PvPers please stop trying to get all the new armour sets nerfed

DeadlyRecluse · October 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Me thinks these guys dont realize Cyrodill came after launch. This is a pve game 1st and pvp 2nd type mmo.

Now, theres always games like overwatch if you want pvp to be core.

Apparently the beta PvP was a fever dream.

apostate9 · October 2016

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Why oh why oh why???

Every time there is something that makes PvE builds fun and a bit silly that make me laugh, do PvPers shout "cancer-build" nerf it now?

Can you just please stop it and let the majority of the people who play this game have some fun?

I don't care for your "oh you have no skill" bs...when I see something pop up from the ground or a giant hand close around some NPCs it makes me laugh...i play this game because it is just that...a game...it is meant to be fun and relaxing...it is not meant to be work

sit back, relax, play the game and let it bring a smile to your face

I agree, but it will never change. Until a company designs PvP only gear and skills (only useable in PvP areas) this will always happen. PvE sets are based around killing mobs with millions of HP. You can't possibly hope to balance that when killing enemies with like 30k.

With respect, this premise is wrong on so many levels. It is a simple proposition. What you and your brethren are failing to understand, is that there is no point in balancing a game for PVE. It is unnecessary. Why? Because the robots do not get mad. Customers do. The robots cannot unsubscribe, and may never stop playing. Because they aren't real. The game is not programmed for their enjoyment, but rather ours.

You talk about monsters with millions of hit points. We can take them away. The monsters won't get mad, I promise. Balance the game for customer vs customer, then do what they always do to balance PVE: add some hit points, or take them away. It's that simple. It is an update query against the database. They can simply balance these sets until they are acceptable for use on other customers, then take away some hit points from that boss until you are instantly face rolling him again. For the 1000th time. Your power relative to his will feel just the same. You would never even know.

Solus · October 2016

Nyx2 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Yes the new armor sets proc, but guess what they are fun! I'm ok with a proc set killing me the game is geared casual anyways. Stop trying to make game that is clearly not built or balanced to be competitive in pvp competitive. It's meant to be an AvAvA objective based game not a stinking contest of skill. These nerfs will just gut more fun out of a game that was already bland

So what you're saying is: Your interpretation of fun > anyone elses and those that like functional games

You admit they're broken yet you're perfectly fine with dismissing any sort of logic because you don't care about it / you're the one abusing it. Again, "fun" doesn't hold up as argumentation. Basically you said nothing at all with all those lines. How do you even translate "easy" to "fun"? We're not taking them away, we want proper balancing. If fun means to cheat then there are singleplayer games for that. Seriously.

Your assuming "an awful alot"

Fact is:

1. I haven't stepped foot in Cyrodiil since One Tam came out because magicka builds of all sorts except Templar tanks specs are absolute rubbish. Why would i want to play my Magic Sorc in a meta where im inhenrently disadvantaged to the point of playing with 1 hand tied behind my back compared to our stamina Overlords?

2. Magicka Proc sets, Like Valkyn Skoria, Illambris, etc have very small percentage chances(8%, 10%, etc and cooldowns associated with them) why do they need to be nerfed? Magicka doesn't have any 50% chances like Stam has with Tremorscale or 20% chances like Velidreth or even 100% chances to proc when you use a poison(Hello Widowmaker) The only unbalanced proc sets in the game are all stamina based...all the magicka based ones have low % and have narrow requirements to work. Blanket nerfing all the proc sets just because 2-3 stam sets are grossly OP is like killing a Fly with a bomb.

3. I said an awful lot with those lines....the nerfs this game has endured to classes and sets the last two years have been nothing short of atrocious and sucking the fun right out of the game. Templar's used to have this really cool skill called Blind Flashes and combined with being a Vampire if gave you "a chance" of killing the folks trying to Zerg you. Streak not having an AOE cap and building ultimate with dynamic ult regen allowed an outnumbered Sorc to spam Negates against the zerglings trying to kill him 10v1. I still had to be more skilled to win in those cases and even with that it was 50/50 but you already had a chance. Nerfing anything just favors Zergs. Magic Det is the best example it's utterly useless now because it won't do enough damage you have to hit like 10 people with it before it's even remotely useful then the AOE cap halves it after 6 targets making it completely useless. Just keep nerfing the game will soon be 100% full on Zerg. The only stray will be potato on 1 guy with 20.

