Can't Wait for Crown Crates I'm So Excited!!

Lukums1 · October 2016

Abeille wrote: »

@Lukums1 , no, you have not.

You know how I know you have not?

You didn't mention once the main issue, which pretty much EVERYBODY who is against the crates mentioned at least once: The direction a game takes after they introduce these crates is really, really bad. Every single game. Not one game that made this move, ESPECIALLY with a certain lady behind it, escaped this fate. Free to play, content scarcity, crates becoming main and then only source of income, complete ruin. There is no reason to think it will be different with ESO, especially since that same lady that killed so many games with this kind of scheme is working with ZOS now.

It is always like this. Always. We saw this happening way too many times.

We are not going to contribute to that because we care about the direction of the game. Because we are TES fans and we want the game to thrive.

The reason why you are seeing so many posts about gambling and money is because you crate supporters keep bringing it up as if those were the actual issues we have with the crates.

I'm saddened that you guys are going to support this, especially for something so futile like a shiny new mount. Maybe you are MMO hoppers so it doesn't matter if ESO goes down this route to you, because you are just going to migrate to the next game.

I for one don't think a shiny new mount is worth the health of the game.

Alright you make some what of a point.

But it is cosmetic right? The items being brought without crown crates aren't great.

Granted Aion MMO did this as well... however they added the BEST weapons to their crown system by 1/10000 chance.

Can I say... even if this happend (and I'm with you hopefully it won't) but would it be THAT bad that someone spent $10000 for EXAMPLE to obtain something they are after...?

Does this not get ZOS income to keep making content? I'm sorry maybe I'm not thinking in the same mind set you are.

Abeille · October 2016

Lukums1 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

@Lukums1 , no, you have not.

You know how I know you have not?

You didn't mention once the main issue, which pretty much EVERYBODY who is against the crates mentioned at least once: The direction a game takes after they introduce these crates is really, really bad. Every single game. Not one game that made this move, ESPECIALLY with a certain lady behind it, escaped this fate. Free to play, content scarcity, crates becoming main and then only source of income, complete ruin. There is no reason to think it will be different with ESO, especially since that same lady that killed so many games with this kind of scheme is working with ZOS now.

It is always like this. Always. We saw this happening way too many times.

We are not going to contribute to that because we care about the direction of the game. Because we are TES fans and we want the game to thrive.

The reason why you are seeing so many posts about gambling and money is because you crate supporters keep bringing it up as if those were the actual issues we have with the crates.

I'm saddened that you guys are going to support this, especially for something so futile like a shiny new mount. Maybe you are MMO hoppers so it doesn't matter if ESO goes down this route to you, because you are just going to migrate to the next game.

I for one don't think a shiny new mount is worth the health of the game.

Alright you make some what of a point.

But it is cosmetic right? The items being brought without crown crates aren't great.

Granted Aion MMO did this as well... however they added the BEST weapons to their crown system by 1/10000 chance.

Can I say... even if this happend (and I'm with you hopefully it won't) but would it be THAT bad that someone spent $10000 for EXAMPLE to obtain something they are after...?

Does this not get ZOS income to keep making content? I'm sorry maybe I'm not thinking in the same mind set you are.

But it doesn't matter if it is cosmetic

Look at you. You are ready to spend $300 in a cosmetic. That's the issue.

People like you spend so much on these, regardless of what is inside, as long as it is exclusive, that these boxes eventually become the main source of income for the company.

Why are they going to make content like DLCs that sell for $20 when they can just center development around the crates and make $300 instead? Or even $10000? That's how the shift on development focus happens. So yes, it would be that bad.

I believe you thought I was saying I fear ZOS is going to put p2w stuff in the boxes. That's not what I'm saying at all, although it is a possibility and it would be even worse if they did. But even if they don't, it doesn't matter, because the development shift will happen anyway.

Because the boxes are where the money is for them. Not on developing more content. Money makes more money. Are they investing the money they make with the boxes in content, that brings them less money, or in more exclusive stuff for the boxes, that made them more money? If they use the money made with the boxes to develop content instead of to make more things for the boxes, they will be the first in the MMO industry to do so.

Solus · October 2016

Lukums1 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

@Lukums1 , no, you have not.

You know how I know you have not?

You didn't mention once the main issue, which pretty much EVERYBODY who is against the crates mentioned at least once: The direction a game takes after they introduce these crates is really, really bad. Every single game. Not one game that made this move, ESPECIALLY with a certain lady behind it, escaped this fate. Free to play, content scarcity, crates becoming main and then only source of income, complete ruin. There is no reason to think it will be different with ESO, especially since that same lady that killed so many games with this kind of scheme is working with ZOS now.

