30k dps min.

There are also a lots of DPS checks in this game, however, but you can still do most vet dungeons with 20k.

Fairly certain you can do all Vet dungeons with 20k dps.

Edit: I say this because I primarily PVE on my Bosmer DK Archer using heavy attacks and DoT damage and I have yet to test higher than 22k. Despite this I have done all the vet dungeons often when my damage was carrying the group or my co DPS were dead. I have competed VMA with nothing but bow damage and Dots and without any VMA weapons. The requirements for Veteran 4man content is not nearly as difficult as so many around here make it seem. I've even done the speed runs on more than half of the Vet4man content with my bow.

Edit:Edit: I am not trying to vie for 20k as good dps, I am fully aware that I run a very very sub optimal build. Merely pointing out that vet 4 man content is generally a complete walk in the park even with 20k dps. If you are struggling with it, it is almost entirely a fault of your inability to perform simple mechanics and avoid damage.

Toc de Malsvi · October 2016

Of course there really is a wide margin of how you are measuring your dps, which fight, what size group, what buffs are you receiving. One person is basing it on their average experience in trials, the other is based on their experience in 4 man dungeons and another is basing on Bloodspawn tests, then a 4th is basing it on the streamers they watch, while a 5th is basing it on the 3-4 seconds of AOE burst of an add pack.

If you want to definitively define concrete numbers to associate with good, bad, or great dps, you really need to come up with concrete tests and benchmarks. Just saying I pull 'X' and you are bad isn't close to being a reliable measure of performance. To be brutally honest simply because you produced a result once does not in any way imply that you can consistently produce that result.

I for one would love to see a test dummy/dummies that you could actually pro-actively test your rotations on, especially on console.