ZOS, are u insane?

kojou · October 2016

The developers are going to have to put in some sort of 5 second "Global Proc Cooldown" or this stuff is going to get out of hand.

booksmcread · October 2016

Minalan wrote: »

ZOS is aware of the problem. Let's see what they do about it..

...in 3 or 6 months.

Mic1007 · October 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka damage is still right now more powerfull and does more damage then stamina damage and skills.

Living in early 2015, are we?

SHADOW2KK · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

I don't remember any of you complaining when Stamblades were completely broken and everyone had to wear a skirt and wave a wooden stick to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

And yes, i was most likely the only Stamblade in PvP back then.

Y'all seemed perfectly fine with *that* meta.

I was too sir, I absoluted hated the easy mode skirts and sticks meta back then.

Thealteregoroman · October 2016

Close this thread for trolling.

Magus · October 2016

olsborg wrote: »

I want a monster set that makes all procced sets useless to me, ive said it many times. Either that or make global cooldown on proccs 4-5s.

Fewk the Meta:

One Piece: Critical resistance 300
Two Piece: You take no dmg from sets that procc dmg on you (like viper, velidreth etc) and gain 10 ultimate each time you are hit by proccs.

I would wear that, zeni pls make

Rosveen · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

I don't remember any of you complaining when Stamblades were completely broken and everyone had to wear a skirt and wave a wooden stick to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

And yes, i was most likely the only Stamblade in PvP back then.

Y'all seemed perfectly fine with *that* meta.

I remember people complaining. *shrugs*

Faulgor · October 2016

I usually love proc effects, but it's clear there is a problem with the current implementation. The monster sets are more or less okay because you can only use 1 set, but the 5 piece sets are a problem because with 1T you can possibly use two, and they vary wildly in their effectiveness.

Personally, I think Viper and Widowmaker deserve to be toned down. They are just to reliable.
For comparison:

Viper's Sting
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Widowmaker
(5 items) When your alchemical poison fires, deal 7740 Poison Damage to all enemies within 5 meters of you.

Shadow of the Red Mountain
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Weapon ability, you have a 10% chance to deal an additional 8400 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Way of Fire
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Weapon ability, you have a 20% chance to deal an additional 4000 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 2 seconds.

Ashen Grip
(5 items) When you deal diret melee damage, you have a 10% chance to breath fire to all enemies in front of you for 1544 Flame Damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

All (or most) other proc sets merely have a chance to trigger, whereas Viper and Widowmaker are 100% and often of higher magnitude. This allows planning for unmatched and reliable burst damage. I think both sets should be brought in line with other proc sets, i.e., reduce the chance for the proc effect.

Wreuntzylla · October 2016

Tons of people complained that ESO failed to live up to Elder Scrolls franchise. Zenimax has been systematically patching in the old school stuff, whether in response to the outcry or as part of a long term plan. For example, people cried many a river about the lack of Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild. Both are now in the game.

Uno Tamriele addresses early complaints about the lack of flexibility and diversity to "play how you want." This patch addresses this a bit by removing some artificial boundaries and flooding the market with so many sets that the meta will take some time to settle. In the process, they made certain crown store items more desirable... They weaved this together in a way that the usual folks who complain about the "greedy corporate culture" have missed it completely.

To say Wrobel (or whoever is really steering the ship) doesn't know what they are doing does not compute. If you read between the lines of what they officially say, the decision was made to invest all their resources in bringing ESO back into the franchise fold as fast as possible, dumb it down to WoW "fun" level and then address balance issues afterwards.

Complain that they keep punching us PvPers in the gut patch after patch if you want. But to say they don't know what they are doing or what the impact will likely be is not rational. They simply don't care because their forecasts indicate that doing what they are doing will net them more players and cash in the long run, even if it alienates PvPers who have trouble adjusting to constant shifts in the meta (or simply don't want to have to keep adjusting).

As to the proc issue, this patch came with a few sets that can make you almost invulnerable along with a few skills. The mistake they made is having it on a % proc chance when hit. What they need to do is add sets that proc defenses as frequently as the offensive procs go off and are applied immediately (like healing is applied against damage before determining whether someone is dead). For example, if the pirate two piece was immediately applied against the tremor/viper combo, things would be a lot more interesting.

