Interesting wording of patch notes 2.6.6 considering 2.6.5

daedalusAI · October 2016

Recapitulation:
Patch 2.6.5

Monsters in Normal versions of dungeons have had their health increased to the correct levels

Response to the issue of insane damage- and hp-scaling in normal dungeons after 2 days:

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks,

A bit of a mea culpa here. We did erroneously adjusted the damage of normal dungeons higher than intended and will be bringing them back in line with the next incremental. They should be adjusted back to the health and power levels from OneTamriel Launch.

Thanks for all the feedback and we apologize for the unexpected spike in difficulty.

As you can already tell their "simple tweak" of only adjusting hp numbers did backfire and increased the monster damage too - a side-effect which they themselves didn't account for.

Now there is patch 2.6.6

Monsters in Normal Dungeons have had their power reduced, and boss monsters have had their health slightly increased

That part reads as if 2.6.5 tweaked monster damage - which it didn't.
ZOS somehow didn't know that increasing monster hp would increase their damage too.

For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
Concerning this issue there were 2 official comments - and nothing more.

Power reduced to what level: before 2.6.5. hit or to completely new values?
Only boss monsters have their health increased meaning every "normal" monster has the same hp values as before 2.6.5 - or new values?

ZOS wasn't forthcoming in sharing information about wrongly scaled hp/damage - and now you get patch notes which are almost devoid of actual meaning.

magnusthorek · October 2016

Tell me: When ZOS is REALLY forthcoming in sharing information other than what we geton Natch Potes?

Moloch1514 · October 2016

I'd like to see a bit more of an explanation/justification for the changes. Is increasing Boss HP slightly, as the new patch states, going to introduce higher damage as did last week's HP increase?

MissBizz · October 2016

ZOS_Finn Made this comment earlier (concerning the suddenly hard hitting normal mobs)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3440337/#Comment_3440337

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks,

A bit of a mea culpa here. We did erroneously adjusted the damage of normal dungeons higher than intended and will be bringing them back in line with the next incremental. They should be adjusted back to the health and power levels from OneTamriel Launch.

Thanks for all the feedback and we apologize for the unexpected spike in difficulty.

(emphasis by me)

Did anyone check the health of bosses during all these steps? Maybe today's patch notes is reducing power (from current, which was hitting too hard), and increasing health (which maybe never happened... instead of more health.. more damage was added?) I'm not sure as I didn't actually pay attention to boss health between One Tamriel and the last Patch.

Milvan · October 2016

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

Asardes · October 2016

Mobs having less health but doing more damage on normal mode was messed up. Both health and damage should increase from normal to veteran mode. So they realized they messed up and they tweaked it to be more consistent. ZoS development team seems pretty sensitive about player feedback following different changes they do in the incremental patches. I remember doing VICP right after the update, with Lord Warden's Council bosses having almost trial boss stats and then then at the next incremental patch they nerfed them so hard that at next pledge they almost seemed to be easier than before the patch - didn't check the actual numbers but it felt like that.

Moloch1514 · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

Clearly.

MissBizz · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

@Milvan Just so you totally understand. Normal dungeons should be where people learn to git gud. They are normal dungeons.. not vet. Some mobs were actually doing more damage in normal than in vet. Normal modes of something should not be doing more damage than their harder option. Mobs doing more damage in normal version than in veteran difficulty is not a l2p git gud issue. This is not people just saying they were too hard, mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet.

Reorx_Holybeard · October 2016

So the issue with mob's damage in Normal dungeons seemed to mostly with the original Veteran Dungeons that were made into normal versions for One Tamriel. The original Normal Dungeons seemed fine, or least the issue was much less pronounced.

Looking into today's changes in v2.6.6 and the patch notes don't really give all the details. It looks like damage in most Normal dungeons were reduced in all versions to a point that was similar to normal dungeons prior to One Tamriel. Hit points of all mobs, trash and bosses, were adjusted both up and down. Main boss HP went up as much as 50% and mini-boss/trash HP when down as much as 40%.

