IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Easy mode aye? Well that just shows how much you don't know what you're talking about.

Xvorg wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

1. The Path has got to be the WORST ground placed DoT in the game. Elemental Blockade is one of the strongest (behind Endless Hail and Liquid Lightning) beats both and is a must have in ANY magicka build, vMA staff or not.
2. The increase in magicka is a passive that can be activated by slotting any other Siphoning Ability. That point is entirely invalid. As a mageblade DPS, if you're not using Crippling Grasp and Siphoning Attacks you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that Funnel Health is cheaper and does more damage you're also wrong. Funnel Health does have its uses, but mostly in content where you need self healing - vMA or PvP. For everything else, as a DPS you're meant to be putting out as much damage as possible at the sake of survivability. You only need so much survivability to make it through content (healers and tanks are there for you, oh yeah and shields are also there), but you never have enough damage.
3. So what? This is not about whether the Destruction Staff skill line can replace the Siphoning one is it? Cripple is arguably the best magicka DoT in the game. Agony on the other hand isn't worth slotting over Destructive Clench. Just look at the numbers. We are talking about DPS here aren't we? Agony lasts 7 seconds (if you chose that morph) and it doesn't have initial damage, so its a considerable DPS loss when compared to Destructive Clench, taking into account that both skills provide a CC (which is really not worth slotting either, it really needs to get a buff).
4. This is just stupid. Elemental Drain isn't there for the debuff, as the tank is already providing that debuff. The healer is using Elemental Drain to help with sustain. The skill proc's off Elemental blockade, your light attacks, Force Pulse and Shooting Star, so its a must have in any group with magicka DPS if you want to sustain for longer than 5 minutes. Its complimentary to Siphoning Attacks, not a replacement by any means.
5. You should have at least 1 person running Pulsar for the group, because 10% less total HP in one hit > a hit with Sap Essence. But yes I agree that Impulse is utter ***.
6. In terms of pure DPS or in terms of utility? In terms of DPS, Elemental Rage is probably the strongest magicka ultimate in the game. In terms of utility? Most certainly not. Still I'd use Elemental Rage over Soul Tether (which is only good in PvP and literally nothing else) for DPS.
7. Again this is not about replacing NB abilities with Destruction Staff abilities. Destruction Staff abilities are complimentary to class skills. The only must have destruction staff skill on a magicka DPS is Elemental Blockade. The best ability for a magicka spammable aside from Puncturing Sweeps and Whip is Force Pulse without a single doubt though.

Edit: Didn't see that Gil and Hedna already replied to this...

Did u see the storm version of the fire blockade? it doesnt get the damage buffs from the passives, but those 2 extra seconds on mobs is HUGE

And the increase in target area is huge too. What do you mean? Does storm blockade not get the penetration buff? I though they fixed it!

pewbis wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Unstable's Explosion hits 3 times, unlike the tooltip suggests. This means the final explosion is much stronger, and actually beats Blockade if a player is good enough at managing it. Notice that it's listed twice in my recap, once as a DoT, and once as a direct damage. The explosion part did an extra 1257 DPS on top of the already massive 7464 the base did.

Really? That's an interesting point... why does the explosion hit 3 times? If this is true, I might have to slot unstable. How come nobody else knows about this? I have only ever heard that Blockade is better.

Thanks for te responses though.

Also, a question I posted on a different forum post and never got a response to, though it doesn't really relate with this one: How good is Moondancer's 5% damage bonus? I've heard that the damage boost is bugged, and doesn't work in some places, and that even when it works it gives less DPS than using a different 5 piece...

I have ALSO heard that it/infalliable is the optimal endgame set for magicka users.

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Lol at sap essence. 4k mag to do a few k dmg aoe vs whirlwind that costs like 600 stam and does 4x the damage.

Or you could cast hurricane once and its like 20 saps in a row.

We are comparing destro staf skills to magicka NB. No point in bringin the almighty stamina to the discussion, we all know it is easy mode for no brainers

Easy mode aye? Well that just shows how much you don't know what you're talking about.

Xvorg wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Force pulse instantly beats Funnel Health point for point of damage if you are a Dark Elf, and comes just shy of >50 damage if you're a High Elf in unbuffed situations when attacking non elemental weak mob types. Once you fight a mob type that is weak to Ice, Shock, or Fire, Force Pulse wins for raw damage, and overall damage due to the ability to proc weaknesses.

On top of this, even for non Dark/High Elves, if Engulfing Flames is applied to a mob, Force Pulse will instantly win as well.