Luigi_Vampa · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

I don't remember any of you complaining when Stamblades were completely broken and everyone had to wear a skirt and wave a wooden stick to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

And yes, i was most likely the only Stamblade in PvP back then.

Y'all seemed perfectly fine with *that* meta.

I've never understood this argument. So, how long does stamina need to be OP before we can have balance? How much do us magicka users have to pay in reparations for balace to be achieved?

SirAndy · October 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I don't remember any of you complaining when Stamblades were completely broken and everyone had to wear a skirt and wave a wooden stick to be competitive in Cyrodiil.
And yes, i was most likely the only Stamblade in PvP back then.
Y'all seemed perfectly fine with *that* meta.

I've never understood this argument. So, how long does stamina need to be OP before we can have balance? How much do us magicka users have to pay in reparations for balace to be achieved?

The argument is that people should complain about imbalance no matter if they benefit from the current meta or not.

Most people here don't seem to give a crap about actual balance when it's tilted in their favor ...

Waffennacht · October 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Tons of people complained that ESO failed to live up to Elder Scrolls franchise. Zenimax has been systematically patching in the old school stuff, whether in response to the outcry or as part of a long term plan. For example, people cried many a river about the lack of Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild. Both are now in the game.

Uno Tamriele addresses early complaints about the lack of flexibility and diversity to "play how you want." This patch addresses this a bit by removing some artificial boundaries and flooding the market with so many sets that the meta will take some time to settle. In the process, they made certain crown store items more desirable... They weaved this together in a way that the usual folks who complain about the "greedy corporate culture" have missed it completely.

To say Wrobel (or whoever is really steering the ship) doesn't know what they are doing does not compute. If you read between the lines of what they officially say, the decision was made to invest all their resources in bringing ESO back into the franchise fold as fast as possible, dumb it down to WoW "fun" level and then address balance issues afterwards.

Complain that they keep punching us PvPers in the gut patch after patch if you want. But to say they don't know what they are doing or what the impact will likely be is not rational. They simply don't care because their forecasts indicate that doing what they are doing will net them more players and cash in the long run, even if it alienates PvPers who have trouble adjusting to constant shifts in the meta (or simply don't want to have to keep adjusting).

As to the proc issue, this patch came with a few sets that can make you almost invulnerable along with a few skills. The mistake they made is having it on a % proc chance when hit. What they need to do is add sets that proc defenses as frequently as the offensive procs go off and are applied immediately (like healing is applied against damage before determining whether someone is dead). For example, if the pirate two piece was immediately applied against the tremor/viper combo, things would be a lot more interesting.

The end of this post is very interesting

I actually really like the idea.

First thought, "20% chance when receiving damage, gain 10k health and allies in 5m gain 5k health"

"When under the effects of poison, gain 5k spell and weapon resistance"

Etc etc.

But yes, freakin good idea!

Vrath · October 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka damage is still right now more powerfull and does more damage then stamina damage and skills.

puff, puff, pass homie.. you clearly arent passing it around.

Wreuntzylla · October 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Tons of people complained that ESO failed to live up to Elder Scrolls franchise. Zenimax has been systematically patching in the old school stuff, whether in response to the outcry or as part of a long term plan. For example, people cried many a river about the lack of Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild. Both are now in the game.

Uno Tamriele addresses early complaints about the lack of flexibility and diversity to "play how you want." This patch addresses this a bit by removing some artificial boundaries and flooding the market with so many sets that the meta will take some time to settle. In the process, they made certain crown store items more desirable... They weaved this together in a way that the usual folks who complain about the "greedy corporate culture" have missed it completely.

To say Wrobel (or whoever is really steering the ship) doesn't know what they are doing does not compute. If you read between the lines of what they officially say, the decision was made to invest all their resources in bringing ESO back into the franchise fold as fast as possible, dumb it down to WoW "fun" level and then address balance issues afterwards.

Complain that they keep punching us PvPers in the gut patch after patch if you want. But to say they don't know what they are doing or what the impact will likely be is not rational. They simply don't care because their forecasts indicate that doing what they are doing will net them more players and cash in the long run, even if it alienates PvPers who have trouble adjusting to constant shifts in the meta (or simply don't want to have to keep adjusting).

As to the proc issue, this patch came with a few sets that can make you almost invulnerable along with a few skills. The mistake they made is having it on a % proc chance when hit. What they need to do is add sets that proc defenses as frequently as the offensive procs go off and are applied immediately (like healing is applied against damage before determining whether someone is dead). For example, if the pirate two piece was immediately applied against the tremor/viper combo, things would be a lot more interesting.

