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I don't understand wood elf humor

  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
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    carljokl wrote: »
    The further I get through the Aldmeri Dominion quest line and the more I learn about the green pack the more I think it is messed up.

    Highly questionable to be outraged by eating plants but have no problem with killing and eating animals. Most perverse still to eat people.

    Plants are liable to suffer less from being eaten than animals.
    Many plants produce fruits and berries specifically to be eaten so that their seeds can be distributed. There are many such fruits or nuts that can fall of their own accord. If they are not eaten they may simply go to waste.
    Some even theorise that some plants have desirable qualities so that they will be farmed. Wheat is able to grow in abundance due to being farmed. Collecting the wheat does not kill the plant.
    Some plants actually benefit and become healthier when pruned and grafted etc.

    Some trees die of their own accord or loose branches naturally. If the wood is not used it just goes to waste.

    I think it would be totally possible to have a Green Pact based on nurturing and respecting plant life that does not contain so many questionable or unhelpful parts.

    Y'ffre seems hit and miss with enforcement. Some are cursed and changed or sentenced to death for breaking the green pact while others get away with it without consequence.

    The crazy pumpkin loving Bosmer in Grahtwood. Also quite happy to kill her lover and other guests.
    Soldier in Reaper's March implies the green pact can be bent in times of war: "I even had a salad...and I liked it." Neither seem to be punished by Y'ffre.

    The Green Pact is just like it says: a Pact between Y'ffre the Storyteller and the Bosmer who live in the Valenwood. Y'ffre was one of the first to turn himself into an Ehlnofey, forming the framework on which nature itself was created.

    The Pact states that the Bosmer are free to live in the Valenwood and "shape" it to their needs, but in exchange they are not to harm the Valenwood (Y'ffre's creation) in any way, nor are the Bosmer allowed to shapeshift. Breaking the Pact sends the Bosmer to the Ooze to reflect on their sin for eternity.

    So in a way, the Pact tries to prevent any harm from coming to the forest, but it also tries to let nature takes its own course. Kinda like the Wyresses in Bangkorai, who despise the Sentinel there: they wish to have nature takes its own course, to be free.

    In the case of the Bosmer tho, the Pact allows them to shape nature to their will (that's how the Elden tree in Elden Root was formed, Bosmer have the ability to have trees grow into homes) and allows them to coexist with the Valenwood. And since the Pact only states to protect the forest (Flora), it didn't say anything about the creatures that live there (Fauna). Probably to allow the Bosmer (and other creatures in the Valenwood) to survive.

    It's a pretty well thought out Pact, though it still limits the Bosmer somewhat: no use of wood to create weapons for instance, although the Bosmer use imported wood, Bone and I think also wood from dead trees.
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • Taternater
    Taternater
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    carljokl wrote: »
    The further I get through the Aldmeri Dominion quest line and the more I learn about the green pack the more I think it is messed up.

    Highly questionable to be outraged by eating plants but have no problem with killing and eating animals. Most perverse still to eat people.

    Plants are liable to suffer less from being eaten than animals.
    Many plants produce fruits and berries specifically to be eaten so that their seeds can be distributed. There are many such fruits or nuts that can fall of their own accord. If they are not eaten they may simply go to waste.
    Some even theorise that some plants have desirable qualities so that they will be farmed. Wheat is able to grow in abundance due to being farmed. Collecting the wheat does not kill the plant.
    Some plants actually benefit and become healthier when pruned and grafted etc.

    Some trees die of their own accord or loose branches naturally. If the wood is not used it just goes to waste.

    I think it would be totally possible to have a Green Pact based on nurturing and respecting plant life that does not contain so many questionable or unhelpful parts.

    Y'ffre seems hit and miss with enforcement. Some are cursed and changed or sentenced to death for breaking the green pact while others get away with it without consequence.

