PvPers please stop trying to get all the new armour sets nerfed
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Nyx2✭✭✭✭I just fail to understand why PvE needs to suffer because PvP'ers get annoyed they cant kill each other
It's just an attention seeking thing, in ALL such games there is a small - but very vocal - minority of *players* (both PvE and PvP) who, rather than adapt to the challenges the game throws at them, seek to cry foul and get everything nerfed down to a uniform, watery, dull blamanche.
The people you see in this thread being like this are in no way representative of the majority of PvP players however, and you can take that from me as I do play both PvP and PvE, it's just a hardcore of people who tend to give that community a bad name. Most PvP players are like me, and are just going to do what we do and see how it pans out. It's just a game, it's really not that important, much as I do enjoy it.
Denying it =/= argumentation
And you sure don't represent anyone that is remotely interested in the game. You're being childish and constantly distract from the subject because the only thing you have to say is "Uh, everything is fine despite the insane procs every 5 / 10 secs" and "They're just whiners". Which both means absolutely nothing.
I have already said there may be a point in there, it's just the way certain quarters put that point across is not constructive and their solutions are not workable. I've already said it's an architectural flaw and compared it with how similar games deal with the PvE/PvP contention.
I don't deny there's some tension between the two sets of requirements, I've said as much many times. I simply don't want people to think that aggressive, anti-community, personalities such as yours are reflective of PvP players as a whole.
As for me not being remotely interested in the game, seeing as I have played from early beta, have it on XB1 and PC, buy my sub 6 months at a time and am the community member who analysed the code and fixed the recent EU server bind issue and made sure I followed that through with ZOS every day until it was fixed...Well, I'd say you are on shaky ground there, to put it mildly.
I know something else that's shaky. If there is an issue present then don't downplay it or dismiss people as "whiners" and "keyboard warriors". With idiotic statements like these you don't have to be surprised that I get tired of every second post consisting of people that don't even understand any of these sets yet still demand their egoistical statements to be valued. There is nothing that would even damage PvE, they just stand in the way because it's popular to bash on PvP.
You constantly take the side of oblivious PvE players that don't understand that procs meant for dungeon bosses aren't sustainable in PvP. You were just talking about how it's all a matter of "adapting" to challenge and now backpaddle to acknowledgement?Anti_Virus wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yes the new armor sets proc, but guess what they are fun! I'm ok with a proc set killing me the game is geared casual anyways. Stop trying to make game that is clearly not built or balanced to be competitive in pvp competitive. It's meant to be an AvAvA objective based game not a stinking contest of skill. These nerfs will just gut more fun out of a game that was already bland
So what you're saying is: Your interpretation of fun > anyone elses and those that like functional games
You admit they're broken yet you're perfectly fine with dismissing any sort of logic because you don't care about it / you're the one abusing it. Again, "fun" doesn't hold up as argumentation. Basically you said nothing at all with all those lines. How do you even translate "easy" to "fun"? We're not taking them away, we want proper balancing. If fun means to cheat then there are singleplayer games for that. Seriously.
Ever heard of a MOBA? It's a PVP based game mode, you should try it out and leave this game if you don't enjoy it.
Two completely different things. Just because you don't like PvP (which is part of every good MMO) doesn't mean I have to ignore it as well. I know I enjoy all the game has to offer so you can keep your snarky advice of leaving to yourself.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can there ever truly be balance though? Arguably in mathematical terms, each class would need the same amount of abilities that do the exact same thing but masquerading as "variety" only through their animation.
I.e. All classes have a physical resistance buff ability, everyone using dual wield has the same abilities available to them but all light attacks from all weapons should do the same flat rate of whatever. Also only traitless white non-set bonus'ed armour.
Now, take that as sarcasm if you will, but i actuallyflawless4812 wrote: »Instead of bashing pvpers, we should be bashing the developers of the game for not having two different stats when it comes to pvp nd pve, would help alot with balancing since alot of nerfs help pvp nd ruin pve nd vice versa
Agreed. I have wondered why SOME abilities have different outputs based on PvP or PvE usage, one of the healing ones, either vigor or rejuvenating barrier do something like 30k health regen over 30 seconds in PvE and waaaaaaay less in PvE, or vice versa.
I actually do enjoy PvP, particularly werewolf huntjng, so there's that.