Normal Darkshade II
I tried soloing this one a few days ago when it was the pledge and just getting past the first bunch of trash mobs was difficult and the first boss (Fallen Foreman) was impossible. Trash mobs hit for up to 5k and the boss attacks were above 10k. Trash HP seemed excessive and/or mob resistance was very high.

Post v2.6.6 however and this seems to have returned to a "normal" difficulty and I had no trouble soloing trash packs or the first boss. Trash went down very quickly though I don't have exact values of HP/resistances pre and post patch.

Normal Vaults of Madness
I soloed this dungeon a lot after One Tamriel's release and it was not that difficult though it appears the difficulty has been reduced even further in v2.6.6. Boss and trash damage has been reduced noticeably. HP values of trash/mini bosses has been reduced (some a lot) and boss HP has been increased as little as listed below:

Necromancer Trash = 54k HP pre-patch / 26k HP post-patch
Watcher = 198k / 118k
Banekin = 44k / 26k
Flame Atronach = 56k / 33k
Cursed One = 370k / 314k
Ulgura = 990k / 1414k
Death's Head = 693k / 589k
Grothgar = 990k / 1262k
Achaeraizur = 369k / 314k
Ancient One = 690k / 589k
Iskra = 990k / 1262k
Mad Architect = 1118k / 1515k

I don't have exact resistances from pre-2.6.6 but it feels like all mobs/bosses are taking more damage in normals and going down faster but that might just be due to most trash and some bosses having a lot less HP.

Moloch1514 · October 2016

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

So the issue with mob's damage in Normal dungeons seemed to mostly with the original Veteran Dungeons that were made into normal versions for One Tamriel. The original Normal Dungeons seemed fine, or least the issue was much less pronounced.

Looking into today's changes in v2.6.6 and the patch notes don't really give all the details. It looks like damage in most Normal dungeons were reduced in all versions to a point that was similar to normal dungeons prior to One Tamriel. Hit points of all mobs, trash and bosses, were adjusted both up and down. Main boss HP went up as much as 50% and mini-boss/trash HP when down as much as 40%.

Normal Darkshade II
I tried soloing this one a few days ago when it was the pledge and just getting past the first bunch of trash mobs was difficult and the first boss (Fallen Foreman) was impossible. Trash mobs hit for up to 5k and the boss attacks were above 10k. Trash HP seemed excessive and/or mob resistance was very high.

Post v2.6.6 however and this seems to have returned to a "normal" difficulty and I had no trouble soloing trash packs or the first boss. Trash went down very quickly though I don't have exact values of HP/resistances pre and post patch.

Normal Vaults of Madness
I soloed this dungeon a lot after One Tamriel's release and it was not that difficult though it appears the difficulty has been reduced even further in v2.6.6. Boss and trash damage has been reduced noticeably. HP values of trash/mini bosses has been reduced (some a lot) and boss HP has been increased as little as listed below:
Necromancer Trash = 54k HP pre-patch / 26k HP post-patch

Watcher = 198k / 118k

Banekin = 44k / 26k

Flame Atronach = 56k / 33k

Cursed One = 370k / 314k

Ulgura = 990k / 1414k

Death's Head = 693k / 589k

Grothgar = 990k / 1262k

Achaeraizur = 369k / 314k

Ancient One = 690k / 589k

Iskra = 990k / 1262k

Mad Architect = 1118k / 1515k

I don't have exact resistances from pre-2.6.6 but it feels like all mobs/bosses are taking more damage in normals and going down faster but that might just be due to most trash and some bosses having a lot less HP.

Exactly this. We grinded Veteran VoM for divines Grothdarr all weekend 2-man no problem, but Normal Darkshade II was a train wreck. We even did 2man Blackheart no problem, but Normal version II were jacked!

Milvan · October 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

@Milvan Just so you totally understand. Normal dungeons should be where people learn to git gud. They are normal dungeons.. not vet. Some mobs were actually doing more damage in normal than in vet. Normal modes of something should not be doing more damage than their harder option. Mobs doing more damage in normal version than in veteran difficulty is not a l2p git gud issue. This is not people just saying they were too hard, mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet.

