Here's Why I Think One-Shot Mechanics and More HP is a good thing.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

One shotting and millions of hp bosses are still only covering up the fundamental flaw of this game that consists of no caps and a stack and burn meta that has been here since forever.

And while large hp pools don't bother me too much, I'm not a fan of the various one shotting mechanisms at all. I find them stressful, punishing, and many people will make you feel horrible if you die to them even once or twice.

If I were to redesign the dungeons and their mechanisms, I would focus a lot more on the importance of tactics and intelligent setup.

We have so many different ways to spec now, and it's sort of "anything goes, max DPS is most important". I would rather see some dungeons having heavy resistances. Some to physical, some to fire, some to frost etc. I'm even saying this as a magDK whose only attacks are flame. Everyone has a possibility to switch a few skills around and have an entirely new setup. With my magdk I could use those class skills that are not fire based, I could switch for a frost or lightning staff and use my weapon line, I could eqip a resto staff and go offhealing etc.

Other dungeons would have heavy crit resistances, some would have very high physical resistances, or spell resistances (requiring high penetration), while others would have very little (meaning high penetration would be wasted here). Some would require mostly aoe's while others would require mostly single targets.

The possibilities are many, and with a set up that was more in favour of intelligent tactics and skill/weapon swapping, you would actually have to change your setup for the various dungeons and trials, instead of perhaps changing 1 or 2 skills around at most, and go with your usual 2 bar 5 skill rotation in each and every dungeon in this game. The variety alone would make for a much more enjoyable experience for me than various hoop jumping mechanisms or one shotters.

Vet dungeons and vet content should be punishing. I believe that is the point of end-game. No caps and burn meta have little to nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I think you went off on your own tangent about what you'd like to see implemented.

To argue against you, having dungeons with high crit resistances or any resistances at all would render some people useless. They can't respec right there, or maybe they dont want to change around their CP if a random dungeon pops. Some DKs can only use disease, and others can only use flame. What? Have a flame DK with a flame set, carry around a frost staff? NO thanks.

EDIT: People would not only have to carry around new sets that avoid crit or any damage proc at all (flame sets specifically) and people would be constantly learning and re-learning their rotations. Why not just learn to block and dodge roll?

There are different means of achieving "punishment" One shot mechanism and circus hhoop jumping, like Cradle and Velidreth, isn't the only one, you know. And judging from the response, many people don't like those mechanisms either, especially when you spice it up with RNG mazes.

Accept that some people disagree with you. I don't like one shotting mechanisms. I find them stressful, and I play this game to relax, not to be stressed out. Not all of us are adrenaline junkies, and I would like to advocate for a system that required more deliberate thought in terms of finding out your own builds strengths and weaknesses, the strengths of weaknesses of various dungeons, and then matching those. I mean, when was the last time someone ever changed their skills, gear or rotation out for anything? You wear the same gear and use the same skills and rotation for pretty much everything in this game. It's boring.

Go play anything DnD based, there's a gaming system that knew how to apply that (Baldur's Gate etc).

And caps and burn meta has everything to do with what you write here. If it weren't for this, we wouldn't have seen all the inflated HP pools and 1-shot mechanisms and Hist dungeon mechanics overload, as it wouldn't have been necessary without it.

And no, it would not render "some people useless" That's hyperbole and just plain wrong. I play as a MagDK, I know what I'm talking about. Yet, even if a boss had 100 % flame immunity, I bet you I could change stuff around somewhat easily and still be of use. Not all my skills are flame based, some deal magic damage. You switch your flame staff out for a frost or lightning, and suddenly you have an entire weapon line not flame based. It's even easier for other classes and stam builds that have more options.

Yes, it would require you to perhaps look into mroe sets than chasing the same 2-3 BiS over and over again.

Yes, it would mean you had to explore some skills and setups you usually scoff at as useless, since perhaps they might just have some use against specific enemies.

Yes, it would mean changing your skill bar around every now and then, instead of relying on the same old rotation that your fingers know in your sleep.