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Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭flawless4812 wrote: »Instead of bashing pvpers, we should be bashing the developers of the game for not having two different stats when it comes to pvp nd pve, would help alot with balancing since alot of nerfs help pvp nd ruin pve nd vice versa
If that would be the case, ppl would be mad for having their precious sets brought down to uselessness whenever they enter Cyrodiil. Also, why would anyone use PvE set with PvE traits in PvP zone? And impenetrable is useless in PvE so no matter how you look at it, you need to swap all or almost all gear anyway?
If you ask me, there are so much new sets that can bring unique flavor to the PvP right now. But never forget, not all builds are great for 1vX, and that is what most ppl here would like.
I tried running vampire set with devouring swarm, immovable brute and shuffle and cyrodiil ward. It was fun to see ppl on alessia bridge die and be like "wtf". Is it a 1v1 build? No. 1vX? Hell no. It is a fun situational build that is great for tight, zergVzerg battles. Did I die? Hell yeah, but enemies died more
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raglau✭✭✭✭✭You constantly take the side of oblivious PvE players that don't understand that procs meant for dungeon bosses aren't sustainable in PvP. You were just talking about how it's all a matter of "adapting" to challenge and now backpaddle to acknowledgement?
Well, perish the very idea that I am capable of keeping two thoughts in my head at once.
Of course I can acknowledge something and yet still rise to the challenge it presents and adapt. That's how you and I live our lives, surely? We control a miniscule amount of what happens in the real world, a fraction of a percentage, and yet, we still adapt by the day to deliver whatever our chosen strategy for our lives is, despite many obstacles and negative forces that at times seem overwhelming and often grossly 'unfair'. Of course we do, we would not be very happy or successful people otherwise.
That's why I get flumoxed by the vat load of whining from all quarters when it comes to games. I really wonder how some people dress themselves in the mornings if a potential issue with an ESO proc set throws them so off the straight and narrow. It's really quite remarkable.
As for taking the side of PvE players, I think you should read my post. I quite clearly call out the fact there are whiners in both PvE and PvP communities, and the fact the original PvE game had a nice difficulty level which was nerfed to faceroll by PvE whiners. I consider weak gamers a whole community issue, not something specific to PvP or PvE.
I honestly believe you are simply spoiling for a fight, perhaps you had better get back in game and have one, rather then keyboard warrioring at Internet randoms.Edited by raglau on October 18, 2016 1:45PM0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SlayerTheDragon wrote: »They need to introduce Major Proc and Minor Proc. The concept has worked well to consolidate similar problems before.
Probably the best idea ive seen all week for proc sets.PS4 NA DC0 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Can there ever truly be balance though? Arguably in mathematical terms, each class would need the same amount of abilities that do the exact same thing but masquerading as "variety" only through their animation.
That is essentially where these things get driven to. You pretty much end up with skins for cookie cutter chars. Given enough time it's happened to pretty much every PvP game out there in the pursuit of 'balance'. Because real balance means no advantage from your player char at all. We even see this in life, with handicaps, technology and money limits in motorsport (my own hobby), even kid's sports day with no winners or losers. This drive for fairness, equality and balance sucks the life out of everything it touches.
Some people were just not ever told by their parents that life *is* unfair.Edited by raglau on October 18, 2016 2:02PM0 -
Lucious90✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yes the new armor sets proc, but guess what they are fun! I'm ok with a proc set killing me the game is geared casual anyways. Stop trying to make game that is clearly not built or balanced to be competitive in pvp competitive. It's meant to be an AvAvA objective based game not a stinking contest of skill. These nerfs will just gut more fun out of a game that was already bland
So what you're saying is: Your interpretation of fun > anyone elses and those that like functional games
You admit they're broken yet you're perfectly fine with dismissing any sort of logic because you don't care about it / you're the one abusing it. Again, "fun" doesn't hold up as argumentation. Basically you said nothing at all with all those lines. How do you even translate "easy" to "fun"? We're not taking them away, we want proper balancing. If fun means to cheat then there are singleplayer games for that. Seriously.
Ever heard of a MOBA? It's a PVP based game mode, you should try it out and leave this game if you don't enjoy it.
Ever herd of Single player? Its a pve based game mode, comes in all sorts of flavors AND even TES games! There ya go!Xbox/NA
Naturegoat - Stam Warden
Healgoat- Mag temp
Staticgoat- Stam Sorc1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »SlayerTheDragon wrote: »They need to introduce Major Proc and Minor Proc. The concept has worked well to consolidate similar problems before.
