Why is alchemy so broken?

madddscientistb14_ESO · October 2016

Ive spent time to bet an expert in every craft. Alchemy is by far my favorite, but yet it seems Zos has it out for alchy's.

1. We cant break anything down for mats.
2. Alchy's are the only craft that doesn't have a hireling for mats daily.
3. Alchy Surveys offer 2! mats out of each of the 6 nodes. 2! Where woodworking for example offers 5-21 out of EACH of their survey nodes.
4. Alchy requires ALL of their reagents through all of their levels. The only thing that changes is the water. So you have to farm each and every one of the 20+ reagents you use to make pots and poisons.
5. Reagent nodes are random what hey offer, and you'll end up spending WAY too much to get that columbine that you just can't find enough of.

Whats the deal Zos? Everyone hits me up for pots, even with their mats, I'm always running out of something!

KimberlyannKitsuragi · October 2016

I can agree with this I'm trying to get master crafter as well but it's really difficult so I can see where you're coming from

THEDKEXPERIENCE · October 2016

The "shadowy supplier" acts as your alchemy hireling if you choose the first option every day.

jrgray93 · October 2016

I regularly have to buy up all of the Corn Flower and Lady's Smock in all of the guild stores because I have a drinking problem and can't find them myself

Wreuntzylla · October 2016

jrgray93 wrote: »

I regularly have to buy up all of the Corn Flower and Lady's Smock in all of the guild stores because I have a drinking problem and can't find them myself

At the current prices for pots, you must make hundreds of thousands of gold per week... Or play very little. It takes 4 mats for 3 min of pot love.

I have been unable to understand why in a game they made for people to have fun, they have let remain a crafting function that is so much like work... I wish they would either nerf pots or double the resource node yield. Find a different gold sink. Like player housing...

Zouni · October 2016

Huh? It amazes me how people find problems were none exist.

jrgray93 · October 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

I regularly have to buy up all of the Corn Flower and Lady's Smock in all of the guild stores because I have a drinking problem and can't find them myself

At the current prices for pots, you must make hundreds of thousands of gold per week... Or play very little. It takes 4 mats for 3 min of pot love.

I have been unable to understand why in a game they made for people to have fun, they have let remain a crafting function that is so much like work... I wish they would either nerf pots or double the resource node yield. Find a different gold sink. Like player housing...

I make a lot of gold. I play a lot. I also easily go through 1000 potions a week.

AlnilamE · October 2016

madddscientistb14_ESO wrote: »

Ive spent time to bet an expert in every craft. Alchemy is by far my favorite, but yet it seems Zos has it out for alchy's.

1. We cant break anything down for mats.
2. Alchy's are the only craft that doesn't have a hireling for mats daily.
3. Alchy Surveys offer 2! mats out of each of the 6 nodes. 2! Where woodworking for example offers 5-21 out of EACH of their survey nodes.
4. Alchy requires ALL of their reagents through all of their levels. The only thing that changes is the water. So you have to farm each and every one of the 20+ reagents you use to make pots and poisons.
5. Reagent nodes are random what hey offer, and you'll end up spending WAY too much to get that columbine that you just can't find enough of.

Whats the deal Zos? Everyone hits me up for pots, even with their mats, I'm always running out of something!

1. Well, you are boiling it into a potion/poison. Same applies to cooking. Have you ever tried to un-mash potatoes?
2. And the Alchemy writs (which are super easy to do) will give you mats even if you don't get a survey.
3. If you proc plentiful harvest, it's 4. Have they reduced the number of nodes in Alchemy writs like they have reduced them for the other writs?
4. You may want to focus a bit on the ingredients you need for your potions/poisons.
5. This complaint goes against point 4. But in any case, I have found that the spawns are not random. Each node spawns a certain list of plants. Like Blessed Thistle is always at the same node as Wormwood. I've never had to farm specifically for something, so I've not paid that much attention, but you can go out and research and then focus only on the nodes that will give you Columbine.
6. Tamriel is swimming in mats right now. Just go out and find a spot that spawns what you need.

STEVIL · October 2016

madddscientistb14_ESO wrote: »

Ive spent time to bet an expert in every craft. Alchemy is by far my favorite, but yet it seems Zos has it out for alchy's.

1. We cant break anything down for mats.
2. Alchy's are the only craft that doesn't have a hireling for mats daily.
3. Alchy Surveys offer 2! mats out of each of the 6 nodes. 2! Where woodworking for example offers 5-21 out of EACH of their survey nodes.
4. Alchy requires ALL of their reagents through all of their levels. The only thing that changes is the water. So you have to farm each and every one of the 20+ reagents you use to make pots and poisons.
5. Reagent nodes are random what hey offer, and you'll end up spending WAY too much to get that columbine that you just can't find enough of.

Whats the deal Zos? Everyone hits me up for pots, even with their mats, I'm always running out of something!

