Now that I think about it I did have to spam Dark Deal quite frequently on my Sorc Tank to keep my stamina reserves up last night. Someone may want to look into the actual block cost, not sure what the cost was prior to the patch.

They may have not intended to change it, but you know things get "broken" all the time.

@Maikon ,
I found one change in the formular that calculates the Stamina cost per hit since live before the OT update.
That change decreases the cost per hit substantially when you use Shield-Play enchants,
and increases the cost with 5% when you have Defensive Posture slotted (without enchants)
When you have neither Defensive Posture slotted or enchants, the cost per hit stay the same.

You state however that the effective cost when Tanking have increased.
This would be possible despite the lower cost per hit.
In the old block cost system you could only incur the Stamina cost of 1 hit per 0.5 seconds.
Anymore hits in that 0.5 second time window cause damage but no additional Stamina cost.
A change here could be a second change, and could explain the higher Stamina cost you experience/feel while tanking.

@paulsimonps ,
Guess this is also interesting for you.
We both posted on September 19 in the following block thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3373057#Comment_3373057
posts describing the Stamina Block cost on PTS (the PTS patch of that date !)
I checked as far as I remember on PTS. You to I believe.
AND AT THAT MOMENT the block cost on PTS were the same as live before the OT update.

The old Formular was:
BLOCK COST=(Base*((100-CP)/100)*((100-#Sturdy*Strength of Sturdy)/100)-(#Enchants*Strength of Enchants))*((100-Fortress-Defensive Posture)/100)

I did my testing this evening with:

1. A NB CP 160, with all S&B passives unlocked on PC EU live and PTS
2. 25% cost reduction from CP => (100-CP)/100 becomes 75%
3. A full purple armor set + shield with 8*3.5% Sturdy. => ((100-#Sturdy*Strenght of Sturdy)/100) becomes 72%
4. I used two golden Shield-Play enchants of 203 each. => (#Enchants*Strength of Enchants) becomes 406
5. All S&B passives fully unlocked. => ((100-Fortress-Defensive Posture)/100) becomes 56% (100% - 36% - 8%)

Put in the old Formular:
(2,160*75%*72% - 406)*56% = (1,166.4 - 406)*56% = 426 Stamina cost per hit

Today, on live and on PTS, when I checked up because of this post, the base cost were still 2,160, but the Stamina cost per hit were not higher but lower: 313 !!!

After some testing the following Formular did cover all my testing data:
New Formular with the figures put in to read and compare it easier:
(2,160*75%*72%*64% - 406)*92% = (746.5 - 406)*92% = 340.5*92% = 313 Stamina cost per hit.

BLOCK COST=(Base*((100-CP)/100)*((100-#Sturdy*Strength of Sturdy)/100)*((100-Fortress)/100)-(#Enchants*Strength of Enchants))*((100-Defensive Posture)/100)

The change is that the 36% reduction from Fortress is fully separated from the 8% of Defensive Posture:
The 36% of Fortress is now multiplicative with Sturdy and CP before the substraction of enchants.
Defensive Posture is at the same place in the formular.

@Maikon , @xRIVALENx ,
What Block cost reduction are you running on your build ?

Sneakles wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

After some testing the following Formular did cover all my testing data:
New Formular with the figures put in to read and compare it easier:
(2,160*75%*72%*64% - 406)*92% = (746.5 - 406)*92% = 340.5*92% = 313 Stamina cost per hit.

BLOCK COST=(Base*((100-CP)/100)*((100-#Sturdy*Strength of Sturdy)/100)*((100-Fortress)/100)-(#Enchants*Strength of Enchants))*((100-Defensive Posture)/100)

The change is that the 36% reduction from Fortress is fully separated from the 8% of Defensive Posture:
The 36% of Fortress is now multiplicative with Sturdy and CP before the substraction of enchants.
Defensive Posture is at the same place in the formular.

Thanks for the research on this.

