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A fair PVP Justice System concept
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Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AzraelKrieg wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »XDragonDoomX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Stop trying to stop people from farming their daily easy gold. It upsets them.
As opposed to farming easy targets ?
I would agree with you but even when a proposal is put forward where people would knowingly accept pvp and it would in no way affect players who didnt want to pvp, in come all the replies about ganking and exploits.
This is simply a case of people who dont like pvp dont want it in their areas. There is no reason other then We dont like pvp. So they make up ones. Oh gankers, oh pvp forced on me! Even when people come uo ways to avoid these.
These people should just come out and say I dont want pvp in my area, nothing you can say will change that. Atleast then we know where they stand. But they would rather just troll.
Mind you that some of these reasons are perfectly legitimate.. Also notice that only 1 person has used ganking as an excuse in this thread, so calm down on the offensive
And when it comes to trolling, no side in this discussion can point fingers
Ahh calm down the offensive?XDragonDoomX wrote: »No.
If I want pvp, I go to Cyrodiil. I don't want to be railroaded into PvP - The Thieves Guild has daily quests, not even the scouting quests in Cyro force you into PvP if you accept one.AzraelKrieg wrote: »Forcing PvP in PvE again. The enforcers would camp out at refuge doors and accost the people with bounties.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and dieDoctordarkspawn wrote: »This still tells people who paid money for thieves guild outright that playing them is PVP.
No.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and die
Because some people will continue to advocate for gank fodder no matter how dead and decaying the horse gets.
Some of those posted without even reading the idea. I am apparently not the only one who needs to calm down the offensive.
I read the idea. It is still forcing PvP into PvE regardless of how you look at it. Dueling is up to player discretion. I have it turned off because I don't want to participate in it unless I feel like doing so. Stealing and killing on the other hand are linked to guild quests and even then that's a pain. Adding in another layer on top of that that could lead to griefing will make the game toxic.
I'm curious then
When you have to take a specific item, and say yes to a prompt, how is it forcing to you? 1 -
AndyTGD✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
Care to make more than assertions and actually read/interact with what I've said?
I really appreciate the folks who have interacted with the idea. It certainly helps flesh out the ideas better and allows me, at least, to form substantive ideas about these topics in my head. What have you offered Korah, with the exception of a blatent ad hominem on my character (i.e. arrogance, believing that I am smarter than everyone else- I am most assuredly not, as demonstrated by XDragonDoomX's excellent critiques), followed by an assertion which has literally nothing whatsoever to do with my proposal?0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax2 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
I'm not sure I see it the same way.. The previously suggested systems where a bounty could auto-enable PvP justice was indeed bad.. But here you grab a specific item and get an information prompt, telling you that this will be PvP if you continue.. To me, that equals going into Cyrodill.. If you say yes (like walking into Cyrodill), you say yes to PvP.. Then you should know what you sign up for.. You can freely walk away.. But if you go on, you have freely signed up for the whole experience0 -
Taternater✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
It wouldn't be a gank fest. From what I understand there are specific items that spawn randomly in random locations. When a thief tries to pick it up, a prompt opens with a warning and the player then chooses whether to accept. If you don't like combat oriented pvp, then don't pick it up. If you do like combat oriented pvp then you can probably fend off "gankers" and probably have ganked yourself.0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »XDragonDoomX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Stop trying to stop people from farming their daily easy gold. It upsets them.
As opposed to farming easy targets ?
I would agree with you but even when a proposal is put forward where people would knowingly accept pvp and it would in no way affect players who didnt want to pvp, in come all the replies about ganking and exploits.
This is simply a case of people who dont like pvp dont want it in their areas. There is no reason other then We dont like pvp. So they make up ones. Oh gankers, oh pvp forced on me! Even when people come uo ways to avoid these.
These people should just come out and say I dont want pvp in my area, nothing you can say will change that. Atleast then we know where they stand. But they would rather just troll.
Mind you that some of these reasons are perfectly legitimate.. Also notice that only 1 person has used ganking as an excuse in this thread, so calm down on the offensive And when it comes to trolling, no side in this discussion can point fingers
Ahh calm down the offensive?XDragonDoomX wrote: »No.