And yes, I believe that would be a much more interesting system, and provide more variation than what we see now.
And it wouldn't even require HP pools through the roof or 1-shot mechanisms.

PS: and before someone goes off into their knee-jerk "l2p" response to everything, I do know how to play, and how to avoid one shots in this game. VoM last boss is among the easiest ones, really. I farmed there 10+ times a day last couple of days. Just because I know how to "l2p" most dungeons, and are actually decent at it, doesn't mean I find it entertaining or fun at all.

My problem with this isn't that it disagrees with me - it is that this ONLY addresses changes with DPS. Tanks can still taunt (and ALL tanks do mostly physical damage), and healers can still spam heal the entire group through a run, even if a team of 4-fire mages goes into the flame immune CoA / Blessed Crucible runs.

Templar: "Okay everyone, I see that you're fire so just heavy and light attack while I heal you through the dungeon. Since there are no one-shot mechanics and they have 1 mil health, we can get this done."

I like the caps idea, I liked it when it was here. I'm not disagreeing with that. But....

This is the model we were given. And this is why I think they gave it to us (see original post).

runagate · October 2016

mrs_gibbs wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

There was a VO stam DD (who died once) that said "Wow, they added new mechanics to this fight? Awesome!" I laughed telling him there were no new mechanics, he was just used to burning the boss before it ever got a chance to appear.

I thought you were talking about me for a second. lol. I ran this a couple days ago and seen the glass shatter and ghosts for the first time. I had NO idea that boss had those mechanics. I thought they added them with One Tamriel. There were really cool! Probably my favorite attack in the game now.

Easily my favorite visual effect in the game. I always used to ask people to let it occur so I could watch it.

DHale · October 2016

One shot mechanis are just lazy game design. The QA team know the mechanic and short cuts.... we have to find them. By the time people learn them ther undaunted is nine and they have their gear they won't be teaching others and won't be back. Now pretty much even as a tank I can't find pledge groups and t1 just dropped for the PC crowd for certain dungeons. People don't want to spend two hours running a single pledge. Dire frost vet 1 boss can heal to full off her aoe. Then you have to start over. It's not the difficulty it's just not that fun.

Dymence · October 2016

Carbonised wrote: »

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

One shotting and millions of hp bosses are still only covering up the fundamental flaw of this game that consists of no caps and a stack and burn meta that has been here since forever.

And while large hp pools don't bother me too much, I'm not a fan of the various one shotting mechanisms at all. I find them stressful, punishing, and many people will make you feel horrible if you die to them even once or twice.

If I were to redesign the dungeons and their mechanisms, I would focus a lot more on the importance of tactics and intelligent setup.

We have so many different ways to spec now, and it's sort of "anything goes, max DPS is most important". I would rather see some dungeons having heavy resistances. Some to physical, some to fire, some to frost etc. I'm even saying this as a magDK whose only attacks are flame. Everyone has a possibility to switch a few skills around and have an entirely new setup. With my magdk I could use those class skills that are not fire based, I could switch for a frost or lightning staff and use my weapon line, I could eqip a resto staff and go offhealing etc.

Other dungeons would have heavy crit resistances, some would have very high physical resistances, or spell resistances (requiring high penetration), while others would have very little (meaning high penetration would be wasted here). Some would require mostly aoe's while others would require mostly single targets.

The possibilities are many, and with a set up that was more in favour of intelligent tactics and skill/weapon swapping, you would actually have to change your setup for the various dungeons and trials, instead of perhaps changing 1 or 2 skills around at most, and go with your usual 2 bar 5 skill rotation in each and every dungeon in this game. The variety alone would make for a much more enjoyable experience for me than various hoop jumping mechanisms or one shotters.

Vet dungeons and vet content should be punishing. I believe that is the point of end-game. No caps and burn meta have little to nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I think you went off on your own tangent about what you'd like to see implemented.

To argue against you, having dungeons with high crit resistances or any resistances at all would render some people useless. They can't respec right there, or maybe they dont want to change around their CP if a random dungeon pops. Some DKs can only use disease, and others can only use flame. What? Have a flame DK with a flame set, carry around a frost staff? NO thanks.