If this new formula you have come up with is correct, then with fully maxed gear we are talking
(2160*.75*.68*.64-609)*.92 = 88.3 Stamina per hit.

At 4 hits max per regen cycle (.5 seconds ea for 2 seconds) we are talking a max of 353 stamina every 2 seconds, which is less than the constitution bonus for 2 heavy pieces of armor.

Jep it should,

But I will test the 3*enchant nevertheless to check and post back here.

Thing is that the OP posted an increase in Blocking cost !
IF he is right
That could mean that this capped Stamina cost, to max 1 stamina costing hit per 0.5 seconds window, could be changed as well !
That has to be tested as well.

EDIT:
just tested with 3 shield play enchants for 203 reduction each
and with the purple gear, as described in post #6, and Fortress and Defensive, the block cost were 126, the same as the new formular.

we need now only the testing of the 0.5 second windows

hrothbern wrote: »

@Maikon ,
I found one change in the formular that calculates the Stamina cost per hit since live before the OT update.
That change decreases the cost per hit substantially when you use Shield-Play enchants,
and increases the cost with 5% when you have Defensive Posture slotted (without enchants)
When you have neither Defensive Posture slotted or enchants, the cost per hit stay the same.

You state however that the effective cost when Tanking have increased.
This would be possible despite the lower cost per hit.
In the old block cost system you could only incur the Stamina cost of 1 hit per 0.5 seconds.
Anymore hits in that 0.5 second time window cause damage but no additional Stamina cost.
A change here could be a second change, and could explain the higher Stamina cost you experience/feel while tanking.

@paulsimonps ,
Guess this is also interesting for you.
We both posted on September 19 in the following block thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3373057#Comment_3373057
posts describing the Stamina Block cost on PTS (the PTS patch of that date !)
I checked as far as I remember on PTS. You to I believe.
AND AT THAT MOMENT the block cost on PTS were the same as live before the OT update.

The old Formular was:
BLOCK COST=(Base*((100-CP)/100)*((100-#Sturdy*Strength of Sturdy)/100)-(#Enchants*Strength of Enchants))*((100-Fortress-Defensive Posture)/100)

I did my testing this evening with:

1. A NB CP 160, with all S&B passives unlocked on PC EU live and PTS
2. 25% cost reduction from CP => (100-CP)/100 becomes 75%
3. A full purple armor set + shield with 8*3.5% Sturdy. => ((100-#Sturdy*Strenght of Sturdy)/100) becomes 72%
4. I used two golden Shield-Play enchants of 203 each. => (#Enchants*Strength of Enchants) becomes 406
5. All S&B passives fully unlocked. => ((100-Fortress-Defensive Posture)/100) becomes 56% (100% - 36% - 8%)

Put in the old Formular:
(2,160*75%*72% - 406)*56% = (1,166.4 - 406)*56% = 426 Stamina cost per hit

Today, on live and on PTS, when I checked up because of this post, the base cost were still 2,160, but the Stamina cost per hit were not higher but lower: 313 !!!

After some testing the following Formular did cover all my testing data:
New Formular with the figures put in to read and compare it easier:
(2,160*75%*72%*64% - 406)*92% = (746.5 - 406)*92% = 340.5*92% = 313 Stamina cost per hit.

BLOCK COST=(Base*((100-CP)/100)*((100-#Sturdy*Strength of Sturdy)/100)*((100-Fortress)/100)-(#Enchants*Strength of Enchants))*((100-Defensive Posture)/100)

The change is that the 36% reduction from Fortress is fully separated from the 8% of Defensive Posture:
The 36% of Fortress is now multiplicative with Sturdy and CP before the substraction of enchants.
Defensive Posture is at the same place in the formular.

@Maikon , @xRIVALENx ,
What Block cost reduction are you running on your build ?

@hrothbern

Thanks for the heads up. Checked it out and your formula is accurate, they moved where in the formula Fortress is. For me this significantly decreased my cost so.... YAY!!! BTW this means we get much lower cost if you put it all into it.