1 - but nodes are everywhere.
2 . see 1 and there is the Db suppliers which for 1 sp is a pretty good hireling.
3 - Since 1T i see 4 or more per node in surveys. Also four potions take at most 3+1 reag+solv but how many ruby ash are needed for a staff - 120? (tier-10) So 6 nodes to make a staff and three nodes provide for 48 potions?
4 - Alch reagents never lose efficacy and wheras wood and such you gather at level 10 is useless for you by level 30 and you are complaining about that? What? Every character i have from levels 6-capper+ gathers reagents in the field usable for any level of crafting so my lvl 30 can supply my capper+ with cp150 potion fodder at the same ratio of 1-1. if you ask wood and cloth guys if they would be upset if cp160 gear took the same mats as cp 10 gear and didn't require any more mats used, the answer would not be YES.
5 - Columbine is rarer and in demand so its pricey to buy. i use it rarely myself and sell most of it. However, lets compare that to say the rarity of the gold tempers and even the purple... yeah see if you make cp160 gear its WHITE and you need those rare quality items to get them up to snuff. The rarity and utility of columbine itself isn't that bad when compared to the rarity of say gold quality tokens which you need eight to make one item? (Alchemy is spared the whole quality thing.)

if i had to guess it would be that you are making a great argument for how alchemy is good... just in a BIZARRO sort of way..

of the craftings, alchemy is also my fave and IMO by far the most well implemented in terms of utility and potency and diversity. it can even stand-in for enchantments.
Second is provisioning.
Then the rest. (primarily because you can do just fine now with drop-sets or a mix of drop-sets and a few crafted, whereas you really dont see many who just say "heck, i think using this white drop potion of health is better or as good as my crafteds".

THEDKEXPERIENCE · October 2016

Potion rationing 101

- Use the dropped potions for overland PVE in 99.999% of situations. You don't need to be wasting Columbine on Wisp Mothers and Ice Atronauchs.
- If you do end game trials you'll suck down 50 to 100 a day easily of top end potions. Cyrodiil PVP is about half of that but still mighty expensive. Being an end game "leet" player is expensive AF.
- If you do what is above you're going to need a side hustle. Sell PVP equipment to PVE players and vice versa. Sell motifs under market value. Sell whatever you can except for reagents.
- Buy in bulk.

I typically spend 50 to 100k a month on reagents even though I pick flowers constantly. It's the price you pay. This is why you rarely see end game potions available for purchase at the guild vendors. People usually gasp at 4K for 10 end game potions when in reality a price like this is basically cost. Charging 1000g for each end game potion is reasonable (on XBox) but no one will pay it because 1000g for a 45 second item is lunacy.

accina · October 2016

Alchemy is the 2nd easiest skill line in the game to level up. (provisioning being the easiest one)
Once you have gathered all the needed ingredients it'll take only 40 mins to level it from 0 to 50.
Compared to enchanting or the rest of the crafts, I can't see much of a problem here.

Voxicity · October 2016

accina wrote: »

Alchemy is the 2nd easiest skill line in the game to level up. (provisioning being the easiest one)
Once you have gathered all the needed ingredients it'll take only 40 mins to level it from 0 to 50.
Compared to enchanting or the rest of the crafts, I can't see much of a problem here.

I don't think it's the leveling of the skill that is of concern, rather what happens when you reach 50 compared to other crafting skill lines

WhitePawPrints · October 2016

I'm master Alchemist... never had a problem. Had to grind a few node locations for a while Coldharbour was easiest area, but I don't have to research traits or grind for recipes, and it's nothing like Enchanting that takes forever! Get the Champion perk that gives a chance to double nodes, and voila, not so difficult to get a stock anymore; especially from the alchemy maps.

STEVIL · October 2016

KaiVox22 wrote: »

accina wrote: »

Alchemy is the 2nd easiest skill line in the game to level up. (provisioning being the easiest one)
Once you have gathered all the needed ingredients it'll take only 40 mins to level it from 0 to 50.
Compared to enchanting or the rest of the crafts, I can't see much of a problem here.

I don't think it's the leveling of the skill that is of concern, rather what happens when you reach 50 compared to other crafting skill lines

But are you suggesting that the amount of time effort and expense needed to get to 50 isn't relevant to what you can do with it at 50?

Not that i think its weak at 50 by any stretch.
Nobody i ever saw was taking on maelstrom with drop potions and foods, but many go into it successfully with some dropped equipment sets equipped if not all. matter of fact, since you cannot craft jewelry, its pretty much required to include drop sets in your maelstrom run.

Now, using rare columbine pots against scrubs is wasteful, but you rarely need that.

accina · October 2016

KaiVox22 wrote: »

accina wrote: »

Alchemy is the 2nd easiest skill line in the game to level up. (provisioning being the easiest one)
Once you have gathered all the needed ingredients it'll take only 40 mins to level it from 0 to 50.
Compared to enchanting or the rest of the crafts, I can't see much of a problem here.

I don't think it's the leveling of the skill that is of concern, rather what happens when you reach 50 compared to other crafting skill lines

What can you expect from such an easy levelling? After all, you will get the medicinal use passive.
Alchemy is the only craft that will give you a game changing passive.
Or did I miss something?