    The crazy pumpkin loving Bosmer in Grahtwood. Also quite happy to kill her lover and other guests.
    Soldier in Reaper's March implies the green pact can be bent in times of war: "I even had a salad...and I liked it." Neither seem to be punished by Y'ffre.

    The Green Pact is just like it says: a Pact between Y'ffre the Storyteller and the Bosmer who live in the Valenwood. Y'ffre was one of the first to turn himself into an Ehlnofey, forming the framework on which nature itself was created.

    The Pact states that the Bosmer are free to live in the Valenwood and "shape" it to their needs, but in exchange they are not to harm the Valenwood (Y'ffre's creation) in any way, nor are the Bosmer allowed to shapeshift. Breaking the Pact sends the Bosmer to the Ooze to reflect on their sin for eternity.

    So in a way, the Pact tries to prevent any harm from coming to the forest, but it also tries to let nature takes its own course. Kinda like the Wyresses in Bangkorai, who despise the Sentinel there: they wish to have nature takes its own course, to be free.

    In the case of the Bosmer tho, the Pact allows them to shape nature to their will (that's how the Elden tree in Elden Root was formed, Bosmer have the ability to have trees grow into homes) and allows them to coexist with the Valenwood. And since the Pact only states to protect the forest (Flora), it didn't say anything about the creatures that live there (Fauna). Probably to allow the Bosmer (and other creatures in the Valenwood) to survive.

    It's a pretty well thought out Pact, though it still limits the Bosmer somewhat: no use of wood to create weapons for instance, although the Bosmer use imported wood, Bone and I think also wood from dead trees.

    We're getting off topic here. If I were a Bosmer I don't think I'd be doing cannibalism if I ate an Argonian. I'm sort of on the fence about Nords. They aren't beasts, but they aren't exactly civilized beings either.
  • XDragonDoomX
    XDragonDoomX
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  • ChapterMasterV
    ChapterMasterV
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    carljokl wrote: »
    The further I get through the Aldmeri Dominion quest line and the more I learn about the green pack the more I think it is messed up.

    Highly questionable to be outraged by eating plants but have no problem with killing and eating animals. Most perverse still to eat people.

    Plants are liable to suffer less from being eaten than animals.
    Many plants produce fruits and berries specifically to be eaten so that their seeds can be distributed. There are many such fruits or nuts that can fall of their own accord. If they are not eaten they may simply go to waste.
    Some even theorise that some plants have desirable qualities so that they will be farmed. Wheat is able to grow in abundance due to being farmed. Collecting the wheat does not kill the plant.
    Some plants actually benefit and become healthier when pruned and grafted etc.

    Some trees die of their own accord or loose branches naturally. If the wood is not used it just goes to waste.

    I think it would be totally possible to have a Green Pact based on nurturing and respecting plant life that does not contain so many questionable or unhelpful parts.

    Y'ffre seems hit and miss with enforcement. Some are cursed and changed or sentenced to death for breaking the green pact while others get away with it without consequence.

    The crazy pumpkin loving Bosmer in Grahtwood. Also quite happy to kill her lover and other guests.
    Soldier in Reaper's March implies the green pact can be bent in times of war: "I even had a salad...and I liked it." Neither seem to be punished by Y'ffre.

    Animals eat the nuts and berries and the bosmer eat the animals, so the bosmer still contribute.

    And also the bosmer that ate the salad was part of a special group of the king's elites that are exempt from the Green Pact. Forget what they are called, something rangers.
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  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
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    carljokl wrote: »
    The further I get through the Aldmeri Dominion quest line and the more I learn about the green pack the more I think it is messed up.

    Highly questionable to be outraged by eating plants but have no problem with killing and eating animals. Most perverse still to eat people.

    Plants are liable to suffer less from being eaten than animals.
    Many plants produce fruits and berries specifically to be eaten so that their seeds can be distributed. There are many such fruits or nuts that can fall of their own accord. If they are not eaten they may simply go to waste.
    Some even theorise that some plants have desirable qualities so that they will be farmed. Wheat is able to grow in abundance due to being farmed. Collecting the wheat does not kill the plant.
    Some plants actually benefit and become healthier when pruned and grafted etc.