Old formula was:
((2160*((100-25)/100)*((100-8*4)/100)-(3*203))*((100-36-8)/100)=275.856

New formula was:
((2160*((100-25)/100)*((100-8*4)/100)*((100-36)/100))-(3*203))*((100-8)/100)=88.34208

.

.

Ok, so OP is conserned that cost has increased. Data is showing a significant DECREASE. brain = mush

The following information is what I found right after the CP system was launched.

@Asayre , post number 18 of this thread shows some of the in game testing I did to come up with my heuristic. I'm not sure how helpful it will be, but I hope you find it interesting!

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@hrothbern , I had about 20 zombies attacking me in vaults of madness and I didn't notice my stamina being drained very fast. I hope that this information is helpful with regards to the .5 second window.

Thanks for that info

Gonna see somewhere this week if I can repeat that and hopefully I can count on my addon the nr of hits and check against my stamina drain.

Currently gathering Skulls.

I'm currently finding that the following heuristic that I used when IC came out is useful for calculating block cost.

Block Cost % = Fortress %+ Defensive Stance %+ ((Shadow Ward % + Shield Play % + Sturdy %)/2)

Personofsecrets wrote: »

I don't know who's nerfing who any more.

@Personofsecrets ,
It is a confusing situation now

With CP Shadow Ward at 25%, S&B, Fortress, Defensive Posture, 8*3.5% (purple) Sturdy and 3 golden Shield Play Jewelry the Stamina cost decreased from 312 per hit in the Hist update to 127 Stamina per hit in the One Tamriel update.

Those 312 and 127 are hard data.
I just tested that 127 again and made for my archive some screenshots and a vid.

The formula in one of my posts above was derived from all combinations of the 6 elements in the formula and fits all precisely, and still valid.

So all in all Blocking got a buff: a decrease in cost....
...... unless that time window of 0.5 second is changed as well !!!

My first thought was that besides ofc the possible glitch, that the devs threw that 0.5 seconds window out of the window, because they removed some other time windows as well, like possibly the dodge time window.
but that is all speculation.

I need to test many hits per second in a controlled reproducable fashion.
And I do not know of any Add-On that shows me the stamina drain per millisecond time stamp, just like Combat Metrics shows damage per millisecond time stamp.

Damage is clearly more popular than resource sustain management

Anyway, coming week I will try to get multiple hits within 0.5 second windows.

BTW in your formula you mention % Shield Play.
How do I put in the 203 amounts of Shield Play in that formula ?

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You have to convert 203 to a percent.

203/2160 * 100 = 9.4 % roughly

Can you test block cost at least one time today please. I'm interested to see if you can reach the 127 number again.

I'm going to test my number again and post it here for you to show me what part I'm doing wrong.

From today's check:

this is before hit on block:


this is after 1 hit on block

Personofsecrets wrote: »

My setup

Fortress - 36%
Defensive Stance - 8%
Shadow Ward - 8.7%
Sturdy - 16%
Shield Play - 0%

My heuristic

Block Cost % person = .36+.08+((.087+.16)/2))
Block Cost % person = .5635
Block Cost person = 2160 * (1.00-.5635)
Block Cost person = 942.84

@paulsimonps heuristic

Block Cost paul = ((2160*((100-8.7)/100)*((100-8*4)/100)*((100-36)/100))-(0))*((100-8)/100)
Block Cost paul = 2160 * .913 * .68 * .64 * .92
Block Cost paul = 789.59

Actual in game block cost

@hrothbern @paulsimonps @Asayre

I come in my formula, confirmed by Paulsimonps to exactly the rounded 975 from your screenshot:

2160*91.3% = 1,972.08
1,972.08 * 84% = 1,656.547
1,656.547 * 64% = 1,060.19
1,060.19 - 0 = 1,060.19
1,060.19 * 92% = 975.375