Point is there had to be some balance here only 3 of these sets are too good and adjusting them is fine but blanket nerfing all of them is throwing the baby out with the bath water, might as well swat that fly with a sledgehammer

What I do is called reading. Again you acknowledge the issue and how handicapped you are but then I go back to your first post and it all doesn't matter because it's fun? There is no logic behind that and there is no other way to read it. Broken sets are not fun. If I were to talk about nerfing mediocre sets it would destroy the whole purpose of balance. Not everything can be perfectly balanced and it never will but with the current meta it's just going out of hand more than ever. And ZOS is still blind, not fixing it like they at least try to when making OP changes.

You on the other hand don't just assume, almost the entire post is just another strawman. Not once did I mention magicka or stamina for that matter. The issues are with the viper, velidreth, widowmaker, tremorscale, selene and how poison, proc works with sets like these combined.

You just list completely random things and attribute them to us like whoever opposes you is responsible for it. I'm not in favor of zergs but then that's not really something you can balance easily because more people will always mean more power. Zergs take advantage of this too making PvP even more one-sided. But that's besides the point.

Pibbles wrote: »

I tend to ignore the keboard warriors on here, the real players are in game just doing what they do, not foaming at the mouth with anger on a forum. Give it a month and it will all have blown over.

The "keboard warriors" are what keep this game from completely falling apart in its mechanics. You clearly have no idea, nor are you invested in how the game works to realize how broken it is. It's easy to dismiss people as whiners when you don't have any interest in the actual game in which case you should just stay out of this thread all together: "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."

Something most people in this forum should learn before spouting their opinionated bs.

Solus wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

How about we just remove all sets from Cyrodiil? Fight with plain armor?

There are counters to sets, if people cant figure it out then its on them. I like the challenge.

Very convincing coming from the guy that uses those sets and desperately wants to keep them the way they are.

So what if I do? If you cant do 18.5k to my stamblade before i destroy you then its on you. Im using what tools i have at my disposal, if my build is OP then find one to counter it. Trust me, i could make it alot worse than running what im running. You guys make it seem like my build is the only build in the history of builds that has kick to it. And pretend that there arent other builds that could defeat me easily. Its easy to cry about it, its hard to actually find your own in game response to my build, which is why people do the former, not the latter.

Oh, please tell me all about the new sets that disable incoming proc and throw poison back at their user. The "counter" is either you playing like an idiot, zergs or using these cancer builds yourself. You'd make any excuse to continue having this broken advantage over others to just continuously stomp people until they become bitter PvE players. You need your special toys to stay this way and then have the nerve to tell people "git good" as if your one button wonder involves tremendous amounts of skill.

Git Good.

If you cannot do 18.5k damage, and sustain against one proc set that happens every 4 seconds, then thats on you. Dont cry nerf because you cant do enough damage to counter Vigor/health pot and my attacks. The counter is run sharpened weapons and take me down as fast as possible. The longer you fight someone that has proc armor sets, the less likely you will survive. I have relatively low health for PVP. If you run all impen, and 5/5/2 sets with bonuses of your own you shouldnt have a problem taking me down 1v1 if you play well enough.

That is the truth.

Really the only time i have an advantage, is when im steath-ey and i take you by surprise. which is how i PVP. Should you cry nerf on shadow disguise and crouching now? No. Its just a way to play. Its not like someone logs on and just gets these sets handed to them, no they work for them. Like I did, my pay off for my hard work getting those sets and making them legendary is i get to completely wreck people. Why should my stuff get nerfed to your benefit just because you have a hard time handling a player that plays the game this way? Should my Killer's Blade be nerfed because it does 30-40k when it crits?

That makes no sense, they wont be uselessly nerfed, try harder to counter this.

If in the event set procs were to be nerfed, they wouldnt be taken out, your best bet would be they would lower the damage done to players by "x" percentage, increase proc time, or lower percentage of successful procs. And even then people will cry about it. These sets were tested and they determined they were good as is.

They will keep them.

Elara_Northwind · October 2016

JR_Returns wrote: »

I think that the best answer to the problem would be to separate the sets and skill for PvP and PvE.