The end of this post is very interesting

I actually really like the idea.

First thought, "20% chance when receiving damage, gain 10k health and allies in 5m gain 5k health"

"When under the effects of poison, gain 5k spell and weapon resistance"

Etc etc.

But yes, freakin good idea!

People tend to forget that ZoS gave up on balance a long time ago and settled on rock/paper/scissors. If something is kicking you in the junk all the time, you can build against it. But be prepared to be weak against something else. Which is why some of these dueling tournaments have rules aimed against changing gear and skills, etc. In any event, if you view it through that lens, its just an obvious rock to dps scissors.

There are plenty of other things they could do, like revert back to more health per state point or increasing base health, but that's an actual balance adjustment and not in line with rock/paper/scissors, so very unlikely to happen. Actual balance takes alot of work and does not make most people happy most of the time. If you ever played DAOC in the heyday, PvPers cried for ways to have balanced GvG, Mythic gave it to them, and then they cried for change because 2-3 groups beat the crap out of everyone else. So, under actual balance, most people are AP cows and all the "fun" is experienced by a small percentage of players. Rock/paper/scissors is one of the only counters to coordinated group play and makes people feel like they are good at something at least some of the time.

The key to an excellent game is to have both. Rock/paper/scissors in open warfare and actual balance in instanced group play. If we are lucky, ZoS will figure that out and add the missing part... But again, balance takes effort so not holding my breath.

Luigi_Vampa · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I don't remember any of you complaining when Stamblades were completely broken and everyone had to wear a skirt and wave a wooden stick to be competitive in Cyrodiil.
And yes, i was most likely the only Stamblade in PvP back then.
Y'all seemed perfectly fine with *that* meta.

I've never understood this argument. So, how long does stamina need to be OP before we can have balance? How much do us magicka users have to pay in reparations for balace to be achieved?

The argument is that people should complain about imbalance no matter if they benefit from the current meta or not.

Most people here don't seem to give a crap about actual balance when it's tilted in their favor ...

Who cares what people should do. Let me ask you this; should stam remain OP because magicka players didn't complain about the magicka meta last year?

Solus · October 2016

NobleNerd wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Are we just going to ignore the "screen capturing and cropping" capabilities of OP?

This is from SypherPK´s latest video right?? The screenshoot?

LOL Sypherpk - I think he is the only streamer left with decent numbers watching this game.

The more I keep seeing posts like this and the obvious lack of control on cheaters/hacks in the game the less I am tempted to even update and play it again.

There's KodiPVP too

aidenmoore · October 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka damage is still right now more powerfull and does more damage then stamina damage and skills.

Says no one ever.

SirAndy · October 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

Who cares what people should do. Let me ask you this; should stam remain OP because magicka players didn't complain about the magicka meta last year?

Your ignorance is part of the problem ...

Luigi_Vampa · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Who cares what people should do. Let me ask you this; should stam remain OP because magicka players didn't complain about the magicka meta last year?

Your ignorance is part of the problem ...

I just think we should avoid us vs them arguments because they don't help, but okay. Progress is never made when both sides harbor resentment against the other.

Lord_Eomer · October 2016

Lol, thread title gave me a good laugh..

Mic1007 · October 2016

Stamina and Magicka should be closely balanced through different means. For example, Stam should have more direct damage and snares, but less DoTs and roots. Magicka should have more AoE and sustained damage, but slightly less burst due the ranged factor. However, a 10k to 20k DPS difference is not fair by any means. At the end, both Stam and Magicka should be able to reach the same overall DPS and both should be able to compete well in Cyrodiil across all classes.

Acsvf · October 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Alucardo those have to be crits. At 3k weapon dmg and 20k stam they read (tooltip) approx 5.5k, at 40k stam and 4k dmg it should only read 6.5k (realistically) to 7k max.

After battle spirit etc there is no way that the tooltip reads 14k+ on ransack

Nope, if it reads 5.5k at those stats then at 40k and 4k wep damage they're

5500(40000+4000*10.45)/(3000*10.45+20000)= 8761 damage

SirAndy · October 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Who cares what people should do. Let me ask you this; should stam remain OP because magicka players didn't complain about the magicka meta last year?