It is always like this. Always. We saw this happening way too many times.

We are not going to contribute to that because we care about the direction of the game. Because we are TES fans and we want the game to thrive.

The reason why you are seeing so many posts about gambling and money is because you crate supporters keep bringing it up as if those were the actual issues we have with the crates.

I'm saddened that you guys are going to support this, especially for something so futile like a shiny new mount. Maybe you are MMO hoppers so it doesn't matter if ESO goes down this route to you, because you are just going to migrate to the next game.

I for one don't think a shiny new mount is worth the health of the game.

Alright you make some what of a point.

But it is cosmetic right? The items being brought without crown crates aren't great.

Granted Aion MMO did this as well... however they added the BEST weapons to their crown system by 1/10000 chance.

Can I say... even if this happend (and I'm with you hopefully it won't) but would it be THAT bad that someone spent $10000 for EXAMPLE to obtain something they are after...?

Does this not get ZOS income to keep making content? I'm sorry maybe I'm not thinking in the same mind set you are.

It does get them the money, yes. However there are other ways to make money, by actually making content and not cheaping out by taking advantage of a percentage of their customer base that would succumb to buying something that isn't worth their money.

They are selling boxes of "maybes"

AtraisMachina · October 2016

Blasphamy

Recremen · October 2016

Lukums1 wrote: »

As mentioned previously.

I'm ready to drop $300.00 on release of these crown crates just to ensure a mount

I feel like it's people being hurt because they.

1. Don't have money
2. Don't feel like gambling to get "what they want" - which is why MOST of you are having a cry (deal with it)
3. Think it's PAY to win (which it isn't as it's purely "looks")

If it gave you extra mount speed, if it gave you a mad title, if it somehow gave you a player the advantage over another that has spent 0 then it's pay to win. Which in that case I'd be with you all 100%.

If we want to blow our money out of our butts then it's our choice not you people on forums crying every god dam day.

Sure it might be somewhat of a step in a certain direction BUT until we see PAY to win features i think the whole craze of cry cry cry on forums until they listen to me mentality is misplaced.

Because let's face it... you have people like me and others who are ready to empty our wallets and the reality is?

ZOS won. Fair and square they enticed us to WANT something we don't have. They advertised something that has captured and amazed us, much like walking past a store on a saturday morning.

I agree it's gambling but the reality is, the mount comes with an estimated value of $300.00 if you don't want to invest THIS amount don't do it, as you would be considered some what of a moron as without this investment you MAY or MAY not get what you're seeking.

Sorry to be so forthcoming or rude in some peoples eyes but this is the absolute truth.

Luke

@Lukums1

I think you're failing to under stand, there is no "ensuring" a mount. Pure RNG is, as a mathematical fact, not guaranteed. Do you know what would guarantee a mount? If it were for sale at a fixed price. Even if it were for $300, which is the amount you claim to be willing to pay, that is at least an actual dollar value. So what you're looking for isn't to gamble, it's just to pay an "exclusively" high price. Also I have no idea where you're even getting that $300 figure from to begin with. It sounds like you're picking a high number, ignoring math, and hoping that by remaining ignorant you'll somehow get the thing you want.

ArgoCye · October 2016

"Why are they going to make content like DLCs that sell for $20 when they can just center development around the crates and make $300 instead?"

Because new content attracts new players and brings back lapsed ones. It is quite arrogant for many of the posters here to blithely assume that ZoS are ignorant to this fact. They know that Crown Crates won't do what new content will. Crown Crates just give them more resources to create more content.

B2P, class balance, stamina versions of skills, no central trading house, class balance, F2P, Crown Store, console versions, class balance, viscous death/proxy det, poisons, class balance, nerf to BoL, boost to heavy armor passives/Black Rose, class balance, one Tamriel, weapon ultis, proc sets, crown boxes … a long list of things that were/are going to ruin the game (and there are plenty that I have forgotten). And yet, we're still here.

Lukums1 · October 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

As mentioned previously.

I'm ready to drop $300.00 on release of these crown crates just to ensure a mount

I feel like it's people being hurt because they.

1. Don't have money
2. Don't feel like gambling to get "what they want" - which is why MOST of you are having a cry (deal with it)
3. Think it's PAY to win (which it isn't as it's purely "looks")

If it gave you extra mount speed, if it gave you a mad title, if it somehow gave you a player the advantage over another that has spent 0 then it's pay to win. Which in that case I'd be with you all 100%.

If we want to blow our money out of our butts then it's our choice not you people on forums crying every god dam day.