Myself, I played most of dungeons, both in normal and vet and I cannot confirm that "mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet". I have done a lot of them especially with my low-levels toons and friends and never I faced such issues.

Yes, they did buff the group dungeons, but I think it's alright because prior 1T, there barely gave any learning experience becasue they ere utterly easy. Currently, prior 2.6.6 players could at learn one thing or two from the bosses. Now with 2.6.6 we are probably going back to the same casual-solo-scrolls content. Which really saddens me.

MissBizz · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

@Milvan Just so you totally understand. Normal dungeons should be where people learn to git gud. They are normal dungeons.. not vet. Some mobs were actually doing more damage in normal than in vet. Normal modes of something should not be doing more damage than their harder option. Mobs doing more damage in normal version than in veteran difficulty is not a l2p git gud issue. This is not people just saying they were too hard, mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet.

Myself, I played most of dungeons, both in normal and vet and I cannot confirm that "mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet". I have done a lot of them especially with my low-levels toons and friends and never I faced such issues.

Yes, they did buff the group dungeons, but I think it's alright because prior 1T, there barely gave any learning experience becasue they ere utterly easy. Currently, prior 2.6.6 players could at learn one thing or two from the bosses. Now with 2.6.6 we are probably going back to the same casual-solo-scrolls content. Which really saddens me.

@milvan I wasn't sure if you would see this so I actually sent a link showing how some normal mobs were actually hitting harder than the vet versions.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3437852/#Comment_3437852

For anyone else that would like to see.

Milvan · October 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

@Milvan Just so you totally understand. Normal dungeons should be where people learn to git gud. They are normal dungeons.. not vet. Some mobs were actually doing more damage in normal than in vet. Normal modes of something should not be doing more damage than their harder option. Mobs doing more damage in normal version than in veteran difficulty is not a l2p git gud issue. This is not people just saying they were too hard, mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet.

Myself, I played most of dungeons, both in normal and vet and I cannot confirm that "mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet". I have done a lot of them especially with my low-levels toons and friends and never I faced such issues.

Yes, they did buff the group dungeons, but I think it's alright because prior 1T, there barely gave any learning experience becasue they ere utterly easy. Currently, prior 2.6.6 players could at learn one thing or two from the bosses. Now with 2.6.6 we are probably going back to the same casual-solo-scrolls content. Which really saddens me.

@milvan I wasn't sure if you would see this so I actually sent a link showing how some normal mobs were actually hitting harder than the vet versions.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3437852/#Comment_3437852

For anyone else that would like to see.

I just got your mail. Indeed, this specific case reported seems like an issue, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't apply to all dungeons (I have run normal and vet FG1 and normal and vet selene web and lot yesterday and I can confirm that this specific issue doesn't apply to them).

The fix addressed in 2.6.6 doesn't seem do fix this specific issue, but it just a overall nerf to all dungeons (even the ones that didn't have the normal>Vet problem).

ZOS_Finn · October 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_Finn Made this comment earlier (concerning the suddenly hard hitting normal mobs)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3440337/#Comment_3440337

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks,

A bit of a mea culpa here. We did erroneously adjusted the damage of normal dungeons higher than intended and will be bringing them back in line with the next incremental. They should be adjusted back to the health and power levels from OneTamriel Launch.

Thanks for all the feedback and we apologize for the unexpected spike in difficulty.

(emphasis by me)

Did anyone check the health of bosses during all these steps? Maybe today's patch notes is reducing power (from current, which was hitting too hard), and increasing health (which maybe never happened... instead of more health.. more damage was added?) I'm not sure as I didn't actually pay attention to boss health between One Tamriel and the last Patch.

With 2.6.5, we actually adjusted non-boss monsters up in Health and reduced the Bosses down a bit. The quoted change above reverts that so that bosses will have more health but hit less hard.

MissBizz · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

@Milvan Just so you totally understand. Normal dungeons should be where people learn to git gud. They are normal dungeons.. not vet. Some mobs were actually doing more damage in normal than in vet. Normal modes of something should not be doing more damage than their harder option. Mobs doing more damage in normal version than in veteran difficulty is not a l2p git gud issue. This is not people just saying they were too hard, mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet.