Your ignorance is part of the problem ...

I just think we should avoid us vs them arguments because they don't help, but okay. Progress is never made when both sides harbor resentment against the other.

I have made many posts over the years with suggestions on how to balance the magicka/stamina divide.

Apparently, you didn't read any of them. Progress is never made when one assumes ...

Luigi_Vampa · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Who cares what people should do. Let me ask you this; should stam remain OP because magicka players didn't complain about the magicka meta last year?

Your ignorance is part of the problem ...

I just think we should avoid us vs them arguments because they don't help, but okay. Progress is never made when both sides harbor resentment against the other.

I have made many posts over the years with suggestions on how to balance the magicka/stamina divide.

Apparently, you didn't read any of them. Progress is never made when one assumes ...

I didn't assume anything and you're just being rude. I only said that arguing that magicka users didn't complain when they were OP is not relevant or helpful for if and how things should be balanced now. Bringing up the previous balance inequality doesn't help the current one. It isn't helpful to bring up what magicka users did and said when they were OP. It only matters how we proceed.

I apologize for not remembering every post you've made on these forums.

That is two post in a row where you just insulted me, so I won't be responding to you anymore.

SirAndy · October 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

Bringing up the previous balance inequality doesn't help the current one. It isn't helpful to bring up what magicka users did and said when they were OP. It only matters how we proceed.

I dis-agree. Without knowing the past, you can't change the future. It matters a lot how people have dealt with (or not) the imbalance in the past.

It's obvious my point is completely lost on you ...

Gilvoth · October 2016

Mic1007 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka damage is still right now more powerfull and does more damage then stamina damage and skills.

Living in early 2015, are we?

nothing has changed, magicka is still overpowered, theres a thread here on the forums talking about, no, excuse me, [Bragging] about 5700 spell damage. i see sorcerers and dragonights and templars killing people with thier magicka in a matter of a few seconds!
pvp is all about magicka and fire damage magicka based, the only thing that has changed since 2015 is that now stamina does more damage then we did back then, we are still behind when it comes to balance compared to magicka.
this is not a troll post nor a joke. i am serious.
and by the way. we are allowed to have our own opinions and judgements and post them here on this forum as long as it is not insulting others. and i have followed that rule.

neville_bart0s · October 2016

the problem with proc sets is that they take no skill and this game already has a pretty low skill ceiling. they need to rework the proc sets and add some skill to them, make viper proc on bash or something, make velidreth proc after you land x amount of heavy attcks or whatever, just add some more skill to the game beacuse right now all you need is 3 proc sets and some lingering health potions and you can do some serious work in PVP.

Wreuntzylla · October 2016

neville_bart0s wrote: »

the problem with proc sets is that they take no skill and this game already has a pretty low skill ceiling. they need to rework the proc sets and add some skill to them, make viper proc on bash or something, make velidreth proc after you land x amount of heavy attcks or whatever, just add some more skill to the game beacuse right now all you need is 3 proc sets and some lingering health potions and you can do some serious work in PVP.

Right. So low in fact that the proc sets haven't changed the skill ceiling at all.

Hold on tight, boys. ZoS already said they intend to make health a more useful stat. They might change procs that proc other procs. Maybe.

Trichant prices already rising...

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO · October 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

I don't remember any of you complaining when Stamblades were completely broken and everyone had to wear a skirt and wave a wooden stick to be competitive in Cyrodiil.

And yes, i was most likely the only Stamblade in PvP back then.

Y'all seemed perfectly fine with *that* meta.

No one liked elder skirts online not even magika builds. We just want balance

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO · October 2016

[img][/img]

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

magicka damage is still right now more powerfull and does more damage then stamina damage and skills.

Living in early 2015, are we?

nothing has changed, magicka is still overpowered, theres a thread here on the forums talking about, no, excuse me, [Bragging] about 5700 spell damage. i see sorcerers and dragonights and templars killing people with thier magicka in a matter of a few seconds!
pvp is all about magicka and fire damage magicka based, the only thing that has changed since 2015 is that now stamina does more damage then we did back then, we are still behind when it comes to balance compared to magicka.
this is not a troll post nor a joke. i am serious.
and by the way. we are allowed to have our own opinions and judgements and post them here on this forum as long as it is not insulting others. and i have followed that rule.

You actually made me laugh