If I want pvp, I go to Cyrodiil. I don't want to be railroaded into PvP - The Thieves Guild has daily quests, not even the scouting quests in Cyro force you into PvP if you accept one.AzraelKrieg wrote: »Forcing PvP in PvE again. The enforcers would camp out at refuge doors and accost the people with bounties.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and dieDoctordarkspawn wrote: »This still tells people who paid money for thieves guild outright that playing them is PVP.
No.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and die
Because some people will continue to advocate for gank fodder no matter how dead and decaying the horse gets.
Some of those posted without even reading the idea. I am apparently not the only one who needs to calm down the offensive.
Read so many threads ideas on this that it now has got boring , it seems to me that the many don't want this yet people keep trying to flog a dead horse0 -
AndyTGD✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
Again, there is no 'masqurading as PvE'. Under my proposal, one is notified of the risks and the PvP nature of taking the special item. No one has to do it, unless you have such crippling OCD that you can't bare not to pilfer the item "I simply must pick up that item!! I mussssst!!"
You enter into it knowing the risks and because you want to have fun evading other players, getting one over on them. Consequently, you are rewarded by a thrilling hunt, followed by a little financial incentive. You don't have to involve yourself with this aspect at all if you hate it, in the same way that you don't have to go for Emperor if you don't want to. And the people who do, can determine whether their specs are up to doing something like this, meaning they are likely to actually be PvP players who want a bit of PvP as they go about their PvE questing fun. 0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here is the thing with an optional system, if enough people are going to opt out, then what good is it to use resources and time to develop something that most people will not use?
I can't think of anyone, unless they are a dedicated PvP player, who would opt into a system of any kind that allows a PvP response to PvE activities if they have a way to opt out. Sure, their might be a few out there, but based on all the threads we have on this, most PvE people don't want a PvP justice system.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"4 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here is the thing with an optional system, if enough people are going to opt out, then what good is it to use resources and time to develop something that most people will not use?
I can't think of anyone, unless they are a dedicated PvP player, who would opt into a system of any kind that allows a PvP response to PvE activities if they have a way to opt out. Sure, their might be a few out there, but based on all the threads we have on this, most PvE people don't want a PvP justice system.
Thanks couldn't have put this better0 -
AndyTGD✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »XDragonDoomX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Stop trying to stop people from farming their daily easy gold. It upsets them.
As opposed to farming easy targets ?
I would agree with you but even when a proposal is put forward where people would knowingly accept pvp and it would in no way affect players who didnt want to pvp, in come all the replies about ganking and exploits.
This is simply a case of people who dont like pvp dont want it in their areas. There is no reason other then We dont like pvp. So they make up ones. Oh gankers, oh pvp forced on me! Even when people come uo ways to avoid these.
These people should just come out and say I dont want pvp in my area, nothing you can say will change that. Atleast then we know where they stand. But they would rather just troll.
Mind you that some of these reasons are perfectly legitimate.. Also notice that only 1 person has used ganking as an excuse in this thread, so calm down on the offensive And when it comes to trolling, no side in this discussion can point fingers
Ahh calm down the offensive?XDragonDoomX wrote: »No.
If I want pvp, I go to Cyrodiil. I don't want to be railroaded into PvP - The Thieves Guild has daily quests, not even the scouting quests in Cyro force you into PvP if you accept one.AzraelKrieg wrote: »Forcing PvP in PvE again. The enforcers would camp out at refuge doors and accost the people with bounties.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and dieDoctordarkspawn wrote: »This still tells people who paid money for thieves guild outright that playing them is PVP.
No.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and die
Because some people will continue to advocate for gank fodder no matter how dead and decaying the horse gets.
Some of those posted without even reading the idea. I am apparently not the only one who needs to calm down the offensive.