    Some trees die of their own accord or loose branches naturally. If the wood is not used it just goes to waste.

    I think it would be totally possible to have a Green Pact based on nurturing and respecting plant life that does not contain so many questionable or unhelpful parts.

    Y'ffre seems hit and miss with enforcement. Some are cursed and changed or sentenced to death for breaking the green pact while others get away with it without consequence.

    The crazy pumpkin loving Bosmer in Grahtwood. Also quite happy to kill her lover and other guests.
    Soldier in Reaper's March implies the green pact can be bent in times of war: "I even had a salad...and I liked it." Neither seem to be punished by Y'ffre.

    Animals eat the nuts and berries and the bosmer eat the animals, so the bosmer still contribute.

    And also the bosmer that ate the salad was part of a special group of the king's elites that are exempt from the Green Pact. Forget what they are called, something rangers.

    They are not exactly exempt: some Bosmer willingly break the Green Pact. In the case of the Vinedusk Rangers, they do it to protect the Bosmer people from the Colovians and to protect the Camoran Dynasty
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • PS4_ZeColmeia
    PS4_ZeColmeia
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    I ate a jester last night, tasted kinda funny.

    I started cooking a paralyzed man and felt proud. My mom loves when I eat vegetables.
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  • purple-magicb16_ESO
    purple-magicb16_ESO
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    It's actually illegal for Bosmer to eat anything else. Green Pact is a very misleading name for for this law. Lol!

    Plants%20I%20Eat%20Plants_zpsdfi096ay.png

    Not so green. Funny cause I was playing an Altmer at the time. He appreciated her alternate eating habits greatly but still had to kill her to finish the quest.
    Edited by purple-magicb16_ESO on October 10, 2016 12:04PM
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  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    Vangy wrote: »
    Hmmm so interesting!

    So wait. If its a grey area, but the ooze (the plant talking thingy?) eats the woman even tho she was using a loophole (aka getting kitty to cut plant for her), then its kinda settled that cutting plants via proxy is outlawed by green pact? Or is it just cos this particular plant was something special and its totally cool to get non-bosmers to chop wood for example? Just curious sorry for the questions!

    From what I recall of that quest, that particular plant was in some way sacred or important. I also seem to recall that the Bosmer are allowed to use leaves etc. that fall of their own accord (which is why the alchemist thought it was okay to use the cutting - he didn't know it had been cut). And the Bosmer are allowed to fight plant-based monsters (though I do wonder if they're required to eat the corpse in that case).

    As far as I can tell, some Bosmer just take the prohibitions against harming the Green a step further then necessary and extend it to ALL plants--and given that they get their souls screwed over if they mess up the Green Pact, I can't say I blame them for wanting to add a buffer zone. But it means they throw a fit over the chopping down of trees outside Valenwood, even though Y'ffre doesn't care about the pines in Falkreath.

    And the Vinedusk Rangers, as previously mentioned, get special permissions so they can do their jobs...though now that it's come up, do we know they DON'T get sent to the Ouze after they die? Maybe they just don't get arrested for it? I'd assume Indaenir, at least, with his 'the whole Green is more important than singular parts and it's okay to kill that Spriggan boss to save the rest of the wood' outlook would be willing to release them from the Ouze afterwards, but it would then depend on the Silvenar...
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  • Daran_Cousland
    Daran_Cousland
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    Vangy wrote: »

    I know cutting and eating stuff from valenwood is forbidden via green pact to bosmer... But what if they used imported wood? Is that totally cool or will that result in one getting eaten by some oversized plant like in some quest I did in grahtwood. Think it was some woman getting pwnzor-ed by this weird man-eating plant cos she used some plant that grew in grahtwood.

    They don't even need to import it. They can just hire someone to harvest it. Wood elves can be carpenters they just can't be lumberjacks. Not in Valenwood, anyway.