EDIT: People would not only have to carry around new sets that avoid crit or any damage proc at all (flame sets specifically) and people would be constantly learning and re-learning their rotations. Why not just learn to block and dodge roll?

There are different means of achieving "punishment" One shot mechanism and circus hhoop jumping, like Cradle and Velidreth, isn't the only one, you know. And judging from the response, many people don't like those mechanisms either, especially when you spice it up with RNG mazes.

Accept that some people disagree with you. I don't like one shotting mechanisms. I find them stressful, and I play this game to relax, not to be stressed out. Not all of us are adrenaline junkies, and I would like to advocate for a system that required more deliberate thought in terms of finding out your own builds strengths and weaknesses, the strengths of weaknesses of various dungeons, and then matching those. I mean, when was the last time someone ever changed their skills, gear or rotation out for anything? You wear the same gear and use the same skills and rotation for pretty much everything in this game. It's boring.

Go play anything DnD based, there's a gaming system that knew how to apply that (Baldur's Gate etc).

And caps and burn meta has everything to do with what you write here. If it weren't for this, we wouldn't have seen all the inflated HP pools and 1-shot mechanisms and Hist dungeon mechanics overload, as it wouldn't have been necessary without it.

And no, it would not render "some people useless" That's hyperbole and just plain wrong. I play as a MagDK, I know what I'm talking about. Yet, even if a boss had 100 % flame immunity, I bet you I could change stuff around somewhat easily and still be of use. Not all my skills are flame based, some deal magic damage. You switch your flame staff out for a frost or lightning, and suddenly you have an entire weapon line not flame based. It's even easier for other classes and stam builds that have more options.

Yes, it would require you to perhaps look into mroe sets than chasing the same 2-3 BiS over and over again.

Yes, it would mean you had to explore some skills and setups you usually scoff at as useless, since perhaps they might just have some use against specific enemies.

Yes, it would mean changing your skill bar around every now and then, instead of relying on the same old rotation that your fingers know in your sleep.

And yes, I believe that would be a much more interesting system, and provide more variation than what we see now.
And it wouldn't even require HP pools through the roof or 1-shot mechanisms.

PS: and before someone goes off into their knee-jerk "l2p" response to everything, I do know how to play, and how to avoid one shots in this game. VoM last boss is among the easiest ones, really. I farmed there 10+ times a day last couple of days. Just because I know how to "l2p" most dungeons, and are actually decent at it, doesn't mean I find it entertaining or fun at all.

Let me get this straight.

You truly believe your proposed system would be less punishing than the current system of the occasional oneshot?

Really? Having to farm several different sets and invest a ton of gold in it simply to be viable in every single dungeon, rather than simply learning when to dodgeroll is your idea of less punishing?

I'm at a loss for words on this one...

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

DHale wrote: »

One shot mechanis are just lazy game design. The QA team know the mechanic and short cuts.... we have to find them. By the time people learn them ther undaunted is nine and they have their gear they won't be teaching others and won't be back. Now pretty much even as a tank I can't find pledge groups and t1 just dropped for the PC crowd for certain dungeons. People don't want to spend two hours running a single pledge. Dire frost vet 1 boss can heal to full off her aoe. Then you have to start over. It's not the difficulty it's just not that fun.

It's not an aoe, its a channeled attack that requires the victim to stun break. And if she heals to full, it's clearly "difficult", and your group does not know how to save a little stam in order to break the CC.

And if you're a tank, you should be finding groups left and right, as a healer - I find a group EVERY SINGLE day with ease that runs if not all 3 pledges, at least 2 of them - all of which, we have completed since 1 Tam.

idk · October 2016

DHale wrote: »

One shot mechanis are just lazy game design. The QA team know the mechanic and short cuts.... we have to find them. By the time people learn them ther undaunted is nine and they have their gear they won't be teaching others and won't be back. Now pretty much even as a tank I can't find pledge groups and t1 just dropped for the PC crowd for certain dungeons. People don't want to spend two hours running a single pledge. Dire frost vet 1 boss can heal to full off her aoe. Then you have to start over. It's not the difficulty it's just not that fun.