Read so many threads ideas on this that it now has got boring , it seems to me that the many don't want this yet people keep trying to flog a dead horse
It seems to me that some people are so painfully closed-minded that they don't even bother interacting with folks on the other side and instead attempt to dismiss them with a pithy and generally irrelevant "flogging a dead horse" comment. Its kinda fun to bounce ideas off one another, heck its not like ZOS is going to jump into this thread and go "Yes! We're going to do this!". I just don't get why folks are so afraid of a little playful theorising. There's far too much emotion on this topic, its not like I'm suggesting burning someone's national flag or something.2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
Again, there is no 'masqurading as PvE'. Under my proposal, one is notified of the risks and the PvP nature of taking the special item. No one has to do it, unless you have such crippling OCD that you can't bare not to pilfer the item "I simply must pick up that item!! I mussssst!!"
You enter into it knowing the risks and because you want to have fun evading other players, getting one over on them. Consequently, you are rewarded by a thrilling hunt, followed by a little financial incentive. You don't have to involve yourself with this aspect at all if you hate it, in the same way that you don't have to go for Emperor if you don't want to. And the people who do, can determine whether their specs are up to doing something like this, meaning they are likely to actually be PvP players who want a bit of PvP as they go about their PvE questing fun.
Again, not as clever as you think you are. Veteran players are going to jump through the hoops. But the players that your glorious defenders of justice are going to target? Those who cant actually defend themselves and just happen to be lacking knowledge of the game and this mechanic. And since its an MMO youll always have a newb to pounce on and teach them a valuable lesson in justice.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here is the thing with an optional system, if enough people are going to opt out, then what good is it to use resources and time to develop something that most people will not use?
I can't think of anyone, unless they are a dedicated PvP player, who would opt into a system of any kind that allows a PvP response to PvE activities if they have a way to opt out. Sure, their might be a few out there, but based on all the threads we have on this, most PvE people don't want a PvP justice system.
That's not really an argument, as there is no reliable way of telling how many will be in/out.. But the fact is that tons of players feel that the Justice System is lacking.. This might be a step in the right direction for those players0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@AndyTGD
I am not sure i understand the "how does this play" part of the equation.
Assuming the items are "scattered across tamriel" how do the enforcers find thieves who have stolen just those special trinkets except by camping on either the spawn locations of the items (nearby hoping they dont get spotted by some newbie trying this) or camping the thieves dens hoping for one to go there to do a turn-in?
if your idea is the enforcers do get involved by camping out those sites, do you really thing PVP players would be interested enough in significant numbers to spend a lot of time sitting around outside of dens (hoping this happens to be the one den among many in tamriel the thief decides to go to and that they have chosen the one out of two entrances to this den) or camping on a given spawn site (out of all those across tamriel) hoping this one will be the one a thief tries to loot?
I get that its not uncommon in PVP for some folks to camp out in stealth on busy location chokepoints for ambushing... but this seems like an awful lot of sitting around hoping for a quest to spawn.
No, no, as I say I was thinking more along the lines of these items turning up practically anywhere - not designated spawn sites which would definitely be easy prey for camping types. When an item is lifted or an NPC assassinated, nearby bounty hunters would be notified that something has occurred within a kinda vague radius, giving them somewhere to concentrate on. Basically, this is something that one could do whilst going about your normal business, really. I'm crafting in Daggerfall and then get pinged that a criminal is somewhere nearby, so one tries to hunt them down for a bit of sport. I'm not thinking of it as a huge, all-encompassing system of anything; but more of an addition to the existing system.
Ok so its more efficient then, for the enforcers.
I run around doing my stuff, get a ping, decide i am close enough and then go camp thre refuge knowing a thief has only 10m to get there or no reward. its 50/50 at that point whether i chose the right entrance, especially if the disable wayshrine is in effect mentioned above gets put in. but then the thief can always try using invis potion at the moment they get close to the entrance.
Course, it could be fun to just grab these mcguffins and go run for a delve or farm the wilds... just to think fuzzy thoughts of PVPers rushing to the refuge cuz of my ping and never intending to go there, just costing them playtime.
But as someone else pointed out, a tandem pair seems to be able to farm this new level of reward fairly easily, so the rewards-v-time cant be much better than routine thievery, right?