Probably the best idea ive seen all week for proc sets.
True it's an interesting idea, but it's stupid that we've come to the point where we need Major and Minor Proc buffs...2 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭You constantly take the side of oblivious PvE players that don't understand that procs meant for dungeon bosses aren't sustainable in PvP. You were just talking about how it's all a matter of "adapting" to challenge and now backpaddle to acknowledgement?
Well, perish the very idea that I am capable of keeping two thoughts in my head at once.
Of course I can acknowledge something and yet still rise to the challenge it presents and adapt. That's how you and I live our lives, surely? We control a miniscule amount of what happens in the real world, a fraction of a percentage, and yet, we still adapt by the day to deliver whatever our chosen strategy for our lives is, despite many obstacles and negative forces that at times seem overwhelming and often grossly 'unfair'. Of course we do, we would not be very happy or successful people otherwise.
That's why I get flumoxed by the vat load of whining from all quarters when it comes to games. I really wonder how some people dress themselves in the mornings if a potential issue with an ESO proc set throws them so off the straight and narrow. It's really quite remarkable.
As for taking the side of PvE players, I think you should read my post. I quite clearly call out the fact there are whiners in both PvE and PvP communities, and the fact the original PvE game had a nice difficulty level which was nerfed to faceroll by PvE whiners. I consider weak gamers a whole community issue, not something specific to PvP or PvE.
I honestly believe you are simply spoiling for a fight, perhaps you had better get back in game and have one, rather then keyboard warrioring at Internet randoms.
Attacking both sides just looks like an attempt of sounding more reasonable and believable. The only criticism and mocking I saw from you was towards PvP players. Yes, people cry about everything from having to lvl up to crown store items and one class being better than another. But when blatant issues like this in power are present you don't do anyone a favor by telling them that the game functions perfectly fine or you should just deal with it. What kinda solution is that on your part to just accept it this way? Things only change if you open your mouth and do something about it. Turning "variety" into weak and broken players isn't how you achieve a varied gaming experience.0 -
Lucious90✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »SlayerTheDragon wrote: »They need to introduce Major Proc and Minor Proc. The concept has worked well to consolidate similar problems before.
Probably the best idea ive seen all week for proc sets.
True it's an interesting idea, but it's stupid that we've come to the point where we need Major and Minor Proc buffs...
My reservation with the Major Minor set up is that they can still be chained, they would have to add a GCD still. I would say still get rid of set procs in pvp onlyXbox/NA
Naturegoat - Stam Warden
Healgoat- Mag temp
Staticgoat- Stam Sorc0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »SlayerTheDragon wrote: »They need to introduce Major Proc and Minor Proc. The concept has worked well to consolidate similar problems before.
Probably the best idea ive seen all week for proc sets.
True it's an interesting idea, but it's stupid that we've come to the point where we need Major and Minor Proc buffs...
My reservation with the Major Minor set up is that they can still be chained, they would have to add a GCD still. I would say still get rid of set procs in pvp only
Procs are fine, in theory. For example, how many people complained they were getting one-shot by Skoria? What if proc sets were affected by Battle Spirit, reducing their damage by 50% and increasing the cooldown by 50%?1 -
Lucious90✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »SlayerTheDragon wrote: »They need to introduce Major Proc and Minor Proc. The concept has worked well to consolidate similar problems before.
Probably the best idea ive seen all week for proc sets.
True it's an interesting idea, but it's stupid that we've come to the point where we need Major and Minor Proc buffs...
My reservation with the Major Minor set up is that they can still be chained, they would have to add a GCD still. I would say still get rid of set procs in pvp only
Procs are fine, in theory. For example, how many people complained they were getting one-shot by Skoria? What if proc sets were affected by Battle Spirit, reducing their damage by 50% and increasing the cooldown by 50%?
I could be down for that as a compromise, ( Im not a dirty extermist who must have it my way
)If they can set it up in a way that can pull pvp towards the skill spectrum I am perfectly ok Xbox/NA
Naturegoat - Stam Warden
Healgoat- Mag temp
Staticgoat- Stam Sorc0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »SlayerTheDragon wrote: »They need to introduce Major Proc and Minor Proc. The concept has worked well to consolidate similar problems before.
