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Blame the progress politic instead of metabuilds
Ragnaroek93
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Hello everyone,
I see a lot complaining about balance and metabuilds (or lovely called "[SNIP]"
). Many people consider proc builds as "[SNIP]", others consider heavy armor as "[SNIP]" and I already see it coming that you will be considered as "[SNIP]" as soon as you don't fight naked with your fists as weapons. In the end people hate on the balance (at the moment proc sets are the most hated stuff in the game) while ignoring the real issue. The real issue is, that ZOS releases new stuff with every update. Since we don't have an increase in the level cap (and to be honest here, I would be really pissed if they increase the level cap BEFORE reworking the rng loot stuff), ZOS creates sets which are more powerful than the sets we had before. Simply to make people playing their content. On top of that we don't have any kind of caps or softcaps anymore. The consequence of this is, that the meta will become more and more extreme with every update.
I don't like proc sets but I also don't see them being worse than other setups. Everyone who does, please show me how you kill a 60k magicka shield based build or strong heavy armor builds with lingering health pots or Malubeth without using any proc sets. If you want to be able to kill something in this meta you kinda need some extreme builds right now.
Actually I don't know how the meta will change with this update and I don't know how to balance this stuff. Who can actually balance a game there they release 50 new sets and rework another ton of sets in one single update? Nobody can. This "PvE progress dream" is a nightmare for PvP balance and it was already clear that this will be a mess. I don't like statements like nerf this class or this ability, simply because the game is so complex right now. I believe that magicka builds are much stronger at the moment than people are saying right now. For example the destro ultimate will be very, very strong in group play. In duels magicka builds can also be very strong right now (I've fought against a magicka nb which were very strong, nobody can tell me here that the class is dead). The two things, which are heavily in favour of stamina builds are cost increase poisons (because they don't increase the cost of blocking or dodgerolling) and lingering health pots (because magicka builds are more shield based most of the time). Both should be nerfed in my opinion... strongly nerfed.
My best idea are actually softcaps. I don't like softcaps and I don't think that you need them for balance, but they make it a lot easier to balance the game. Making proc sets scale with your damage, reintroduce softcaps, change heavy armor to more incoming healing and block cost reduction instead of sustain and dmg passives and nerf lingering health pots and cost increase poisons. Feel free to share more ideas if you want.
Greetings
By the way: Is there any word that is used more often than "[SNIP]" right now?
Edited by ZOS_PeterT on October 18, 2016 1:26PM I see a lot complaining about balance and metabuilds (or lovely called "[SNIP]"
). Many people consider proc builds as "[SNIP]", others consider heavy armor as "[SNIP]" and I already see it coming that you will be considered as "[SNIP]" as soon as you don't fight naked with your fists as weapons. In the end people hate on the balance (at the moment proc sets are the most hated stuff in the game) while ignoring the real issue. The real issue is, that ZOS releases new stuff with every update. Since we don't have an increase in the level cap (and to be honest here, I would be really pissed if they increase the level cap BEFORE reworking the rng loot stuff), ZOS creates sets which are more powerful than the sets we had before. Simply to make people playing their content. On top of that we don't have any kind of caps or softcaps anymore. The consequence of this is, that the meta will become more and more extreme with every update.I don't like proc sets but I also don't see them being worse than other setups. Everyone who does, please show me how you kill a 60k magicka shield based build or strong heavy armor builds with lingering health pots or Malubeth without using any proc sets. If you want to be able to kill something in this meta you kinda need some extreme builds right now.
Actually I don't know how the meta will change with this update and I don't know how to balance this stuff. Who can actually balance a game there they release 50 new sets and rework another ton of sets in one single update? Nobody can. This "PvE progress dream" is a nightmare for PvP balance and it was already clear that this will be a mess. I don't like statements like nerf this class or this ability, simply because the game is so complex right now. I believe that magicka builds are much stronger at the moment than people are saying right now. For example the destro ultimate will be very, very strong in group play. In duels magicka builds can also be very strong right now (I've fought against a magicka nb which were very strong, nobody can tell me here that the class is dead). The two things, which are heavily in favour of stamina builds are cost increase poisons (because they don't increase the cost of blocking or dodgerolling) and lingering health pots (because magicka builds are more shield based most of the time). Both should be nerfed in my opinion... strongly nerfed.