As an aisde, i do not normally like "play-in" to pvp and as someone who is visually impaired and often has trouble reading things, even more so. So in the nod to making it not only voluntary but safe, any issues with adding a setting where if checked one would not be able to open the PVP mcguffins at all just like with dueling i can choose to auto-decline or with attack innocents i can set a safety on?
Edited by STEVIL on October 10, 2016 2:00PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
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"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Taternater✭✭✭Here is the thing with an optional system, if enough people are going to opt out, then what good is it to use resources and time to develop something that most people will not use?
I can't think of anyone, unless they are a dedicated PvP player, who would opt into a system of any kind that allows a PvP response to PvE activities if they have a way to opt out. Sure, their might be a few out there, but based on all the threads we have on this, most PvE people don't want a PvP justice system.
Are you by any chance named after a character from Nintendo Power Magazine?0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭...
Not sure if something like this has been proposed before, but here goes:
...
The PvP Justice System Concept, with opt out.
0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭White wabbit wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »XDragonDoomX wrote: »vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »Stop trying to stop people from farming their daily easy gold. It upsets them.
As opposed to farming easy targets ?
I would agree with you but even when a proposal is put forward where people would knowingly accept pvp and it would in no way affect players who didnt want to pvp, in come all the replies about ganking and exploits.
This is simply a case of people who dont like pvp dont want it in their areas. There is no reason other then We dont like pvp. So they make up ones. Oh gankers, oh pvp forced on me! Even when people come uo ways to avoid these.
These people should just come out and say I dont want pvp in my area, nothing you can say will change that. Atleast then we know where they stand. But they would rather just troll.
Mind you that some of these reasons are perfectly legitimate.. Also notice that only 1 person has used ganking as an excuse in this thread, so calm down on the offensive And when it comes to trolling, no side in this discussion can point fingers
Ahh calm down the offensive?XDragonDoomX wrote: »No.
If I want pvp, I go to Cyrodiil. I don't want to be railroaded into PvP - The Thieves Guild has daily quests, not even the scouting quests in Cyro force you into PvP if you accept one.AzraelKrieg wrote: »Forcing PvP in PvE again. The enforcers would camp out at refuge doors and accost the people with bounties.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and dieDoctordarkspawn wrote: »This still tells people who paid money for thieves guild outright that playing them is PVP.
No.White wabbit wrote: »God won't the justice system thing just go and die
Because some people will continue to advocate for gank fodder no matter how dead and decaying the horse gets.
Some of those posted without even reading the idea. I am apparently not the only one who needs to calm down the offensive.
Read so many threads ideas on this that it now has got boring , it seems to me that the many don't want this yet people keep trying to flog a dead horse
It seems to me that some people are so painfully closed-minded that they don't even bother interacting with folks on the other side and instead attempt to dismiss them with a pithy and generally irrelevant "flogging a dead horse" comment. Its kinda fun to bounce ideas off one another, heck its not like ZOS is going to jump into this thread and go "Yes! We're going to do this!". I just don't get why folks are so afraid of a little playful theorising. There's far too much emotion on this topic, its not like I'm suggesting burning someone's national flag or something.
Been some many threads with ideas thrown around that it just seems that a lot are just redressed ideas and I just don't think there would be enough people that would participate to warrant the resources needed to impermanent this when there are far better things that need addressing0 -
AndyTGD✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
Again, there is no 'masqurading as PvE'. Under my proposal, one is notified of the risks and the PvP nature of taking the special item. No one has to do it, unless you have such crippling OCD that you can't bare not to pilfer the item "I simply must pick up that item!! I mussssst!!"
You enter into it knowing the risks and because you want to have fun evading other players, getting one over on them. Consequently, you are rewarded by a thrilling hunt, followed by a little financial incentive. You don't have to involve yourself with this aspect at all if you hate it, in the same way that you don't have to go for Emperor if you don't want to. And the people who do, can determine whether their specs are up to doing something like this, meaning they are likely to actually be PvP players who want a bit of PvP as they go about their PvE questing fun.