Sure it might be somewhat of a step in a certain direction BUT until we see PAY to win features i think the whole craze of cry cry cry on forums until they listen to me mentality is misplaced.

Because let's face it... you have people like me and others who are ready to empty our wallets and the reality is?

ZOS won. Fair and square they enticed us to WANT something we don't have. They advertised something that has captured and amazed us, much like walking past a store on a saturday morning.

I agree it's gambling but the reality is, the mount comes with an estimated value of $300.00 if you don't want to invest THIS amount don't do it, as you would be considered some what of a moron as without this investment you MAY or MAY not get what you're seeking.

Sorry to be so forthcoming or rude in some peoples eyes but this is the absolute truth.

Luke

@Lukums1

I think you're failing to under stand, there is no "ensuring" a mount. Pure RNG is, as a mathematical fact, not guaranteed. Do you know what would guarantee a mount? If it were for sale at a fixed price. Even if it were for $300, which is the amount you claim to be willing to pay, that is at least an actual dollar value. So what you're looking for isn't to gamble, it's just to pay an "exclusively" high price. Also I have no idea where you're even getting that $300 figure from to begin with. It sounds like you're picking a high number, ignoring math, and hoping that by remaining ignorant you'll somehow get the thing you want.

I understand you guys and the point of view now, in relation to why make content when I can create a silly little mount.

I get that and now understand.

Oh please, don't get me wrong my $300.00 was an estimate which I did state in my original post and this was concluded that if you spend $300.00 to obtain crates, the doubles and triples etc you get will grab you the currency to buy the mount.

Unlike some, we participated in testing the crown crates and it's to my and a few other players who took part that MATH states if you were to spend EXAMPLE $300.00 the doubles of the items you already have will contribute to currency to obtain the mount using this.

I do however understand why it's bad! BUT ... it will probably happen.

JimT722 · October 2016

ArgoCye wrote: »

"Why are they going to make content like DLCs that sell for $20 when they can just center development around the crates and make $300 instead?"

Because new content attracts new players and brings back lapsed ones. It is quite arrogant for many of the posters here to blithely assume that ZoS are ignorant to this fact. They know that Crown Crates won't do what new content will. Crown Crates just give them more resources to create more content.

B2P, class balance, stamina versions of skills, no central trading house, class balance, F2P, Crown Store, console versions, class balance, viscous death/proxy det, poisons, class balance, nerf to BoL, boost to heavy armor passives/Black Rose, class balance, one Tamriel, weapon ultis, proc sets, crown boxes … a long list of things that were/are going to ruin the game (and there are plenty that I have forgotten). And yet, we're still here.

I have seen many games do this exact same thing, it will ruin the game. It actually appears it will be worse then I had expected from what I have seen.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

If the game goes here, it will be ruined. Having done this before with other games, I would be insane to expect ZOS to do better.

Abeille · October 2016

ArgoCye wrote: »

"Why are they going to make content like DLCs that sell for $20 when they can just center development around the crates and make $300 instead?"

Because new content attracts new players and brings back lapsed ones. It is quite arrogant for many of the posters here to blithely assume that ZoS are ignorant to this fact. They know that Crown Crates won't do what new content will. Crown Crates just give them more resources to create more content.

B2P, class balance, stamina versions of skills, no central trading house, class balance, F2P, Crown Store, console versions, class balance, viscous death/proxy det, poisons, class balance, nerf to BoL, boost to heavy armor passives/Black Rose, class balance, one Tamriel, weapon ultis, proc sets, crown boxes … a long list of things that were/are going to ruin the game (and there are plenty that I have forgotten). And yet, we're still here.

That's for a company that is worried for the life of the game in the long term. These crates showing up shows that that's not the case.

Show me a game that thrived on new content after this kind of scheme was added to it.
More importantly, show me a game where the lady specialized in B2P - F2P transition worked on that didn't end in ruins.

Again, what reason do we have to believe ESO will be different when it is following the same patterns - and hiring the same people - that the previous MMOs that ended in the gutter?

If you pay attention, content already started slowing down.
We got from "4 dlcs a year" to "not all dlcs will be big like Orsinium" and then to "not all updates will be dlcs". Speaking of Orsinium, it is turning one year next week, isn't it? And the plot line it initiated wasn't touched upon since then. We got no update on the Daedric war in a whole year of updates. I presume that's because ZOS isn't aiming at the long-term player, the player that will buy all DLCs to follow an overarching story. They are aiming at the nomads, who will buy some self-contained DLC, a bunch of Crown Crates and then leave to the next MMO.