@DHale

One shot mechanics are just that. Mechanics. They are not hard to figure out after being killed by them once or twice. Often blocking or moving is all that is required for survival. Sometimes a bash/interupt is needed and what is amazing is everyone in the game has an interupt.

It's not lazy design to make a mechanic so that players cannot ignore it.

Potenza · October 2016

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

First boss of VoM has a "dps-link" ability. If the DPS continue to burn, the linked person will die. Period. In order to get the, Survivor Achievement, the dps gotta learn to look for that and stop. Same way PVPers don't use certain abilities if a tank is reflecting. Same thing for the first boss on Arx Corinium. He heals based on damage done.

So... regardless, the DD MUST stop.

EDIT: as a healer, I've even been flamed on for not being able to heal through this dps-link ability. When the boss, 1 tank, and 2 dps are all siphoning damage into 1 person, it's simply unheal-able.

Potenza · October 2016

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

First boss of VoM has a "dps-link" ability. If the DPS continue to burn, the linked person will die. Period. In order to get the, Survivor Achievement, the dps gotta learn to look for that and stop. Same way PVPers don't use certain abilities if a tank is reflecting. Same thing for the first boss on Arx Corinium. He heals based on damage done.

So... regardless, the DD MUST stop.

EDIT: as a healer, I've even been flamed on for not being able to heal through this dps-link ability. When the boss, 1 tank, and 2 dps are all siphoning damage into 1 person, it's simply unheal-able.

No don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. The DD needs to adjust to the mechanics. Its just that the final number for DD's overall DPS is going to be lower and people are going to flame him because it took "too long" to kill and the dps is "low".
That is where some of the problem lies.

NBrookus · October 2016

I ran VoM the day 1T dropped, and I had honestly never seen the final boss mechanic before. I died, someone said "stay in" and the next time I stayed in the bubble and it was the other one and died again.

It's a very fun and cool visual and not hard to avoid once you know it.

I am not, however, a fan of one-shot mechanics that can't be mitigated. They should all be able to be interrupted or something similar to prevent the group from being one-shotted.

As for the age of glass cannons being over -- if a 30k health, 32k resist tank holding block can't survive a mechanic, DDs adding some health isn't going to be the solution. And a tank with super-high health doesn't have enough magicka or stamina to maintain taunting, CCs, bash interrupting and mob control: i.e. do their job.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

NBrookus wrote: »

I ran VoM the day 1T dropped, and I had honestly never seen the final boss mechanic before. I died, someone said "stay in" and the next time I stayed in the bubble and it was the other one and died again. It's a very fun and cool visual and not hard to avoid once you know it.

I am not, however, a fan of one-shot mechanics that can't be mitigated. They should all be able to be interrupted or something similar to prevent the group from being one-shotted.

As for the age of glass cannons being over -- if a 30k health, 32k resist tank holding block can't survive a mechanic, DDs adding some health isn't going to be the solution. And a tank with super-high health doesn't have enough magicka or stamina to maintain taunting, CCs, bash interrupting and mob control: i.e. do their job.

The tank doesn't need to be the one to stop every 1-shot mechanic. The DPS can learn to dodge-roll (more difficult) or at the very least block (less difficult). I don't think that's too much to ask.

itehache · October 2016

I also like the new health and "one shot" abilities.
I used to run normal dungeons not even paying attention to what was going on, just to get the keys. Now I actually need to be careful not to die and the game became more fun.
They will nerf them though, I can't remember where I read it but one od the devs said that they made them more difficult than intended.

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

2 points

1.) I appreciate the mechanics now of the normal dungeons a bit more,honestly I'm guilty of burning through them.BTW the mad architect's mechanics are hands down awesome!!! It feels like an epic fight.

2.) One shot mechanics I think are a reminder to players from the devs,that the age of glass cannons is coming to an end.I can't reccomend enough to these guys to slot harness magicka.