That way the PvE player would be happy because their skill weren't being constantly nerfed.

PvP player would also see benefits. With the skill and sets only effecting PvP it would be easier to balance the game, as PvE would no longer be a factor that had to be considered. That would make balancing the PvP game quicker and easier.

Trying to get balance in the game by making big changes every 3 months is never going to work.

I agree 100% with jr. Perhaps, it would be a good idea to but a debuff on certain skills/sets ect. somehow, if possible, in a pvp setting. That way, people in pve can remain how they are, and only in pvp certain things would be nerfed because it is ruining the fun for those people who do not pvp very often, to have everything they worked so hard for to be destroyed because somebody got killed by somebody in pvp and could not accept it

Elara_Northwind · October 2016

Posted Twice

Solus · October 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hsc-RKCp2A

He explains proc sets well, and the overall issue.

@Sypher

Nidro · October 2016

who cares for pvp even?

90% of ppl just go there to lvl up vigor or some other ability lol

@carebear

Solus · October 2016

Nidro wrote: »

who cares for pvp even?

90% of ppl just go there to lvl up vigor or some other ability lol

@carebear

A fair amount of people do, i wouldnt say all, but enough do.

apostate9 · October 2016

Nidro wrote: »

who cares for pvp even?

90% of ppl just go there to lvl up vigor or some other ability lol

@carebear

Wrong.

Nyx2 · October 2016

Solus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hsc-RKCp2A

He explains proc sets well, and the overall issue.

@Sypher

Good job shooting yourself in the foot. All this video does is support my arguments of how ridiculous those sets really are. The difference being that he uses those sets to show ZOS how cancerous they are while you use them because you need an extra easy mode. I meant because you're so skilled. Right?

Just stop embarrassing yourself with stuff like "git good" when you need to rely on op proc to do everything for you.

Dreyloch · October 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Make monster sets proc once every 5 minutes in PvP only and they'll be no problems.

I asume your joking, because with that kind of timer, it's pointless to wear the set at all then. One minute in pvp is a lifetime for a proc. 5 Minutes? Forget about it.

Thelon · October 2016

Nyx2 wrote: »

Good job shooting yourself in the foot. All this video does is support my arguments of how ridiculous those sets really are. The difference being that he uses those sets to show ZOS how cancerous they are while you use them because you need an extra easy mode. I meant because you're so skilled. Right?

@ZOS_PeterT
Please come censor the use of the word 'cancerous' immediately. It has ruined my immersions and jostled my already soft feelings

Jaronking · October 2016

Solus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hsc-RKCp2A

He explains proc sets well, and the overall issue.

@Sypher

Lmao in the video he even said these sets are broken and ruins PVP come on dude.He said only reason he is running these sets is because others are running it and he is at a disadvantage not using them.Also in the video he even stated he can go without the sets the sets just make the killing people easier because how over powered they are.I could have sworn even called the build and sets cancerous.

CromulentForumID · October 2016

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

They should have a different rule set for PvP and PvE.

They do - it's called 'Battle Spirit'. That's why we get 50% weaker shields, healing, damage and 5k more HP. I don't know why they are so reluctant in changing some abilities/sets to work differently on this buff so it doesn't affect PVE.

Because that's harder to do. They'll have to write 2 sets of codes with different conditions and they aren't willing to do that. Battle spirit is 1 blanket set of code that they write one time and adapts to every skill, set and ability. If they were to do the game the right way, every skill, set and ability or at least all the ones that are potentially op will need 2 sets of code.

I don't think zos has the money to pay the coders to make 2 sets of code for 20-30 different abilities, sets and skills. This is why when they nerf a skill, set or ability, they nerf it for EVERYTHING. Cause they only have 1 set of code.

The fact that they did not start creating the game with the power definitions separate continues to boggle my mind. Years and years of MMO history out there should have shown them that separate abilities in PVP and PVE would save them time and aggravation in the long run.

raglau · October 2016

CromulentForumID wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

They should have a different rule set for PvP and PvE.

They do - it's called 'Battle Spirit'. That's why we get 50% weaker shields, healing, damage and 5k more HP. I don't know why they are so reluctant in changing some abilities/sets to work differently on this buff so it doesn't affect PVE.