WhitePawPrints · October 2016

accina wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

accina wrote: »

Alchemy is the 2nd easiest skill line in the game to level up. (provisioning being the easiest one)
Once you have gathered all the needed ingredients it'll take only 40 mins to level it from 0 to 50.
Compared to enchanting or the rest of the crafts, I can't see much of a problem here.

I don't think it's the leveling of the skill that is of concern, rather what happens when you reach 50 compared to other crafting skill lines

What can you expect from such an easy levelling? After all, you will get the medicinal use passive.
Alchemy is the only craft that will give you a game changing passive.
Or did I miss something?

Provisioning has a similar passive... though Medicinal Use is probably a bit better.

accina · October 2016

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

accina wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

accina wrote: »

Alchemy is the 2nd easiest skill line in the game to level up. (provisioning being the easiest one)
Once you have gathered all the needed ingredients it'll take only 40 mins to level it from 0 to 50.
Compared to enchanting or the rest of the crafts, I can't see much of a problem here.

I don't think it's the leveling of the skill that is of concern, rather what happens when you reach 50 compared to other crafting skill lines

What can you expect from such an easy levelling? After all, you will get the medicinal use passive.
Alchemy is the only craft that will give you a game changing passive.
Or did I miss something?

Provisioning has a similar passive... though Medicinal Use is probably a bit better.

If provisioning passive would increase the strenght of food/drinks, it would be more similiar.
Increasing the duration is kind a useless IMO, never wasted a skill point on that one.

Code2501 · October 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

3 - Since 1T i see 4 or more per node in surveys. Also four potions take at most 3+1 reag+solv but how many ruby ash are needed for a staff - 120? (tier-10) So 6 nodes to make a staff and three nodes provide for 48 potions?

Confirmed, the surveys are rarer now, but they give 4 per plant times 6 plants = 24 mats.
That said its a consumable craft, a hard crafts are forever, hence I wouldn't mind if they made the plants drop more, in classic ES games you could normally get 2 or 3 mats per plant.

On the topic of usefulness of the skill, as a consumable craft, that can be used for both potions and poisons now, I think its fine where it is. There are plenty of reasons to buy or make more potions or poisons to enhance your game-play currently. maybe just add some new ingredients with new effects that are zone unique for future DLC.

Enslaved · October 2016

Would be ok to be able to combine found potions, like 1 stam + 1 health give you 1 with both effects. That would make alchemy great again. And we wouldn't need no walls lol.

Dubhliam · October 2016

madddscientistb14_ESO wrote: »

3. Alchy Surveys offer 2! mats out of each of the 6 nodes. 2! Where woodworking for example offers 5-21 out of EACH of their survey nodes.

Every survey gives double the amount of materials that you would normally find in the world.

Alchemy surveys are no exception.

For example, you normally get 3-4 materials when harvesting Ore.
This is doubled on survey Ores, making it 6-8 Ores per node.
The Lover CP passive gives you 10% for doubling those amounts.

.            normal(x2)      survey(x2) 
flowers      1     (2)       4-6   (8-12)
ore          3-4   (6-8)     6-8   (12-16)

So you see, your numbers are false.

By the way, Alchemy has one of the most useful passives out of all crafting passives - Medicinal use.
No other craft passive influences combat like that one does.

So yeah, I'm sorry if you don't get a hireling for Alchemy

EDIT: wow, I had no idea surveys now give 4 times more mats!
I didn't have to go harvest the surveys so far because I'm swimming in alchemy materials since I do alchemy writs with all my chars.
This is soooo unfair to all other crafts that only get double materials from surveys.

SickDuck · October 2016

Provisioning
- produces slow consumables (once every 1-2 hours)
- requires 2-4 ingredients per craft
- hireling brings loads of stuff twice a day just by login
- ingredients are all around & can be bought

Alchemy
- produces fast consumables (once every 45 seconds)
- requires 3-4 ingredients per craft
- dlc content can give a few items once a day if you don't forget to pick up at npc
- ingredients need to be harvested mostly
- ingredients are not sold

There's your logic...

KimberlyannKitsuragi · October 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The "shadowy supplier" acts as your alchemy hireling if you choose the first option every day.

However my understanding is they give you a potion. Can't deconstruct a potion for regents

STEVIL · October 2016

Meri20098 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The "shadowy supplier" acts as your alchemy hireling if you choose the first option every day.

However my understanding is they give you a potion. Can't deconstruct a potion for regents

My understanding is they give you potions about 1 day ouy of three and alchemy reagents fats and waters in a pack of 6-3-3 the rest of the time.

This understanding of mine is based off personalky having 4 chars running it daily for many months now.

What is yours based off of?

EDIT
Todays run for five Db suppliers yielded (each took of course a couple minutes tops)

6 different reagents totaling 36 pieces
2 different fats totaling 12 pieces
5 potions.

Ankael07 · October 2016

The only issue with alchemy is that there is no resistance against poisons.Specifically the resource draining ones.

UltimaJoe777 · October 2016

As of One Tamriel Alchemy Surveys produce more than 2 per node without Plentiful Harvest. 3-4 if I recall correctly.

Butterfly Wings though...

Oh and let's not forget the most useless skill line passive in the game: Snakeblood!