Myself, I played most of dungeons, both in normal and vet and I cannot confirm that "mobs were actually hitting harder in normal mode than in vet". I have done a lot of them especially with my low-levels toons and friends and never I faced such issues.

Yes, they did buff the group dungeons, but I think it's alright because prior 1T, there barely gave any learning experience becasue they ere utterly easy. Currently, prior 2.6.6 players could at learn one thing or two from the bosses. Now with 2.6.6 we are probably going back to the same casual-solo-scrolls content. Which really saddens me.

@milvan I wasn't sure if you would see this so I actually sent a link showing how some normal mobs were actually hitting harder than the vet versions.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3437852/#Comment_3437852

For anyone else that would like to see.

I just got your mail. Indeed, this specific case reported seems like an issue, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't apply to all dungeons (I have run normal and vet FG1 and normal and vet selene web and lot yesterday and I can confirm that this specific issue doesn't apply to them).

The fix addressed in 2.6.6 doesn't seem do fix this specific issue, but it just a overall nerf to all dungeons (even the ones that didn't have the normal>Vet problem).

I'm at work and definitely won't argue what the patch actually did or didn't do. As today's patch note reads it should have fixed the issue... but from the VoM posts above it yeah, may have just been a general blanket nerf. As well, if you are a skill player, it would likely be harder to notice.. because even if mobs are hitting harder, and even if you are on a low level alt.. you likely already know mechanics, to block, don't stand in red etc., so it probably wasn't as noticeable. FG2 was another dungeon experiencing the problem.. not ALL were tested but it seemed to generally be II dungeons, not I or dungeons without a second half (so the dungeons you ran a lot yesterday likely weren't wonky - FG1 and Selene's) Another reported case was here.

Like I said, I'm at work, maybe they did get a blanket nerf rather than just fixing what was a bug. I just wanted you to know that for some dungeons.. it was a legit bug and not a l2p issue

Milvan · October 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

Like I said, I'm at work, maybe they did get a blanket nerf rather than just fixing what was a bug. I just wanted you to know that for some dungeons.. it was a legit bug and not a l2p issue

I acknowledged that now comrade. Indeed, it seems there is a legit bug affecting some dungeons.

daedalusAI · October 2016

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_Finn Made this comment earlier (concerning the suddenly hard hitting normal mobs)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3440337/#Comment_3440337

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks,

A bit of a mea culpa here. We did erroneously adjusted the damage of normal dungeons higher than intended and will be bringing them back in line with the next incremental. They should be adjusted back to the health and power levels from OneTamriel Launch.

Thanks for all the feedback and we apologize for the unexpected spike in difficulty.

(emphasis by me)

Did anyone check the health of bosses during all these steps? Maybe today's patch notes is reducing power (from current, which was hitting too hard), and increasing health (which maybe never happened... instead of more health.. more damage was added?) I'm not sure as I didn't actually pay attention to boss health between One Tamriel and the last Patch.

With 2.6.5, we actually adjusted non-boss monsters up in Health and reduced the Bosses down a bit. The quoted change above reverts that so that bosses will have more health but hit less hard.

Damn do I despise such generalized answers.
Is it so hard to provide actual numbers?

Still no idea how the damage of every monster including bosses was adjusted - or if I even should believe you that you did so after that 2.6.5. debacle.

UrQuan · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Like I said, I'm at work, maybe they did get a blanket nerf rather than just fixing what was a bug. I just wanted you to know that for some dungeons.. it was a legit bug and not a l2p issue

I acknowledged that now comrade. Indeed, it seems there is a legit bug affecting some dungeons.