Again, not as clever as you think you are. Veteran players are going to jump through the hoops. But the players that your glorious defenders of justice are going to target? Those who cant actually defend themselves and just happen to be lacking knowledge of the game and this mechanic. And since its an MMO youll always have a newb to pounce on and teach them a valuable lesson in justice.
Think you can drop the snide remarks about my alleged self-image, for a second? Is it possible for you to act like a civil human being? Again, there are plentiful warnings and if you can't read them, well that's unfortunate. No more unfortunate than going into Cyrodiil poorly equipped and getting lept on by a ganking nightblade. But lets be honest, that's kinda unlikely to happen. If I read that lifting a high-value item will attract other players to hunt me, I'm likely to really think about that and weigh up my chances. Ironically, it is you treat the average player like a moron.Edited by AndyTGD on October 10, 2016 2:03PM1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dueling brings enough open world PvP into the game. If you want any more forms of PvP can it please be reserved for existing or new, purpose-designed, PvP areas. Stop trying to impose PvP elements onto PvE content, regardless of whether it meets your definition of voluntary.
This dead horse really does need to be buried once and for all. PvPers have got dueling now, and they're soon getting battlegrounds/arenas. Just accept that and move on.
The "accept it" argument never gets old.0 -
AmberLaTerra✭✭✭✭Nope another dead horse thread.
Let's face it in reality even with random spawn points for these loots and assassination targets there will be enforcers will still just camp the thieves dens waiting for people to come try to turn things in.
This would also tilt the pandora's box lid just enough to have posts about expanding it into all justice content be happening more often. It is one of those "Now we have our foot in the door" situations.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
Cp 365 Khajiit Stam Blade EP
For the glory of the Pact0 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here's a suggestion to stop everybody wasting time on these thread regardless which side of the fence they sit ! Ask Zos if at any point they can see s justice system being impermanented into the game as if the have no intention then theirs no point trying to get it , because the last I knew it wasn't going to happen0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭...
Not sure if something like this has been proposed before, but here goes:
...
The PvP Justice System Concept, with opt out.
@Dubhliam, If the data on your first page is updated, then @AndyTGD has the better system.. Yours seems to still suggest people being locked as thieves for 20 hours0 -
Taternater✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
Again, there is no 'masqurading as PvE'. Under my proposal, one is notified of the risks and the PvP nature of taking the special item. No one has to do it, unless you have such crippling OCD that you can't bare not to pilfer the item "I simply must pick up that item!! I mussssst!!"
You enter into it knowing the risks and because you want to have fun evading other players, getting one over on them. Consequently, you are rewarded by a thrilling hunt, followed by a little financial incentive. You don't have to involve yourself with this aspect at all if you hate it, in the same way that you don't have to go for Emperor if you don't want to. And the people who do, can determine whether their specs are up to doing something like this, meaning they are likely to actually be PvP players who want a bit of PvP as they go about their PvE questing fun.
Again, not as clever as you think you are. Veteran players are going to jump through the hoops. But the players that your glorious defenders of justice are going to target? Those who cant actually defend themselves and just happen to be lacking knowledge of the game and this mechanic. And since its an MMO youll always have a newb to pounce on and teach them a valuable lesson in justice.
When I was a newb who didn't have knowledge of game mechanics yet I died a lot. And you know what happened? I appeared at a nearby wayshrine and continued with my business usually not doing the same thing again. Your character does come back to life with only a repair bill in this game.0 -
AndyTGD✭✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Here's a suggestion to stop everybody wasting time on these thread regardless which side of the fence they sit ! Ask Zos if at any point they can see s justice system being impermanented into the game as if the have no intention then theirs no point trying to get it , because the last I knew it wasn't going to happen
Wow, I guess we'd better just discuss topics you want to discuss then. I mean, there's plenty of things which would be cool to have in this game and, however unlikely they are to be included, its a nice idea to have a mature discussion like grown-ups about them and bat ideas back and forth. The fact that there's so many of these threads (apparently so many that we can start ignoring them without reading the content) would seem to say something about the popularity of an idea like this.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
Again, there is no 'masqurading as PvE'. Under my proposal, one is notified of the risks and the PvP nature of taking the special item. No one has to do it, unless you have such crippling OCD that you can't bare not to pilfer the item "I simply must pick up that item!! I mussssst!!"