Agreed. I love the feel of the more epic fights.

I don't want one shot mechanics to exist just to test your dodge-roll, that stuff kind of pisses me off as a MAG healer/DPS. What is fun is when we have a MULTITUDE of tools to counter an action. I also wish they would make encounters hard enough where we would really see a benefit in buffs and debuffs as well.

It would also be more fun to have more skill slots so you can make instant decisions on skills to use.

The developers are very much on the right track, but it could be so much better.

What I DO NOT LIKE are elements of luck playing into encounters, or expecting an entire group to run a string of complex tasks all perfectly coordinated. Keep things within reason.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

As a tank one shot mechanics are pure ***. Oh you have a maxxed out char? Here have a instakill to make your armour meaningless.

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As a tank one shot mechanics are pure ***. Oh you have a maxxed out char? Here have a instakill to make your armour meaningless.

Well they are avoidable....

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

DHale wrote: »

One shot mechanis are just lazy game design. The QA team know the mechanic and short cuts.... we have to find them. By the time people learn them ther undaunted is nine and they have their gear they won't be teaching others and won't be back. Now pretty much even as a tank I can't find pledge groups and t1 just dropped for the PC crowd for certain dungeons. People don't want to spend two hours running a single pledge. Dire frost vet 1 boss can heal to full off her aoe. Then you have to start over. It's not the difficulty it's just not that fun.

Yeah this two hours for running a pledge should not happen. If they make everything LONG like ICP very few people will play it.

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

Because really bad DPS is now very very annoying. I am happy to help people out, but sometimes it's just too far. Last night I had a group (vCoA1) with two 400+ DPS. They were both AWFUL. One was a NB in heavy armor light attacking with an occasional acid spray nearly the whole run. The other was a MAG SORC in heavy mostly just doing force pulse. Anyway, the tank and didn't DPS the last boss at all to see how long it would take. It took 17 minutes for the DPS to kill the final boss in vCoA 1.

IMO, that is just ridiculous. People like that should ONLY be playing normal. If you want to play like you want that's fine, but stick to normal if it makes it crappy for the rest of us.

Praeficere · October 2016

Drummerx04 wrote: »

A valid point, but I wonder if the same one shot mechanic mentality should also apply to full mitigated tanks holding block with 32k health and still dying instantly (selene bear attack).

I suppose in the end expecting the tank to actually dodge a few attacks isn't super unreasonable either, but still. The Possessed Mantikora in vSO - a 12 man veteran trial - doesn't hit as hard as Selene in a 4 man dungeon.

You have a few seconds to side step the bear, there's a lot of telegraph. If you're sleeping during the final boss of any Veteran content you should die.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

Because really bad DPS is now very very annoying. I am happy to help people out, but sometimes it's just too far. Last night I had a group (vCoA1) with two 400+ DPS. They were both AWFUL. One was a NB in heavy armor light attacking with an occasional acid spray nearly the whole run. The other was a MAG SORC in heavy mostly just doing force pulse. Anyway, the tank and didn't DPS the last boss at all to see how long it would take. It took 17 minutes for the DPS to kill the final boss in vCoA 1.

IMO, that is just ridiculous. People like that should ONLY be playing normal. If you want to play like you want that's fine, but stick to normal if it makes it crappy for the rest of us.

Let's address the topic not bring an anecdote about a bad run you had. You had 2 dps in heavy, you should've thought, "I bet this story definitely doesn't apply here."

But, I'm sure you'll have a reply for that.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As a tank one shot mechanics are pure ***. Oh you have a maxxed out char? Here have a instakill to make your armour meaningless.

Well they are avoidable....

The amount of times a lamia scream has suprised me...

Merlight · October 2016

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

Bosses with millions of health-points:
Why would they do this? Because we meta-gamed so ridiculously hard, that most players simply burned through every boss, and had no idea what-the-f--k mechanics were.