There was a legit bug that affected every dungeon that I tested, and from what I've heard from other people (and from what was implied by Finn) it was most likely all of them. It sure would be nice if people would actually check these things before shutting down the people who are struggling thanks to the bugs with stupid "git gud" comments...

cjthibs · October 2016

daedalusAI wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_Finn Made this comment earlier (concerning the suddenly hard hitting normal mobs)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3440337/#Comment_3440337

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks,

A bit of a mea culpa here. We did erroneously adjusted the damage of normal dungeons higher than intended and will be bringing them back in line with the next incremental. They should be adjusted back to the health and power levels from OneTamriel Launch.

Thanks for all the feedback and we apologize for the unexpected spike in difficulty.

(emphasis by me)

Did anyone check the health of bosses during all these steps? Maybe today's patch notes is reducing power (from current, which was hitting too hard), and increasing health (which maybe never happened... instead of more health.. more damage was added?) I'm not sure as I didn't actually pay attention to boss health between One Tamriel and the last Patch.

With 2.6.5, we actually adjusted non-boss monsters up in Health and reduced the Bosses down a bit. The quoted change above reverts that so that bosses will have more health but hit less hard.

Damn do I despise such generalized answers.
Is it so hard to provide actual numbers?

Still no idea how the damage of every monster including bosses was adjusted - or if I even should believe you that you did so after that 2.6.5. debacle.

Dude. Take off your tinfoil hat.
They messed up the numbers, they're fixing it. And no, they're not going to give you exact numbers.

Relax and enjoy the game. And if you don't enjoy the game, just go somewhere else that's less stress-inducing for you.

magnusthorek · October 2016

The VERY rare circumstances ZOS provides detailed numbers outside Natch Potes is when a big and worldwide recognized player makes a serious acusation like the one about class balancing a while back.

I know they have responsibilities to attend and there's usually not time to answer that deeply but IMHO, once in a while, it wouldn't hurt.

If they had time to show up in the forums to post that means they are following the subject and this not as quick as post a simple answer so, with a bit more effort, more details could be provided as well.

jedtb16_ESO · October 2016

daedalusAI wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_Finn Made this comment earlier (concerning the suddenly hard hitting normal mobs)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3440337/#Comment_3440337

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks,

A bit of a mea culpa here. We did erroneously adjusted the damage of normal dungeons higher than intended and will be bringing them back in line with the next incremental. They should be adjusted back to the health and power levels from OneTamriel Launch.

Thanks for all the feedback and we apologize for the unexpected spike in difficulty.

(emphasis by me)

Did anyone check the health of bosses during all these steps? Maybe today's patch notes is reducing power (from current, which was hitting too hard), and increasing health (which maybe never happened... instead of more health.. more damage was added?) I'm not sure as I didn't actually pay attention to boss health between One Tamriel and the last Patch.

With 2.6.5, we actually adjusted non-boss monsters up in Health and reduced the Bosses down a bit. The quoted change above reverts that so that bosses will have more health but hit less hard.

Damn do I despise such generalized answers.
Is it so hard to provide actual numbers?

Still no idea how the damage of every monster including bosses was adjusted - or if I even should believe you that you did so after that 2.6.5. debacle.

i think it's called 'constructive ambiguity'

Thrasher91604 · October 2016

I think it's not knowing very well what's been done due to the telephone game, and little to no actual testing.

Mojmir · October 2016

they give numbers when they nerf/buff skills,why not these? Consistency needs to be shown

Thrasher91604 · October 2016

Skills are easy to test.

100 dungeons, not so much.

Not that I approve of the lack of testing, just offering a possible explanation

Tavore1138 · October 2016

They should really have got documentation from all the guys that did the initial coding before they let them go - that way they'd know which field to change from 1 to 1.2 to add HP without also changing all the other attributes... as those of us who lived through the doubling of everything in vet mode will remember they have not yet figured it out in over 2 years...

Milvan · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Like I said, I'm at work, maybe they did get a blanket nerf rather than just fixing what was a bug. I just wanted you to know that for some dungeons.. it was a legit bug and not a l2p issue

I acknowledged that now comrade. Indeed, it seems there is a legit bug affecting some dungeons.

There was a legit bug that affected every dungeon that I tested, and from what I've heard from other people (and from what was implied by Finn) it was most likely all of them. It sure would be nice if people would actually check these things before shutting down the people who are struggling thanks to the bugs with stupid "git gud" comments...