You enter into it knowing the risks and because you want to have fun evading other players, getting one over on them. Consequently, you are rewarded by a thrilling hunt, followed by a little financial incentive. You don't have to involve yourself with this aspect at all if you hate it, in the same way that you don't have to go for Emperor if you don't want to. And the people who do, can determine whether their specs are up to doing something like this, meaning they are likely to actually be PvP players who want a bit of PvP as they go about their PvE questing fun.
Again, not as clever as you think you are. Veteran players are going to jump through the hoops. But the players that your glorious defenders of justice are going to target? Those who cant actually defend themselves and just happen to be lacking knowledge of the game and this mechanic. And since its an MMO youll always have a newb to pounce on and teach them a valuable lesson in justice.
Think you can drop the snide remarks about my alleged self-image, for a second? Is it possible for you to act like a civil human being? Again, there are plentiful warnings and if you can't read them, well that's unfortunate. No more unfortunate than going into Cyrodiil poorly equipped and getting lept on by a ganking nightblade. But lets be honest, that's kinda unlikely to happen. If I read that lifting a high-value item will attract other players to hunt me, I'm likely to really think about that and weigh up my chances. Ironically, it is you treat the average player like a moron.
No. I cant. Because this is just another thinly veiled attempt to impose things on a playerbase that may not have a deep understanding of what theyre walking into. All so a subsection of the playerbase can capitalize on it. We all know the Bounty Hunters wont target anyone that looks as if they can hold their own. We all know that anyone with any experience with the system will exploit it while those running with tabards will target anyone obviously not able to hold their own and not gaming the system.
Youre not immediately thrown to the wolves in Cyrodiil. But instead dropped in a safe buffer zone before getting to participate in the PvP. To say its the same thing is just laughable. As if porting into Cyrodiil instantly runs the risk of being ganked by a nightblade.
Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax1 -
White wabbit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭White wabbit wrote: »Here's a suggestion to stop everybody wasting time on these thread regardless which side of the fence they sit ! Ask Zos if at any point they can see s justice system being impermanented into the game as if the have no intention then theirs no point trying to get it , because the last I knew it wasn't going to happen
Wow, I guess we'd better just discuss topics you want to discuss then. I mean, there's plenty of things which would be cool to have in this game and, however unlikely they are to be included, its a nice idea to have a mature discussion like grown-ups about them and bat ideas back and forth. The fact that there's so many of these threads (apparently so many that we can start ignoring them without reading the content) would seem to say something about the popularity of an idea like this.
Discuss it to your hearts content still might not take away that this probably might never happen and seems to me that your the one throwing there toys out of the pram because I don't share your point of view0 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »We all know the Bounty Hunters wont target anyone that looks as if they can hold their own.
But if said person can not hold his own in a fight, why would he sign up?
People can't be protected 100%.. This suggestion is about as safe as it comes.. If you can't read/understand what the game tells you, there's nothing that's safe for you
Edited by Daemons_Bane on October 10, 2016 2:20PM0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
I'm not sure I see it the same way.. The previously suggested systems where a bounty could auto-enable PvP justice was indeed bad.. But here you grab a specific item and get an information prompt, telling you that this will be PvP if you continue.. To me, that equals going into Cyrodill.. If you say yes (like walking into Cyrodill), you say yes to PvP.. Then you should know what you sign up for.. You can freely walk away.. But if you go on, you have freely signed up for the whole experience
That's fine, in PvP zones. However, do most PvEers want such prompts occurring all over the place in the open world zones that are intended to be "safe areas" in the words of ZOS? As a PvEer I want to be able to steal stuff in PvE areas without wondering whether I'm going to get a PvP prompt or not, and without being denied access to the top tier of PvE content because I don't want to PvP. Why, in a PvE area, should the high-value proceeds from thieving only be available to PvPers?