Force Pulse has a bonus to proc Burning, Concussed, and Chill, on top of being able to proc Explosion on Fire weak enemies, Disintegration on Lightning weak enemies, and Deep Freeze on Frost weak enemies. Force Pulse also scales better with crit chance and modifiers, as there are 3 hits per cast (which gets more accurate results, the higher # of hits, the more likely you will achieve "true" results when dealing with RNG) vs 1 from Funnel.


Force Pulse also has the advantage of proccing Elemental Drain, an extremely potent resource management tool in groups, which refunds Magicka each time you deal, Fire, Ice, or Shock damage. Force pulse can no longer proc it three times (it used to be able to), but can still proc it twice if you crit on at least one damage source, and non crit on another. With this added, Force Pulse actually becomes cheaper in the long haul than Funnel.

Furthermore, Force Pulse is MUCH easier to weave and doesn't lock up as much as Funnel Health. Funnel/Swallow has an extremely long winded animation filled with "fluff" that is required to block cast to cancel, but cannot be done over long fights. Force Pulse is a simple and easy animation, and is much harder to muck up.

Hope this helps!

For a dunmer/altmer mageblade, Force pulse is a good option. The combo with elemental drain is worth BUT, imho, NBs magicka skills per se are far superior than destro staff ones. The only reason why you need destro staff is for weaving:

1. Path of darkness beats WoE dmg unless you have a MS staff, but their secondary effects (major exp, or the heal of refresh path) are far superior, and the passives they activate are worth a look (shadow barrier)
2. Strife is cheaper and does similar dmg to force pulse, but it has a heal and granst you 2 extra ulti each 4 secs. Not to mention the increase in magicka
3. Agony and cripple give you more DoT than destro reach and their morphs have great secondary effects
4. Though interesting, WTE is not better than mark target. Do you regain magicka through elemental attacks with elemental drain? You can do better with siph attacks and basic attacks
5. Impulse < sap essence
6. the Ulti everyone talks about is not better than VoB or Soul Tether and both cost less ulti.
7. Finally, with impale you have a ranged execute

1. The Path has got to be the WORST ground placed DoT in the game. Elemental Blockade is one of the strongest (behind Endless Hail and Liquid Lightning) beats both and is a must have in ANY magicka build, vMA staff or not.
2. The increase in magicka is a passive that can be activated by slotting any other Siphoning Ability. That point is entirely invalid. As a mageblade DPS, if you're not using Crippling Grasp and Siphoning Attacks you're doing it wrong. If you're saying that Funnel Health is cheaper and does more damage you're also wrong. Funnel Health does have its uses, but mostly in content where you need self healing - vMA or PvP. For everything else, as a DPS you're meant to be putting out as much damage as possible at the sake of survivability. You only need so much survivability to make it through content (healers and tanks are there for you, oh yeah and shields are also there), but you never have enough damage.
3. So what? This is not about whether the Destruction Staff skill line can replace the Siphoning one is it? Cripple is arguably the best magicka DoT in the game. Agony on the other hand isn't worth slotting over Destructive Clench. Just look at the numbers. We are talking about DPS here aren't we? Agony lasts 7 seconds (if you chose that morph) and it doesn't have initial damage, so its a considerable DPS loss when compared to Destructive Clench, taking into account that both skills provide a CC (which is really not worth slotting either, it really needs to get a buff).
4. This is just stupid. Elemental Drain isn't there for the debuff, as the tank is already providing that debuff. The healer is using Elemental Drain to help with sustain. The skill proc's off Elemental blockade, your light attacks, Force Pulse and Shooting Star, so its a must have in any group with magicka DPS if you want to sustain for longer than 5 minutes. Its complimentary to Siphoning Attacks, not a replacement by any means.
5. You should have at least 1 person running Pulsar for the group, because 10% less total HP in one hit > a hit with Sap Essence. But yes I agree that Impulse is utter ***.
6. In terms of pure DPS or in terms of utility? In terms of DPS, Elemental Rage is probably the strongest magicka ultimate in the game. In terms of utility? Most certainly not. Still I'd use Elemental Rage over Soul Tether (which is only good in PvP and literally nothing else) for DPS.
7. Again this is not about replacing NB abilities with Destruction Staff abilities. Destruction Staff abilities are complimentary to class skills. The only must have destruction staff skill on a magicka DPS is Elemental Blockade. The best ability for a magicka spammable aside from Puncturing Sweeps and Whip is Force Pulse without a single doubt though.

Edit: Didn't see that Gil and Hedna already replied to this...