Vvardenfell is my last hope. As I said in another thread about this subject, if Vvardenfell doesn't have any updates on the impending Daedric War I will assume the plot line was dropped.

BigBragg · October 2016

Sadly it's implementation means that the game will got the way of WildStar, StarWars - The Old Republic, DawnGate, Secret World, Perfect World International, Jade Dynasty, Diner Dash, Wedding Dash 3, PetShop Hop, Mass Effect 3, Mass Effect Infiltrator, Mass Effect3 DataPad, Evolution, Jungle Heat, Dragon Age Legends, Command and Conquer Tiberium Alliances, and many more.

ArgoCye · October 2016

I hear two different things from the critics: 1. it will ruin the game and 2. that gambling is bad. Okay. Let's address the latter first. Gambling is bad. I have no intention of buying Crown Crates. But I did buy a bunch of Defensive Armor Boxes in Cyrodiil so I could test out a particular set. That was gambling. You could also argue that making a proc build is essentially a gamble. Point is, gambling is alive and well in ESO (hell you can gamble on racing frogs in one questline).

It will kill the game. Yeah, I keep hearing about the long list of MMOs that died because of gamble boxes, but I am 100% certain that those were NOT the main reason why these games died. I find it hard to believe that an optional part of a game that will in no way influence your skill or ability to play will be responsible for killing a game.

I think it all boils down to a group of entitled players who are simply afraid of change - for fear of losing what they have or others getting it. That said, everyone can have an opinion and we will just have to wait to see who ends up being right.But I am confident that when ESO does die, it will be for a bunch of other reasons (and Lord knows there are many) before it is because of gamble boxes.

Abeille · October 2016

ArgoCye wrote: »

It will kill the game. Yeah, I keep hearing about the long list of MMOs that died because of gamble boxes, but I am 100% certain that those were NOT the main reason why these games died. I find it hard to believe that an optional part of a game that will in no way influence your skill or ability to play will be responsible for killing a game.

It was the reason why they died. The boxes became the focus of development, people left. It is like a last ditch effort to make a ton of money before the end.

I mean no offense, but do you have experience with those? Have you seen this happening in other games before, or are you just speculating that there must have been another reason?

ArgoCye · October 2016

Abeille wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

It will kill the game. Yeah, I keep hearing about the long list of MMOs that died because of gamble boxes, but I am 100% certain that those were NOT the main reason why these games died. I find it hard to believe that an optional part of a game that will in no way influence your skill or ability to play will be responsible for killing a game.

It was the reason why they died. The boxes became the focus of development, people left. It is like a last ditch effort to make a ton of money before the end.

I mean no offense, but do you have experience with those? Have you seen this happening in other games before, or are you just speculating that there must have been another reason?

No offence taken at all - this is a lively discussion that I am sure ZoS is noting, so it is good that everyone has their two-cents' worth (or $5 in my case).

Truth be told I have no experience in these old MMO's you refer to and am happy to be enlightened - ESO is the only one I have stuck with for more than a year. But again, while gamble boxes may well have added to a game's demise, I highly doubt that they were the cause. I suspect they were already dying. ESO is not, hence my speculating that the same thing won't happen here.

So while I cannot claim to have any direct knowledge of gamble-boxes and their role in killing past MMOs', neither can any in this thread claim to know about ZoS's motivations, future plans, financial position, staffing, etc, etc.

hamburgerler76 · October 2016

Deathgiggle wrote: »

That's the fun of it though, the mounts will actually be "rare." I can't stand it when everyone has the same cool mount as soon as it gets released. When you see a Crown Crate mount you will know the guy either got really lucky or had to pay out the beejebus fot it lol

Plus I like the fact that they will switch up the crates for holidays and special events and put special items in them if you purchase one during those times. Just adds a whole new element to the game for people like me. I know some kids can't afford it but why punish us adults who want to spend a little money on a game? it is my main hobby after all. My father likes to bass fish and he bought a 25k bass boat and hundreds every year on fuel, baits, rods and reels, etc.
My Uncle likes to play golf so he bought a fancy golf cart, a custom made set of clubs and pays green fees and club dues throughout the year.