My best idea are actually softcaps. I don't like softcaps and I don't think that you need them for balance, but they make it a lot easier to balance the game. Making proc sets scale with your damage, reintroduce softcaps, change heavy armor to more incoming healing and block cost reduction instead of sustain and dmg passives and nerf lingering health pots and cost increase poisons. Feel free to share more ideas if you want.
Greetings
By the way: Is there any word that is used more often than "[SNIP]" right now?
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
3
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Laggus✭✭✭✭In answer to question at the bottom of your post.
Alongside "[SNIP]" and "Meta" and "wtf", "Wroble" is also quite often mentioned.
EDIT: Often in the same sentence.Edited by ZOS_PeterT on October 18, 2016 1:25PM6 -
Perpetuation✭✭✭In answer to question at the bottom of your post.
Alongside "[SNIP]" and "Meta" and "wtf", "Wroble" is also quite often mentioned.
EDIT: Often in the same sentence.
I was hovering over the "give awesome" button but then saw that you're laggus, the AD ganker that Xv1s people to death with your [SNIP]meta gank build. Why is that even a thing, like seriously, wtf Wrobel.Edited by ZOS_PeterT on October 18, 2016 1:25PM4 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I was going to replay to another thread to say this same kind of thing.. The other thread was a PVE-er complaining that he didn't want to see nerfs becasue of PVP.. Well, its the PVE'ers continuous want of progression through new sets that broke PVP.. but then again, I think many PVP'ers also like to see a bit of progression too, so it wouldn't have really been fair of me to start throwing the blame around like that.
Seen it in so many games though - I honestly think its simple lack of planning from the Dev's.. I think they are often surprised at how quickly some people get through their release PVE content - and so quickly have to bolt something on to keep those (often influential) players happy - and then are forever trying to play catchup with those who grind through stuff too fast. The result can be a rushed and ill thought-out power-creep.
I've never understood the idea of 'endgame'. Why would people want to rush through the main part of a game that has progression (ie levelling up to max level) to get to the end of that as fast as possible to then demand more progression at 'end-game' ? idk.. I remember when end-game was, well, the end.. ie you couldn't progress further.Edited by ZOS_PeterT on October 18, 2016 1:26PMMinalan owes me a beer.
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Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
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Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
ZOS_PeterT✭✭✭We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site11 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
Okay then.7 -
Astanphaeus✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
Next we won't be able to say cheese. This is getting ridiculous.10 -
kuro-dono✭✭✭✭people use these all sort of words to badmouth agendas. zergs, cheese, Can*** builds. Meta build propably the one least bad mouthing.
so if they dont draw line somewhere, we sure as heck have soon ppl going very ugly with their badmouthing.
Its because of this protective virtual wall that we are being so nasty towards each other.
My father recommended this kind of solution to my sisters when they were arguing in bad way that: slot daggers into your hand and fight, then whoever wins that, is the winner of the argument, lol, they quieted down forever after that.Edited by kuro-dono on October 18, 2016 2:04PM0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't have a problem with the people running proc damage sets, the sets are in the game, but lets not pretend there's any skill involved when your armor does your damage for you.2 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Astanphaeus wrote: »ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
Next we won't be able to say cheese. This is getting ridiculous.
...I think it's pretty clear there is a difference between a food made from milk and a cell growth disease which killed around 13-15% of humans. It's pretty clear they are not talking about star constellations.3 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
The thought police strike!
Don't even think what you shouldn't think now, boys and girls. It might hurt someone's feelings!5 -
Lol, are these forums moderated by lib art majors in LA hiding in their safe spaces? There are a few people on these forums that regularly troll, harass, badmouth and bully folks from other factions or with differing opinions and that is fine. But say one of the words that makes ZOS_PeterT even a tiny bit uncomfortable (and I am guessing that is a lot of words) and he is telling his mom. This PC nonsense is doing harm to our forum community in the micro and our country in the macro.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Wrynn EP Sorc
Wraithe EP Templar
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Chaddow EP Nightblade
Bellamorte DC Nightblade
Bella Scuda AD Templar8 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Look at all the teenagers getting all riled up over not being able to remind everyone about all the loved ones they've lost every time they want to bad mouth a build/set.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points10 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
The thought police strike!