Because ZOS started the idiotic spiral of unlimited power creep with 1.6. Now they're just going to waste resources on adjusting numbers every few updates instead of fixing broken design.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Merlight wrote: »

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

Bosses with millions of health-points:
Why would they do this? Because we meta-gamed so ridiculously hard, that most players simply burned through every boss, and had no idea what-the-f--k mechanics were.

Because ZOS started the idiotic spiral of unlimited power creep with 1.6. Now they're just going to waste resources on adjusting numbers every few updates instead of fixing broken design.

WTB constructive criticism instead of regular criticism.

Xsorus · October 2016

VCoS draconus guy is just silly, he'll one shot me even when he's not next to me a lot of times...Frankly that's the most annoying one shot i've seen.

Things like the Whisperer give an indication at least....that guy just *** spins and instant kills me through 55k HP and 25k Blazing Shield.

Alpheu5 · October 2016

I once had to tell the other DD to stop hitting the first boss of Arx Corinium when he coiled up, because by him staying in range and meleeing, the snake's healing was negating both our DPS efforts. It's sad that all these interesting mechanics were completely ignored before, and now even some max level players that have done the dungeon dozens of times have to get the most basic mechanics explained to them.

"Dodge when you see lightning flowing up his tail."

"Go to the little snake's orb when she says 'Hide from my song'."

"Get out of the middle red circle at all costs."

"Block if the lurcher puts a beam on you."

"Keep the boss in the water but stay on the land. Stand here to avoid the falling rocks. No, no, stay on the shore, she has to stay in the water. Get out of the shout cone. Why are YOU standing in the water and SHE is on the land? Guys she gets a shield when she's out of the water. Stand here to avoid the rocks! GUYS SHE HAS TO STAY IN THE WATER!!! GHRARRGHHHHH"

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

Alpheu5 wrote: »

I once had to tell the other DD to stop hitting the first boss of Arx Corinium when he coiled up, because by him staying in range and meleeing, the snake's healing was negating both our DPS efforts. It's sad that all these interesting mechanics were completely ignored before, and now even some max level players that have done the dungeon dozens of times have to get the most basic mechanics explained to them.

"Dodge when you see lightning flowing up his tail."

"Go to the little snake's orb when she says 'Hide from my song'."

"Get out of the middle red circle at all costs."

"Block if the lurcher puts a beam on you."

"Keep the boss in the water but stay on the land. Stand here to avoid the falling rocks. No, no, stay on the shore, she has to stay in the water. Get out of the shout cone. Why are YOU standing in the water and SHE is on the land? Guys she gets a shield when she's out of the water. Stand here to avoid the rocks! GUYS SHE HAS TO STAY IN THE WATER!!! GHRARRGHHHHH"

"IF HE'S SAYING SHARE MY PAIN THEN WHAT THE F--K DO YOU THINK YOU'RE SHARING."

Etc. etc. etc.

idk · October 2016

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

@j.murro2ub17

Dps are required to move while fighting in every boss fight for vMoL. Additionally, that dps needs to be aware of what is occurring around him and to his character during each of those boss fights.

A single dps that is not paying attention to anything but his rotation can seriously hinder the group clearing the boss and can even kill many in the group in two differnt fights. Oh, and many of the deaths that can occur in vMoL due to a single player not paying attention of missing a queue for a mechanic are one shots.

A solid dps can can move and be aware of what is going on around him/her while dealing the damage.

Edit: a great mechanic for trial boss fights would be a reflective shield going up around the boss where we have to stop damage or kill ourselves but have some requirement during that phase that must occur to get the shield down.

Soleya · October 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

Because really bad DPS is now very very annoying. I am happy to help people out, but sometimes it's just too far. Last night I had a group (vCoA1) with two 400+ DPS. They were both AWFUL. One was a NB in heavy armor light attacking with an occasional acid spray nearly the whole run. The other was a MAG SORC in heavy mostly just doing force pulse. Anyway, the tank and didn't DPS the last boss at all to see how long it would take. It took 17 minutes for the DPS to kill the final boss in vCoA 1.