I love video games, so I bought a big TV, a PS4 and don't mind spending a little bit here and there to support my habit :P
There are many more like me out there, in fact I was kind of shocked to learn how many adults play this game vs others I've played.

yes but your father did not pay 25k to maybe get a boat he got a boat he doesnt maybe get a gallon of gas he gets a gallon the problem with this trash is it an rng gamble now not only do we get to waste money but we get to waste money of something we might want the drop rate is so small its dumb and the trade in rate for crwons is terrible i spent 27k crowns during pts to test crates not 1 rare drop! and only ended with 270 gems thats 270$ of crowns and only about half of what i would need in gems to just buy the mount threw trade in gems it is a money grab and nothing more and i am ashamed at ZoS

hamburgerler76 · October 2016

Deathgiggle wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Deathgiggle wrote: »

That's the fun of it though, the mounts will actually be "rare." I can't stand it when everyone has the same cool mount as soon as it gets released. When you see a Crown Crate mount you will know the guy either got really lucky or had to pay out the beejebus fot it lol

Plus I like the fact that they will switch up the crates for holidays and special events and put special items in them if you purchase one during those times. Just adds a whole new element to the game for people like me. I know some kids can't afford it but why punish us adults who want to spend a little money on a game? it is my main hobby after all. My father likes to bass fish and he bought a 25k bass boat and hundreds every year on fuel, baits, rods and reels, etc.
My Uncle likes to play golf so he bought a fancy golf cart, a custom made set of clubs and pays green fees and club dues throughout the year.

I love video games, so I bought a big TV, a PS4 and don't mind spending a little bit here and there to support my habit :P
There are many more like me out there, in fact I was kind of shocked to learn how many adults play this game vs others I've played.

Yep. Either they got lucky, or they paid craploads of money for it.

I won't think, "Man, that is so cool.", or 'Wow, what a fantastic mount.". All I'll be thinking is "Oh man were they stupid." And then move on and not look twice.

So people are stupid for paying money for something? Are you serious? I think maybe you just don't have any extra money in life. Not judging, just that I work hard every day to make money to "buy" things that make "me" happy!! If a Coca-cola and a Twix bar on the way home from work makes me happy, then I'm gonna pick one up. Is it a waste of money?? I'm sure it is, I won't die without it but it makes me happy.

If I go to the dealership and buy a new car should I get the regular Toyota Camry cause that is what everyone else drives? I mean it's the easy one to get and everyone can afford the $299 a month right? What if I want the Corvette, should it be off limits? I mean if you want a normal white horse and you wanna save your pennies, then by all means ride that horsey until the sun goes down! I on the other hand like my life to be filled with flashier or more unique things.

Your also saying that people who buy Lottery tickets are idiots and wasting their money as well? Isn't the Lotto supposed to be fun, kind of like the new Crates? No one seriously plays the lotto to win, it's just a fun dream of hoping to win something if you get lucky.

I'm really sorry if you live at home with Mom and Pop and can't buy the cool stuff yet but if you did like me and my brother when we were young then maybe you can buy some Crowns. Get out and rake some leaves or shovel snow for some Crown money! Get a part time job at one of those fast food places like Dairy Queen or something. I do love the guy that serves me my Blizzard every Saturday

and here your own quote you go to a dealer ship but with crowns crates you go to a dealer and maybe get the car you want?? who knows you might get a truck or hell you might not even get a car you but it will be some great stereos you cant use or dont need lol crown crates are a money grabbing joke thats why ZoS is to scared to comment on them anymore

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2016

The boxes wont kill the game. But it will gut it of any soul and otherwise amazing content that might have been possible. The boxes will take up more and more development time and resources. Before you know it the "content" we're given will be overly attached in some way to the Crates/Store. Theyll go back and overhaul older systems to monetize them more (and will tell everyone theyre doing it because they feel the system is no longer as useful and the players want it to be better). The changes will chase a lot of Veteran Players away. But the Whales will remain and new comers will think the Crates and the heavy monetization to be the norm so they wont complain or at the least will find reasons to look the other way.

The game will continue on. But as long as they have Developers focusing on the Crates. Dont expect the other aspects of the game to flourish.

Recremen · October 2016

Lukums1 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

As mentioned previously.

I'm ready to drop $300.00 on release of these crown crates just to ensure a mount

I feel like it's people being hurt because they.

1. Don't have money
2. Don't feel like gambling to get "what they want" - which is why MOST of you are having a cry (deal with it)
3. Think it's PAY to win (which it isn't as it's purely "looks")

If it gave you extra mount speed, if it gave you a mad title, if it somehow gave you a player the advantage over another that has spent 0 then it's pay to win. Which in that case I'd be with you all 100%.

If we want to blow our money out of our butts then it's our choice not you people on forums crying every god dam day.

Sure it might be somewhat of a step in a certain direction BUT until we see PAY to win features i think the whole craze of cry cry cry on forums until they listen to me mentality is misplaced.

Because let's face it... you have people like me and others who are ready to empty our wallets and the reality is?