If the proposal is to add a new tier to the PvE Justice System that introduces PvP to it, then let that be fully voluntary so that those who want to run that content as PvE can do so and those who want to run it as a sort of compromise dueling/Justice exercise in PvP can do so. That way it can certainly offer a new twist on dueling for those who want it, and can also bring an element of PvP into the Justice System without anyone being forced to choose between accepting PvP or avoiding the special thieving loot. All it needs is a simple toggle to enable/disable the system with the toggle incapable of being switched for a fixed time period after a high-value item has been taken.1 -
AndyTGD✭✭✭AmberLaTerra wrote: »Nope another dead horse thread.
Let's face it in reality even with random spawn points for these loots and assassination targets there will be enforcers will still just camp the thieves dens waiting for people to come try to turn things in.
This would also tilt the pandora's box lid just enough to have posts about expanding it into all justice content be happening more often. It is one of those "Now we have our foot in the door" situations.
If you're crafty enough to make it back to the outlaw's refuge unscathed, then one can attempt it, sure. There could well be someone prowling about there, so caution is required. But since you have to just survive for 10 minutes to win, that will probably encourage enforcers to hunt down criminals, rather than mere camping. If you can stick the heat for 10 minutes you effectively beat the enforcers. How is that unfair for the thief or anything approaching ganking?0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taternater wrote: »Here is the thing with an optional system, if enough people are going to opt out, then what good is it to use resources and time to develop something that most people will not use?
I can't think of anyone, unless they are a dedicated PvP player, who would opt into a system of any kind that allows a PvP response to PvE activities if they have a way to opt out. Sure, their might be a few out there, but based on all the threads we have on this, most PvE people don't want a PvP justice system.
Are you by any chance named after a character from Nintendo Power Magazine?
Nestor, tamer of horses, is in the Iliad... you know, written by Homer over two and a half thousand years ago!
Kids of today... 1 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Daemons_Bane wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Theres always someone that thinks theyre smarter than everyone else and has come up with some brilliant solution to the PvP Justice System problem. Or think everyone else is idiots and wont notice the blatantly flawed and exploitative nature of the solution.
Justice System PvP will not be a thing as long as it backs PvEers into a corner and removes their autonomy.
That's the thing though With this proposal, you enter it voluntarily.. No back to the wall
Volunteer for content that is masqurading as PvE while being a Gank-Fest. The only people who will benefit from this or any other PvP Justice System will be the griefers.
I'm not sure I see it the same way.. The previously suggested systems where a bounty could auto-enable PvP justice was indeed bad.. But here you grab a specific item and get an information prompt, telling you that this will be PvP if you continue.. To me, that equals going into Cyrodill.. If you say yes (like walking into Cyrodill), you say yes to PvP.. Then you should know what you sign up for.. You can freely walk away.. But if you go on, you have freely signed up for the whole experience
That's fine, in PvP zones. However, do most PvEers want such prompts occurring all over the place in the open world zones that are intended to be "safe areas" in the words of ZOS? As a PvEer I want to be able to steal stuff in PvE areas without wondering whether I'm going to get a PvP prompt or not, and without being denied access to the top tier of PvE content because I don't want to PvP. Why, in a PvE area, should the high-value proceeds from thieving only be available to PvPers?
If the proposal is to add a new tier to the PvE Justice System that introduces PvP to it, then let that be fully voluntary so that those who want to run that content as PvE can do so and those who want to run it as a sort of compromise dueling/Justice exercise in PvP can do so. That way it can certainly offer a new twist on dueling for those who want it, and can also bring an element of PvP into the Justice System without anyone being forced to choose between accepting PvP or avoiding the special thieving loot. All it needs is a simple toggle to enable/disable the system with the toggle incapable of being switched for a fixed time period after a high-value item has been taken.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he has actually mentioned anything about this item having value? I think it's meant as the kick off for the PvP justice, enabling the system.. The way I read it, it's kind of a second system, which ensures that the system we have now , will not be tampered with at all.. I think his suggestions will just add a few random items that we can pick up to activate this secondary systemEdited by Daemons_Bane on October 10, 2016 2:23PM0