Don't even think what you shouldn't think now, boys and girls. It might hurt someone's feelings!jamesfaine_ESO wrote: »Lol, are these forums moderated by lib art majors in LA hiding in their safe spaces? There are a few people on these forums that regularly troll, harass, badmouth and bully folks from other factions or with differing opinions and that is fine. But say one of the words that makes ZOS_PeterT even a tiny bit uncomfortable (and I am guessing that is a lot of words) and he is telling his mom. This PC nonsense is doing harm to our forum community in the micro and our country in the macro.
You both realize that you're on a moderated forum, with rules for acceptable discourse, and that you are participating at-will and don't need to be here, right? If you can't handle being polite, why don't you go to a place without any such rules? I hear hell is nice this time of year.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster6 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this the nerf Radient thread, or am I in the wrong place...."Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."6 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
The thought police strike!
Don't even think what you shouldn't think now, boys and girls. It might hurt someone's feelings!jamesfaine_ESO wrote: »Lol, are these forums moderated by lib art majors in LA hiding in their safe spaces? There are a few people on these forums that regularly troll, harass, badmouth and bully folks from other factions or with differing opinions and that is fine. But say one of the words that makes ZOS_PeterT even a tiny bit uncomfortable (and I am guessing that is a lot of words) and he is telling his mom. This PC nonsense is doing harm to our forum community in the micro and our country in the macro.
You both realize that you're on a moderated forum, with rules for acceptable discourse, and that you are participating at-will and don't need to be here, right? If you can't handle being polite, why don't you go to a place without any such rules? I hear hell is nice this time of year.
Of course we realize that.
The hypocrisy of the ZoS post is that "moderation" has become a moving target, subject the whims of some persons feelings, somewhere. Nowhere in the community guidelines is the word cancer mentioned. Profanity is specific called out because that is defineable to a set of words.
Whatever, it doesn't matter now
Nerf mDK!0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
The thought police strike!
Don't even think what you shouldn't think now, boys and girls. It might hurt someone's feelings!jamesfaine_ESO wrote: »Lol, are these forums moderated by lib art majors in LA hiding in their safe spaces? There are a few people on these forums that regularly troll, harass, badmouth and bully folks from other factions or with differing opinions and that is fine. But say one of the words that makes ZOS_PeterT even a tiny bit uncomfortable (and I am guessing that is a lot of words) and he is telling his mom. This PC nonsense is doing harm to our forum community in the micro and our country in the macro.
You both realize that you're on a moderated forum, with rules for acceptable discourse, and that you are participating at-will and don't need to be here, right? If you can't handle being polite, why don't you go to a place without any such rules? I hear hell is nice this time of year.
Of course we realize that.
The hypocrisy of the ZoS post is that "moderation" has become a moving target, subject the whims of some persons feelings, somewhere. Nowhere in the community guidelines is the word cancer mentioned. Profanity is specific called out because that is defineable to a set of words.
Whatever, it doesn't matter now
Nerf mDK!
Yea, but using that term is offensive to those that are currently dealing with cancer.
I think we can come up with a better term than that anyway.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sooo C***** builds will forever be named: Wrobel builds"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."1 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
The thought police strike!
Don't even think what you shouldn't think now, boys and girls. It might hurt someone's feelings!jamesfaine_ESO wrote: »Lol, are these forums moderated by lib art majors in LA hiding in their safe spaces? There are a few people on these forums that regularly troll, harass, badmouth and bully folks from other factions or with differing opinions and that is fine. But say one of the words that makes ZOS_PeterT even a tiny bit uncomfortable (and I am guessing that is a lot of words) and he is telling his mom. This PC nonsense is doing harm to our forum community in the micro and our country in the macro.