ZOS won. Fair and square they enticed us to WANT something we don't have. They advertised something that has captured and amazed us, much like walking past a store on a saturday morning.

I agree it's gambling but the reality is, the mount comes with an estimated value of $300.00 if you don't want to invest THIS amount don't do it, as you would be considered some what of a moron as without this investment you MAY or MAY not get what you're seeking.

Sorry to be so forthcoming or rude in some peoples eyes but this is the absolute truth.

Luke

@Lukums1

I think you're failing to under stand, there is no "ensuring" a mount. Pure RNG is, as a mathematical fact, not guaranteed. Do you know what would guarantee a mount? If it were for sale at a fixed price. Even if it were for $300, which is the amount you claim to be willing to pay, that is at least an actual dollar value. So what you're looking for isn't to gamble, it's just to pay an "exclusively" high price. Also I have no idea where you're even getting that $300 figure from to begin with. It sounds like you're picking a high number, ignoring math, and hoping that by remaining ignorant you'll somehow get the thing you want.

I understand you guys and the point of view now, in relation to why make content when I can create a silly little mount.

I get that and now understand.

Oh please, don't get me wrong my $300.00 was an estimate which I did state in my original post and this was concluded that if you spend $300.00 to obtain crates, the doubles and triples etc you get will grab you the currency to buy the mount.

Unlike some, we participated in testing the crown crates and it's to my and a few other players who took part that MATH states if you were to spend EXAMPLE $300.00 the doubles of the items you already have will contribute to currency to obtain the mount using this.

I do however understand why it's bad! BUT ... it will probably happen.

But doubles are also not guaranteed, is what I'm getting at. While the secondary gem market could guarantee you'll eventually get something, that is only true assuming they actually go through with letting you trade in potions and riding lessons and all other consumables for gems. I too tested it on PTS and found the system utterly revolting, specifically because there is no fixed price or guarantee of getting a specific item.

BuddyAces · October 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

@Lukums1 , no, you have not.

You know how I know you have not?

You didn't mention once the main issue, which pretty much EVERYBODY who is against the crates mentioned at least once: The direction a game takes after they introduce these crates is really, really bad. Every single game. Not one game that made this move, ESPECIALLY with a certain lady behind it, escaped this fate. Free to play, content scarcity, crates becoming main and then only source of income, complete ruin. There is no reason to think it will be different with ESO, especially since that same lady that killed so many games with this kind of scheme is working with ZOS now.

It is always like this. Always. We saw this happening way too many times.

We are not going to contribute to that because we care about the direction of the game. Because we are TES fans and we want the game to thrive.

The reason why you are seeing so many posts about gambling and money is because you crate supporters keep bringing it up as if those were the actual issues we have with the crates.

I'm saddened that you guys are going to support this, especially for something so futile like a shiny new mount. Maybe you are MMO hoppers so it doesn't matter if ESO goes down this route to you, because you are just going to migrate to the next game.

I for one don't think a shiny new mount is worth the health of the game.

Alright you make some what of a point.

But it is cosmetic right? The items being brought without crown crates aren't great.

Granted Aion MMO did this as well... however they added the BEST weapons to their crown system by 1/10000 chance.

Can I say... even if this happend (and I'm with you hopefully it won't) but would it be THAT bad that someone spent $10000 for EXAMPLE to obtain something they are after...?

Does this not get ZOS income to keep making content? I'm sorry maybe I'm not thinking in the same mind set you are.

But it doesn't matter if it is cosmetic
Look at you. You are ready to spend $300 in a cosmetic. That's the issue.

People like you spend so much on these, regardless of what is inside, as long as it is exclusive, that these boxes eventually become the main source of income for the company.

Why are they going to make content like DLCs that sell for $20 when they can just center development around the crates and make $300 instead? Or even $10000? That's how the shift on development focus happens. So yes, it would be that bad.

I believe you thought I was saying I fear ZOS is going to put p2w stuff in the boxes. That's not what I'm saying at all, although it is a possibility and it would be even worse if they did. But even if they don't, it doesn't matter, because the development shift will happen anyway.

Because the boxes are where the money is for them. Not on developing more content. Money makes more money. Are they investing the money they make with the boxes in content, that brings them less money, or in more exclusive stuff for the boxes, that made them more money? If they use the money made with the boxes to develop content instead of to make more things for the boxes, they will be the first in the MMO industry to do so.

I never post on these forums. I think my wife posts under this account because she can't get hers to work with the forums. This will be my first ever post here (minus a couple about bugs from way back when).