Because that's harder to do. They'll have to write 2 sets of codes with different conditions and they aren't willing to do that. Battle spirit is 1 blanket set of code that they write one time and adapts to every skill, set and ability. If they were to do the game the right way, every skill, set and ability or at least all the ones that are potentially op will need 2 sets of code.

I don't think zos has the money to pay the coders to make 2 sets of code for 20-30 different abilities, sets and skills. This is why when they nerf a skill, set or ability, they nerf it for EVERYTHING. Cause they only have 1 set of code.

The fact that they did not start creating the game with the power definitions separate continues to boggle my mind. Years and years of MMO history out there should have shown them that separate abilities in PVP and PVE would save them time and aggravation in the long run.

And that's the crux of it, a poor architectural decision out of which flow poor designs. Neither PvE or PvP player is 'right' on the matter of the proc sets, but each group has a markedly different set of requirements, and the game cannot cater to those equally satisfactorily because the architecture does not permit it.

I don't feel particularly confident we'll ever see that change, because ZOS can't even land a patch without causing an 8 hour outage, let alone revisit core game architecture. All they'll do is flip-flop between half-baked attempts to meet one set of reqs at the expense of the other, and continue diluting the game for both camps in the process.

Comrey · October 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

How about we just remove all sets from Cyrodiil? Fight with plain armor?

To be honest I would like this.

Ghost-Shot · October 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether

Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.

Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.

Me thinks these guys dont realize Cyrodill came after launch. This is a pve game 1st and pvp 2nd type mmo.

Now, theres always games like overwatch if you want pvp to be core.

Um, Cyrodiil was there in beta, it was actually a huge piece of the beta testing and was in fact the only end game at launch since the first 2 Craglorn trials weren't added till patch 1.1. Overwatch is an fps/moba crossover, while it is a FANTASTIC game, it can not be viewed as a viable alternative to MMO style pvp.

Birdovic · October 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether

Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.

Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.

Me thinks these guys dont realize Cyrodill came after launch. This is a pve game 1st and pvp 2nd type mmo.

Now, theres always games like overwatch if you want pvp to be core.

Guess it was my imagination, when I visited Cyrodiil, lol.

Ghost-Shot · October 2016

Birdovic wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether

Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.

Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.

Me thinks these guys dont realize Cyrodill came after launch. This is a pve game 1st and pvp 2nd type mmo.

Now, theres always games like overwatch if you want pvp to be core.

Guess it was my imagination, when I visited Cyrodiil, lol.

He has a beta forum tag, must have bought the account.

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2016

I think the best solution is to have sets that have a damage activation on conditions don't activate if you have the battle spirit buff. This can just be written into the description of each set, vipers, red mtn, velidriths, tremor and so on. Makes it simple, PVE and PVP are happy, and nobody is nerfed who doesn't want a nerfing.

Silver_Strider · October 2016

Sets are just a part of the problem with PvP. Magic vs Stamina imbalances, racial imbalances, CP and Battle Spirit are all just as problematic to PvP balance as sets.

No CP campaigns are much more balanced than others due to not being able to rely on that crutch that is CP that gives so much free advantage that it's sickening but even there racial and set bonuses are problematic as, although not as powerful without CP, still gives advantages that a good player can take advantage off to overcome an equally skilled but less optimal race.

Battle spirit is also just an awful bandaid fix that does nothing positive. Honestly, after the nerf to duration on shields, they should just remove the 50% nerf to shields from Battle spirit at this point as a 10k shield that leaves after 6 seconds isn't that bad anymore. It would help magic builds a little bit after so many nerfs, both direct and indirect.

I'd honestly disable Racials and CP in PvP across the board and see what would happen from there. People would complain but at least PvP would be much more balanced.

Solus · October 2016

Nyx2 wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hsc-RKCp2A

He explains proc sets well, and the overall issue.

@Sypher

Good job shooting yourself in the foot. All this video does is support my arguments of how ridiculous those sets really are. The difference being that he uses those sets to show ZOS how cancerous they are while you use them because you need an extra easy mode. I meant because you're so skilled. Right?

Just stop embarrassing yourself with stuff like "git good" when you need to rely on op proc to do everything for you.

ha you're assuming that because i use ONE proc set that its an "easy mode"? get over yourself. You do need to git good. all you do is complain and QQ. While the rest of us actually figure out an in game response to these things and then publish them for you to follow and copy pasta.