I have tested many of them, and I can assure that not all of them are affected by it. Also, if you check by the recent post of op, you'll clearly see that it's git gud isse.

UrQuan · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Like I said, I'm at work, maybe they did get a blanket nerf rather than just fixing what was a bug. I just wanted you to know that for some dungeons.. it was a legit bug and not a l2p issue

I acknowledged that now comrade. Indeed, it seems there is a legit bug affecting some dungeons.

There was a legit bug that affected every dungeon that I tested, and from what I've heard from other people (and from what was implied by Finn) it was most likely all of them. It sure would be nice if people would actually check these things before shutting down the people who are struggling thanks to the bugs with stupid "git gud" comments...

I have tested many of them, and I can assure that not all of them are affected by it. Also, if you check by the recent post of op, you'll clearly see that it's git gud isse.

Show me your data @Milvan. The only way to compare is to see how much damage the exact same mobs using the same attacks did to a character with the same resistance. I tested using a naked character going and getting killed by the same mobs in the non-vet and vet versions of the same dungeon. I was consistently finding the mobs on non-vet were doing roughly 30% additional damage compared to the mobs on vet, although the mobs on vet had more health. What was your testing methodology?

alexkdd99 · October 2016

Milvan wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

(...)
For people who didn't follow that scaling issue: for the week between patch 2.6.5 and 2.6.6 normal dungeons were unplayable because impossible to finish for low-level player eligible to queue for dungeons according to their level.
(...)

IMHO this is clearly a l2p git gud issue. I have been to multiple group dungeons (parts I and II) and I barely noticed any difference.

The game brought a lot of new players and as well as people that left the game for a while, of course they will need to ajust and learn and relearn the game, problem is that the casual-scrolls online are just soo annoying and vocal. They complain just about everything instead of learning the game. Look at this Thread for example where the player comes with a lot of negativity just because he got insta killed by a group boss.

It's very sad that ZOS chose to listen these awful and twisted feedback and nerfed the group dungeons with the 2.6.6. Even tho it's clearly a l2p issue. They clearly step back and say it was a bug to decrease the colateral damage that these players were creating.

Or as zos said the power was increased more than intended? They said it was unintended and they were changing it, so I don't think it could be l2p.

Edit: also the only thing twisted is how you try to turn this into a zos cover up. Kind of unsure if this was meant to be serious now.

gel214thb14_ESO · October 2016

magnusthorek wrote: »

If they had time to show up in the forums to post that means they are following the subject and this not as quick as post a simple answer so, with a bit more effort, more details could be provided as well.

And this is why companies don't communicate anything to customers.

Milvan · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Like I said, I'm at work, maybe they did get a blanket nerf rather than just fixing what was a bug. I just wanted you to know that for some dungeons.. it was a legit bug and not a l2p issue

I acknowledged that now comrade. Indeed, it seems there is a legit bug affecting some dungeons.

There was a legit bug that affected every dungeon that I tested, and from what I've heard from other people (and from what was implied by Finn) it was most likely all of them. It sure would be nice if people would actually check these things before shutting down the people who are struggling thanks to the bugs with stupid "git gud" comments...

I have tested many of them, and I can assure that not all of them are affected by it. Also, if you check by the recent post of op, you'll clearly see that it's git gud isse.

Show me your data @Milvan. The only way to compare is to see how much damage the exact same mobs using the same attacks did to a character with the same resistance. I tested using a naked character going and getting killed by the same mobs in the non-vet and vet versions of the same dungeon. I was consistently finding the mobs on non-vet were doing roughly 30% additional damage compared to the mobs on vet, although the mobs on vet had more health. What was your testing methodology?

I acknowledge that there is issue with some dungeons, but not all of them. I have been farming FG1 and Selene web both on vet and normal modes and I assure to you that they are not presenting this issue.

They came up with this "unintended" thing far after the casual-scrolls started to fllood the forums with complains.

Valen_Byte · October 2016

What is the point of this thread? none.