This is the scariest thing I've ever read because this is literally almost word for word what I just told my wife about these boxes earlier this evening. You are perhaps one of the single smartest people posting in this thread. Anyone that is disagreeing with you has either never played another MMO that has introduced these things or they just MMO hop around every so often not caring about the impact these idiotic things have on a game. There isn't one single game out there that has not gone downhill because of boxes.

Lysette · October 2016

.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The boxes wont kill the game. But it will gut it of any soul and otherwise amazing content that might have been possible. The boxes will take up more and more development time and resources. Before you know it the "content" we're given will be overly attached in some way to the Crates/Store. Theyll go back and overhaul older systems to monetize them more (and will tell everyone theyre doing it because they feel the system is no longer as useful and the players want it to be better). The changes will chase a lot of Veteran Players away. But the Whales will remain and new comers will think the Crates and the heavy monetization to be the norm so they wont complain or at the least will find reasons to look the other way.

The game will continue on. But as long as they have Developers focusing on the Crates. Dont expect the other aspects of the game to flourish.

I do not see the whales staying at all - they want to BUY and GET stuff immediately, not eventually somewhere in the future, if at all. If they cannot get it RIGHT NOW, it is pointless. Why would they want to gamble for a mere chance, they want it NOW and not get a bunch of stuff they do neither need nor want, like those consumables- this is not what a whale wants, this is not what a collector wants at all. Both groups are basically facing a gamble wall, which is walling them off from their enjoyment. Those of them, who are not clever enough to look through this scam scheme might stay, but the rest will just turn away from this scam in disgust and despise it and those, who foster this kind of business practice.

Lysette · October 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The boxes wont kill the game. But it will gut it of any soul and otherwise amazing content that might have been possible. The boxes will take up more and more development time and resources. Before you know it the "content" we're given will be overly attached in some way to the Crates/Store. Theyll go back and overhaul older systems to monetize them more (and will tell everyone theyre doing it because they feel the system is no longer as useful and the players want it to be better). The changes will chase a lot of Veteran Players away. But the Whales will remain and new comers will think the Crates and the heavy monetization to be the norm so they wont complain or at the least will find reasons to look the other way.

The game will continue on. But as long as they have Developers focusing on the Crates. Dont expect the other aspects of the game to flourish.

Well, the game will go free to play sooner than you would expect and then it is just a matter of time, until it is going to end - I give it at most 2 years. There is no longer a long-term, despite what they claim, this is focusing on things which can drain money out of naive players quickly, it is no longer an investment into the longevity of the game - this is a quick cash grab as long as they still can - this will definitely not benefit the game and will cause harm to those, who do not see the scam in it.

L2Pissue · October 2016

One Man
One Man is gonna be Happy regarding crown crates
its a One Man who gonna receive the item he wants in his first crown crate
we will hear alot about the One Man
we will want to be the One Man

because thats how it goes
if lottery guarantees winning, it will not be addictive

dont try to be the One Man,
The One Man will make a forum post showing off
while eating his 3rd Doritos and drinking his 4th Mountain Dew
thats the One Man
We do not want to be the One Man
we are good as we are.

Lavum · October 2016

TBH I am rather worried, I'm sure we have all seen a game where cosmetic "cash shop" items went from cosmetic to Pay To Win. This has been mentioned but it is worth repeating.

BigBragg · October 2016

Best thing that we can hope for is that they don't get the expected financial return from them, and end up a failed experiment in the ESO footnotes. Fortunately, that is in our hands.

Lysette · October 2016

Lavum wrote: »

TBH I am rather worried, I'm sure we have all seen a game where cosmetic "cash shop" items went from cosmetic to Pay To Win. This has been mentioned but it is worth repeating.

It is already pay to win, but in a different context - the changes they make to "balance" the game are made to make players switch to a new meta - and you can pretty much bet, that future "balance" changes will be so that a competitive player will have to switch to another race to stay competitive - and buy race change tokens for his characters - those are not in vain that expensive - so for them it is already pay to win, if they do not want to play through the same content over and over and over again every 3 months basically.

Lysette · October 2016

BigBragg wrote: »

Best thing that we can hope for is that they don't get the expected financial return from them, and end up a failed experiment in the ESO footnotes. Fortunately, that is in our hands.

Don't hope for that, there are enough people out there, who will never look through this scam scheme, even if they are told so and even if you explain it in depth to them - they are incapable of grasping it.

Lord_Eomer · October 2016

billp_ESO wrote: »

I have no problem with people spending money to get items.

I also wish the game had special items that could ONLY be gotten by completing some difficult task.

"WOW! You have the Uber Sword of Doom! You must have finished the XXX dungeon! Nice work!"