IMO, that is just ridiculous. People like that should ONLY be playing normal. If you want to play like you want that's fine, but stick to normal if it makes it crappy for the rest of us.

At least your healer wasn't using a bow and light attacking with it in every fight.

Yes that actually happened to my wife, friend and myself once with a 4th pug healer.

WhiteMage · October 2016

One of the reasons there has to be 1-shot mechanics is because healers are too powerful. With the touch of a button, I can immediately heal two players to full health, with a heal that intelligently selects the two lowest heal players that I don't even have to be facing. Such a super powerful heal doesn't come to me with a long cool down or massive price, it's just so much bang for my buck in almost any other circumstance it would be unfair. That is one of the major problems with ESO. Power creep has come to our heals. I can cast this heal in half a second's notice so in order to make healing any semblance of challenging, in order for there to be the slightest threat of failure enemies must be able to kill a group member in under half a second. 1-shots fit this nicely.

In the current state of (upper end-)game, we NEED 1-shots. This is a symptom of a very big problem, and it has a side-effect of siphoning depth from the game. Here's what healing should be: a full-time position where the designated healer must devote his energies to healing the group members constantly or the group WILL fail. How is this done? Well, it's actually very simple. Heals must be weak. Raising someone to full health must be a time-consuming process (read: longer than .5 seconds) where it is possible to speed that process up with strong heals but with a proportionate mana cost that poses a serious threat to our ability to maintain healing. Mobs can have piddly damage only if we have piddly heals to counter with; in fact, because our heals are so powerful, the dungeon crew decided the needed to ramp up the damage in dungeons.

If you try a normal dungeon with sub-par-geared lowbie, you will be able to see just how big the power gap is between the very top (which can solo that dungeon) and the very bottom/beginning point for new players (who many take an hour on that dungeon). I'd argue that the power gap has become far too great.

SirCritical · October 2016

Drummerx04 wrote: »

A valid point, but I wonder if the same one shot mechanic mentality should also apply to full mitigated tanks holding block with 32k health and still dying instantly (selene bear attack).

While this is quite off-topic in this thread, I have a thought that maybe the damage of Selene's bear-attack depends on the armor rating of the attacked char. Because I, a tank, in full heavy with buff died instantly when I was blocking (with full stam a blocking enchants etc.) while I clearly saw some bear attacks againts our light armored DPS, who just survived.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

One of the reasons there has to be 1-shot mechanics is because healers are too powerful. With the touch of a button, I can immediately heal two players to full health, with a heal that intelligently selects the two lowest heal players that I don't even have to be facing. Such a super powerful heal doesn't come to me with a long cool down or massive price, it's just so much bang for my buck in almost any other circumstance it would be unfair. That is one of the major problems with ESO. Power creep has come to our heals. I can cast this heal in half a second's notice so in order to make healing any semblance of challenging, in order for there to be the slightest threat of failure enemies must be able to kill a group member in under half a second. 1-shots fit this nicely.

In the current state of (upper end-)game, we NEED 1-shots. This is a symptom of a very big problem, and it has a side-effect of siphoning depth from the game. Here's what healing should be: a full-time position where the designated healer must devote his energies to healing the group members constantly or the group WILL fail. How is this done? Well, it's actually very simple. Heals must be weak. Raising someone to full health must be a time-consuming process (read: longer than .5 seconds) where it is possible to speed that process up with strong heals but with a proportionate mana cost that poses a serious threat to our ability to maintain healing. Mobs can have piddly damage only if we have piddly heals to counter with; in fact, because our heals are so powerful, the dungeon crew decided the needed to ramp up the damage in dungeons.

If you try a normal dungeon with sub-par-geared lowbie, you will be able to see just how big the power gap is between the very top (which can solo that dungeon) and the very bottom/beginning point for new players (who many take an hour on that dungeon). I'd argue that the power gap has become far too great.

This is a very valid point, as well. Thank you for your input, and I agree that healing should be a full-time job.

Currently it's maybe 25% of my job if the tank/dps don't have self heals or health absorption.