    The Green Pact has so many loopholes its a farce.
  • Milvan
    Milvan
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    For the eight and our yet to be born lord and Savior Talos. Could guys plz stop opressing Bosmer's culture?

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  • Abeille
    Abeille
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    Vangy wrote: »
    Hmmm so interesting!

    So wait. If its a grey area, but the ooze (the plant talking thingy?) eats the woman even tho she was using a loophole (aka getting kitty to cut plant for her), then its kinda settled that cutting plants via proxy is outlawed by green pact? Or is it just cos this particular plant was something special and its totally cool to get non-bosmers to chop wood for example? Just curious sorry for the questions!
    From what I recall of that quest, that particular plant was in some way sacred or important. I also seem to recall that the Bosmer are allowed to use leaves etc. that fall of their own accord (which is why the alchemist thought it was okay to use the cutting - he didn't know it had been cut). And the Bosmer are allowed to fight plant-based monsters (though I do wonder if they're required to eat the corpse in that case).
    Yes, that was the case. The plant, a flower if I remember it correctly, was special. It wasn't just any simple flower. The Alchemist thought the plant had fallen and was a gift from Y'ffre to allow him to cure his wife. The wife was the only one who had the whole picture.

    Also, just adding about the Ooze: There is no indication that the plant itself had any connection to it. The Ooze is some sort of afterlife for Bosmer Oathbreakers. They return to being formless in the Ooze like before the Green Pact. The physical connection to the Ooze is called Ouze. Yes, Bosmer can be a little confusing sometimes.
    And the Vinedusk Rangers, as previously mentioned, get special permissions so they can do their jobs...though now that it's come up, do we know they DON'T get sent to the Ouze after they die?
    From what I understood, Oathbreakers need to be taken to the Ouze for them to be sent to the Ooze, but I could be wrong. Maybe they are just pardoned by the Silvenar himself*, since he can do that even after the Oathbreaker was already sent to the Ooze.

    And keep the questions coming. My main might be an Altmer in this game, but I started with TES playing Bosmer and I will always love them. No wonder I did the Dominion questline 10 times.

    *Late edit: I said "himself" because I was thinking of Indaenir, since he did that before he was chosen by the Green. The Silvenar isn't always male.
    Edited by Abeille on October 10, 2016 6:35PM
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  • KingYogi415
    KingYogi415
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    So can we blame the Bosmer for all the missing children?
  • BrianDavion
    BrianDavion
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    I don't think we're supposed to view the Bosmer, at least regarding the green pact as "funny" I more see the green pact as an inversion of the classic wood elf sterotype. the sterotype being the salad eating naturer lover. in this case wood elves are nature lovers so are pure carnivores.
  • TreeHugger1
    TreeHugger1
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    is cannibalism supposed to be funny?

    Jesus,didnt u see "The Silence of the Lambs"?
    There is nothing more funny than cannibalism.
    Edited by TreeHugger1 on October 11, 2016 7:25AM
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    By definition Cannibalism is eating you own species so how again is a Elf eating a Khajiit classified as Cannibalism?
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on October 11, 2016 8:01AM
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    carljokl wrote: »
    The further I get through the Aldmeri Dominion quest line and the more I learn about the green pact the more I think it is messed up.

    Highly questionable to be outraged by eating plants but have no problem with killing and eating animals. Most perverse still to eat people.

    Plants are liable to suffer less from being eaten than animals.
    Many plants produce fruits and berries specifically to be eaten so that their seeds can be distributed. There are many such fruits or nuts that can fall of their own accord. If they are not eaten they may simply go to waste.
    Some even theorise that some plants have desirable qualities so that they will be farmed. Wheat is able to grow in abundance due to being farmed. Collecting the wheat does not kill the plant.
    Some plants actually benefit and become healthier when pruned and grafted etc.

    Some trees die of their own accord or loose branches naturally. If the wood is not used it just goes to waste.