Yes, ESO have special items by completing difficult task like VMSA Weapons, Emperor Costume etc.

Lukums1 · October 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Lavum wrote: »

TBH I am rather worried, I'm sure we have all seen a game where cosmetic "cash shop" items went from cosmetic to Pay To Win. This has been mentioned but it is worth repeating.

It is already pay to win, but in a different context - the changes they make to "balance" the game are made to make players switch to a new meta - and you can pretty much bet, that future "balance" changes will be so that a competitive player will have to switch to another race to stay competitive - and buy race change tokens for his characters - those are not in vain that expensive - so for them it is already pay to win, if they do not want to play through the same content over and over and over again every 3 months basically.

Where you're not wrong... I suppose... you're right in a way...

There is nothing stopping you from leveling another character LOL I know painful and yes $25.00 would get you that day of your life back... I agree.

I don't think it will ever go p2w that's doom and gloom talk... all i've been saying is cosmetic items are cool... WoW has them... Aion has them... Flyff had them...

However the gamble is high, very high in fact. I think with the very little SOLID information we have moving forward I don't think it's wise to be like OH NO OH NO... just yet...

Lysette · October 2016

Lukums1 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lavum wrote: »

TBH I am rather worried, I'm sure we have all seen a game where cosmetic "cash shop" items went from cosmetic to Pay To Win. This has been mentioned but it is worth repeating.

It is already pay to win, but in a different context - the changes they make to "balance" the game are made to make players switch to a new meta - and you can pretty much bet, that future "balance" changes will be so that a competitive player will have to switch to another race to stay competitive - and buy race change tokens for his characters - those are not in vain that expensive - so for them it is already pay to win, if they do not want to play through the same content over and over and over again every 3 months basically.

Where you're not wrong... I suppose... you're right in a way...

There is nothing stopping you from leveling another character LOL I know painful and yes $25.00 would get you that day of your life back... I agree.

I don't think it will ever go p2w that's doom and gloom talk... all i've been saying is cosmetic items are cool... WoW has them... Aion has them... Flyff had them...

However the gamble is high, very high in fact. I think with the very little SOLID information we have moving forward I don't think it's wise to be like OH NO OH NO... just yet...

You are funny - this is not a new thing, it is used in many games to drain a whole lot of money out of naive players since a long time. And if you expect something different from something, what is specifically designed to fulfill this purpose, than you are naive as well. This is specifically designed to hide the actual price of something and is baiting people, who really want it, to try to get it, but the chances will be so low, that those will have to pay like 10+ times as much for the item, if they will get it at all - it is a well known scam scheme. And unfortunately it is like the hot plate and the child - you have to let the child get burnt, it will not believe it until it got it's fingers actually burnt by touching the plate.

geonsocal · October 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Show me a game that thrived on new content after this kind of scheme was added to it.
More importantly, show me a game where the lady specialized in B2P - F2P transition worked on that didn't end in ruins.

Again, what reason do we have to believe ESO will be different when it is following the same patterns - and hiring the same people - that the previous MMOs that ended in the gutter?

If you pay attention, content already started slowing down.
We got from "4 dlcs a year" to "not all dlcs will be big like Orsinium" and then to "not all updates will be dlcs". Speaking of Orsinium, it is turning one year next week, isn't it? And the plot line it initiated wasn't touched upon since then. We got no update on the Daedric war in a whole year of updates. I presume that's because ZOS isn't aiming at the long-term player, the player that will buy all DLCs to follow an overarching story. They are aiming at the nomads, who will buy some self-contained DLC, a bunch of Crown Crates and then leave to the next MMO.

Vvardenfell is my last hope. As I said in another thread about this subject, if Vvardenfell doesn't have any updates on the impending Daedric War I will assume the plot line was dropped.

great, so just finished a late dinner and read this - this is guaranteed to stick in my head for awhile...thanks for the nightmares @Abeille :'( ...

so, you seem to have a good understanding of the past, present and very gloomy future...

just looked up zenimax, saw they were around since '07 - but, only noticed the eso title for their online games - are there other mmo's they've supported? basically, has this scenario played out before on other titles with this company?

seriously, how big a team of developers can there be - 15, 20 (I have no idea)...how much of a difference can it make if a few, 3 or 4 are off making shiny mounts...

Edited: sorry, for tone- i actually really appreciate your insight...it just freaked me out a little...

ArgoCye · October 2016

Thing is, if people don't buy the Crates, then they won't make the Crates. So ultimately what many are saying is that it's not the Crates that will ruin ESO, but the people who buy them.