Probably the best idea ive seen all week for proc sets.
True it's an interesting idea, but it's stupid that we've come to the point where we need Major and Minor Proc buffs...
My reservation with the Major Minor set up is that they can still be chained, they would have to add a GCD still. I would say still get rid of set procs in pvp only
Procs are fine, in theory. For example, how many people complained they were getting one-shot by Skoria? What if proc sets were affected by Battle Spirit, reducing their damage by 50% and increasing the cooldown by 50%?
Well the proc sets are already affected by the battle spirit damage wise.
And even so, battle spirit changes are just bad band aid fixes and usually ruin a lot of stuff.
I mean, look at reasonable proc sets like Valkyn Skoria or Winterborn: With such a battle spirit debuff, they would become utterly useless which would be a sad thing as those sets (and a few others) are hardly overpowered or/and unbalanced.
I think the better solution would be to introduce a global cooldown on procs, something like 4s or so (to be discussed obviously). It would limit the usefulness of stacking multiple proc sets severely.Susano'o
Zerg Squad0 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭Things only change if you open your mouth and do something about it. Turning "variety" into weak and broken players isn't how you achieve a varied gaming experience.
That is entirely true, everyone should feel free to comment on things they feel strongly about. And really, if it were something I felt strongly about I would indeed change it, or do my utmost to do so. I can't disagree with you there. There are constructive ways to do this however, and loads of people have been constructive here, but there were a few people (and I can't even remember who) that repeatedly made ridiculous claims and demands, and so I just took the opportunity to 'proc' them for the hell of it! One of the joys of forums being how easy it is to trigger very highly strung people.
I personally, and I have always said this, don't particularly like the proc sets, even for PvE. I just think it's all a bit gimmicky, a bit like cute mounts and pets etc, not sure they have a place in ESO lore. But then I am a died in the wool TES bore so not really representative of a lot of the people who play ESO alone. It's very clear the PvE RP types like them, and it then comes down to, well, who is right? And of course, both sets of people bought the game and pay their subs etc., so one is not more right than the other.
The most sensible thing anyone said is the guy a few posts back who said PvE and PvP players ought not to be bashing each other, this is once again an oversight from ZOS because there is a weakness in the game architecture.0 -
Vipstaakki✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether
Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.
Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.0 -
subtlezeroub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Vipstaakki wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether
Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.
Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.
Me thinks these guys dont realize Cyrodill came after launch. This is a pve game 1st and pvp 2nd type mmo.
Now, theres always games like overwatch if you want pvp to be core.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vipstaakki wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether
Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.
Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.
But this doesn't even play like a TES game, this is a online multiplayer game. There's is no reason to even explore in this game. I can get to Max level just by grinding mobs. pretty much all the end game content is group oriented. All the best gear you get from doing multiplayer content. That means the game should be balanced around multiplayer, no one wants certain builds to be way better than others because it forces you to run those builds to stay viable which limits build diversity. They are pretty much just using the Elder Scrolls name to get customers. So end game PvP and PvE is what this game should be balanced around0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Vipstaakki wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether
Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.
Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.
Yet their marketing campaign 3 years ago revolved heavily around the alliance war and the massive siege battles and whatever. ESO's PvP was designed as end game content. Though that changed later on when they ruined the server performance and realized that they couldn't fix it.
Stop spreading misinformation just because you don't like PvP.
Susano'o
Zerg Squad7 -
Lucious90✭✭✭Vipstaakki wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »Maybe they should just make Cyrodiil PvE only and get rid of PvP altogether
Your right. Get rid of what this game was designed for. lol. silly carebear.
Excuse me but ESO was not designed for PvP. TES games have always been games about the story and exploration.
Yet their marketing campaign 3 years ago revolved heavily around the alliance war and the massive siege battles and whatever. ESO's PvP was designed as end game content. Though that changed later on when they ruined the server performance and realized that they couldn't fix it.
Stop spreading misinformation just because you don't like PvP.