You both realize that you're on a moderated forum, with rules for acceptable discourse, and that you are participating at-will and don't need to be here, right? If you can't handle being polite, why don't you go to a place without any such rules? I hear hell is nice this time of year.
Of course we realize that.
The hypocrisy of the ZoS post is that "moderation" has become a moving target, subject the whims of some persons feelings, somewhere. Nowhere in the community guidelines is the word cancer mentioned. Profanity is specific called out because that is defineable to a set of words.
Whatever, it doesn't matter now
Nerf mDK!
Yea, but using that term is offensive to those that are currently dealing with cancer.
I think we can come up with a better term than that anyway.
It is offensive to me when people disagree with me. Therefore don't disagree.
See how absurd that is?4 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here's a suggestion instead of policing the forum , fix the game and most wouldn't be on here moaning, but hey just a suggestion4 -
Adenoma✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS's response in this thread makes me really uncomfortable about my name. Are they going to distinguish between benign and malignant... cancers?Edited by Adenoma on October 18, 2016 5:51PMAdenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Here's a suggestion instead of policing the forum , fix the game and most wouldn't be on here moaning, but hey just a suggestion
Impossible to accomplish. The game is actually in a very stable state right now, and forum complaints are basically just people wanting the game to work differently than it does. Contrast this with the folks who enjoy the game as it is and don't want to see it changed. There is no way to "fix" someone's preferred playstyle, but they can at least keep the forums well-moderated so that people can discuss things civilly.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_PeterT wrote: »We have removed several instances using the word "cancer".
Using "cancer" as a degrading term is considered to be offensive and does not promote a healthy and constructive conversation.
Please review our Community Guidelines for more information whilst posting.
The thought police strike!
Don't even think what you shouldn't think now, boys and girls. It might hurt someone's feelings!jamesfaine_ESO wrote: »Lol, are these forums moderated by lib art majors in LA hiding in their safe spaces? There are a few people on these forums that regularly troll, harass, badmouth and bully folks from other factions or with differing opinions and that is fine. But say one of the words that makes ZOS_PeterT even a tiny bit uncomfortable (and I am guessing that is a lot of words) and he is telling his mom. This PC nonsense is doing harm to our forum community in the micro and our country in the macro.
You both realize that you're on a moderated forum, with rules for acceptable discourse, and that you are participating at-will and don't need to be here, right? If you can't handle being polite, why don't you go to a place without any such rules? I hear hell is nice this time of year.
Of course we realize that.
The hypocrisy of the ZoS post is that "moderation" has become a moving target, subject the whims of some persons feelings, somewhere. Nowhere in the community guidelines is the word cancer mentioned. Profanity is specific called out because that is defineable to a set of words.
Whatever, it doesn't matter now
Nerf mDK!
Yea, but using that term is offensive to those that are currently dealing with cancer.
I think we can come up with a better term than that anyway.
It is offensive to me when people disagree with me. Therefore don't disagree.
See how absurd that is?
This fails even a basic harm test, not to mention that disagreeing is directly relevant to conversations about game design. Contrast this with mentioning various diseases as a proxy for describing a disagreeable design decision. It's accessory to the topic, easily avoided, and actually might cause suffering for someone undergoing treatment for said condition. That's not to say you can't use colorful language, but it's easy enough to do so without being insensitive. Try "these builds are a degenerative pox on the community" or "I felt weak and unprepared when someone wrecked me with a proc build".Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster4 -
Fruitdog✭✭✭✭don't say pox because smallpox, syphilis, chicken pox etc.
don't say wrecked because 35,000 traffic fatalities last year in the US alone
don't say cheese because lactose intolerance11 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Here's a suggestion instead of policing the forum , fix the game and most wouldn't be on here moaning, but hey just a suggestion
Impossible to accomplish. The game is actually in a very stable state right now, and forum complaints are basically just people wanting the game to work differently than it does. Contrast this with the folks who enjoy the game as it is and don't want to see it changed. There is no way to "fix" someone's preferred playstyle, but they can at least keep the forums well-moderated so that people can discuss things civilly
If you call lag , exploits etc as Stable then yes the game is working as promised0
This discussion has been closed.