    I think it would be totally possible to have a Green Pact based on nurturing and respecting plant life that does not contain so many questionable or unhelpful parts.

    Y'ffre seems hit and miss with enforcement. Some are cursed and changed or sentenced to death for breaking the green pact while others get away with it without consequence.

    The crazy pumpkin loving Bosmer in Grahtwood. Also quite happy to kill her lover and other guests.
    Soldier in Reaper's March implies the green pact can be bent in times of war: "I even had a salad...and I liked it." Neither seem to be punished by Y'ffre.

    Elves are crazy. Its proven fact. Don't expect an Elf to make sense - sure plenty of them are intelligent, but they're crazy-intelligent.

    As an aside, Khajiit are cousins of the Bosmer that got twisted by a Daedra (Azura) and turned into strange cat-people. Oddly enough, another group of their elf cousins worship Azura (The Ashland Dunmer, and pre-Tribunal Velothi Dunmer/Chimer people).

    The whole Yffre Green Pact cult is also questionable as well, one of the crazier Aedras rolling around.

    While we're at it, rumors are abounding that Valenwood will be the location of the next TES game. I can't wait. While I think Elves are crazy, their weird world in the TES series always makes for heaps of fun: Just look at Morrowind for a prime example. :)
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  • Daran_Cousland
    Daran_Cousland
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    Elves are crazy. Its proven fact. Don't expect an Elf to make sense - sure plenty of them are intelligent, but they're crazy-intelligent.

    The whole Yffre Green Pact cult is also questionable as well, one of the crazier Aedras rolling around.

    yeah that's what I was thinking the Green Pact is something they just made up cuz they're a bunch of loons. and it's not a convincing excuse for the cannibalism because other mer folks do that too. there's a questline in Deshan about dark elves eating each other.
    Edited by Daran_Cousland on October 11, 2016 9:43PM
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    I don't understand wood elf humor
    ...Bosmer humor may sometimes take a while to disgest... :p;):D
  • Vangy
    Vangy
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    Abeille wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Hmmm so interesting!

    So wait. If its a grey area, but the ooze (the plant talking thingy?) eats the woman even tho she was using a loophole (aka getting kitty to cut plant for her), then its kinda settled that cutting plants via proxy is outlawed by green pact? Or is it just cos this particular plant was something special and its totally cool to get non-bosmers to chop wood for example? Just curious sorry for the questions!
    From what I recall of that quest, that particular plant was in some way sacred or important. I also seem to recall that the Bosmer are allowed to use leaves etc. that fall of their own accord (which is why the alchemist thought it was okay to use the cutting - he didn't know it had been cut). And the Bosmer are allowed to fight plant-based monsters (though I do wonder if they're required to eat the corpse in that case).
    Yes, that was the case. The plant, a flower if I remember it correctly, was special. It wasn't just any simple flower. The Alchemist thought the plant had fallen and was a gift from Y'ffre to allow him to cure his wife. The wife was the only one who had the whole picture.

    Also, just adding about the Ooze: There is no indication that the plant itself had any connection to it. The Ooze is some sort of afterlife for Bosmer Oathbreakers. They return to being formless in the Ooze like before the Green Pact. The physical connection to the Ooze is called Ouze. Yes, Bosmer can be a little confusing sometimes.
    And the Vinedusk Rangers, as previously mentioned, get special permissions so they can do their jobs...though now that it's come up, do we know they DON'T get sent to the Ouze after they die?
    From what I understood, Oathbreakers need to be taken to the Ouze for them to be sent to the Ooze, but I could be wrong. Maybe they are just pardoned by the Silvenar himself*, since he can do that even after the Oathbreaker was already sent to the Ooze.

    And keep the questions coming. My main might be an Altmer in this game, but I started with TES playing Bosmer and I will always love them. No wonder I did the Dominion questline 10 times.