This.... Something people need to realize, generally yes TES games where/are single player games based on the story and your investment in the story and how you can shape the world, ESO offers one key difference, the Online word in its title. It offers some of what TES has, but with it being an MMO sacrifices have to be made to make a quality game. This game was marketed as a RvRvR game yet that was abysmal at best, with some slight improvements, pvp is a important aspect within any MMO worth its salt. TES =/= ESOXbox/NA
Naturegoat - Stam Warden
Healgoat- Mag temp
Staticgoat- Stam Sorc1 -
herpnderpidusSoul Shrivenjust make all these proc sets less powerful, they dont have to be crazy less powerful. but they are kinda dumb, like they are too meta, that being said, alot of these can be countered by keeping your distance. i dont think you need to crush their proc chances, just make their damage lower on players, could even put that in the tool tip, and make the other bonuses of the sets not as good, so if you have nothing but proc sets, you have weaknesses0
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Wycks✭✭✭✭subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »Me thinks these guys dont realize Cyrodill came after launch. This is a pve game 1st and pvp 2nd type mmo.
Now, theres always games like overwatch if you want pvp to be core.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The founder of ESO (Matt F.) was responsible for the PVP expansion in DAOC called Darkness Falls, which was amazing. ESO PvP was part of the design since day one and an evolution of many years of experaince with DAOC.
The problem with ESO starts with the letter W.
W introduces features into PvP that make little sense, undergo zero testing, and have no long term vision or strategy. Ultimately ESO has an amazing foundation being squandered by incompetent decisions. DOAC PvP become MORE popular over time and eventually reached a peak, much like WOW. ESO on the other hand has seen a steady decline in PvP since initial release.
Edited by Wycks on October 18, 2016 7:30PMThe numbers thing is always going to be there, but it’s more down to player skill and there are ways through ability choice to configure a group to be stronger vs. large groups of people. - BRAIN WHEELER - 2012 - LOL5 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Go play skyrim to PvE"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."2 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭*ALL 5-piece SET BONUS HAVE BEEN DISABLED IN CYRODIL*
A message from the future, where getting gap-close-proc'd to death is something we tell our grandchildren about.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If it wasn't for the heavily marketed PvP, there wouldn't have been so much interested from hardcore players because nobody cares for yet another theme park MMO, no matter if it has an Elder Scrolls skin.
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Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭What is the point of this thread aside from stirring up angst? There are 2 threads on the Alliance war forums about proc builds.
Put your tinfoil hats and pitchforks away.DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault0 -
robwolf666✭✭✭✭✭
✭stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »Why oh why oh why???
Every time there is something that makes PvE builds fun and a bit silly that make me laugh, do PvPers shout "cancer-build" nerf it now?
Can you just please stop it and let the majority of the people who play this game have some fun?
I don't care for your "oh you have no skill" bs...when I see something pop up from the ground or a giant hand close around some NPCs it makes me laugh...i play this game because it is just that...a game...it is meant to be fun and relaxing...it is not meant to be work
sit back, relax, play the game and let it bring a smile to your face
[titled edited for baiting]
Yeah...and a PvP-free version of Cyrodiil would be nice too so we can do the effing quests without some high level ass-hat (or more likely ass-HATS since they seem to feel the need to go around in groups) from another Alliance sitting on the area stopping you.0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This thread shows the difference between the people who ESO was originally marketed to and the people for which ESO has changed into what it currently is.
It's a story that started out really nice and has turned into something quite sad.8 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭robwolf666 wrote: »stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »Why oh why oh why???
Every time there is something that makes PvE builds fun and a bit silly that make me laugh, do PvPers shout "cancer-build" nerf it now?
Can you just please stop it and let the majority of the people who play this game have some fun?
I don't care for your "oh you have no skill" bs...when I see something pop up from the ground or a giant hand close around some NPCs it makes me laugh...i play this game because it is just that...a game...it is meant to be fun and relaxing...it is not meant to be work
sit back, relax, play the game and let it bring a smile to your face
[titled edited for baiting]
Yeah...and a PvP-free version of Cyrodiil would be nice too so we can do the effing quests without some high level ass-hat (or more likely ass-HATS since they seem to feel the need to go around in groups) from another Alliance sitting on the area stopping you.
Yeah the audacity of a player killing you in a pvp zone...DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault4 -
Eirella✭✭✭✭✭I don't hate you, but if your AI controlled monsters could wear these sets you'd know what we're talking about.
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Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »This thread shows the difference between the people who ESO was originally marketed to and the people for which ESO has changed into what it currently is.
It's a story that started out really nice and has turned into something quite sad.
Truth.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||3