Solus · October 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hsc-RKCp2A

He explains proc sets well, and the overall issue.

@Sypher

Lmao in the video he even said these sets are broken and ruins PVP come on dude.He said only reason he is running these sets is because others are running it and he is at a disadvantage not using them.Also in the video he even stated he can go without the sets the sets just make the killing people easier because how over powered they are.I could have sworn even called the build and sets cancerous.

He also states
"why should i stop using something because of some weird moral standard that people call these sets OP? I shouldnt, and i wont. Im not breaking any rules by using these builds, im using what is out there and what is possible."

He uses 'over the top' builds like his one punch video to show that stacking these sets is broken, not the implementation of one of these sets. Key term is stacking. I dont stack proc sets, which is the issue, not me using one and all of you QQ-ing about it.

He also goes on to say that most people have a hard time finding an in game response to these builds (paraphrasing) but they are out there.

TheBonesXXX · October 2016

Why do PvErs feel they're entitled to put a casual deathgrip on every game that comes out and pigeonhole the PvP community when we ask for balance?

Riddle me that batman, if this game had more build variation and PvErs actually asked for Battle Spirit to be removed and have gear made with PVP damage reduction on it, then the market would be separate from PvP and PvE.

Perhaps you should aim your criticism on the design team for not separating the market. You wont though, because PvPers make PvEers pockets pretty damn fat, you need us, we don't need you.

Karivaa · October 2016

When I played WOW, we had special pvp gear we could only get from playing pvp. If u went into PVP wearing PVE gear, u got instakilled. Also, the PVP gear wasn't good for PVE.

DurzoBlint13 · October 2016

Nidro wrote: »

who cares for pvp even?

90% of ppl just go there to lvl up vigor or some other ability lol

@carebear

just because you do not PvP does not mean no one does.
They have pretty much handed PvEers Vigor on a silver platter now and still they complain. Most PvPers only complain about exploits, cheats and people abusing things- like proc sets that reduce the skill needed to PvP. It is pretty obvious that the devs gave PvP very little thought when they came up with some of these sets. They need to either separate PvP and PvE completely, or consider both sides of the coin before they flip the game on its head

Solus · October 2016

Karivaa wrote: »

When I played WOW, we had special pvp gear we could only get from playing pvp. If u went into PVP wearing PVE gear, u got instakilled. Also, the PVP gear wasn't good for PVE.

Which would be interesting if they went this route. They tried, with the gear that is in the PVP vendors. The only thing i would agree with, to those that are being super salty about me using viper as one of my 5 pieces is the stacking of proc sets, THAT shouldnt be a thing. Realistically, that 7.8k damage that is done, (w/ viper only) attributes to only 1/4-1/5 of the damage i actually put out. So its really minimal.

out51d3r · October 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Sets are just a part of the problem with PvP. Magic vs Stamina imbalances, racial imbalances, CP and Battle Spirit are all just as problematic to PvP balance as sets.

The problem with these proc sets isn't really the balance issues they cause(though they exacerbate the pre-existing stamina advantage over magicka). The problem is they take alot of the skill out of the pvp side of the game. Balance needs to be addressed, but proc sets really are a much larger problem than balance is right now.

if the problem was balance, the solution would be to just add magicka equivalents to these sets. This would briefly make magicka players feel better, sure. Quite quickly though they would realize what many stam pvpers already freely admit to. These sets need to be nerfed.

Drdeath20 · October 2016

out51d3r wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Sets are just a part of the problem with PvP. Magic vs Stamina imbalances, racial imbalances, CP and Battle Spirit are all just as problematic to PvP balance as sets.

The problem with these proc sets isn't really the balance issues they cause(though they exacerbate the pre-existing stamina advantage over magicka). The problem is they take alot of the skill out of the pvp side of the game. Balance needs to be addressed, but proc sets really are a much larger problem than balance is right now.

if the problem was balance, the solution would be to just add magicka equivalents to these sets. This would briefly make magicka players feel better, sure. Quite quickly though they would realize what many stam pvpers already freely admit to. These sets need to be nerfed.

PvP needs major love. Very stale