    *Late edit: I said "himself" because I was thinking of Indaenir, since he did that before he was chosen by the Green. The Silvenar isn't always male.

    ty for the info! Its mighty interesting these bosmers.
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  • WanderingBeithe
    WanderingBeithe
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    So can we blame the Bosmer for all the missing children?

    No... we are not monsters. Too small.
    If it has a tail it is meant to be eaten.

  • BrianDavion
    BrianDavion
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    Elves are crazy. Its proven fact. Don't expect an Elf to make sense - sure plenty of them are intelligent, but they're crazy-intelligent.

    The whole Yffre Green Pact cult is also questionable as well, one of the crazier Aedras rolling around.

    yeah that's what I was thinking the Green Pact is something they just made up cuz they're a bunch of loons. and it's not a convincing excuse for the cannibalism because other mer folks do that too. there's a questline in Deshan about dark elves eating each other.

    yeaaah except that's very much not presented as simply a part of dark elf culture. rather this is a group taking extreme methods to survive. you can't compare that to the green pact. they're not comparable at all
  • Daran_Cousland
    Daran_Cousland
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    Elves are crazy. Its proven fact. Don't expect an Elf to make sense - sure plenty of them are intelligent, but they're crazy-intelligent.

    The whole Yffre Green Pact cult is also questionable as well, one of the crazier Aedras rolling around.

    yeah that's what I was thinking the Green Pact is something they just made up cuz they're a bunch of loons. and it's not a convincing excuse for the cannibalism because other mer folks do that too. there's a questline in Deshan about dark elves eating each other.

    yeaaah except that's very much not presented as simply a part of dark elf culture. rather this is a group taking extreme methods to survive. you can't compare that to the green pact. they're not comparable at all

    they might have been desperate at the start but it seems like they have a taste for it now "oh no the food ran out we can either go to the store or we can eat someone."
  • DorianDragonRaze
    DorianDragonRaze
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    You may not like wood elven meat but they would like yours. lol.
    Here is a really good explaination of the wood elves culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_5vQn36ms
    Edited by DorianDragonRaze on October 14, 2016 8:39PM
    I used to be an adventurer like you, then I got the ESO on my hard drive...
  • treborrealb14_ESO
    treborrealb14_ESO
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    is cannibalism supposed to be funny?

    Cant tell me Lizards or Orcs dont cannablis as well I mean ...just look at them
  • waterfairy
    waterfairy
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    Is it really cannibalism if they don't eat other Bosmer?
  • Daran_Cousland
    Daran_Cousland
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    is cannibalism supposed to be funny?

    Cant tell me Lizards or Orcs dont cannablis as well I mean ...just look at them

    do they look delicious to you?
  • DorianDragonRaze
    DorianDragonRaze
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    do they look delicious to you?
    Everything goes well with proper spices and cheese. Experiments with moon sugar can produce quite interesting results.

    I used to be an adventurer like you, then I got the ESO on my hard drive...
  • DorianDragonRaze
    DorianDragonRaze
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    Here is a really good explaination of the wood elves culture
    Therefore, bosmers aren't cannibals. Cannibalism is more about killing humanoids for food.
    Bosmers kill animals for food as other humanoids and kill humanoids at war as other humanoids.
    What they do with killed enemies is dictated by their pact obligations.

    I used to be an adventurer like you, then I got the ESO on my hard drive...
  • Abeille
    Abeille
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    Here is a really good explaination of the wood elves culture
    Therefore, bosmers aren't cannibals. Cannibalism is more about killing humanoids for food.
    Bosmers kill animals for food as other humanoids and kill humanoids at war as other humanoids.
    What they do with killed enemies is dictated by their pact obligations.

    Exactly. It is a "you kill, you eat" kind of thing, the Meat Mandate.
    Therefore, many Bosmer (I imagine the majority of them) can spend their whole lives without eating a single person.
    Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.

    Meet my characters:
    Command: Do the thing.

    Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
    Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
    Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
    Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
    Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
    Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
    Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
    Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
    Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
    Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.
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